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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / February 2008Alternate Fuel Cars
To promote alternate fuel cars, I suggest a $1,000 rebate to everyone who buys such a car. > To promote alternate fuel cars, I suggest a $1,000 rebate to > everyone who buys such a car. Wasn't there a tax credit similar to that until just recently? > To promote alternate fuel cars, I suggest a $1,000 rebate to > everyone who buys such a car. Why do you propose lowering the current US Federal tax credits for AFVs? http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxcenter.shtml > > To promote alternate fuel cars, I suggest a $1,000 rebate to > > everyone who buys such a car. > > Why do you propose lowering the current US Federal tax credits for > AFVs? > http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxcenter.shtml Okay, $1,000 in addition to current tax credits! > To promote alternate fuel cars, I suggest a $1,000 rebate to everyone who > buys such a car. How about $4,000? That's the average tax break on a Prius or Honda Hybrid... >> To promote alternate fuel cars, I suggest a $1,000 rebate to everyone who >> buys such a car. > > How about $4,000? That's the average tax break on a Prius or Honda > Hybrid... When? >>> To promote alternate fuel cars, I suggest a $1,000 rebate to everyone who >>> buys such a car. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > When? I think that's what it was when the tax breaks first went into effect, and the Prius and the Insight were the only models eligible for it. There was limit on the total number of vehicle that could be eligible for the full refund. I went to a lowered amount at a predetermined level as well. If memory serves the total was 90K for any manufacture. Since those that sold them sooner reach the statutory limit sooner. mike >>>> To promote alternate fuel cars, I suggest a $1,000 rebate to everyone >>>> who [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I think that's what it was when the tax breaks first went into effect, and > the Prius and the Insight were the only models eligible for it. >> To promote alternate fuel cars, I suggest a $1,000 rebate to everyone who >> buys such a car. > > How about $4,000? That's the average tax break on a Prius or Honda > Hybrid... Hybrids are not alternate fuel cars. They burn gasoline, just like my Contour. Jeff Why in the world do you think the US government should take money from one taxpayer like you, who may not even be in a position to buy a new car or properly maintain their used car, and give it to another taxpayer to buy a ANY vehicle that burns a fuel that is already heavily subsided, let alone one made in another county, like the Pruis by a company like Toyota, that does not pay a penny in US Corporate taxes? ;) >> To promote alternate fuel cars, I suggest a $1,000 rebate to everyone who >> buys such a car. > > How about $4,000? That's the average tax break on a Prius or Honda > Hybrid... > Why in the world do you think the US government should take money from one > taxpayer like you, who may not even be in a position to buy a new car or > properly maintain their used car, and give it to another taxpayer to buy a > ANY vehicle that burns a fuel that is already heavily subsided, let alone > one made in another county, like the Pruis by a company like Toyota, that > does not pay a penny in US Corporate taxes? ;) So, are you suggesting that we should end the subsidies on gasoline? And what exactly, are the subsidies you are talking about? For income tax, don't the Toyota subsidies pay US income tax and state income tax on the net income the sunsidies make? Those are US companies, but owned by Toyota. Jeff > Why in the world do you think the US government should take money from one > taxpayer like you, who may not even be in a position to buy a new car or > properly maintain their used car, and give it to another taxpayer to buy a > ANY vehicle that burns a fuel that is already heavily subsided, let alone > one made in another county, like the Pruis by a company like Toyota, that > does not pay a penny in US Corporate taxes? ;) Ya know, for once Mike makes sense... >>> To promote alternate fuel cars, I suggest a $1,000 rebate to everyone who >>> buys such a car. >> >> How about $4,000? That's the average tax break on a Prius or Honda >> Hybrid... I pretty much always make sense, it is just that you do not always agree. ;) mike >> Why in the world do you think the US government should take money from >> one [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >>> How about $4,000? That's the average tax break on a Prius or Honda >>> Hybrid... > Why in the world do you think the US government should take money from one > taxpayer like you, who may not even be in a position to buy a new car or > properly maintain their used car, and give it to another taxpayer to buy a > ANY vehicle that burns a fuel that is already heavily subsided, let alone > one made in another county, like the Pruis by a company like Toyota, that > does not pay a penny in US Corporate taxes? ;) I understand that the U.S. provides tax breaks to oil companies. A common misconception, at tax break is not a tax credit. One can only equate to two if they do not understand US tax laws. Allowing a company to accelerate deprecation of a depreciating asset is far different than giving out tax money. I E one has a 5,000 asset that must be depreciated over five years. That means one need not pay taxes, at their particular rate, on 1,000 each year for five years. When one is allowed to chose an accelerated depreciation to increase capital for investment they can take a tax deduction, at their