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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / March 20072007 Matrix: gripes
I got a 2003 Corolla about 4 1/2 years ago and we just picked up a 2007 Matrix XR for the wife. So far, so good, but there are some things about it that disappoint me right off the bat. If you're not into whining, please skip to the next post. :-) First, there's the driver's seat height adjustment. Bad news. The seat only adjusts up. What I mean is, the lowest position to which you can adjust the seat is about as high off the floor as it is in the Corolla, which is about 2-3 inches too high for me. Next, the instrument cluster. Whose bright idea was it to bury each gauge inside a black, 4 1/2 inch long tunnel? You have to have the gauges backlighted all the time in order to see them. To make matters worse, they put a strip of bright chrome around the lip of each tube to catch any glint of sunlight entering the car and redirect it into your eye, making it even harder to see the instruments. Finally, they f.cked up the speedometer by only marking the 20s--20, 40, 60, 80, etc. Why? Is it supposed to look cool? Are multiples of 20 good luck? Is Toyota making a statement against the 55-mph speed limit found on most local 2-lane highways? To crown this steaming pile of dash, they list the gauges--"Optitron Meters"--as one of the highlights of the car! To be fair, it obviously wasn't Optitron's idea to mount the meters inside a tube, and for all I know, Toyota might have designed the meters build by Optitron. Then there's the "tire pressure low" warning. It would be great if it told you which tire was low. All it tells you is that one of them is low. Better than nothing, I guess--saves having to check them every so often. >I got a 2003 Corolla about 4 1/2 years ago and we just picked up a 2007 >Matrix XR for the wife. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > adjust the seat is about as high off the floor as it is in the Corolla, > which is about 2-3 inches too high for me. I assume you drove a demo Matrix? Why didn't you realize the problem then? > Next, the instrument cluster. Whose bright idea was it to bury each gauge > inside a black, 4 1/2 inch long tunnel? You have to have the gauges [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > speedometer by only marking the 20s--20, 40, 60, 80, etc. Why? Is it > supposed to look cool? If you can't interpolate the difference between 40 and 50 when the needle is halfway between those numbers, I'd hate to have your depth perception and lots of other common judgments. Maybe you should have a Mercury Cougar like my old one with a digital dash that recorded every mile increase or decrease in speed? Are multiples of 20 good luck? Is Toyota making a statement against > the 55-mph speed limit found on most local 2-lane highways? To crown this > steaming pile of dash, they list the gauges--"Optitron Meters"--as one of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > told you which tire was low. All it tells you is that one of them is low. > Better than nothing, I guess--saves having to check them every so often. gee, it's a shame that Toyota salesman put a gun to your head and told you it was "buy" or "die". Maybe your wife likes it, even if you don't. As to the low tire pressure gimmick.....it really doesn't absolve you of checking pressures regularly. IIRC the indicator only shows if one tire is 12 lb less than the rest, and you run the risk of having one or more tires way short of the required pressure. >>I got a 2003 Corolla about 4 1/2 years ago and we just picked up a 2007 >>Matrix XR for the wife. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I assume you drove a demo Matrix? Nope. I sat in one before I bought it and found out that way. > Why didn't you realize the problem then? Why do you assume I didn't? Do you think I wouldn't have bought the car then? >> Then there's the "tire pressure low" warning. It would be great if it >> told you which tire was low. All it tells you is that one of them is >> low. Better than nothing, I guess--saves having to check them every so >> often. > gee, it's a shame that Toyota salesman put a gun to your head and told you > it was "buy" or "die". It's also a shame that you're a dunderheaded dimwit. You made an incorrect assumption, and then responded to that assumption with sarcasm. > Maybe your wife likes it, even if you don't. > As to the low tire pressure gimmick.....it really doesn't absolve you of > checking pressures regularly. IIRC the indicator only shows if one tire > is 12 lb less than the rest, and you run the risk of having one or more > tires way short of the required pressure. Well, that was informative and useful--I was beginning to think you had nothing to contribute but sarcasm. Still, you're WAY too emotional over this. Clearly you felt the need to personally insult me over criticisms I had for the Matrix. That in itself doesn't bother me, but the fact that you felt that you had to be insulting tells a lot about you. I'm sorry that I hurt your feelings somehow, now stop being such a pussy about it for crying out loud. Sheesh. >>>I got a 2003 Corolla about 4 1/2 years ago and we just picked up a 2007 >>>Matrix XR for the wife. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >>> adjust the seat is about as high off the floor as it is in the Corolla, >>> which is about 2-3 inches too high for me The higher minimum seat height may have been the interior designer's way to get more back seat room. By raising the seat bottom, a back seat passenger can fit their feet under the front seats, providing a little more room to stretch their legs. I do not know if this is true of the Matrix/Vibe, but if there is a power seat option, the power seats sometimes offere a greater range of adjustment. <snipped> >>> Then there's the "tire pressure low" warning. It would be great if it >>> told you which tire was low. All it tells you is that one of them is >>> low. Better than nothing, I guess--saves having to check them every so >>> often. Unfortunately, one has to step up to a more expensive car to know which tire to check. For example, the Lexus :LS has an "information center" that will tell you which tire is low.  SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >>>>I got a 2003 Corolla about 4 1/2 years ago and we just picked up a 2007 >>>>Matrix XR for the wife. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Matrix/Vibe, but if there is a power seat option, the power seats > sometimes offere a greater range of adjustment. Makes sense. I just live with it. A pillow for lumbar support prevents the seat back from reshaping my spine into a letter C, and that's comfortable enough, even for distance driving... > <snipped> >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > tire to check. For example, the Lexus :LS has an "information center" > that will tell you which tire is low. Is it true that it won't tell you a tire is low unless one is at least 12 lbs low? I haven't had a chance to read the manual yet. Still, that's better than nothing, I guess. <snipped> >> Unfortunately, one has to step up to a more expensive car to know which >> tire to check. For example, the Lexus :LS has an "information center" [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > lbs low? I haven't had a chance to read the manual yet. Still, that's > better than nothing, I guess. There are 2 types of tire pressure monitoring systems. The indirect system uses the wheel speed sensors from the antilock brake system to monitor each wheel speed. If a tire is significantly low on pressure, it will rotate at a different speed from the other wheels and a light will come on. This type of system needs a greater difference in tire pressure, probably on the order of 12 PSI. The direct system is more expensive to produce and uses a tire pressure switch mounted on the inside of the valve stem and sends a signal to a receiver via radio frequency. I am not sure what the threshold for illuminating the warning light is for this system, and I do not know which system the Matrix has. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) <snipped> > There are 2 types of tire pressure monitoring systems. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > illuminating the warning light is for this system, and I do not know which > system the Matrix has. Thanks for the info. The cheap one, I'll bet. Haven't found anything on it in the OM yet... > <snipped> >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Thanks for the info. The cheap one, I'll bet. Haven't found anything on > it in the OM yet... I wouldn't take your bet. Cheap often wins engineering arguments. :-) "Inexpensive" might be a better term. The advantage is of this system is that it's a nearly "free" way of adding some tire pressure monitoring to the car (the wheel speed sensors are already there for the ABS). The disadvantage is that it doesn't, as you point out, give you complete information. It also won't tell you when a pair (or all?) are getting low. Still, if you get a rapid enough leak to cause immediate danger, you'll likely find out before you find out the hard way. I believe on my Sienna the book says it will warn you if a tire is 5 psi low. That's a fairly useful value. However, the sensitivity could also be determined by tire size and other factors. I imagine your book will tell you. Oh, more bad news: wheel spin on ice and snow may cause the system to think you have a pressure difference. You may find a reset procedure or the indicator may just go away if it stops sensing a problem and you stop/start the engine again. We ran into that on a trip when the right side of the lane was icy going uphill while the left was not icy and the engine thoughtfully spun the right wheel a bit for me. I figured that was what triggered the light but stopped as soon as convenient to check pressure, found they were normal and I think the light just sort of went out on its own. Your book may have more details. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> <snipped> >>> [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > pressure, found they were normal and I think the light just sort of went > out on its own. Your book may have more details. Thanks! Yeah, if I look at as a safety feature to let me know when a tire has developed a leak I haven't noticed, it's a nice feature. One question--my owner's manual talks about the traction control system, but I didn't see there it says that little disclaimer to the effect that "If you didn't pay extra for this feature, they you don't have it, dum-dum!" However, I don't really remember it listed as an option otherwise I probably would have remembered it, and the light for it is replaced with a handy coin holder that appears to hold nearly a buck in quarters... > "<snipped> One question--my owner's manual talks about the traction > control system, but I didn't see there it says that little disclaimer to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > replaced with a handy coin holder that appears to hold nearly a buck in > quarters... When you turn the ignition to the on position without starting the car, there will be a "Trac Off" light illuminated. Also, if the car has traction control, there should be a "Trac" switch somewhere. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >> "<snipped> One question--my owner's manual talks about the traction >> control system, but I didn't see there it says that little disclaimer to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > there will be a "Trac Off" light illuminated. Also, if the car has > traction control, there should be a "Trac" switch somewhere. I don't have it because I didn't see it as an option. I think Toyota hired unemployed Chrysler engineers to design their web page. >>> "<snipped> One question--my owner's manual talks about the traction >>> control system, but I didn't see there it says that little disclaimer to [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I think Toyota hired unemployed Chrysler engineers to design their web > page. Traction control comes with Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) and is listed in the "options" link for the Matrix. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >>>> "<snipped> One question--my owner's manual talks about the traction >>>> control system, but I didn't see there it says that little disclaimer [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Traction control comes with Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) and is listed > in the "options" link for the Matrix. What I did is, I went through the "build and price your Toyota" link. Going through that way, you are only shown a few very limited option packages. I didn't know there were other options available until after I bought it. It never occurred to me that some options were hidden to people who wanted to build and price their Toyota. Not a good way to design a web site, IMO. <snipped> > Traction control comes with Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) and is listed >> in the "options" link for the Matrix. