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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / March 2007Oil Pressure
My oil light goes on intermittently. When I start up, it's okay. After driving around for about 15 minutes, it comes on, sometimes steady, sometimes it flickers on and off. It was on while I was at a stop light, so I turned the engine off and back on, and the light went off. I did the same thing in my driveway when I got home and the same thing happened, it went out when I restarted the engine. I have it idleing in my driveway and the light is staying off. I thought I had a short in the sender harness because it was rubbing the belt. I moved it out of the way, and still have the probelm. I wiggled the harness and nothing happens with the light. I just had the oil and filter changed. That didn't help. I would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks. I forgot to mention it's a 99 Camry, 6 cylinder, with 225,000 miles. > My oil light goes on intermittently. When I start up, it's okay. After > driving around for about 15 minutes, it comes on, sometimes steady, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Thanks. There are generally 2 things that make low oil pressure warning lights flicker: 1) Low oil pressure - possible causes of low oil pressure are a blockage (i.e., sludge); bad oil pump; and excessive bearing clearance. Sludge or oil gelling seems to build up if the oil has not been changed for 9,000 or more miles. Check for sludge buildup by removing one of the valve covers. Check oil pressure by removing the oil pressure sender, installing an oil pressure gauge, and measuring oil pressure. 2) Problem with the oil pressure sender and/or sender circuit. If the oil pressure sender is leaking, the low oil pressure light may come on, and a damaged wire could also make the light come on.  SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > My oil light goes on intermittently. When I start up, it's okay. After > driving around for about 15 minutes, it comes on, sometimes steady, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > happened, it went out when I restarted the engine. I have it idleing > in my driveway and the light is staying off. Do you have enough oil? What viscosity? What brand of filter was used? At 225000 miles, you should be using 10W30 or 10W40 sd > <jim_nospam_beas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > sd I would like to replace the oil pressure switch, but i'm not sure which one it is. Chilton's manual doesn't show a picture. I think it's right above the timing marks, with only one wire going to it. If that's it, does someone know an easy way to get it out? Chilton overlooks the difficulty of its location. I just changed the oil. It's 10W30, with a new filter. >> <jim_nospam_beas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > I just changed the oil. It's 10W30, with a new filter. I am not aware of any tricks to remove the oil pressure switch. Just unplug the wire and reach down there with the appropriate tool. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >>> <jim_nospam_beas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > I am not aware of any tricks to remove the oil pressure switch. Just > unplug the wire and reach down there with the appropriate tool. Where the heck is it on a Supra 7M-GE? I've had the sending unit since April but can't find it on the car! On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 03:59:42 GMT, Hachiroku ???? <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote: >> I am not aware of any tricks to remove the oil pressure switch. Just >> unplug the wire and reach down there with the appropriate tool. > >Where the heck is it on a Supra 7M-GE? I've had the sending unit since >April but can't find it on the car! It'll take two people - one person reaches back behind the gauge cluster and tugs on the oil sender wire, and the other person is under the hood looking for the other end of the wire to move... ;-P .. <Barrrrump-Bump!> .. Thank you! Thank you very much! I'll be here all week... .. Seriously, there aren't too many places they can hide it. It has to be on the side of the block along a main oil gallery. Or on the oil filter adapter, or possibly near where the oil pump is - and the oil pump is usually on the bottom end of the distributor shaft. It can be hiding underneath the alternator or the PS Pump, with the wire in the same harness till it branches off in a dark spot - so you get a hand inspection mirror with an extension arm and a good flashlight, and check all the nooks and crannies. If you were a telephone man I'd tell you to pop the cluster and put "flicker tone" trace tone on the sender wire. Then you use an inductive pickup "banana probe" to find the wire heading to the gauge sender - works just like a Geiger counter, the louder it gets the closer you are. Follow the main harness and as the wire branches off you follow it... You have the new gauge sender, chances are they both look the same. --<< Bruce >>-- >>> I am not aware of any tricks to remove the oil pressure switch. Just >>> unplug the wire and reach down there with the appropriate tool. [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > --<< Bruce >>-- http://www.supra.co.nz/87tsrm/Lubrication/lub05.htm and I STILL can't find it! >>>> I am not aware of any tricks to remove the oil pressure switch. Just >>>> unplug the wire and reach down there with the appropriate tool. [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > and I STILL can't find it! From underneath the car, look up above the oil pan, behind the cooling fan. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >>> On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 03:59:42 GMT, Hachiroku ???? <Trueno@AE86.gts> >>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > From underneath the car, look up above the oil pan, behind the cooling > fan. I tried that, but with the car on the ground. I have some 8,000 lb ramps now, and a REAL jack, so I'll have a go when I roll it out of the garage in a few weeks... <snipped> >> From underneath the car, look up above the oil pan, behind the cooling >> fan. > > I tried that, but with the car on the ground. I have some 8,000 lb ramps > now, and a REAL jack, so I'll have a go when I roll it out of the garage > in a few weeks... At least drive one side of the car up onto a curb to provide a little more clearance underneath! SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > <snipped> >>>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > At least drive one side of the car up onto a curb to provide a little more > clearance underneath! That car is LOW!!! It is a real pain to work on, even WITH ramps. Makes it better, though. I had a small problem after we changed the fuel tank last year, and I was able to get the @ss of the car up in the air enough to be able to get up there. With a 'taller' car like the Mazda, I was able to replace the muffer with little problem, it ot so high in the air! Now, I need a creeper. What I'd really like is a "rotisserie"! Lock the car in, and turn it one way or another! Would really come in handy for the Hachiroku! > Now, I need a creeper. What I'd really like is a "rotisserie"! Lock the > car in, and turn it one way or another! Would really come in handy for the > Hachiroku! I have 2 creepers, 1 is a Snap-On that was my dad's and is probably around 50 years old. It has wheel hubs that look like they are mangles but allow for movement in any direction while keeping the deck about an inch off the ground. The deck is wood, and I think the head cushion is leather! I wanted to hang it over the fireplace mantle but Mrs. O put the kibosh on it. Maybe if I clean up the wheels, it will make a nice "recliner" for watching TV ;-) With as many cars as you have, you should invest in a real lift! SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >> Now, I need a creeper. What I'd really like is a "rotisserie"! Lock the >> car in, and turn it one way or another! Would really come in handy for [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > With as many cars as you have, you should invest in a real lift! LOL! Believe me, the thought has crossed my mind...on MANY occasions! > <jim_nospam_beas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > Ray O > (correct punctuation to reply) I finally figured out what I had to do the get the oil pressure switch out. I can get a deep socket wrench on it after I remove the alternator belt and unplug the switch. The problem I am having now is I can figure out how to disconnect the plug. There is no obvious way, and I am guessing Toyota has some special tool to press all the detents so the plug comes free. I'm afraid I am going to break the connector trying to get it off. Can someone tell me what the trick is? (I already broke one connector trying to figure it our, and now the detents don't hold it on any longer.) >> <jim_nospam_beas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > trying to figure it our, and now the detents don't hold it on any > longer.) If you already have the replacement switch, look at the connector. There should be a tab that is perpendicular to the connector body. On the wire harness side, there is a U-shaped locking connector that fits over the tab on the switch. Use an awl, very small screwdriver, or pick to gently lift the locking connector while pulling the harness off. Do not tug on any of the wires, pull by holding the connector body itself. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > <jim_nospam_beas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > Ray O > (correct punctuation to reply) Thanks for your help, Ray. I put a sliver of metal (cut from a razor blade) in where I thought the catch is, but I couldn't get it to work. I may have to turn this over to the dealer repair shop just to get the plug off, and have them do the switch replacement. This switch is just in a place where I can't get to it or see it very well, so, without a proper tool, I think I am going to break the plug. I don't want to end up with a badly seated or loose connector when I'm done. >> <jim_nospam_beas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] > proper tool, I think I am going to break the plug. I don't want to end > up with a badly seated or loose connector when I'm done. Look at another electrical connector under the hood, like for the coolant temperature switch, EGR position sensor, etc. The connectors under the hood all pretty much work the same way. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > <jim_nospam_beas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 90 lines] > Ray O > (correct punctuation to reply) Success! I have removed the connector without damage. I fabricated three shims to insert under the detents of the connector and was able to remove it. Now I see that the oil switch required something other than a hex socket to remove. (The replacement witch that I bought uses a 7/8" deep socket. It looks nearly circular, like another special tool is required to remove it. I'll have to make a trip to the hardware stor to see if there is some tool I can use for this. I won't be surprised if the OEM switch has a left hand thread! On Mar 10, 5:27 pm, jim_nospam_beas...