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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / January 2007I want a big truck! Tundra vs Silverado
Paraphrasing Robocop: "I want a truck. I want a big truck. I want a big truck with 30 MPG!" (Remember the SUX 6000 from that movie?) My truck needs are different from the average truck owner, I guess. I want to put 4-5 people, camping equipment, whitewater rafts, oars, coolers, etc. into one truck (no trailer due to 55mph speed limit in California) and drive from San Jose to Idaho several times a year. I'm tired of trucks that get 14 MPG. It's cheaper to fly to Idaho when gas is $3 a gallon, although airlines don't take my raft. ;-) Why can't Toyota make a big truck with better gas mileage? The Tundra is a disappointment. Despite its .36 coefficient of drag, the Tundra has worse fuel economy, 20 versus 21 highway, than the Chevy Silverado, with .43 coefficient of drag. WTF is Toyota doing with fuel management in that engine, or the transmission? I don't need a heavy truck, I don't need huge weight capacity, it doesn't have to allow me to sit inside with a 10 gallon cowboy hat. I just want fuel economy better than 21 MPG, and a long bed. > Paraphrasing Robocop: > "I want a truck. I want a big truck. I want a big truck with 30 MPG!" [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > doesn't have to allow me to sit inside with a 10 gallon cowboy hat. > I just want fuel economy better than 21 MPG, and a long bed. You want a table saw that makes no noise, in other words. Large pickups are intended for people who make money with their vehicles (carpenters, masons, landscapers), so the expenses are a normal part of running a business. If you want one, but it doesn't give you back money, then you want the wrong vehicle. Also might be that the Silverado mileage might be off a bit? You are NOT , in any vehicle I've every owned anyway, going to get the current EPA ratings. In my Highlander from Redding to Sacramento and back, I averaged a bit over 20mpg (EPA 18/22) (its an 02). When going to Idaho, I consistently get 22+ with Oregon and NW gasolines. As you go several times/year, why don't you have a equipment in both places and get real fuel efficient vehicle for the trip? Ron > Paraphrasing Robocop: > "I want a truck. I want a big truck. I want a big truck with 30 MPG!" [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > doesn't have to allow me to sit inside with a 10 gallon cowboy hat. > I just want fuel economy better than 21 MPG, and a long bed. I'd get the Tundra simply because GM trucks are absolute junk now. They just don't build them as durable as they used to. > I'd get the Tundra simply because GM trucks are absolute junk now. > They just don't build them as durable as they used to. What is your source for this? As far as I know all vehicles made today last longer than older generations on average. At the very least they don't require as much maintenance and easily last over 100,000 miles. *snip* >> Why can't Toyota make a big truck with better gas mileage? The Tundra >> is a disappointment. Despite its .36 coefficient of drag, the Tundra [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I'd get the Tundra simply because GM trucks are absolute junk now. They > just don't build them as durable as they used to. Wow, really? Hubby and I always thought GM/Ford made pretty good trucks, and that Toyota hasn't really gotten the hang of it yet. When did it change? Natalie > Paraphrasing Robocop: > "I want a truck. I want a big truck. I want a big truck with 30 MPG!" [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > doesn't have to allow me to sit inside with a 10 gallon cowboy hat. > I just want fuel economy better than 21 MPG, and a long bed. The 2WD Silverado with the 4.3 liter V-6 gets 17/21 mpg, with 195 HP @4600 RPM and 260 pound-ft torque @ 2800 RPM. The 5.3 liter iron block V-8 gets 16/22 MPG, with 315 HP @ 5200 RPM and 338 pound-ft torque @ 4400 RPM. The Tundra with 5.7 liter V-8 gets 18/20 MPG with 381 HP @ 5600 RPM and 401 pound-ft torque at 3600 RPM. That is a pretty big difference in horsepower and torque. My guess is that the 2 trucks will get similar fuel economy. The Tundra also has a 6 speed transmission vs. the 4 speed in the Silverado. If EPA highway MPG is important to you, the Silverado's is higher than the Tundra, although the Tundra's EPA city MPG is better than the Tundra's. You might also want to check out the Tacoma, with 21/27 MPG if the Double Cab's smallish bed is large enough for your needs.  SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > The 2WD Silverado with the 4.3 liter V-6 gets 17/21 mpg, with 195 HP @4600 > RPM and 260 pound-ft torque @ 2800 RPM. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > You might also want to check out the Tacoma, with 21/27 MPG if the Double > Cab's smallish bed is large enough for your needs. I think the solution is for your truck manufacturers to look at direct injection turbo diesel technology; for the equivalent torque (not HP) you would typically get a diesel engine to give well over 30MPG. As top speed is not all that important (as I understand your highways are restricted to 60MPH?) then most diesel cars/truck/vans top speed of a little over 100Mph shouldn't be a big problem. All apart from the macho aspect of having a car/truck with a massive V8 :-) Chris "Chris Dugan" ... >> The 2WD Silverado with the 4.3 liter V-6 gets 17/21 mpg, with 195 HP >> @4600 [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > horsepower >> and torque. Hi! I've never seen you post before, but you really seem to know your stuff. Did you used to have a different nick? If you're new, welcome to the nuthouse. Natalie > I think the solution is for your truck manufacturers to look at direct > injection turbo diesel technology; for the equivalent torque (not HP) you [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > over 100Mph shouldn't be a big problem. All apart from the macho aspect of > having a car/truck with a massive V8 :-) There are some excellent diesel engines available for full size trucks, the Dodge (Cummins) being the best, and they do offer good fuel economy. However diesel engines are a very expensive option, and diesel fuel costs quite a bit more in California than gasoline, so I would never save money over the period of ownership. Also, diesel is very polluting (particulate matter) and noisy. >You might also want to check out the Tacoma, with 21/27 MPG if the Double >Cab's smallish bed is large enough for your needs. There is no Tacoma double cab that gets 21/27 MPG. The DC is V6 only, rated @ 19/22. To the OP: Why not just rent a full size pickup or SUV for your trips? The local Enterprise lots here in CT rent F150 4x4 quad cabs, often with unlimited mileage. The money you save on gas the rest of the year will probably cover the rental. > The 2WD Silverado with the 4.3 liter V-6 gets 17/21 mpg, with 195 HP @4600 > RPM and 260 pound-ft torque @ 2800 RPM. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > You might also want to check out the Tacoma, with 21/27 MPG if the Double > Cab's smallish bed is large enough for your needs. Good advice, Ray O. A friend has a Tacoma 2WD access cab, and we got 24 MPG on a trip at high speeds (70 mph) and with it fully loaded. Not bad. However the back seat is very uncomfortable for one, unbearable for two. The double cab Tacoma is available with "long" bed, just over 6'. I did not know that. The pictures always show it with a short bed. That one gets 19/22 EPA, or 18/21 with 4WD. > Paraphrasing Robocop: > "I want a truck. I want a big truck. I want a big truck with 30 MPG!" > (Remember the SUX 6000 from that movie?) *snip* But you don't want anyone to think you're compensating, do you? ;-) I saw a guy in Phoenix with one of those 6-wheeled monstrosities; the plate said, "NTBGENF" (Not big enough) Oh his poor significant other. Yeah, yeah - he probably means he'd like an even bigger truck, but that plate can be taken two ways. Natalie, about to be a fwap-ee... >> Paraphrasing Robocop: >> "I want a truck. I want a big truck. I want a big truck with 30 MPG!" [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Natalie, about to be a fwap-ee... My son spotted a mongo-pickup (800 lbs of useless chrome accessories) with a large plastic scrotum as part of the rear license plate frame. "JoeSpareBedroom" ... > "Wickeddoll®" ... >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > My son spotted a mongo-pickup (800 lbs of useless chrome accessories) with > a large plastic scrotum as part of the rear license plate frame. They have those here in NC all over the place! Gawd, that's pathetic. They call them "nut sacks" Natalie > "JoeSpareBedroom" ... >> "Wickeddoll®" ... [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Natalie Perhaps they should come with a warning label: "Caution! Objects hanging off the trailer hitch are much, MUCH larger than objects hanging off the driver!" There was an '00 Rav4 for sale up in this area shown in an ad on CarSoup. It had a front-end push/bush bar combo that probably weighed about as much as the engine inside. It really made the Rav4 look deformed. That one should have had a warning label that said: "Caution! Driver no longer in touch with reality!" SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com "DH" ... >> "JoeSpareBedroom" ... >>> "Wickeddoll®" ... [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > "Caution! Objects hanging off the trailer hitch are much, MUCH larger > than objects hanging off the driver!" ROFLMAO! They probably would still sell...these aren't brain trusts, here. > There was an '00 Rav4 for sale up in this area shown in an ad on CarSoup. > It had a front-end push/bush bar combo that probably weighed about as much > as the engine inside. It really made the Rav4 look deformed. That one > should have had a warning label that said: > > "Caution! Driver no longer in touch with reality!" LOL at the very least. When I see stupid things like that, I yell (they can't hear me) what Liz Winstead used to say, "Sorry about your penis!" Natalie <snipped> >> They have those here in NC all over the place! Gawd, that's pathetic. >>> They call them "nut sacks" [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Natalie The most common last words from a redneck... "Hey, y'all watch this..." SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >The most common last words from a redneck... > >"Hey, y'all watch this..." Wrong! It's "Here, Hold my beer and watch this!..." Subtle yet vital difference. ;-) --<< Bruce >>-- >>The most common last words from a redneck... >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > --<< Bruce >>-- NO redneck worth his salt would trust anyone else with his beer.... SignatureScott in Florida "Scott in Florida" , Bruce L. Bergman wrote: >>>The most common last words from a redneck... >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > NO