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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / April 2007

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2000 Corolla new stereo getting engine (alternator?) noise

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MD99 - 05 Mar 2007 05:30 GMT
Figured I’d post to see if anyone has any suggestions other than what
I’ve tried already.  Installed a new stereo system in 2000 corolla.
New Pioneer head unit, component blaupunkts in the front, polk audio
speakers in the rear, profile amp driving the four speakers, another
profile amp driving a Dual subwoofer box with 2 12" subs.  Am getting
engine noise (whine, gets louder and faster as engine accelerates).  I
have regrounded my amps to the chassis with a very tight connection
and 12 guage ground wire, scraped all paint away to bare metal - have
tried different ground points.  Put in new battery with 2 guage ground
strap, scraped to bare metal ground point - head unit is grounded to
chassis same as battery point, but have tried different points.  Have
upgraded to top-grade twisted pair, oxygen free 12 gauge speaker wire,
rerouted speaker wire up through top of doors in panels, no other
cabling is near, upgraded signal (RCA) cables to top-grade
rockford-fosgate braided cables for optimum noise rejection, also
routed up through top of door panels away from any other cabling -
power cable to amps runs down through center of car underneath carpet
- have tried running power to amps directly from an outside battery -
no difference, have run power to head unit directly from battery
bypassing wiring through firewall - no difference.  My next step is to
replace the spark plugs and possibly the alternator itself.  Any
thoughts?  Suggestions?  Thanks

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Ray O - 05 Mar 2007 07:07 GMT
> Figured I'd post to see if anyone has any suggestions other than what
> I've tried already.  Installed a new stereo system in 2000 corolla.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> replace the spark plugs and possibly the alternator itself.  Any
> thoughts?  Suggestions?  Thanks

Does the engine have aftermarket spark plugs, or ignition parts?
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Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

MD99 - 06 Mar 2007 19:29 GMT
Have already replaced the plugs with Denso Iridium plugs - the ones
spec’d by Toyota.  I’ll work on it some more this weekend and post
back with my results.  Thanks for all the suggestions

> "MD99" <none@000.com> wrote in message
> news:983121_dc6b6fe82ed3cced3f58131a5c8828af@autoboardz.com...
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
> Does the engine have aftermarket spark plugs, or ignition
> parts?

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MD99 - 05 Mar 2007 18:28 GMT
I just put new spark plugs in it - They are Denso Iridium.  It did not
fix the problem.  I’m convinced now that it’s something related to the
ignition system - it’s more like a "ticking" noise that gets
faster-paced along with acceleration so it’s in timing with the
engine.  My car has ignition coil packs instead of wires, so....I’m
thinking now it might be one of those causing the problem.  Any
suggestions on how to troubleshoot which one is the culprit?  They’re
close $100 bucks apiece new so I’d rather not just replace them all.
Thanks for your help

> Figured I'd post to see if anyone has any suggestions other
> than what I've tried already.  Installed a new stereo system
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> spark plugs and possibly the alternator itself.  Any thoughts?
>  Suggestions?  Thanks
Ray O - 05 Mar 2007 19:46 GMT
>I just put new spark plugs in it - They are Denso Iridium.  It did not
> fix the problem.  I'm convinced now that it's something related to the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> close $100 bucks apiece new so I'd rather not just replace them all.
> Thanks for your help.

I doubt if replacing the coil packs will make the noise go away.

As someone asked before, does the noise come on both CD and radio?

Try unplugging one speaker at a time to see if one or more of the speaker
wires are picking up the noise.
Signature


Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

> > Figured I'd post to see if anyone has any suggestions other
> > than what I've tried already.  Installed a new stereo system
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> > spark plugs and possibly the alternator itself.  Any thoughts?
> >  Suggestions?  Thanks
MD99 - 07 Mar 2007 17:29 GMT
I’ve tried shielding the head unit with foil - no difference.  The
amplifiers are in the back trunk.  I haven’t tried shielding them.  I
guess I did leave out an important part of the equation - sorry!  I am
getting driveability problems also - particularly in wet weather -
seems like a misfiring, rough running.  I’m guessing that the problem
may have been present with the old factor radio but it’s just that now
with the new upgraded equipment being much more "sensitive", it is
simply picking up the noise now and you just couldn’t hear it
previously because of the poor factory radio and speakers with no
amplification.  It also seems as if you can hear the same kind of
"ticking" noise if you listen to the engine itself.   I’m not a
mechanic by any stretch so I could be completely off here.  I do have
a new coil coming which I figured I’d use to troubleshoot.  It’s easy
enough to replace one - I’ll just go down the line one at a time and
see if it makes any difference.  If not....it’s probably time to bring
it into a professional.  Thanks agai