@yahoo.com wrote: > > <jim_nospam_beas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 102 lines] > > I won't be surprised if the OEM switch has a left hand thread! After having goone through all of that, I found a tool tha probably does what I need, WITHOUT removing the plug first! www.redhillsupply.com/AST7801.htm shows a tool kit for this sort of thing. I don't know if it works for a Camry. I wonder where I can get one fast? > On Mar 10, 5:27 pm, jim_nospam_beas...@yahoo.com wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 139 lines] > thing. I don't know if it works for a Camry. I wonder where I can get > one fast? Auto parts store probably sell the correct socket, Sears hardware probably also has it. BTW, you need to seal the threads with lock-tite. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > <jim_nospam_beas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 150 lines] > Ray O > (correct punctuation to reply) Finally, I removed the old switch with a 1-1/16" socket. Unfortuneately, the new one didn't solve the intermittent light, so I must have a pressure problem, after all. I was listening to the engine in the garage when the light was going on and off, and I could hear a slight raspy sound when the light was on. I wonder if that's the oil pump, or something is not getting its oil. The dip stick shows full. <snipped> > Finally, I removed the old switch with a 1-1/16" socket. > Unfortuneately, the new one didn't solve the intermittent light, so I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > on. I wonder if that's the oil pump, or something is not getting its > oil. The dip stick shows full. I think I know what the problem is, but before I announce my guess, I have some questions... What model and model year is the car? Which engine? What is the oil change history? Did the engine ever go over 7,000 miles between oil changes? SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) On Mar 10, 10:12 pm, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote: > <jim_nospam_beas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Ray O > (correct punctuation to reply) The car is a 1996 Camry with 6 cyl engine. Oil changes were irregular, and most close to 5K intervals, but occasionally it went longer. Mileage is 225,000 miles. A lot of daily commuting, 50 to 100 miles per day. That raspy noise I heard when the oil pressure light goes on is not very loud, and it goes away when the light is off. The engine sounds okay when the light is off. > On Mar 10, 10:12 pm, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > very loud, and it goes away when the light is off. The engine sounds > okay when the light is off. I suspect that you have some sludge buildup. You can confirm this by removing a valve cover and looking at the camshaft area. The 1996 Camry is not one of the vehicles covered by Toyota's customer assistance program. Some other things you can try - one of those oil flush treatments before you change your oil next time, or removing the oil pan and see if there is any buildup on the oil pump pickup screen. Something else that may help is using 5W-30 oil. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >>> <jim_nospam_beas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>> [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > any buildup on the oil pump pickup screen. Something else that may help > is using 5W-30 oil. Hmmmm...Camry with a V-6, eh? The sound he's describing is very familiar to me, having had a '90 240SX and an '85 Celica GTS with the 22RE...that being the tensioner starving out and allowing the chain to slack, and rub up against the housing. But I am guessing the V-6 Camry had a timing belt and not a chain, so that's not it! >>>> <jim_nospam_beas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>>> [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > But I am guessing the V-6 Camry had a timing belt and not a chain, so > that's not it! Timing belt... SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > <jim_nospam_beas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > Ray O > (correct punctuation to reply) What is an oil flush treatment? And can I do that myself? I can't find much about it on the web. I would like to find some good solvent or whatever to clean any sludge, if I find it. I don't want to use the wrong stuff. This will probably have to wait until next weekend. These things are getting more complicated than they were back in the late 70s. I replaced the clutch on my car back then, and every part was easy to find and reach. (Transmission was heavy, though!) I looked at taking the valve cover off, and the first thing I noticed is this cosmetic plastic cover on top of it that looks like it's connected to the valve cover with two pop rivets. They don't look like they fit any wrench I ever saw, but they do look like pop rivets, holding this thing right onto the top of the valve cover. >> <jim_nospam_beas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > whatever to clean any sludge, if I find it. I don't want to use the > wrong stuff. There are several engine flush products available at auto parts stores. You usually add them to the oil and run the engine for 3 to 5 minutes, then change the oil. These do-it-yourself products are probably only marginally effective, if at all, but they are inexpensive to try and probably wouldn't hurt an engine that is already sludged up. > This will probably have to wait until next weekend. These