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > people who wanted to build and price their Toyota. Not a good way to > design a web site, IMO. I agree, in that application, a simple check box would be easiest. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > I'm sorry > that I hurt your feelings somehow, SOME of us take our Toyotas SERIOUSLY!!! Back in the 70's and early 80's I used to take a LOT of sh!t about driving a Japanese "Sh!tbox". One guy with an Iroc wanted to race me, and I said I'll pick the road (the windiest one in the county) and we each get 2 gallons of gas, and let's see who makes it to the end the fastest. He passed... As much of a Toyota Lunatic as I am (fanatic doesn't even come close!) they don't do EVERYTHING 100%! >> I'm sorry >> that I hurt your feelings somehow, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > As much of a Toyota Lunatic as I am (fanatic doesn't even come close!) > they don't do EVERYTHING 100%! Cool response to the IROC (Ignorant Retard Out Crusin'? Sorry to any IROC fans) guy. Yeah, the fact that I can't really find anything more than the instruments and driver ergonomics says a lot about how well-designed the car is... and I think the poor driver's ergonomics may be a demand from marketing, because, as a friend pointed out, the cheapest model of most brands of cars has something in its design to annoy the driver, apparently so they'll get a more expensive model next time. >>> I'm sorry >>> that I hurt your feelings somehow, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > brands of cars has something in its design to annoy the driver, apparently > so they'll get a more expensive model next time. I'd ask how old you are, too, because they are designing the cars for the market in mind, and the Martix is aimed at younger, less affluent drivers, who seem to like the cars that way! >>>> I'm sorry >>>> that I hurt your feelings somehow, [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > market in mind, and the Martix is aimed at younger, less affluent drivers, > who seem to like the cars that way! I forgot to answer Ray... I'm 41. ><snipped> > I'd ask how old you are, too, because they are designing the cars for the >> market in mind, and the Martix is aimed at younger, less affluent >> drivers, >> who seem to like the cars that way! > > I forgot to answer Ray... I'm 41. I'm not the one who asked your age, but I have a decade head start on you! SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >><snipped> > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> I forgot to answer Ray... I'm 41. > I'm not the one who asked your age, but I have a decade head start on you! Gonna be hard for me to catch up, too... >>><snipped> >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Gonna be hard for me to catch up, too... <SNERK!> You'll be there before you know it! >>>><snipped> >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > <SNERK!> You'll be there before you know it! Yeah, but when I get there, he'll still have a decade on me. >>>>><snipped> >>>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Yeah, but when I get there, he'll still have a decade on me. And 1 year on me! >>><snipped> >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Gonna be hard for me to catch up, too... No need to rush things, they happen quick enough as it is! SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >>>><snipped> >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > No need to rush things, they happen quick enough as it is! Got that right! I'm not quite in such good shape as you, so today I'm kind of feeling the backlash from two days working on that snowblower! <snipped> >>>>> I forgot to answer Ray... I'm 41. >>>> I'm not the one who asked your age, but I have a decade head start on [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I'm not quite in such good shape as you, so today I'm kind of feeling the > backlash from two days working on that snowblower! I don't consider myself in particularly good shape. One of the places we go climbing has about 600' of elevation gain (60 stories) to the top of the bluffs. There is a path with about a 3/4 mile hike to get to the top, and I can do that with minimal wheezing with a 50 pound backpack full of climbing gear. There is another route that is basically rocks arranged as stairs that zig zag up so you are taking the elevation gain in about 1/8 mile, and I'm huffing and puffing and have to stop to rest along the way up that route. Since there are usually high school age scouts in our group, I've learned to make them carry as much of the hardware, ropes, and water as will fit in their packs ;-) SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > <snipped> >>>>>> I forgot to answer Ray... I'm 41. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > and I can do that with minimal wheezing with a 50 pound backpack full of > climbing gear. And you *don't* consider yourself in particularly good shape?! I'd be wheezing if I *drove* up 600' of elevation... >> <snipped> >>>>>>> I forgot to answer Ray... I'm 41. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > And you *don't* consider yourself in particularly good shape?! I'd be > wheezing if I *drove* up 600' of elevation... I used to have no trouble trotting up those rocky stairs. :-( Fortunately, gravity and your hands do all the work when rappelling, and I only have to climb to show the kids that a particular pitch is climb-able if they can't get past some point on the wall. :-) SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >>> <snipped> >>>>>>>> I forgot to answer Ray... I'm 41. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > I used to have no trouble trotting up those rocky stairs. :-( But now, you strap on fifty pounds and run to the top, and when you get there you're experiencing "minimal wheezing." Why you poor, decrepit old codger, you. ;-) <snipped> >>> I don't consider myself in particularly good shape. One of the places >>>> we go climbing has about 600' of elevation gain (60 stories) to the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > there you're experiencing "minimal wheezing." Why you poor, decrepit old > codger, you. ;-) Yeah, it is tough getting old! SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > <snipped> >>>>>> I forgot to answer Ray... I'm 41. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > group, I've learned to make them carry as much of the hardware, ropes, and > water as will fit in their packs ;-) Um...you make it a HELL of a lot further than *I* would! >> <snipped> >>>>>>> I forgot to answer Ray... I'm 41. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Um...you make it a HELL of a lot further than *I* would! If I ever make it back to your neck of the woods, I'll take you climbing and rappelling. If we don't have Scouts along, I can cut out some of the redundant rescue gear so we can travel a little lighter and easier. Better yet, come out here and we'll go to Devil's Lake State Park in Baraboo, WI Here is a site with pictures of some of the climbing areas: http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/4055/dlake2.htm Here is a picture from camp where you can see where the kids are bigger than me (in the yellow helmet): http://www.nwsc.org/gallery/2004-Venturing-Tower-Climbing-Day-at-Camp-Lakota/04t ower0008 Hangin' at the tower... http://www.nwsc.org/gallery/2004-Venturing-Tower-Climbing-Day-at-Camp-Lakota/04t ower0026 SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >>> <snipped> >>>>>>>> I forgot to answer Ray... I'm 41. [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > Hangin' at the tower... > http://www.nwsc.org/gallery/2004-Venturing-Tower-Climbing-Day-at-Camp-Lakota/04t ower0026 I was going to mention something about pic 26 before I clicked on the link! Although I have done some mild rapelling, I guess I never told you I'm a coward who's agorophobic...? <snipped> >> If I ever make it back to your neck of the woods, I'll take you climbing >> and rappelling. If we don't have Scouts along, I can cut out some of the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Although I have done some mild rapelling, I guess I never told you I'm a > coward who's agorophobic...? You can't see the ground in pic 26, but my head is probably only 6 or 8 feet off the ground (note the seams on the boards) because when I was up higher, the picture didn't turn out very well. My rap rope is locked off on the rescue 8 on my harness so I won't slide on the rope, and a belayer is standing by to tug on the rope in case I screw up (or down) ;-) BTW, I think it is "acrophobia." Heights bother me too! You get used to it after 5 or 10 minutes standing on the edge, and as a buddy says, the rush during those 5 or 10 minutes is the next best thing to sex, and since we're married, we go rappelling ;-) SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > <snipped> >>> If I ever make it back to your neck of the woods, I'll take you [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > BTW, I think it is "acrophobia." Um, I think you're correct: "Agoraphobia is an anxiety disorder which primarily consists of the fear of experiencing a difficult or embarrassing situation from which the sufferer cannot escape." But I *AM* Agoraphobic, too! Esp when hanging upside down from a rope, no matter HOW far up! ;) > Heights bother me too! You get used to > it after 5 or 10 minutes standing on the edge, and as a buddy says, the > rush during those 5 or 10 minutes is the next best thing to sex, and since > we're married, we go rappelling ;-) Man, I get the shivers watching someone do this in a MOVIE!!! I did go to the deck on the World Trade Center (Well, the Observation 'floor', since it wasn't a deck...) and stepped down into one of the window wells they had so you could look down. STILL gave me the willies, and all I could think of was the glass popping out like the building in Boston... It was a rush, though. I used to work in W. Springfield and had to drive 391 to get to work. 391 is level with a couple of 5-story buildings, and one morning they were retarring the flat roof on one. Guy was right at the edge, looking down at his work, and that made my knees weak. NOT the job for me!! >> <snipped> >>>> If I ever make it back to your neck of the woods, I'll take you [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > retarring the flat roof on one. Guy was right at the edge, looking down at > his work, and that made my knees weak. NOT the job for me!! If I can get an 11 year old Boy Scout to lean backwards over the edge and rappel 50 feet, I should be able to coach an old Yankee over. ;-) BTW, we don't let the kids rappel upside down or face first, military style. The upside-down thing is only necessary if someone is hung up on a rope and panicking-flailing, and the rescuer does not want to get too close to the victim. The rescuer locks off above the victim and flips upside down to reach the victim and secure a pick off strap, then work at untangling the victim. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >> I used to work in W. Springfield and had to drive 391 to get to work. 391 >> is level with a couple of 5-story buildings, and one morning they were [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > upside down to reach the victim and secure a pick off strap, then work at > untangling the victim. I tried rappelling years ago and thought it was fun. Now you need a "victim"? Is this a new torture? How times have changed! :-) -Dave > Ray O > (correct punctuation to reply) >>> I used to work in W. Springfield and had to drive 391 to get to work. >>> 391 [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >> Ray O >> (correct punctuation to reply) If a lot of people rappel on the same rope using a rappel device that looks like a figure 8, the rope becomes twisted. If someone at the top does not occasionally shake the twists out, it will eventually curl up and get stuck in the rappel device, leaving the rappeller hanging. Also, if the rappeller is wearing loose clothing, it is possible for the clothing to get caught up in the rappel device, leaving the rappeller hanging. If the rappeller does not know self-rescue techniques, the instructor has to drop another rope next to the rappeller and rig some foot loops with accessory cord so the rappeller can step into the loop and take pressure off of the rappel rope so it can be untangled. As long as the instructor knows what he or she is doing, the rescue (more like an assist) is easy and safe. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >>>> I used to work in W. Springfield and had to drive 391 to get to work. >>>> 391 [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > knows what he or she is doing, the rescue (more like an assist) is easy > and safe. Ray, My last comment was only meant as a joke - hope you didn't take it otherwise! I've only tried with some friends years ago. One guy had the gear and we were in the woods, and he was doing all the instructing. I remember it was fun, and as long as precautions such as what you mentioned it's actually safe! Have you ever had to rescue any of the victims - I mean, scouts? -Dave <snipped> >>> I tried rappelling years ago and thought it was fun. Now you need a >>> "victim"? Is this a new torture? How times have changed! :-) [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > -Dave I figured you were joking about the victim, but I wanted to explain that getting a victim unstuck is not all that difficult or dramatic. ;-) I am pretty conscientious about untwisting the rope from the top of the rappel because it will feel kind of stiff when rigging the rappel device. I have never had a rappeller get hung up because I untwist the ropes and make sure all loose clothing is secured and hair is tied back or tucked under the helmet. I have had quite a few scouts get to the 35 or 50 foot level of the climbing tower level and get too scared to rappel down or climb down the ladder (which is equipped with an auto-belay fall protection system. In those situations, I usually rig another rappel rope next to the first one, attach a pick-off strap to the rappeller, and rappel next to them. There is always a belayer on the rappel rope, and we rap on two ropes for an extra measure of safety. At the natural areas where we go, there is usually a way to walk down if someone who does not want to rappel. In the case of cub scouts (6 - 10 years old) who have climbed onto the platform at the 20' level of the tower and who are too scared to step off and hang from the belay rope to come down, I climb up and try to calm them down. The kids who get that scared will sometimes start to cry, and that gets the other kids scared so if I can't calm him down in a few minutes, I rig the rappel ropes, attach the pick-off strap to the cub scout, and with a belayer still on the cub scout and another belayer for me, I pick up the kid around the waist with my left arm and rappel with my right. It takes less than 5 seconds to rappel 20 feet so it is a quick and safe way down. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > <snipped> >>>> I tried rappelling years ago and thought it was fun. Now you need a [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > I figured you were joking about the victim, but I wanted to explain that > getting a victim unstuck is not all that difficult or dramatic. ;-) Gotcha! Just wasn't sure if you knew I was joking.. > I am pretty conscientious about untwisting the rope from the top of the > rappel because it will feel kind of stiff when rigging the rappel device. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > kid around the waist with my left arm and rappel with my right. It takes > less than 5 seconds to rappel 20 feet so it is a quick and safe way down. I'm sure you've had your share of rescuing the 6-10 year olds! Still sounds like fun - for the warmer weather :-) -Dave <anipped> > I'm sure you've had your share of rescuing the 6-10 year olds! Still > sounds like fun - for the warmer weather :-) > > -Dave I generally only have to "assist" 1 or 2 people a year off of the tower, out of the 500 or so I lead on climbing outings, and those are the ones who didn't heed my advice to "don't look down." ;-) Warmer weather is approaching :-D I may run up to our camp in Wisconsin to do some maintenance on the tower in May, and we're also trying to plan a climbing trip for the troop in May, I'll help teach an instructor class in June, and 4 Saturdays at summer camp in June and July for Cub Scouts. Hopefully, I can get in at least a dozen climbing days in this year. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > <anipped> >> I'm sure you've had your share of rescuing the 6-10 year olds! Still [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > summer camp in June and July for Cub Scouts. Hopefully, I can get in at > least a dozen climbing days in this year. Whoa, it's a small percentage you've gotta help down. Isn't looking down supposed to be part of the fun? Indeed, warmer weather is coming and the days are getting longer. People can now wake from their hibernation to get out and get some exercise! Hope you get some good days out there this year. -Dave <snipped> > I generally only have to "assist" 1 or 2 people a year off of the tower, >> out of the 500 or so I lead on climbing outings, and those are the ones [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Whoa, it's a small percentage you've gotta help down. Isn't looking down > supposed to be part of the fun? Overall, most people make it up and down without any problems. I drove my son back to school today and stopped by a place where they converted grain elevators into an indoor climbing area. There was a group of what looked like 8 year old kids climbing for a birthday party, and they were on a pretty easy route with lots of holds. I watched a couple of them scramble 65 feet to the top of the silo. > Indeed, warmer weather is coming and the days are getting longer. People > can now wake from their hibernation to get out and get some exercise! > > Hope you get some good days out there this year. > > -Dave Thanks!! I am hoping to get some good days out there too!! SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > <snipped> > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >> > Thanks!! I am hoping to get some good days out there too!! You're welcome - and don't forget the pics! -Dave >>>>> I'm sorry >>>>> that I hurt your feelings somehow, [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > I forgot to answer Ray... I'm 41. You're a bit outside the Demographic. The Matrix is really aimed at 18-36 YO range. Actually, they probably dropped the 18-24 range by discontinuing the XRs model, so it's planted at 20-somethings, maybe with a couple kids or another need for a small wagon, who want something not so stioc looking. Of course, if you're 41, they won't hesitate to sell you one! ;) >>>>>> I'm sorry >>>>>> that I hurt your feelings somehow, [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > YO range. Actually, they probably dropped the 18-24 range by discontinuing > the XRs model, Oh, was that the one with the 180-horse mill? > so it's planted at 20-somethings, maybe with a couple kids > or another need for a small wagon, who want