particular rate, in one year off 80% of the assets value rather than 100%.. The result is the taxpayer get a lower but faster deprecation, but must pay taxes on another $1,000, at their particular rate, for the next four years. The federal treasury gets less money the first year, does not give away any money as they do what a tax credit and they get more money, not less, over the same five years. A prime example of how lowering tax RATES can produce more money to the US treasury, are the tax RATE cuts under President Bush. Currently the US treasury is taking in MORE money than it spends and at a rate that is the highest in the history or the county, regardless of what his distracters would have you believe. A tax credit on the other hand is a dollar for dollar reduction in ones tax due that you pass on to the seller in the form of a much higher price for the hybrid. The other is a reduction on the amount of income on which one pays income taxes, at there particular rate.. I E An exemption for a child and a child tax credit. Giving buyers a deduction off income would be better, YOU would actually get a reduction in your tax due, at your particular rate, rather that giving tax dollars to the manufactures. . mike >> Why in the world do you think the US government should take money from >> one [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I understand that the U.S. provides tax breaks to oil companies. > A common misconception, at tax break is not a tax credit. One can only > equate to two if they do not understand US tax laws. Allowing a company to [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > highest in the history or the county, regardless of what his distracters > would have you believe. Why do I keep reading about the Federal government running a deficit? > A tax credit on the other hand is a dollar for dollar reduction in ones tax > due that you pass on to the seller in the form of a much higher price for [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > get a reduction in your tax due, at your particular rate, rather that > giving tax dollars to the manufactures. . I was thinking in terms of the government simply giving people who buy alternate fuel cars $1,000. I got the idea from the proposal to give everyone $100 for gasoline! >> A common misconception, at tax break is not a tax credit. One can only >> equate to two if they do not understand US tax laws. Allowing a company [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Why do I keep reading about the Federal government running a deficit? > Why in the world do you think the US government should take money from one > taxpayer like you, who may not even be in a position to buy a new car or > properly maintain their used car, and give it to another taxpayer to buy a > ANY vehicle that burns a fuel that is already heavily subsided, let alone > one made in another county, like the Pruis by a company like Toyota, that > does not pay a penny in US Corporate taxes? ;) I understand that the U.S. provides tax breaks to oil companies. Sorry Tim bit mike's message didn't show up till your reply. >> Why in the world do you think the US government should take money from >> one [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> one made in another county, like the Pruis by a company like Toyota, that >> does not pay a penny in US Corporate taxes? ;) I don't like alternative fuel vehicles much myself unless it is a BEV. I especially don't like E85 as to me from a math standpoint it roughly equates to buying a diesel car and for every gallon you put in the tank you throw another gallon on a huge bon fire behind the station. The same is true of hydrogen. I also don't like tax breaks as I think that the success or failure of a model should not depend on whether or not it is a partial write off when you buy it. Also the Prius is not an alternative fueled vehicle as it still uses good ol' 87 octane as its one and only source of energy. Hachiroku ??????????? <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote: >> To promote alternate fuel cars, I suggest a $1,000 rebate to everyone who >> buys such a car. > > How about $4,000? That's the average tax break on a Prius or Honda Hybrid... It was around $3000 (depending on model) but later reduced to about $1500 where it stands (on a Prius anyway) until April. The Escape/Mariner hybrid still has a $3000 credit, $2200 for 4WD. The federal income tax credit on a Chevy Silverado 2WD hybrid is a whopping $250. Our $1575 Prius credit was reduced by AMT to around $1300! No doubt due to some boneheaded move by Congress. But I repeat myself. > Hachiroku ??????????? <Tru...@ae86.gts> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Our $1575 Prius credit was reduced by AMT to around $1300! No doubt due to > some boneheaded move by Congress. But I repeat myself. $4000 is the cap for the alt fuel/hybrid tax credit available for 2006, with the actual amount depending on what vehicle, model year, and date that you purchased your vehicle. (For previous years, it was a cap of $2000 for a tax deduction.) See: http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=157557,00.html But the OP was asking about Alt Fuel vehicles. Currently that's just the Honda Civic GX, which gets the max available $4000 credit. There's probably some other modified cars or low-production cars that may also qualify... quoting from: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax_afv.shtml <quote> To be eligible for this tax credit, the vehicle must only be capable of operating on any of the following alternative fuels: Compressed natural gas (CNG) Liquefied natural gas (LNG) Liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) Hydrogen Any liquid at least 85% methanol by volume </quote> Note that flex-fuel (E85) and bi-fuel vehicles do not qualify. Electric Vehicles do qualify, though, with certain other restrictions. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax_ev.shtml > To promote alternate fuel cars, I suggest a $1,000 rebate to > everyone who buys such a car. Why should government get do that? They'll probably just subsidize corn growers (and Archer-Daniels-Midland) and not cut our dependence on foreign energy one bit. > > To promote alternate fuel cars, I suggest a $1,000 rebate to > > everyone who buys such a car. > > Why should government get do that? They'll probably just subsidize > corn growers (and Archer-Daniels-Midland) and not cut our dependence > on foreign energy one bit. But ADM supports public television! >> > To promote alternate fuel cars, I suggest a $1,000 rebate to everyone >> > who buys such a car. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > But ADM supports public television! And Meet the dePRESSed... Yeah, that sounds about right. Take the money from the people trying to make a difference, and give it to ADM to bury. It wouldn't surprize me if they gave it to Exxon=Mobil who would then in turn USE it to bury ADM..."You don't really want to develop grain based fuel now, do you?" I love America. It's politics I hate... ;) The price of corn and its derivative products, are already going way up. mike >> To promote alternate fuel cars, I suggest a $1,000 rebate to >> everyone who buys such a car. > > Why should government get do that? They'll probably just subsidize > corn growers (and Archer-Daniels-Midland) and not cut our dependence > on foreign energy one bit. > The price of corn and its derivative products, are already going way up. Which means that more corn will be planted! Can we assume you skipped all of your economics 101 classes? mike >> The price of corn and its derivative products, are already going way up. > > Which means that more corn will be planted! > Can we assume you skipped all of your economics 101 classes? If you were a corn farmer and the price went way up, wouldn't logic dictate that you plant more corn so as to make more money? >> Can we assume you skipped all of your economics 101 classes? > >If you were a corn farmer and the price went way up, wouldn't logic dictate >that you plant more corn so as to make more money? That's going to depend on what crop you've contracted. Most farmers today don't wait until next spring to decide what to plant, they sign contracts in the fall or early winter for the crop they'll harvest next fall. This commits them to a crop, an amount (number of bushels) and a price. The seed is also sold in the fall or early winter. Jack --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 000724-1, 03/16/2007 Tested on: 3/18/2007 10:48:28 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com > Can we assume you skipped all of your economics 101 classes? If you were a corn farmer and the price went way up, wouldn't logic dictate that you plant more corn so as to make more money? > > To promote alternate fuel cars, I suggest a $1,000 rebate to > > everyone who buys such a car. > > Why should government get do that? They'll probably just subsidize > corn growers (and Archer-Daniels-Midland) and not cut our dependence > on foreign energy one bit. But ADM supports public television! To promote alternate fuel cars, I suggest a $1,000 rebate to everyone who buys such a car. > To promote alternate fuel cars, I suggest a $1,000 rebate to everyone > who buys such a car. I hate those alternate fuel cars. Monday you need petrol, next day you need diesel. Then back to petrol on Wednesday. It's bloody ridiculous. -- Paul Rooney, Founder Member, New Demon.Local "Rooney is one of these vandals and has done his utmost to help trash dl and the other groups which he regularly crossposts to. He's created a false FAQ and charter" - Chris Lawrence in uk.rec.walking "Also long time d.l. reader but never feel robust enough to post much, especially since Rooney wrecked the group." - Rachel Sullivan in uk.rec.walking "Low life scum doesn't even begin to describe you [Rooney]. You are the most loathsome individual ever to cross the threshold of d.l." - John Kaye in demon.local "Your continued posting here with an overlong sig perfectly demonstrates the sort of person you are and is entirely relevant to every other post you make in whatever newsgroup. You're a stupid, boorish, childish, little oik, with no manners, an over-inflated opinion of yourself and nothing that I can see to commend you to anyone...Now f.ck off out of this newsgroup once and for all" - Malcolm Ogilvie to Paul Rooney in demon.local "Those who indulge in chest-beating about how they always win seem to overlook the fact that the so-called sig-abusers always win, too. Usenet is like that. If such meaningless labels are to be pressed into service, then I would say that Paul [Rooney] has won. Not only by his undoubted stamina, but by the sustained grace, charm, and mischievous wit of his responses." - James Follett, novelist (writing in the newsgroup demon.local) On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 07:36:18 -0800 (PST), in alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, "Paul {Hamilton Rooney}" <PaulVRooney@gmail.com> bloviated: >> To promote alternate fuel cars, I suggest a $1,000 rebate to everyone >> who buys such a car. > >I hate those alternate fuel cars. Monday you need petrol, next day you >need diesel. Then back to petrol on Wednesday. It's bloody ridiculous. HAH Luxury. Try to find a tank of hydrogen when you need