redneck worth his salt would trust anyone else with his beer.... Thanks, bubba Natalie Buy (or rent) a cargo trailer and a V6 Camry, WBMA ;) mike > Paraphrasing Robocop: > "I want a truck. I want a big truck. I want a big truck with 30 MPG!" > The Tundra > is a disappointment. Despite its .36 coefficient of drag, the Tundra [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I don't need a heavy truck, > I just want fuel economy better than 21 MPG, and a long bed. > Buy (or rent) a cargo trailer and a V6 Camry, WBMA ;) WMBA = World Moustache and Beard Association ? WMBA = Winnepeg Minor Basketball Association ? WMBA = Westchester Mountain Bike Affiliation ? Again im telling you all...GM's back in this game and its serious. http://www.gmc.com/yukonhybrid/index.jsp ill be getting one of these regardless if its 50 to 60k. > Paraphrasing Robocop: > "I want a truck. I want a big truck. I want a big truck with 30 MPG!" [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > doesn't have to allow me to sit inside with a 10 gallon cowboy hat. > I just want fuel economy better than 21 MPG, and a long bed. > Again im telling you all...GM's back in this game and its serious. > http://www.gmc.com/yukonhybrid/index.jsp ill be getting one of these > regardless if its 50 to 60k. Looks great. Your use of present tense implies it is in showrooms now. Can I buy one TODAY? >> Paraphrasing Robocop: >> "I want a truck. I want a big truck. I want a big truck with 30 MPG!" [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> doesn't have to allow me to sit inside with a 10 gallon cowboy hat. >> I just want fuel economy better than 21 MPG, and a long bed. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > Again im telling you all...GM's back in this game and its serious. > http://www.gmc.com/yukonhybrid/index.jsp ill be getting one of these > regardless if its 50 to 60k. The only GMs/Fords I avoid are the "economy" cars. They are *no* bargain. But if I wanted a big, gas-guzzling truck, I'd go domestic. Natalie >> Paraphrasing Robocop: >> "I want a truck. I want a big truck. I want a big truck with 30 MPG!" [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> doesn't have to allow me to sit inside with a 10 gallon cowboy hat. >> I just want fuel economy better than 21 MPG, and a long bed. > The only GMs/Fords I avoid are the "economy" cars. They are *no* bargain. > But if I wanted a big, gas-guzzling truck, I'd go domestic. My folks' next door neighbour has a 2003 Grand Am V6 that was recently infected with the notorious intake manifold gasket problem which GM still refuses to acknowledge. He was lucky that he had an extended warranty, or it would have been outrageously expensive to fix. This has apparently been the latest in a long line of problems they have had with this car. So GM's mid-sized cars are no better than their economy cars. The same neighbour also bought a new Silverado a few years ago, and it was plagued with problems left and right; he got rid of it after only 2 years. I had read a few years ago in various publications and on websites that the reliability of GM's trucks over the past 10 or so years has been only average at best, and nowhere near their dependability levels of years ago. >> The only GMs/Fords I avoid are the "economy" cars. They are *no* >> bargain. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > GM's > mid-sized cars are no better than their economy cars. Dayum - that used to be their bread and butter. I can remember seeing GMs everywhere in the late 60s-early 80s. > The same neighbour also bought a new Silverado a few years ago, and it was > plagued with problems left and right; he got rid of it after only 2 years. > I had read a few years ago in various publications and on websites that > the > reliability of GM's trucks over the past 10 or so years has been only > average at best, and nowhere near their dependability levels of years ago. So their trucks suck too? No wonder they've gone down the tubes. Here are some funny toons: http://cagle.com/working/070126/sheneman00.gif http://cagle.com/working/070126/sherffius21.jpg Natalie, who loves cagle.com! Stay away from GM V6's period. As well as toyota V6's they are nothing but problems. > > The only GMs/Fords I avoid are the "economy" cars. They are *no* bargain. > > But if I wanted a big, gas-guzzling truck, I'd go domestic.My folks' next door neighbour has a 2003 Grand Am V6 that was recently [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > reliability of GM's trucks over the past 10 or so years has been only > average at best, and nowhere near their dependability levels of years ago. > Stay away from GM V6's period. As well as toyota V6's they are > nothing but problems. What problems are Toyota V6's known for? And DO NOT say sludge. Stay away from GM V6's period. As well as toyota V6's they are nothing but problems. Same question as High Tech Misfit's: If you have a secret source of problem info for Toyota V-6 motors, I'd like to know more. > Paraphrasing Robocop: > "I want a truck. I want a big truck. I want a big truck with 30 MPG!" [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > with .43 coefficient of drag. WTF is Toyota doing with fuel management > in that engine, or the transmission? I pulled up the tsb's on a friends 2004 Chev Tahoe. There must be 50+ of them. I don't think I would consider the Chev trucks .50,000 miles needs a rear U joint. Ron |
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