something not so stioc > looking. > > Of course, if you're 41, they won't hesitate to sell you one! ;) I went the way of the internet sale. Sent for quotes, went with the second best one (the one who sent the best quote started jerking me around) and told them what I wanted. The only thing they actually sold me (meaning got me to buy that I didn't really want) was the floor mats, which aren't that useful when you're tracking in bootloads of snow, salt and sand (I wish Nifty made the Catch-all Xtremes front carpet protectors for the Matrix!) >> You're a bit outside the Demographic. The Matrix is really aimed at >> 18-36 YO range. Actually, they probably dropped the 18-24 range by >> discontinuing the XRs model, > > Oh, was that the one with the 180-horse mill? Oh...yeah...what a RIDE! You could feel it wanting to pull right away, and when you got on the street it just wanted to RUN! I never got to drive one on the highway, but I think it's a good thing it came with a six-speed! >> so it's planted at 20-somethings, maybe with a couple kids or another >> need for a small wagon, who want something not so stioc looking. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > and sand (I wish Nifty made the Catch-all Xtremes front carpet protectors > for the Matrix!) You know, you really ought to be a bit nicer to your wife than pick out such a terrible POS for her to drive. Hopefully she will beat you to a pulp for that, and then make you check her tires every night before bed, LOL. > I got a 2003 Corolla about 4 1/2 years ago and we just picked up a 2007 > Matrix XR for the wife. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > you which tire was low. All it tells you is that one of them is low. > Better than nothing, I guess--saves having to check them every so often. > You know, you really ought to be a bit nicer to your wife than pick > out such a terrible POS for her to drive. Hopefully she will beat you > to a pulp for that, and then make you check her tires every night > before bed, LOL. Actually, I like the car a lot. The seat and instruments bite, and the horsepower power and handling are just acceptable; but the reliability, quality, gas mileage and price are all outstanding! I've even started to like the way it looks. >> You know, you really ought to be a bit nicer to your wife than pick out >> such a terrible POS for her to drive. Hopefully she will beat you to a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > quality, gas mileage and price are all outstanding! I've even started to > like the way it looks. I always like the way it looked, esp the XRs with the 180 HP engine and the add-ons! As far as the seats and the instruments, I have the same problem with my Scion tC. The seats REALLY suck, and the only problem I have with instruments is the lack of them. Oil Pressure would have been really nice! I have LED illumination in the Scion, it's Orange. I'm investigating changing it to Blue...you have to unsolder the LEDs and solder new ones in. I believe the Matrix is red over blue, which is what I want. Also, I think the Matrix is sojme sort of flourescent-tube display like the VW's, IIRC. I think it look Smooth! >>> You know, you really ought to be a bit nicer to your wife than pick out >>> such a terrible POS for her to drive. Hopefully she will beat you to a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I always like the way it looked, esp the XRs with the 180 HP engine and > the add-ons! There was a 180-HP engne available? Interesting. My XR only came with the de-tuned Corolla engine which I think is around 123 HP. > As far as the seats and the instruments, I have the same problem with my > Scion tC. The seats REALLY suck, and the only problem I have with > instruments is the lack of them. Oil Pressure would have been really nice! Yeah, that's always good. >>>> You know, you really ought to be a bit nicer to your wife than pick >>>> out such a terrible POS for her to drive. Hopefully she will beat you [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > There was a 180-HP engne available? Interesting. My XR only came with > the de-tuned Corolla engine which I think is around 123 HP. Yeah, the XRs was available with a Celica engine, the 1.8L. However, it was discontinued in '06. I think it had to do with the discontinuation of the Celica in North America. >> As far as the seats and the instruments, I have the same problem with my >> Scion tC. The seats REALLY suck, and the only problem I have with >> instruments is the lack of them. Oil Pressure would have been really >> nice! > > Yeah, that's always good. Yeah, it was a disappointment, and I don't want to add anything on unless it looks at least close to Factory. The car I see in the *bling* magazines are rediculous. It's a road car, not a drifter... >I got a 2003 Corolla about 4 1/2 years ago and we just picked up a 2007 >Matrix XR for the wife. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > told you which tire was low. All it tells you is that one of them is low. > Better than nothing, I guess--saves having to check them every so often. In order to formulate a response, it would help to know how old you are. >>I got a 2003 Corolla about 4 1/2 years ago and we just picked up a 2007 >>Matrix XR for the wife. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > In order to formulate a response, it would help to know how old you are. If you're another one of those people who feels personally hurt by my criticisms of the Matrix and you want to provide a personally insulting retort, save your time for something worthwhile. Otherwise, why do you want to know my age? > "JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> In order to formulate a response, it would help to know how old >> you are. > If you're another one of those people who feels personally hurt by > my criticisms of the Matrix and you want to provide a personally > insulting retort, save your time for something worthwhile. > Otherwise, why do you want to know my age? Why would someone named "That Guy" worry about what someone named "JoeSpareBedroom" had to say about him? cordially, as always, rm On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 22:01:50 +0000, rm wrote: >> "JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > rm LOL! For once, I'm laughing WITH you!!! >> "JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > rm LOL good point... I think. >>> Then there's the "tire pressure low" warning. It would be great if it >>> told you which