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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / March 2007Over Torque on wheel nuts -- Toyota dealership
Hi, I have a Lexus ES300 and took it into a Toyota dealer for a 30,000 mile service. Everything went O.K. there ... well except for the wheel / tire rotation. After about a month the weather forecast looked worse so I decided to put the winter tires onto the car. Tire's 1, 2, and 3 where O.K. But the Front right one would not budge. I was lusing an 18 inch lug bar and a 1/2 inch to 3/8 inch converter to step the size down for my 21 mm socket. I was pushing and pusching untill snap, the converter right where it drops down to 3/8 inches sears right off! O.K. I think maybe something bad with that tool. Take another down conversion 1/2inch to 3/8 inch, and after a few expletives and smashed knucles, it again sheared off. Those idiots at the Toyota dealership, TOYOTA Mt. Kisco had completely over torqued the bolts. In the end I managed to get a 21 mm socket with a 1/2 inch drive. Put it on the wheel and then standing on the breaker bar, pushed it slowly with my foot until the nut lossened. If I had to do this at the side of the road it would have been impossible. Does anyone else have similar experiences with over torqued wheel nuts? Needless to say when I put the wheels on I use a torque wrench set to 76 lbs/ft. The proper torque from the Lexus ES300 user manual. Best, Mike. I've had that problem and amazing disregard for recommended tire pressure. Recently my wife got back from a quick-change place, and they had put 45 to 63 pounds in tires that were supposed to have 32. On removing the lug nuts, it helps if you retighten the nuts that are not stuck. This relieves some of the tension on the one that's stuck. >If I had to do this at the side of the road it would have been >impossible. Does anyone else have similar experiences with over >torqued wheel nuts? Happens just about every time I have new tires put on. Lug nut torque and air pressure are all over the place. First thing I do is check tire pressure and torque. Both are then corrected to spec. >>If I had to do this at the side of the road it would have been >>impossible. Does anyone else have similar experiences with over [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >and air pressure are all over the place. First thing I do is check >tire pressure and torque. Both are then corrected to spec. Buy your tires at Sam's Club. They use a torque wrench on the wheel nuts and they do a good job of matching the tire pressure. Plus....included in the price is lifetime rotation and balance....  SignatureScott in Florida On Feb 27, 4:48 pm, Scott in Florida <askifyouw...@mindspring.net> wrote: > On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 16:23:24 -0500, NickySantoro > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Scott in Florida Actually I did twice at Sam's club and yes I agree they do a great job. However I got the tires rotated when I had the car service done at the dealer ... *sigh* > If I had to do this at the side of the road it would have been > impossible. Does anyone else have similar experiences with over > torqued wheel nuts? I had an old junker wagon on which I'd had new tires put on, or the tires rotated or something, a few months earlier. I needed to take one wheel off. I had one of those universal lug wrenches that's shaped like a plus sign with a different-sized socket at each end. Actually, I had three of them, because I had found one somewhere, one came with the car I had and another came from my previous car, because I figured the junk dealer probably had enough lug wrenches. I broke all three trying to get *any* of the lug nuts loose. On one, the socket broke, on another, it broke in the center where the bars crossed, and I think the last one broke the socket again. Now, first off they must have been made of sh*t metal because I'm not some hercules and I was twisting the wrenches with my arms as evenly as I could, not jumping or standing on one of the bars. But still, it took nearly all my strength to bust the wrenches, and none of those lugs budged. I don't remember how I finally got the lug nuts off. >> If I had to do this at the side of the road it would have been >> impossible. Does anyone else have similar experiences with over [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > as evenly as I could, not jumping or standing on one of the bars. But still, it took nearly all my strength to bust the wrenches, > and none of those lugs budged. I don't remember how I finally got the lug nuts off. Ya when my Supra was new some jerk (not a dealer) with a impact had my lug nuts on so tight I ruined a few tools and snapped two of wheel studs later on. grrrrrr. sacstinkytiger@yahoo.com mumbled incoherently to the rest of alt.autos.toyota: > Best, Mike. I've had experiences like this with nuts I've hand-tightened with a normal foot long ratchet and bodyweight. Taken to a tiny smear of anti-seize copper slip and regular checks - never had a complaint since. SignatureJ __________________________________________ http://www.jbuckle.homeip.net << My personal site http://www.aoskc.com << Ainsdale Kitesurf Club > sacstinkytiger@yahoo.com mumbled incoherently to the rest of > alt.autos.toyota: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > foot long ratchet and bodyweight. Taken to a tiny smear of anti-seize > copper slip and regular checks - never had a complaint since. "Taken to a tiny smear of anti-seize copper slip and regular checks " I think the the threads should be dry to get the proper tightening at the specified torque spec. It states in my Toyota manual the following: "CAUTION Never use oil or grease on the bolts or nuts. Doing so may lead to over-tightening the nuts and damage the bolts. The nuts may loose, and the wheels may fall off, which could cause a serious accident. If there is oil or grease on any bolt or nut, clean it". I used to put grease on the threads thinking they would not rust and would last longer. My brother, who works in an engineering department, said that was a no-no, for the same reason above. When I first got my 2004 Sienna, it said in the owners