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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / February 200794 Corolla Head Gasket Leak?
Gurus: I took my great car, with 108,000 one-owner miles, in for an oil change and have been told it has a head gasket leak. Before I spend the $920 the dealer wants to replace it, I am turning here for advice. A few things about the car. 1. I did see a thimble full of red coolant on the garge floor, under the engine last fall. That was the only time I thought there might be a leak somewhere. The back of the engine, below the coolant bypass hose, shows corrosion. 2. The technician told me the coolant bypass tank was empty when I brought it in. He tried to show me the leak, but I could see no fluid. Apparently, this is a very slow leak, though he started out telling me it was a big leak. 3. He also pointed out that the coolant bypass hose was bulged and suggested that it too should be replaced. $170. ..... Also suggested was a transmission flush. $120. 4. I last had the car in for an inspection about 3,000 miles (5 months) ago. No problems then. 5. The oil is clear. Not milky. The car does not burn oil and has plenty of zip. The technician told me he's worked on Toyotas for 20 years and has never seen a leaky Corolla head gasket before. I would like to (but don't have to) keep the car a couple more years. I would not sell it to someone without either having it fixed, or telling them about the problem. What would you advise that I do at this point? Are these prices in line? It's a good car and I want to take good care of it, but I don't want to throw money at it without knowing that is the best thing to do. Thanks for your thoughts. > Gurus: > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > to throw money at it without knowing that is the best thing to do. > Thanks for your thoughts. I am not sure what you mean by coolant bypass hose, but if it is bulged, replace it. Corolla head gasket problems are not very common. I would get another opinion on the source of the leak.  SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > Gurus: > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > to throw money at it without knowing that is the best thing to do. > Thanks for your thoughts. Be careful. FWIW, my sleazy-mechanic-alarm is going off as I read your post. (We have a 95 Prizm with 226,000 miles) >> Gurus: >> [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > Be careful. FWIW, my sleazy-mechanic-alarm is going off as I read your > post. (We have a 95 Prizm with 226,000 miles) I have a Prizm too with 156,000 on it. No problems thus far. I did have a slight suspicion. Before he even wrote the oil change order, the Asst. Service manager complemented me on my car and stated something like, "I've seen people put over $2000 into these cars to keep them running." That in itself is a harmless comment, and a testimony to the durability of the Corolla. Yet, in what I then was told by the technician just 30 minutes later, it did give me some pause. A suspicious mind could conclude I was being set up. ..... Yet, I don't want to believe that, nor actually do I believe that. Rather, I'm thinking that perhaps the alarm bell was sounded too loudly, hoping that I'd bite on a repair right there and then. Doesn't $920 sound like a lot for a head gasket? I even wonder if the bulged hose could be the entire culprit, especially given the particular location the technician pointed to for the "leak". I could not see any leak, but I did see corrosion. Perhaps the liquid had boiled off. Then too, the coolant overflow reservoir was, I'm told, empty. That would sure point to a leak. Hmmm. I prefer to take a slow, reasoned approach to this, hence this topic. I'm hoping that others who read this will offer their thoughts. I have tried to provide all the important facts, as best I can, so you can give your most reasoned reply. One thing I am going to do today is take the car to another shop to get a second opinion. Should be interesting. > Gurus: > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > to throw money at it without knowing that is the best thing to do. > Thanks for your thoughts. Lots of issues here: - Empty overflow tank: The mechanic shouldn't be the one to tell you it's empty. You should check that, especially now when there may be a problem. Pouring in more antifreeze can be messy, so get a package of big plastic party cups. Put some liquid in one of those, and squeeze the cup a bit to make it pour more accurately. Keep an eye on this situation until you finally decide the who/what/when of this repair. - Hoses: Open the hood of any new vehicle at a car dealership. Squeeze a couple of hoses to see what they feel like. Then, do the same with your car's hoses. They may feel spongy. Remember the difference between new and old. If they're spongy, they're nearing the end of their life and need to be replaced, regardless of what other problems the mechanic thinks he sees. Find a mechanic who says "Well, you *do* need new hoses at some point, no matter what else is wrong". He's right. - In your other message, you said "service manager". That means "salesman". Is this a dealership, or maybe one of those muffler or tire places that does other repairs? I don't like places where you talk to a salesman about car repairs. Ask friends if they have an independent mechanic they've been happy with for a number of years. Final Report! (I hope.) I just returned from an appointment with a well-respected private repair shop, Better Business Bureau approved. The mechanic did a lengthy pressure test. Guess what? NO LEAK AT ALL. ZERO. The initial diagnosis of a leak was done without a pressure test. I won't even get into all the other things recommended by the dealer following my oil change appointment, but the private shop checked every one of them and told me that there was only one, a bulging hose, that they would recommend replacing. Estimated replacement cost = less than $50. The dealer's estimate for the same hose was $170. Something could still, I suppose, be wrong with the head gasket, but it is not something that requires immediate attention. I will pay it some attention though. Most certainly, I will keep a closer eye on my antifreeze level, and the clarity of the engine oil. Morals of the story. 