> "MD99" <none@000.com> wrote in message
> news:985380_dc1a02925e0ea699a71b7a92e6ea328a@0000.com...
[quoted text clipped - 63 lines]
> thoughts?
> > >  Suggestions?  Thanks

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Ray O - 07 Mar 2007 19:48 GMT
> I've tried shielding the head unit with foil - no difference.  The
> amplifiers are in the back trunk.  I haven't tried shielding them.  I
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> see if it makes any difference.  If not....it's probably time to bring
> it into a professional.  Thanks again

Yup, mentioning that the car has a drivability problem would help diagnosis
big time!  Start with the coil..

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Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Hachiroku ハチロク - 05 Mar 2007 20:32 GMT
> Figured I’d post to see if anyone has any suggestions other than what
> I’ve tried already.  Installed a new stereo system in 2000 corolla. New
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> is to replace the spark plugs and possibly the alternator itself.  Any
> thoughts?  Suggestions?  Thanks

First, Ground EVERYTHING to the same point! Now, unless it is in a totally
plastic housing, the radio will ground through the frame it is mounted to.
If the screws holding the radio into the dash are metal to metal, then get
yourself some wire (you said you're using 12 ga...make sure it is WIRE and
not 'embedded' fabric type wiring they like to sell 'cause it looks cool...)
ANY wire will do. Run 12 GA wire from the ground terminal on the amps to
the head unit in the front of the car, crimp some round lugs on the ends
of the wire, loosen one of the bolts at the radio, and also run the Ground
wire from the head unit to the same point. Also, if you have any other
electronics (EQ, Active Crossover, etc) run the grounds from them to the
same point. Ground everything together and tighten the screw/bolt, being
careful not to overtighten! You don't want to strip it. You could even put
an additional nut behind it to make sure it's good and tight. You might
still get a little hum (you also have to take into account you're putting
a load on the alternator, and they get noisy when loaded down!) but it
should be less noticeable, and should go away with a little more volume
(that's how *I* take care of it!  ;)

Also, do you have any filters on the amps? Any good amp will have a
built-in filter, but adding one to each amp won't hurt. Just remember to
Ground them ALL to the same point!

Save a few bucks, try the grounding first. This will probably do it. You
don't mention what you're running for wattage, but I have a 4-channel 100W
per running MB Quarts all the way around, and then a bridged 300W running
a 12" woofer; I get a little noise, but it's not annoying. I also had very
bad spark plugs and wires that I just got done replacing, so we'll see
what it sounds like this year!

Good luck. Report back with results...  ;)
MD99 - 06 Mar 2007 06:29 GMT
Thanks again.  I didn’t see any prior post asking whether the noise
was from both CD and radio?  But...the answer is yes...as well as from
the Aux input.  I have a satellite receiver hooked up to the Aux
input.  The same noise is present regardless of the input.  I’m pretty
sure I’ve troubleshot by disconnecting the speakers one at a time at
some point, with no difference.  The speaker wires are routed up
through the tops of the door frames so there is no other wiring
present to be causing interference.  The noise is present through all
the speakers.  This is the 3rd Amp I’ve had in and the second head
unit, with no change.  I’m convinced it’s engine electrical
interference being picked up by the head unit and then amplified
through the speakers.  I’m curious...why do you think the ignition
coil wouldn’t fix the problem?  It is a "ticking" type of noise, in
time with the engine timing..

> Figured I'd post to see if anyone has any suggestions other
> than what I've tried already.  Installed a new stereo system
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> spark plugs and possibly the alternator itself.  Any thoughts?
>  Suggestions?  Thanks
Hachiroku ハチロク - 06 Mar 2007 16:29 GMT
> Thanks again.  I didn’t see any prior post asking whether the noise was
> from both CD and radio?  But...the answer is yes...as well as from the Aux
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> think the ignition coil wouldn’t fix the problem?  It is a "ticking" type
> of noise, in time with the engine timing...

