12V power or the 115VAC output

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Leythos - 28 May 2007 00:48 GMT

I have a 2007 4Runner Limited and own a 2000W inverter that I used in my
Dakota Quad 20A 12V outlet (using a cig adapter) to power my laptop when
I'm on the road - BOTH 12v outlets fail to provide enough V under load to
keep the V at above 10.5V, the 115VAC outlet does not provide enough to
power my AC Adapter for my laptop.

So, now I'm stuck with needing a 50A run from the battery to a new jack
in the back and and new one in the front of the vehicle, or to replace
the 115VAC inverter with mine (not even sure if that's possible...

So, what is everyone else doing to get 115VAC to run a computer device or
something that needs 150W?

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Leythos
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ZR - 28 May 2007 01:10 GMT

> I have a 2007 4Runner Limited and own a 2000W inverter that I used in my
> Dakota Quad 20A 12V outlet (using a cig adapter) to power my laptop when
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> So, what is everyone else doing to get 115VAC to run a computer device or
> something that needs 150W?

Not sure what type of laptop you have, my Toshiba consumes 70-80W and I have
no problem powering it using a 400W converter off of the cig outlet. Most
cig outlets in Toyota provides 10A 12V at 120W. If your laptop takes less
than 120W, I'd guess your 2000W converter is taking too much juice itself.

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Tegger - 28 May 2007 01:34 GMT

> I have a 2007 4Runner Limited and own a 2000W inverter that I used in
> my Dakota Quad 20A 12V outlet (using a cig adapter) to power my laptop
> when I'm on the road - BOTH 12v outlets fail to provide enough V under
> load to keep the V at above 10.5V, the 115VAC outlet does not provide
> enough to power my AC Adapter for my laptop.

So you're saying your laptop's adapter is supposed to output 10.5V? At what
amperage?

> So, what is everyone else doing to get 115VAC to run a computer device
> or something that needs 150W?

150W?! What kind of laptop is this? Mine only draws 90W, and I'm fine with
a forty-dollar 175W inverter.

I think most of the cigarette lighters out there will only handle 120W
regardless of the thing that's plugged into it.

What output voltage and amps does your adapter say on it?

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Tegger

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Leythos - 28 May 2007 01:59 GMT

>> I have a 2007 4Runner Limited and own a 2000W inverter that I used in
>> my Dakota Quad 20A 12V outlet (using a cig adapter) to power my laptop
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> So you're saying your laptop's adapter is supposed to output 10.5V? At
> what amperage?

No, it's 19V at 7.5A, adapter states 120V/150W AC side.

>> So, what is everyone else doing to get 115VAC to run a computer device
>> or something that needs 150W?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> What output voltage and amps does your adapter say on it?

Laptop has Dual HD, 17" Wide Screen, Verizon BB wireless card, and a
regular P4/3.2ghz CPU (not the mobile P4) with 2GB RAM. The adapter is
150W, this is a mobile workstation - beast of a laptop, but it's what I
run Windows 2003 Standard on with SQL 2005 and Exchange, and I swap other
drives as needed for the OS I need.

When the laptop is fully charged I can run it most of the time.

I've been doing research and found that in order to get more than 180W
out of most cars I need to go direct to the battery - so, and this is
gonna cost me, I'm going to check on getting heavy cable installed and
jacks for the front/back of the vehicle so I can use it in either
location. The 2000W inverter was only $65, but I didn't count on the cig
lighters not being able to provide enough power without the drop.

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Tegger - 28 May 2007 02:43 GMT

>>> I have a 2007 4Runner Limited and own a 2000W inverter that I used
>>> in my Dakota Quad 20A 12V outlet (using a cig adapter) to power my
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> No, it's 19V at 7.5A, adapter states 120V/150W AC side.

Yep. Approx 145W. I'd have to check for sure, but I think that's well
past what the cig lighter socket can provide.

Even if the circuit is fused high enough, the socket itself may not be
able to provide the maximum amperage the fuse is capable of allowing.

You got lucky with the Dakota.

>>> So, what is everyone else doing to get 115VAC to run a computer
>>> device or something that needs 150W?
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> When the laptop is fully charged I can run it most of the time.

Battery life is a real problem. I've got a newer Acer. The battery only
lasts about an hour and a half when I'm running big apps, hence my need
for the inverter. And even then, I need to run the car to make sure I
don't drain the starting battery.