tire was low. All it tells you is that one of them is [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Otherwise, why do you want to know my age? Probably to get a handle on where you are in the demographic. I was kind of wondering that, too, to be honest. Your gripes are the same as a lot of my gripes about the car. While overall it is a decent concept, there are some things I didn't like (but, I DO like the dash! It's COOL!) I'm a freshly-minted 50. Toyota has designed this car more with younger buyers in mind, the Sport minded or the young families with small kids that might need a wagon. Trouble is, when I was at the dealership, most of them were bought by people OLDER than I! I have a Pontiac Vibe, which is the same as a Matrix. The dash isn't that bad, you do get used to it. It is easy to find the info like gas level, or tach without having to hut for it. I would change the steering wheel, it's too small, and there are no elbow rests so you HAVE to keep both hands on the wheel. >I have a Pontiac Vibe, which is the same as a Matrix. The dash isn't that >bad, you do get used to it. Agreed. It's just that I get irritated when idiot designers sacrifice function for form, especially when the form they choose isn't asthetically worthwhile. > It is easy to find the info like gas level, or tach without having to hut > for it. > > I would change the steering wheel, it's too small, and there are no elbow > rests so you HAVE to keep both hands on the wheel. Well, I've seen some people drive with one hand in their lap, I suppose if your arms get tired from steering the car you could rest them like that. One at a time, of course. ;-) The size of the steering wheel doesn't bother me, but if the seat went down three inches and the steering wheel telescoped out three to four inches, it would be close to perfect. > The size of the steering wheel doesn't bother me, but if the seat went down > three inches and the steering wheel telescoped out three to four inches, it > would be close to perfect. I bet part of the steering wheel design is to keep you at least 10-12 inches away from the airbag... I bet thats why they don't telescope.. They probably fear many people would crank it right up next to them, and then they would see a slew of people damaged by the close airbag going off. I've never seen the inside of a matrix yet, but have seen a few on the road. I kinda liked the outside look of them. Myself, I just recently bought a corolla.. Been ok so far I suppose.. I've driven 1800 miles in that car just in the last three days looking at various real estate. Pretty peppy for a 1.8 L four banger. I had to do a couple of passing situations on the road, and it moved on out and around them no problem..I even kinda like the growl of the engine myself, although it bugs some people.. MK >> The size of the steering wheel doesn't bother me, but if the seat went >> down [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > fear many people would crank it right up next to them, and then they > would see a slew of people damaged by the close airbag going off. That makes sense! > I've never seen the inside of a matrix yet, but have seen a few on the > road. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > the growl of the engine myself, although it bugs some people.. > MK Same here. > I have a Pontiac Vibe, which is the same as a Matrix. The dash isn't that > bad, you do get used to it. It is easy to find the info like gas level, or > tach without having to hut for it. > > I would change the steering wheel, it's too small, and there are no elbow > rests so you HAVE to keep both hands on the wheel. I believe this is an 'ergonomic safety' feature, to force both hands on the wheel. The Scion tC is set up the same way. It's a bit uncomfortable. They actually learned this from truckers. When the trucks got TOO comfortable, the drivers were falling asleep. So, they adjusted the steering wheels to make them *JUST* less than comfortable, and discovered that it decreased the number and severity of large truck accidents! > Next, the instrument cluster. Whose bright idea was it to bury each gauge > inside a black, 4 1/2 inch long tunnel? You have to have the gauges > backlighted all the time in order to see them. To make matters worse, they > put a strip of bright chrome around the lip of each tube to catch any glint > of sunlight entering the car and redirect it into your eye, making it even > harder to see the instruments. I paint over such chrome with Testor's Dullcoat, a non-glossy clear finish sold by hobby and crafts stores. > I got a 2003 Corolla about 4 1/2 years ago and we just picked up a 2007 > Matrix XR for the wife. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > adjust the seat is about as high off the floor as it is in the Corolla, > which is about 2-3 inches too high for me. I, OTOH, really like the driver's seat height adjustment in my Corolla - I have it at the highest position it'll go. > Next, the instrument cluster. Whose bright idea was it to bury each gauge > inside a black, 4 1/2 inch long tunnel? You have to have the gauges > backlighted all the time in order to see them. To make matters worse, they > put a strip of bright chrome around the lip of each tube to catch any glint > of sunlight entering the car and redirect it into your eye, making it even > harder to see the instruments. This was my main (albeit, it's fairly minor) gripe about the Matrix, & one reason I'd not consider buying it. I found the instrument panel's chrome-colored trim to be a distraction - kept noticing those silver-y circles in lower peripheral vision. Disliked it intensely. A friend bought one a few months ago & loves hers - to each one's own. But I noticed this immediately when I was given a Matrix as a loaner one day. Did you get into the car & take it for a test drive before buying it? Despite these little things that you don't like, the car should drive well & last a l-o-n-g time since it's basically a Corolla in different clothing. Cathy Finally, they f.cked up the speedometer by > only marking the 20s--20, 40, 60, 80, etc. Why? Is it supposed to look > cool? Are multiples of 20 good luck? Is Toyota making a statement against [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > you which tire was low. All it tells you is that one of them is low. > Better than nothing, I guess--saves having to check them every so often. On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 18:23:08 -0700, clfr wrote: > Disliked it