Well, you've done your homework! I would still ground everything to the
same point.

Note that I wrote the rest of this and added this later...what are you
using for ignition parts? Genuine Toyota? You describe spark plug noise,
this can be caused by the plugs, wires or cap and rotor. Since Ray
mentioned something about coil packs, what are you using for plugs? I use
NGK R-Type (not "R" as in 'ricer'(sorry...) but "R" as in Resistor) If
you're using Split-Fire or any of those other supposed 'hot' plugs, trash
them and use NGK or Nippon-Denso.

OK, now onto the rest of my "Best Guesses"...

The only other thing I can think of, and I have never tried it because a
little noise doesn't bother me (and, I don't have the snapping sound
you're describing...now) is to try a cap on all the inputs. I think these
things are bling, too, but what you're describing is an AC type sound (as
opposed to DC) and the job of a cap is two-fold: it provides 'hold-up'
during large voltage spikes, but also, a cap with the + side tied to a DC
power source and the - side tied to ground passes AC 'noise' to ground (A
capacitor used as a filter passes AC and blocks DC). I don't know if this
will do it, and large caps are expensive, but for the amount of current
you'll be passing to ground you can use something like a 10 Microfarad. Or
get some of those toroidal choke coils at Radio Shack and wind the power
wires to it.

It also help to isolate where it's coming from. This is going to be a
pain! You'll have to connect the speakers to the head unit, bypassing the
amps and see if it goes away. Then add the amps back in and see if it
comes back. You said you put a filter on the head unit; try one on the
amps.

Also, check with a local stereo shop. They may have seen this in this car
before and have a quick solution for it.

I *HATE* this problem, since there are so many variables it's hard to
determine what will fix it. I would still start by running all the grounds
together, and then work from there.

At least when this guy posts, he makes it a toughy!!!   ;)

Again, if you resolve it, let us (or at least, me!) know! I've been doing
car stereo installations for about 25 years, and only had this problem
once...(and can't now remember the solution...)

>  > Figured I'd post to see if anyone has any suggestions other than what
>  > I've tried already.  Installed a new stereo system in 2000 corolla.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>  > and possibly the alternator itself.  Any thoughts?
>  >  Suggestions?  Thanks
Ray O - 06 Mar 2007 17:24 GMT
> Thanks again.  I didn't see any prior post asking whether the noise
> was from both CD and radio?  But...the answer is yes...as well as from
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> coil wouldn't fix the problem?  It is a "ticking" type of noise, in
> time with the engine timing...

I do not think it is the ignition coil because it would have caused the same
problem with the factory radio, which it apparently did not, and you did not
mention any kind of drivability problem.

This sounds kind of stupid, but try shielding the head unit and amplifiers
with foil and see if the sound changes at all.
Signature


Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

> > Figured I'd post to see if anyone has any suggestions other
> > than what I've tried already.  Installed a new stereo system
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> > spark plugs and possibly the alternator itself.  Any thoughts?
> >  Suggestions?  Thanks
Hachiroku ハチロク - 06 Mar 2007 17:53 GMT
>> Thanks again.  I didn't see any prior post asking whether the noise was
>> from both CD and radio?  But...the answer is yes...as well as from the
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> This sounds kind of stupid, but try shielding the head unit and amplifiers
> with foil and see if the sound changes at all.

Oh, great! Ray's advocating Tin Foil Hats now...   ;)
Ray O - 06 Mar 2007 19:27 GMT
<snipped>
>> This sounds kind of stupid, but try shielding the head unit and
>> amplifiers
>> with foil and see if the sound changes at all.
>
> Oh, great! Ray's advocating Tin Foil Hats now...   ;)

Sometimes you gotta think outside the box to find a solution!
Signature


Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Hachiroku ハチロク - 06 Mar 2007 20:13 GMT
> <snipped>
>>> This sounds kind of stupid, but try shielding the head unit and
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>>
> Sometimes you gotta think outside the box to find a solution!

HAHAHAHA! I've been accused of 'thinking outside the box' since I was a
kid...