1. Get a second opinion from a quality, independent shop. 2. Be wary of alarmist opinions. Don't ignore them, but take time to gather information before spending hard earned money on dubious "repairs". Thank God for Google groups. > Final Report! (I hope.) > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > gather information before spending hard earned money on dubious > "repairs". Thank God for Google groups. Sometimes, it's good to replace more than one hose, if you're prone to losing service records. Or, keep a good book in the car for when you're waiting for the tow truck. > Final Report! (I hope.) > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > that they would recommend replacing. Estimated replacement cost = less > than $50. The dealer's estimate for the same hose was $170. ~~~~~~~~~ $170 to replace ONE radiator hose ? The service manager must want to get a large Christmas bonus from his dealership. Even $50 is a little on the high side for my money, but when labor goes for $60 or more an hour, I guess it's not too far out of line. > Something could still, I suppose, be wrong with the head gasket, but > it is not something that requires immediate attention. I will pay it [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > gather information before spending hard earned money on dubious > "repairs". Thank God for Google groups. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ One question.... how did the psychic technician figure out that your head gasket was leaking? Perhaps banking on the fact that this would be the most expensive repair possible given the fact of the empty reservoir? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > One question.... how did the psychic technician figure out that your head > gasket was leaking? Perhaps banking on the fact that this would be the > most expensive repair possible given the fact of the empty reservoir? Well, he claimed he saw red fluid running out. When I asked him to show me, we could see none, but he kept saying, "See, right there. I wish you could have seen it when it was up on the rack." My guess is that many people just take the technician's word for it, without even asking to see the problem. Of course, some of these things are difficult to recognize, especially to the untrained eye. Naturally, since a car is a major investment, many are prone to err (expensively so) on the side of caution. I'm just glad that I get a chance to at least keep an eye on it for a while and not have to throw money at it right away. >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> One question.... how did the psychic technician figure out that your head [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > show me, we could see none, but he kept saying, "See, right there. I > wish you could have seen it when it was up on the rack." Why didn't he bring you into the shop when it was up on the rack, so you could see for yourself? Do they have that bullshit sign on the wall about insurance regulations? That's an excuse for two things: - Hiding things from the customer - Not keeping the shop clean & safe, so customers don't slip on oil or trip over debris. My mechanic's shop lets customers come and see what's happening. But, the place is spotless and neat. Most customers don't stand there and watch the whole time, but the 3 mechanics are happy to show things to customers. Their business is based on trust. Joe: I can only guess as to the motivation of those involved. Now that I look back over the entire experience though, I do think I see a "trend", but that is only a guess. I'm just glad to be done with what I chalk up as another learning experience. > Why didn't he bring you into the shop when it was up on the rack, so you > could see for yourself? Do they have that bullshit sign on the wall about [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > whole time, but the 3 mechanics are happy to show things to customers. Their > business is based on trust. > Final Report! (I hope.) > > [...] Thank God for Google groups. I am very pleased to hear of your success (okay, no thanks to me, I admit). But... "Thank God for Google groups" ??? Oh, wow, how the world has changed: "...and there arose a pharoah who knew not Joseph...". This, chum, is what we old-timers call _Usenet_. :-) SignatureAndrew Stephenson Andrew: "Usenet" is soooooooo 90s. ...........Just kidding. How about, "Thank God for folks who are wlling to share their knowledge with complete strangers"? I got a big, big laugh out of your remark. Thanks for chiming in. > In article <1171045692.358527.283...@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com> > t.p.bernha...@sbcglobal.net "t.p.bernha...@sbcglobal.net" writes: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > -- > Andrew Stephenson >Final Report! (I hope.) > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >gather information before spending hard earned money on dubious >"repairs". Thank God for Google groups. I'd like to know the name of the dealer! SignatureScott in Florida |
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