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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / February 2007Car *snerks*
http://cagle.com/working/070118/crowson.jpg http://cagle.com/working/070130/varvel.jpg http://cagle.com/working/070131/keefe.gif http://cagle.com/working/070130/rogers.gif :-D Natalie  Signature"Wicked little doll, you are not human; wicked little doll, you have no soul." (David Byrne, 1997) > http://cagle.com/working/070118/crowson.jpg > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > :-D I bet lots of parents would like that "Are we there yet?" shield. ;-) Cathy > Natalie >> http://cagle.com/working/070118/crowson.jpg >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Cathy That would work for backseat drivers too Natalie > http://cagle.com/working/070118/crowson.jpg > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > http://cagle.com/working/070130/rogers.gif Here goes something for you to think about - One of your little cartoon highlights the notion that Ford's problems are related to building gas sucking truck and SUVs. This may be true. But, now what has Toyota been doing for the last decade? How many all new trucks and SUVs has Toyota introduced in the last 5 years? How many all new cars? Are Toyota trucks getting smaller and more fuel efficient or larger and less fuel efficient? Hasn't Toyota generally upsized their car lineup? The new Camry is larger, has larger engine options, and worse gas mileage than ever before. The new Tundra is the biggest light truck Toyota has ever sold. So why is it that Ford is lambasted for building large trucks and SUVs, and nobody mentions that Toyota is moving in that direction as hard as it can? Ed >> http://cagle.com/working/070118/crowson.jpg >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Ed Because unlike Ford/GM, Toyota isn't putting all its eggs in one overstuffed basket. Toyota isn't counting on just the big vehicles - I don't think it ever has. You keep putting out shitty economy cars, eventually people will figure out a. I can get a better car for less money and b. Said car gets waaaayyyyy better mileage. Obviously the American public largely agrees, or you wouldn't see cartoons like that. The biggest problem for GM/Ford is that they counted on the gas-powered arrogance of the American consumer. Too bad the "little guys" are taking the fall for corporate-level eff-ups. I'm not "lambasting" anyone - their own actions/inactions are what did them in. You and I have been down this road before - you know you'll never convince me that Toyotas are not better (economy class, anyway), so I'm telling you now, I'm not getting into it again. We'll have to agree to disagree. I say Toyota economy cars (not trucks, cuz I've never owned one), are still way better than the craptacular stuff that comes from Detroit. But if I wanted a gas-guzzler/van/truck/big luxury vehicle, I'd go domestic without question. No sarcasm there at all. Natalie > Because unlike Ford/GM, Toyota isn't putting all its eggs in one > overstuffed basket. Ford clearly knows how to build small cars. They sell lots of small cars in Europe, Asia, and South America. They even sell the kA in Mexico. I've never understood why they don't sell those cars here. The Fiesta, kA, and Modeo are all well regarded in Europe. > Toyota isn't counting on just the big vehicles - I don't think it ever > has. You keep putting out shitty economy cars, eventually people will > figure out a. I can get a better car for less money and b. Said car gets > waaaayyyyy better mileage. Obviously the American public largely agrees, > or you wouldn't see cartoons like that. A better car for less money? I think that is open to interpretation. A Corolla costs more than a Focus with similar equipment (stripped Corolla $13442, vs. stripped Focus $11,567 without negotiating - and the Focus has more standard equipment). Even CR recommends the Focus. The Corolla does get better gas mileage (36 combined for the Corolla vs. 31) but the Focus is somewhat larger (94 cu ft interior vs. 89 cu ft interior / 15 cu ft luggage vs. 14 cu ft luggage). The Focus also has a somewhat better injury loss rating (150 vs. 159 for the Corolla). Most road testers rate the Focus as having far better driving qualities. > The biggest problem for GM/Ford is that they counted on the gas-powered > arrogance of the American consumer. Too bad the "little guys" are taking > the fall for corporate-level eff-ups. But this was my point, Toyota has been following the same strategy as Ford. They haven't significantly updated the Corolla in a decade. The Scion models are absently older models form other markets dusted off and sold in the US. The Yaris is little more than a reskinned Echo. > I'm not "lambasting" anyone - their own actions/inactions