it. > On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 07:36:18 -0800 (PST), in > alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, "Paul {Hamilton Rooney}" [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Luxury. > Try to find a tank of hydrogen when you need it. Somewhere in the Pacific Ocean there's one, courtesy of a failed American space probe, or somesuch military shenanigan. Shouldn't be too difficult to locate. But who the hell drinks hydrogen? On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:26:09 -0800 (PST), in alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, "Paul {Hamilton Rooney}" <PaulVRooney@gmail.com> bloviated: >> On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 07:36:18 -0800 (PST), in >> alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, "Paul {Hamilton Rooney}" [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >But who the hell drinks hydrogen? Life forms on Jupiter and the Tykes. >> On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 07:36:18 -0800 (PST), in >> alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, "Paul {Hamilton Rooney}" [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > But who the hell drinks hydrogen? Aarrrgh, you be right there, Cap'n Paul, lad, NOBODY drinks hydrogen, though I do be a bit partial to a drop o' Gordon's Gin, Plymouth Gin, Jenevre Gin, BUT NO BLOODY HYDROGIN!!!!1!!!!  SignatureBlackbeard "I get a really good laugh when I think of how much of their time we are wasting. It only takes an off-the-cuff one liner from any one of the intelligentsia in u.l.s and the passed-its-sell-by-date Chief Collard and his ADC (Another Dozy c.nt) DribblingBuffoon01 spend hours thinking up a response, and even then they can only come up with mindless bollocks. It's like having radio controlled muppets at your disposal. Push their little buttons and watch them go. Too funny!" - Dave The Fat Sarge in uls. "There was no wrecks and nobody drownded, in fact nothing to laff at, at all" - Stanley Holloway [Lion & Albert] >> To promote alternate fuel cars, I suggest a $1,000 rebate to everyone >> who buys such a car. [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > - > James Follett, novelist (writing in the newsgroup demon.local) Aarrrgh, Ji8m, lad, or mebbe Paul, Lad, or whoever the f.ck I'm replyin' to we don't use no cars for we be pirates and we use piratical stuff to get around like sedan chairs and rickshaws and stuff and sometimes if we're reely pushed we just climb on a old "novelists" back and whip him like a mule. Aarrrgh, them be the best days. SignatureBlackbeard "I get a really good laugh when I think of how much of their time we are wasting. It only takes an off-the-cuff one liner from any one of the intelligentsia in u.l.s and the passed-its-sell-by-date Chief Collard and his ADC (Another Dozy c.nt) DribblingBuffoon01 spend hours thinking up a response, and even then they can only come up with mindless bollocks. It's like having radio controlled muppets at your disposal. Push their little buttons and watch them go. Too funny!" - Dave The Fat Sarge in uls. "There was no wrecks and nobody drownded, in fact nothing to laff at, at all" - Stanley Holloway [Lion & Albert] Fat chance! The conventually powered cars are the only ones offering rebates. Alternatives are sold at a premium to those that think they can save the world. LOL > To promote alternate fuel cars, I suggest a $1,000 rebate to everyone > who buys such a car. > Fat chance! The conventually powered cars are the only ones offering > rebates. Alternatives are sold at a premium to those that think they can > save the world. LOL I suggest a $1,000 rebate from the government for alternate fuel cars! >> Fat chance! The conventually powered cars are the only ones offering >> rebates. Alternatives are sold at a premium to those that think they can >> save the world. LOL > >I suggest a $1,000 rebate from the government for alternate fuel cars! What the h--- is an alternative fuel car? Is that one of those things that run on corn juice or french fry grease? >>> Fat chance! The conventually powered cars are the only ones offering >>> rebates. Alternatives are sold at a premium to those that think they [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > What the h--- is an alternative fuel car? Is that one of those things > that run on corn juice or french fry grease? Mine runs on James Follett books. They are so full of shite they really do give a lot of boooomph for the BS. (Please do try to keep JFs books out of landfill sites to avoid any unnatural disasters.) SignatureBlackbeard "I've now had a chance to read the appropriate section in Mr Follett's draft Tavvie paper on hate. I've been asked to referee some parts of the paper on group dynamics and have decided to volunteer a few comments on the interesting behaviour of his Easynews stalker. I've submitted my findings to Mr Follett. As soon as I have his permission to reproduce my comments I'll be pleased to do so on some Usenet newsgroups where regular contributors may be puzzled by the stalker's seeming compulsive obsession with Mr. Follett and , to a lesser extent with Mr. Dave Pepper -- a frequent contributor to the surrey newsgroup in the uk hierachy." - Richard Christopher. RNIB Redhill. Posting to Usenet since 1997. "Arrrrgh, Jim, lad, ye be too set in your ways to try and hide your posting style now." - Blackbeard > On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:26:09 -0800 (PST), in > alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, "Paul {Hamilton Rooney}" [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > - Show quoted text - By Jove! |
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