> I've been doing research and found that in order to get more than 180W
> out of most cars I need to go direct to the battery - so, and this is
> gonna cost me, I'm going to check on getting heavy cable installed and
> jacks for the front/back of the vehicle so I can use it in either
> location.

That looks like your only option.

Might be worth it for any other mobile users following this to check the
wattage of any laptop they're thinking of buying to make sure it's under
120W.

> The 2000W inverter was only $65, but I didn't count on the
> cig lighters not being able to provide enough power without the drop.

Not something I would have thought to look for either. Before I had a
laptop, that is. I got lucky with the Acer's requirements being fairly
gentle.

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Tegger

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Bruce L. Bergman - 28 May 2007 07:48 GMT

>>>> I have a 2007 4Runner Limited and own a 2000W inverter that I used
>>>> in my Dakota Quad 20A 12V outlet (using a cig adapter) to power my
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>Yep. Approx 145W. I'd have to check for sure, but I think that's well
>past what the cig lighter socket can provide.

For more than a minute or two at a time, yes - you'll blow the
lighter fuse in the fusebox, and if you do this repeatedly you can
blow the thermal protector in the back of the lighter socket.

>Even if the circuit is fused high enough, the socket itself may not be
>able to provide the maximum amperage the fuse is capable of allowing.
>
>You got lucky with the Dakota.

Some cars and trucks are coming with heavier "Accessory Power
Sockets" that are fused at 25A or 30A - but even that isn't nearly
enough for a 2KW inverter. They normally want them fused at 125A to
150A. The start surge when you power it up is nasty, and the idling
current losses are going to be around 100W alone, before you add in
any load current...

If you want to run a 2KW inverter you have to go back to the
battery, just to cover the start surge if nothing else. And if you
use much more than just the laptop, you are also going to have to go
for a larger alternator, charging isolator, second D-C battery...

>Might be worth it for any other mobile users following this to check the
>wattage of any laptop they're thinking of buying to make sure it's under
>120W.

I would avoid the step of going up to 120VAC at all costs. See if
you can find a DC-DC converter to go straight from the 11.5 - 15.5VDC
of the car up to the 19VDC @7.5A you need. Save the conversion losses
from one step.

120W may be enough to handle the laptop, since it's only going to
surge to 145W when the hard drive and CD drive are spinning, etc.
I'll bet the average load is lower, though the 120W supply may not
leave anything past operating draw to use for battery charging.

Call the makers of the laptop, and see if they have a lead on a
DC-DC converter that's heavy enough for your needs. I have a
Kensington unit rated at 120W just by convection cooling, and you
might be able to push it further if you scab a small 12V muffin fan
onto the case and open up vent holes a bit.

Depending on the internal design, they may have to build you a
"Special" unit with adjustable current limiting, with forced air
cooling added I'd guess it could push 145W without any problems.

I used to go through DC-DC converters for my 1st-generation Technics
P-5 portable CD player literally monthly, and they ran hotter than a
$3 pistol before they died. I stuck a 1.5" x 1/2" muffin fan on one
of them, and that one ran for years - still works (if I can find it).

--<< Bruce >>--

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Leythos - 28 May 2007 12:50 GMT

>>>>> I have a 2007 4Runner Limited and own a 2000W inverter that I used
>>>>> in my Dakota Quad 20A 12V outlet (using a cig adapter) to power my
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
> pistol before they died. I stuck a 1.5" x 1/2" muffin fan on one of
> them, and that one ran for years - still works (if I can find it).

Bruce (and Tegger): While I don't need anywhere near the rated 2K power
from the inverter I currently own, it was cheap and I figured it was a
reasonable thing to have based on the load it could handle - I wanted
something that was rated for double what I needed for the laptop, but the
price for the 2KW was right.

I see now that I made a mistake in thinking I could use it and the laptop
in a standard cig lighter outlet - I just expected that all cig lighter
outlets would provide 20A power as a standard (since my Dakota did - and
I traded the Dakota for the 4Runner)....

So, while I don't need 2KW I think I'm going to visit one of those audio
shops and have them run some #4 wire to the back of the vehicle, inside,
and then install some form of socket/connector to the inside where I can
connect/disconnect as needed. I found a 4Runner group where they show the
location of the factory inverter, I'm not going to mount mine there, mine
has a small fan and it will need air-flow, but I may have the factory one
replaced later this year with something that does 200W.