intensely. A friend > bought one a few months ago & loves hers - to each one's own. AHA! Is this the prescribed "way around it"? Ya know, to each THEIR own is wrong, and we all know the old saying is, "To each HIS own". I had a friend in an English class, and he was the only male in the class, and it galled the teacher to no end because she had to say, "And I expect everyone to present his assignment on Friday." > On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 18:23:08 -0700, clfr wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > and it galled the teacher to no end because she had to say, "And I expect > everyone to present his assignment on Friday." Why is "their" wrong in that instance? I'm curious because I don't know the particular rule. I ain't never had no learnin' past high school to speak of. Regardless of what the 'accepted' rules of English say, if the rules make it so that the only proper way to say something is a way which causes your meaning to be blurred, then it's allowable to break the rules. An English teacher once said, with tongue firmly in cheek, "Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put!" His point being that when the only options you are aware of are either a proper way to say something which sounds stupid/unclear or a technically improper way which is both commonly used and clearly understood, then screw the rules. He also went on to say if the aforementioned situation occurs, the problem *might* be that you simply don't have an broad enough understanding of the rules. >> On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 18:23:08 -0700, clfr wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Why is "their" wrong in that instance? Indicates a plural possessive pronoun, vs. singular. With a singular - "his" or "her", you (either singular *or* plural, in this case!) are then stuck with deciding between masculine or feminine. But most people ignore the - rather technical - problem & stick to "their", I think. Cathy I'm curious because I don't know the > particular rule. I ain't never had no learnin' past high school to speak > of. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > occurs, the problem *might* be that you simply don't have an broad enough > understanding of the rules. "Cathy F." <clfr@adelphiadot.net> I don't have anything to add here, just... wrote in message news:etmkkn.2pg.1@news.evilcabal.org... Welcome to the Cabal! muhahaha! Natalie > "Cathy F." <clfr@adelphiadot.net> > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Welcome to the Cabal! Merci... ;-) > muhahaha! <g> And more time-wasting! At least when reading & posting through Google I kept it to a bare minimum. Was too *difficult* to spend much time on any ng that way! Cathy > Natalie > Cathy Hey! "CathyF' is back! >> Cathy > > Hey! "CathyF' is back! Yes, thanks to Natalie! I *still* don't know why I can't get this - or a few other ngs - a Giganews anymore; am now going through another server & using my OE newsreader again, instead of the dreaded/PITRA Google Groups. Cathy > "Hachiroku ????" >> >> Hey! "CathyF' is back! > > Yes, thanks to Natalie! Mostly Kev! > I *still* don't know why I can't get this - or a few other ngs - a > Giganews anymore; am now going through another server & using my OE > newsreader again, instead of the dreaded/PITRA Google Groups. > > Cathy You're preaching to the choir. I'd give up NGs altogether if I had to depend on Google. And now your name is spelled correctly. ;-) Natalie >>> On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 18:23:08 -0700, clfr wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > stuck with deciding between masculine or feminine. But most people ignore > the - rather technical - problem & stick to "their", I think. Are either of these correct?: "And I expect all of my students to present their assignments on Friday." "And I expect all of you to present your assignment on Friday." >>>> On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 18:23:08 -0700, clfr wrote: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Are either of these correct?: I'm not an English major, but my takes: > "And I expect all of my students to present their assignments on Friday." Yes, correct. > "And I expect all of you to present your assignment on Friday." Substitute "each" for "all". Cathy >>>>> On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 18:23:08 -0700, clfr wrote: >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Cathy Thanks! :-) >>>>>> On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 18:23:08 -0700, clfr wrote: >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Thanks! :-) You're welcome! I didn't check on this with a friend who *is* an English major, so... Cathy >>>>>>> On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 18:23:08 -0700, clfr wrote: >>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > Cathy So don't bet my life on it being correct? :-) I think you're right though, it makes more sense to say "each." >>>>>>>> On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 18:23:08 -0700, clfr wrote: >>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > So don't bet my life on it being correct? :-) I think you're right > though, it makes more sense to say "each." Aw, to each his own. Getting back to the original topic: My main gripe with my Vibe(the Matrix twin) is the stiff ride. It transmits every bump, ripple, crack in the road to the body and hence passengers. I like a firm ride but this is a bit too much. I'm considering doing something witht the suspension or just replacing the 16" wheels with 15" with 195/65 tires to put a little more rubber between me and the road. On a minor grip my MT has two annoying points: the clutch grabs very early/low which was so hard for me to get used to (i.e. lots of stalls), and the shifter is too "notchy" not as smooth as I hoped a Toyota design would be. But in general i like the Matrix/Vibe design - enough room and power, good driving control and handeling, and decent mpg. --Paul > Getting back to the original topic: > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > --Paul I don't know if things are changed for the Pontiac version, but I love the notchy shifter and the low grab! All the Corollas I have had all acted like that. Just get used to it and be amazed at how easy the gears change! I call my cars "Semi-Automatics", because it's so second nature now I don't even think of it! |
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