manual the wheel lugs should be torqued to the specified torque at 1000 miles. The owners manual said the wheel lug torque was 76. It did not specify what type of wheel (Alloy or Steel). I have the alloy wheels. I called every Toyota service department in Connecticut, and could not get the same answer. I was given from 60 to 110 foot pounds. Now remember, the service departments are torqueing wheels every day, without knowing what the correct torque spec is! They simply use the air wrench as it happens to be set for all wheels, large or small. It took weeks to get and answer out of Toyota via their Customer Care web site. They concluded the torque was the same for alloy or steel wheels, and it should be 76 foot pounds (right or wrong) Most tire stores have the ability to hand torque the wheels if you ask them to do so, and you know the torque spec. If you say nothing, they will probably default to the air wrench at the "setting of the day". Charles Ranheim >> sacstinkytiger@yahoo.com mumbled incoherently to the rest of >> alt.autos.toyota: [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >probably default to the air wrench at the "setting of the day". >Charles Ranheim Good tire shops use a torque wrench anyways. I used to own a mustang and if you over tightened the wheel nuts it would warp the discs. My local tire shop has always used torque wrenches. There are even torque limiters they can put on their impact wrenches. Any shop that doesn't use torque wrenches for this should be avoided like the plague. >>> sacstinkytiger@yahoo.com mumbled incoherently to the rest of >>> alt.autos.toyota: [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >Any shop that doesn't use torque wrenches for this should be avoided >like the plague. Regrettably, that is going to include virtually all tire shops except the one you referenced. Long ago I resigned myself to the fact that I was going to have to "fine tune" torque and tire pressure myself at home. >>>> sacstinkytiger@yahoo.com mumbled incoherently to the rest of >>>> alt.autos.toyota: [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > was going to have to "fine tune" torque and tire pressure myself at > home. I've had my tires mounted and rotated at Wal-Mart for years and they always use a torque wrench. Set to the correct torque, no less! >>>>> sacstinkytiger@yahoo.com mumbled incoherently to the rest of >>>>> alt.autos.toyota: [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] >I've had my tires mounted and rotated at Wal-Mart for years and they always >use a torque wrench. Set to the correct torque, no less! Ditto Sam's Club.... SignatureScott in Florida >>>>>> sacstinkytiger@yahoo.com mumbled incoherently to the rest of >>>>>> alt.autos.toyota: [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > > Ditto Sam's Club.... Why do the more expensive places do things so half-assed and the cheap places like Sam's and Wal-Mart use specs from the book? >>>I've had my tires mounted and rotated at Wal-Mart for years and they >>>always [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Why do the more expensive places do things so half-assed and the cheap >places like Sam's and Wal-Mart use specs from the book? I have no idea. It was a pleasant surprise the first time I bought tires at Sam's. I've used them ever since. SignatureScott in Florida NickySantoro mumbled incoherently to the rest of alt.autos.toyota: > Regrettably, that is going to include virtually all tire shops except > the one you referenced. Long ago I resigned myself to the fact that I > was going to have to "fine tune" torque and tire pressure myself at > home. I just insist they use one when I get new tyres, and I'll argue with them til I'm blue in the face if they dont. Mostly they dont like the threat of several hundred dollars worth of rotors being claimed off them. SignatureJ __________________________________________ http://www.jbuckle.homeip.net << My personal site http://www.aoskc.com << Ainsdale Kitesurf Club >NickySantoro mumbled incoherently to the rest of alt.autos.toyota: "Mumbled incoherently"? That's pretty freaking rude, even as an attempt at being clever. Killfiled. NickySantoro mumbled incoherently to the rest of alt.autos.toyota: > "Mumbled incoherently"? That's pretty freaking rude, even as an > attempt at being clever. > > Killfiled. LOL Upset by a standardised mildly humourous reply header - oh dear, how did you get out of high school without attempting suicide due to bullying? SignatureJ __________________________________________ http://www.jbuckle.homeip.net << My personal site http://www.aoskc.com << Ainsdale Kitesurf Club >>NickySantoro mumbled incoherently to the rest of alt.autos.toyota: > > "Mumbled incoherently"? That's pretty freaking rude, even as an > attempt at being clever. > > Killfiled. Mumble, mumble, mumble... What! cranheim mumbled incoherently to the rest of alt.autos.toyota: > I think the the threads should be dry to get the proper tightening at the > specified torque spec. It states in my Toyota manual the following: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > who works in an engineering department, said that was a no-no, for the > same reason above. Yup, im aware it is warned against, and the reasoning behind it, but I spend some time around beach locations and got tired of having seized nuts that I had to get a breaker bar to remove and had to replace a set of locking wheel nuts because of it when the locking mechanism wasnt capable of dealing with a seized nut. Strangely its the only car Ive had this problem on, beach or not. The risk of over-torquing due to lube on something of such low torque, when using a TW, is minimal. Id rather that than have to carry a breaker bar everywhere in the car, have to have breakdown insurance just in case my locking nuts get stuck (lol). I've never yet had them loosen, and providing you dont grease the mating face between nut and wheel it is highly unlikely - thread friction is minimal in comparison with that. SignatureJ __________________________________________ http://www.jbuckle.homeip.net << My personal site http://www.aoskc.com << Ainsdale Kitesurf Club |
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