So, now all I need to do is find a shop that can do the work without
screwing up my 4Runner. I also need to determine if I'm going to mount it
perm/semi-perm inside the vehicle or if I'm going to have some form of
connector to connect it to.

Thanks to everyone for their input on this.

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Must be Me - 28 May 2007 14:26 GMT

>I have a 2007 4Runner Limited and own a 2000W inverter that I used in my
>Dakota Quad 20A 12V outlet (using a cig adapter) to power my laptop when
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>So, what is everyone else doing to get 115VAC to run a computer device or
>something that needs 150W?

Something's not right here. You say you have a 2,000 watt inverter
that is designed to run on a lighter socket? A 2,000 watt inverter
would draw over 200 amps at 12vdc under full load. That's one H--- of
a current draw from a lighter socket.

Go to Wall Mart and buy an inverter rated at 200 watts or so. That
should power your laptop with no problem.

Jack

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Leythos - 28 May 2007 14:56 GMT

>>I have a 2007 4Runner Limited and own a 2000W inverter that I used in my
>>Dakota Quad 20A 12V outlet (using a cig adapter) to power my laptop when
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> draw over 200 amps at 12vdc under full load. That's one H--- of a
> current draw from a lighter socket.

No, I said I have a 2KW inverter, that I used it in my Dakota to run my
laptop. I never said I use it at rated capacity.

> Go to Wall Mart and buy an inverter rated at 200 watts or so. That
> should power your laptop with no problem.

My impression is that cig lighter outlets are rated for about 180W, but I
can't find anything on the 4Runner rating yet (not looked in the manual
yet, yea, I know, RTFM :)

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Jeff Strickland - 28 May 2007 15:47 GMT

Tthe inverter you have will drive a microwave oven! Why don't you get a
smaller one that is better suited to supply the intended load?

I run a 400w inverter for hours and hours in my parked Bronco. I use it to
charge the batteries on my cordless tools.

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Leythos - 28 May 2007 16:23 GMT

>> I have a 2007 4Runner Limited and own a 2000W inverter that I used in
>> my Dakota Quad 20A 12V outlet (using a cig adapter) to power my laptop
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> I run a 400w inverter for hours and hours in my parked Bronco. I use it
> to charge the batteries on my cordless tools.

I'm well aware of what it's capable of, and you would be aware of why I
bought it if you had read the entire contents of my posts - it was cheap,
as cheap as one of the small units. It also worked fine in my TRUCK that
I traded in on the 4Runner.

The fact that your Bronco cig lighter outlet supports your 400w inverter
means nothing - my Dakota supported the inverter just fine. In case you
missed it, this is a TOYOTA group, so, unless you're running your 400w
inverter in a 4Runner you're not doing me much help stating the obvious
things.

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Must be Me - 29 May 2007 17:02 GMT

>>> I have a 2007 4Runner Limited and own a 2000W inverter that I used in
>>> my Dakota Quad 20A 12V outlet (using a cig adapter) to power my laptop
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>inverter in a 4Runner you're not doing me much help stating the obvious
>things.

Okay Leythos. Just pointing out that 200 amps from a lighter socket
is a little unrealistic and the inverter either shouldn't have been
supplied with a cigarette lighter plug or it really isn't a 2kw output
inverter.

Depending on the inverter circuit design, the idle current could very
well be over the max current draw from your 4Runner's socket. It
looks to me like you have two choices, run a line from directly from
your battery to your inverter or get a smaller capacity inverter. You
can get a very nice 200 watt inverter for around $40 that will power
your laptop without overloading your power socket.

From your responses to mine and other's suggestions, it appears that
you don't want to do either. So we can't help you.

Jack

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Jeff - 29 May 2007 17:13 GMT

>>>> I have a 2007 4Runner Limited and own a 2000W inverter that I used in
>>>> my Dakota Quad 20A 12V outlet (using a cig adapter) to power my laptop
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> can get a very nice 200 watt inverter for around $40 that will power
> your laptop without overloading your power socket.

Or, alternatively, you should be able to buy an adapter for your
computer than plugs into the cigarette lighter plug so you won't need an
inverter. I can get one for around $80 from HP for my computer or one
that is both AC and DC for around $120.

That is the best and easiest solution.

Jeff

> From your responses to mine and other's suggestions, it appears that
> you don't want to do either. So we can't help you.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
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