It often involved suggesting counseling...   ;)
MD99 - 06 Mar 2007 06:29 GMT
Thanks, but...sorry to say I’ve already tried grounding everything to
the same point.  It didn’t make a difference.  I’ve spent several
weekends trying every possible ground combination and power wiring -
even routing power wires and ground wires all the way outside the
vehice to the amps, so they are not even remotely near any other
wiring which could pick up noise.  The amps (well...we can eliminate
the one on the Subwoofer because the noise is still present even with
that disconnected), but the amp driving the four main speakers is a
Profile 80 W/ch.  I don’t have a filter on the amp itself but I do
have one at the head unit.  It did reduce the noise quite a bit,
but...it’s still present enough to be heard and is quite annoying.  I
really would rather fix the source of the problem rather than cover it
up with filters as that will ultimately degrade the sound quality at
least to some extent.   It really does now seem to be related to the
engine firing and not the typical alternator "whine" that you hear
or read about.  As I said...this noise is more of a "ticking" noise
that gets faster and faster as you accelerate the engine.  I’ve
ordered a new ignition coil pack and I’m going to use that to
troubleshoot - hopefully one is bad and is causing the problem.
Thanks for your help.

> Figured I'd post to see if anyone has any suggestions other
> than what I've tried already.  Installed a new stereo system
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> spark plugs and possibly the alternator itself.  Any thoughts?
>  Suggestions?  Thanks
MD99 - 13 Mar 2007 23:30 GMT
Just following up with latest news.  Still no fix.  I tried replacing
each individual plug coil one at a time - no difference to the
problem.  I also tried grounding everything together to the same point
again - no difference.  I did some messing around and pulled the head
unit out to try once again rearranging or rerouting some of the wires
behind it.  Strangely enough...if I pull the head unit out about 4-6
inches from it’s resting place, the noise goes away.  Now it has sort
of morphed into more of what I would call a "radiated" noise.  The
noise is there with the engine off - just accessory turned on.
So....it seems that some electrical component or wire bundle behind
the head unit is generating an "RF" leak and is somehow being picked
up by the head unit.  Question is...how do you fix it?  I tried
shielding it with tin foil but that makes no difference.  Is there
some kind of lead shielding product I can purchase for this purpose?
I also tried running a ground wire directly to the head unit chassis
itself - no difference to the problem.  I also tried putting an
additional filter on the Amplifier end - no difference to the problem

> Figured I'd post to see if anyone has any suggestions other
> than what I've tried already.  Installed a new stereo system
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> spark plugs and possibly the alternator itself.  Any thoughts?
>  Suggestions?  Thanks
Ray O - 14 Mar 2007 04:21 GMT
> Just following up with latest news.  Still no fix.  I tried replacing
> each individual plug coil one at a time - no difference to the
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> > spark plugs and possibly the alternator itself.  Any thoughts?
> >  Suggestions?  Thanks

Try shielding the wire bundles near the head unit in addition to shielding
the head unit.  Also make sure the power and speaker wires for the head unit
do not run near the ECU.  Instead of routing the right speaker wires near
the right kick panel, fish them down the center of the car and cross to the
side under the seats.
Signature


Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Scott in Florida - 14 Mar 2007 18:02 GMT
>> Just following up with latest news.  Still no fix.  I tried replacing
>> each individual plug coil one at a time - no difference to the
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>the right kick panel, fish them down the center of the car and cross to the
>side under the seats.

I think what I would do is go to a local well respected stereo
installation shop and have them fix the problem.

It might cost you a bit but you bet they will fix your problem.

Signature


Scott in  Florida

Danny G. - 14 Mar 2007 21:15 GMT
-- snip -- snip --
>> if I pull the head unit out about 4-6 inches from it's resting place, the noise goes away.
There is your answer for were the noise is picked up.

-- snip -- snip --
>>  The noise is there with the engine off - just accessory turned on.
There is your answer for what area the noise is from.

-- snip -- snip --
>> Question is...how do you fix it?
Find the source of the noise in the accessory circuts.

-- snip -- snip --
>> > My next step is to replace the spark plugs and possibly the alternator itself.
Test accessory circuits.

-- snip -- snip --
>>  Any thoughts?
Anything that has been added or worked on in the accessory circuit's or near them would be a good
place to start.
Including ground paths.

GL
Dan
Hachiroku ハチロク - 14 Mar 2007 14:36 GMT
> Just following up with latest news.  Still no fix.  I tried replacing each
> individual plug coil one at a time - no difference to the problem.  I also
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> chassis itself - no difference to the problem.  I also tried putting an
> additional filter on the Amplifier end - no difference to the problem.