things are > getting more complicated than they were back in the late 70s. I > replaced the clutch on my car back then, and every part was easy to > find and reach. (Transmission was heavy, though!) Actually, the mechanical principles behind engines and transmissions have not changed that much since I started tinkering around 1970. Controls have become a little more complex, but when you look at them one at a time, they are pretty straightforward. > I looked at taking the valve cover off, and the first thing I noticed > is this cosmetic plastic cover on top of it that looks like it's > connected to the valve cover with two pop rivets. They don't look like > they fit any wrench I ever saw, but they do look like pop rivets, > holding this thing right onto the top of the valve cover. Go to this site for free access to Camry factory repair manuals: http://oregonstate.edu/~tongt/camry/index.html use a 5 mm hex wrench (Allen wrench) to remove the 2 fasteners on the V-bank cover. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) ----Lots of history snipped----- > Finally, I removed the old switch with a 1-1/16" socket. > Unfortuneately, the new one didn't solve the intermittent light, so I > must have a pressure problem, after all. How about actually measuring the oil pressure? You should be able to get a gage for about $30. Fits in the same hole as the pressure switch. Then you can see what's really going on. Odds are is engine wear is causing low oil pressure at idle. If it's just engine wear, using a higher viscosity oil is recommended. My Camry ('83 with 250K miles) works just fine on 10-40 in the winter and 20-50 in the summer. Temperatures where I drive vary from 0-100 F. The oil pump can be replaced and some folks do it when the timing belt is replaced. Didn't catch the year of your Camry. The old 8 valve model used hydraulic lifters. They'll clatter a bit with low oil pressure. > jim_nospam_beas...@yahoo.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Didn't catch the year of your Camry. The old 8 valve model used > hydraulic lifters. They'll clatter a bit with low oil pressure. Ray, Thanks for the info on the manuals. That is a terrific help. I just removed the oil pan, because that looked like the easiest thing to do. You are right about the sludge. The oil screen is clogged. I am hopping that that was the main problem. The pipe from the oil screen is very clean inside, though, so it looks like the sludge did not get through it (I hope). I'll try to clean it with brake cleaner, or if that doesn't look good, I'll replace it. Also, the inside of the oil pan resevoir is heavily caked with crud, and I want to clean as much off before I put the pan back on. Any suggestions on doing this would be very helpful. The upper pan is aluminum, and th elower pan is steel. I would like to use a soft brush and some sort of non-toxic solvent, if there is one. I don't like being down there with brake cleaner. >> jim_nospam_beas...@yahoo.com wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > and some sort of non-toxic solvent, if there is one. I don't like > being down there with brake cleaner. I don't know of anything that is non-toxic that will be effective at dissolving the crud, except perhaps a strong detergent. The catch is that the dissolved crud is not very environmentally friendly so using something environmentally friendly to clean it is kind of a moot point. The best thing to try is to take the pan to an auto shop or machine shop with a parts washer. They can fill the pan with solvent and let it soak for a while. Plan B is to fill the pan with solvent or kerosene at home and let is soak outside overnight (not in the garage!!), pour the solvent/kerosene into a suitable waste container, and take it to a chemical recycling place. You can try using a putty knife to scrape the inside of the pan, but if there are baffles in the bottom of the pan, it won't be too effective under the baffles. Last ditch is to replace the pan. BTW, you need O2 sensor-friendly formed-in-place gasket (FIPG) which is basically a room temperature vulcanizing (RTV) caulk to re-attach the oil pan. Make sure the stuff you use is O2 sensor friendly or you will end up replacing a sensor. The top of the head may also have some sludge buildup, but if the inside of the screen is clean, you may be in luck. Good luck! SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) I was planning to use Permatex Ultra Black, which claims to be "sensor safe." Permtex has other gasket makers, like PERMATEX Sensor-Safe High- Temp RTV Silicone Gasket Maker, which is "Formulated for oxygen sensor equipped engines." I don't know what the difference is or whether it matters, but I have a little time before I re-install, so I thought I would ask. >I was planning to use Permatex Ultra Black, which claims to be "sensor > safe." Permtex has other gasket makers, like PERMATEX Sensor-Safe High- > Temp RTV Silicone Gasket Maker, which is "Formulated for oxygen > sensor equipped engines." I don't know what the difference is or > whether it matters, but I have a little time before I re-install, so I > thought I would ask. As long as it is RTV, sensor safe, and designed for oil pan gaskets, it should be fine. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) On Mar 18, 10:13 am, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote: > <jim_nospam_beas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Ray O > (correct punctuation to reply) Mission Accomplished! I was successful at resolving the intermittent oil pressure light by removing the oil pan and cleaning the oil screen. At 225,000 miles, the oil screen was completely clogged with pieces of sludge that looked like a lot of small rocks. The inside of the oil screen tube looked clean, with only some resinous coating. While I had the lower pan off, I cleaned the inside of the lower pan completely and scraped as much of the sludge from the upper pan as I could without removing that one, too. There was a lot of gritty feeling sludge coating a lot of the surfaces. I used a plastic putty knife, a nylon scrub brush, and sometimes a brass brush, along with mostly brake cleaner and a little acetone to clean the lower pan and the oil screen. I only used the putty knife and the nylon brush on the upper (aluminum) pan. An oil change with Pennzoil High Mileage 10W-30 and a new filter finished the job. I tested the repair with about 20 miles of driving and no oil pressure light! Before, It began flashing intermittently after about 2 miles. Thanks for all the help, Ray. Now I am going to find some assistance on replacing the transmission on my 94 Suburban 4X4. I'm beginning to think that might be worth doing, too! Regards, Jim > On Mar 18, 10:13 am, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > Regards, > Jim Glad to hear that the project was successful! After doing all that cleaning and flushing, I would do an oil change fairly quickly, like within 1,000 miles, and then stick to 3,000 to 5,000 mile intervals after that. You can buy reminder stickers at auto parts stores like the ones dealership and quick lube places work. Thanks for reporting your results! BTW, that Suburban transmission is going to be heavy! You may wish to rent a transmission jack for that project! SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >>I was planning to use Permatex Ultra Black, which claims to be "sensor >> safe." Permtex has other gasket makers, like PERMATEX Sensor-Safe High- [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > As long as it is RTV, sensor safe, and designed for oil pan gaskets, it should be fine. Ray I have always kind of been curious what would happen using the wrong stuff. Would it just take out the related sensor's one time? Or would they fail repeatedly until the wrong sealer was removed? Thanks Dan >>>I was planning to use Permatex Ultra Black, which claims to be "sensor >>> safe." Permtex has other gasket makers, like PERMATEX Sensor-Safe High- [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Thanks > Dan Good question! I've never used the wrong stuff, so I do not have any first-hand experience. My guess is that sensors would keep failing until the stuff is completely cured. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >>>>I was planning to use Permatex Ultra Black, which claims to be "sensor >>>> safe." Permtex has other gasket makers, like PERMATEX Sensor-Safe High- [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I've never used the wrong stuff, so I do not have any first-hand experience. My guess is that sensors would keep failing until the > stuff is completely cured. Thanks. <snipped> > Ray I have always kind of been curious what would happen using the wrong > stuff. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Thanks. Any time! SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >Thanks for the info on the manuals. That is a terrific help. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >and some sort of non-toxic solvent, if there is one. I don't like >being down there with brake cleaner. Brake Cleaner is mostly 1,1,1 Trichloroethylene, which isn't nearly as nasty as some of the stuff they used to use. Just have a fan at your back so you have clean air, and wear gloves so it stays off your skin. And be advised that 1,1,1TCE does nasty things to some plastics, so "check for damage in an inconspicuous area" before using that catch bucket or plastic handled brush. (Had a toolbox handle melt once.) If the MSDS scares you, they're figuring the exposure limits for someone who uses the stuff 40 hours a week for a lifetime, which makes their exposure targets ridiculously low. If you only use that solvent a few times a year for a few minutes at a shot, you have much less to worry about. If you want to minimize the toxic stuff you can try other things for the initial attack like straight Kerosene, it has a pretty good solvent effect, isn't too flammable and low toxicity. Or WD-40, which is mostly Kerosene and Stoddard Solvent. Then give a final wash with brake cleaner. As the sooth sage and philosopher George Carlin once opined: "Scientists have just determined that saliva causes cancer. But only if ingested in small quantities, over a very long period of time..." --<< Bruce >>-- > If you already have the replacement switch, look at the connector. There > should be a tab that is perpendicular to the connector body. On the wire > harness side, there is a U-shaped locking connector that fits over the tab > on the switch. Use an awl, very small screwdriver, or pick to gently lift > the locking connector while pulling the harness off. Do not tug on any of > the wires, pull by holding the connector body itself. That reminds me of an old joke about a cardiologist, medical student and engineer. When an engineer goes to pull a plug out of the wall, she goes, gets a firm grip on the plug, and pulls it out surely, but gently. A cardiologist yanks out the plug out by the cord. And a medical student trips on the respiratior cord and pulls out the plub with his feet. The bottom line is never, ever pull out the plug by the wires. |
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