are what did > them in. I did not say you in particularly were lambasting Ford. It is the press in general. And my point was that Toyota is duplicating the strategy that supposedly got Ford into trouble. > You and I have been down this road before - you know you'll never convince > me that Toyotas are not better (economy class, anyway), so I'm telling you > now, I'm not getting into it again. No matter what the facts, some people continue to claim that Toyota are far better. People that point out Toyota problems (sludge, large numbers of recalls, mediocre safety records, high prices, etc) are shouted down. You gave me a hard time for just pointing out that Toyotas are slightly above average. > We'll have to agree to disagree. I say Toyota economy cars (not trucks, > cuz I've never owned one), are still way better than the craptacular stuff > that comes from Detroit. And what was the last car you owned that was a domestic product? > But if I wanted a gas-guzzler/van/truck/big luxury vehicle, I'd go > domestic without question. No sarcasm there at all. And that is where the money is. I guarantee that Toyota will make many times as much when they sell a Tundra as when they sell a Corolla. And the difference in cost between a Lexus ES350 and a Camry is almost pure profit. If you were running Ford, what would you do - spend your time and money building a Corolla clone, or making sure you hold on to your truck market share? I just read an article by a noted automotive writer. He actually compliment Ford on its car lineup. He admitted that they were reliable, were good performers, and a good value - BUT - in the next sentence he said they were dull. This the part that sticks in my craw. Nobody builds duller cars than Toyota. All the good things he said about Ford cars are exactly the same good things people are always saying about Toyota. Why say Ford are good but dull, without saying the same thing about Toyota. Ed *snipping rhetoric* I told you I was done discussing this subject with you. We're both immobile on it, so why bother? Never mind. Don't answer that. Natalie >> http://cagle.com/working/070118/crowson.jpg >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > introduced in the last 5 years? How many all new cars? Are Toyota trucks > getting smaller and more fuel efficient or larger and less fuel efficient? Since the Rav4 is one of Toyota's "trucks," then I'd say that they're still fairly small and fuel efficient. Except that the Rav4 isn't small at all on the inside. Remarkably, it has room for a 3rd rows seat. And fuel economy is quite good with the V6 and acceleration is awesome. And the Highlander is hardly "small," true, but in hybrid form offers 31mpg city. That's pretty damned good. How's that Trailblazer do in the city? Props to Ford for the Escape hybrid, though. > Hasn't Toyota generally upsized their car lineup? No. They've balanced the new, larger Camry with new small cars; the Yaris, the Scions. Toyot has three vehicles with 40+mpg fuel economy rating. > The new Camry is larger, has larger engine options, and worse gas mileage > than ever before. No. It's now rated better than ever. And if you consder the new Camry hybrid, it's MUCH better than ever. > The new Tundra is the biggest light truck Toyota has ever sold. So why is > it that Ford is lambasted for building large trucks and SUVs, and nobody > mentions that Toyota is moving in that direction as hard as it can? > > Ed It's a giant conspiracy to talk up Toyota and put Ford and GM out of business. Didn't anyone let you know? By the way, you may recall that Edmunds Inside Line found the Tundra gets better mileage in their testing than the Silverado. So stop whining. There's a reason people aren't buying cars - at profitable prices - from GM and Ford. They've seen Toyotas and Accords and they think GM and Ford cars aren't as nice. Rx for Detroit: build better cars. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>> http://cagle.com/working/070118/crowson.jpg >>> [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > GM and Ford. They've seen Toyotas and Accords and they think GM and Ford > cars aren't as nice. Rx for Detroit: build better cars. You don't think he'll really accept anything we say, do you? That's why I gave up on debating this issue with him. He's firm in his views, and so are we. Natalie I think it was "C. E. White" <cewhite@mindspring.com> who stated: >> http://cagle.com/working/070118/crowson.jpg >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >Ed Good point, Ed. Heck, even the Scion xB is getting larger! Not that I mind that; I've got a rare xB Version One -- in the even more rare Camouflage color . . . . -- A fine is a tax for doing wrong -- a tax is a fine for doing well |
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