Holy crap! When you pose a problem, you sure make it a good one!!
Now when you say the noise is there with accessory on, is it also there
with IGN on, and/or the engine running?

And, what do you have for accessories that would be powered up with ACC
ON? Do you have phone chargers, XM or Sirius satellite receivers, GPS, etc?
A dealer installed alarm system? (I trust you see where I'm going here...)

I don't think it's anything TOYOTA installed on the car, more likely
something either the dealer or you added. It could be the dealer installed
something behind the dash that is interfereing with a more sensitive radio.

Also, is it there no matter what the input source, or does it go away when
accessing a CD or iPod, etc? Do you HAVE a direct iPod input? The JVCs
require a proprietary cable to add a line in, and these can cause problems
depending on what they're located next to.

Also, try turning on accessories one at a time; wipers, rear defrost,
heat/fan, etc and see if it gets worse. Then I think you'll find the
culprit.

Man, every once in a while someone pulls a real stumper out of the
air...you win the prize this time!!!   ;)

Good luck!

Oh...going over your original post, try swapping those Fosgate wires
with...Playstation wiring...it's well sheilded for being located close to
a large electro-magnet! ;) It doesn't have to be name brand; Wal*Marts
mid-priced set will work.

>  > Figured I'd post to see if anyone has any suggestions other than what
>  > I've tried already.  Installed a new stereo system in 2000 corolla.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>  > and possibly the alternator itself.  Any thoughts?
>  >  Suggestions?  Thanks
MD99 - 14 Mar 2007 20:30 GMT
You say try "shielding" the wire bundles near the head unit.
Shielding them with what?  I’ve already tried wrapping tin foil around
them, but that made no difference.  I’m not sure where the ECU is?
But...there is a large metal "box" type of thing straight behind
where the head unit sits, which I think may be it?  But...the problem
is...there is no way to route the wires/cables away from it!  They
have to sit somewhere back there when you put the head unit back in
place, so....they’re always gonna be somewhat close to it - it’s
physically impossible for them not to be.  The speaker wires are not
routed through the kick panels and dont’ seem to be near any wiring.
They’re up through the top of the door panels and then come down
through the sail panels (I think that’s what they’re called?) and then
down into the front doors.  I’ve tried re-routing the signal cables
behind the head unit a million different ways - no difference

> Just following up with latest news.  Still no fix.  I tried
> replacing each individual plug coil one at a time - no
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> putting an additional filter on the Amplifier end - no
> difference to the problem.
Ray O - 14 Mar 2007 20:55 GMT
> You say try "shielding" the wire bundles near the head unit.
> Shielding them with what?  I've already tried wrapping tin foil around
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> down into the front doors.  I've tried re-routing the signal cables
> behind the head unit a million different ways - no difference.

Did you try shielding both the car's wire bundle and the head unit's wire
bundle with foil?

the car has several ECU's.  The main engine ECU is probably in the right
kick panel, and the one behind the radio may be for the air bags,
transmission, or climate control.
Signature


Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

MD99 - 16 Mar 2007 05:30 GMT
I agree with you about taking it to a car stereo installation shop;
however, unfortunately....money is the issue there.  I fear an
enormous charge and them ripping the entire system apart and starting
from scratch, etc.  Or......my other fear is they turn around and say
they don’t know what the problem is, charge me an arm and a leg...then
I’m still stuck and have to bring it to a garage to troubleshoot an
electrical system issue and.....you know how that goes!   Anyway....I
am about out of tricks though and I think I may stop by a shop and see
what they have to say.  Thank

> Just following up with latest news.  Still no fix.  I tried
> replacing each individual plug coil one at a time - no
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> putting an additional filter on the Amplifier end - no
> difference to the problem.
MD99 - 04 Apr 2007 01:25 GMT
Hi Everyone,

Just writing back to let you know that I finally fixed the problem by
replacing the Pioneer head unit.  I put a JVC in and it’s all set now.
The Pioneer must have been hosed.  Now it sounds awesome, with no
noise at all.  Thanks to all for your suggestions and help along the
way.

> Figured I'd post to see if anyone has any suggestions other
> than what I've tried already.  Installed a new stereo system
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> spark plugs and possibly the alternator itself.  Any thoughts?
>  Suggestions?  Thanks
 
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