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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / May 2007Help! car eating a lot of oil.
2001 Toyota Corolla CE, 1.8L, AT, 124,000 miles. For the past two years or so (40 K miles worth), the car has been eating about 1Q of oil every 1 thousand miles. So I've been just checking the oil regurarly, and adding it as necessary (5W-30 dino.) Would this kind of oil consumption be considered borderline 'normal'? Several months ago, I had the car looked at by an indepedendent mechanic (Charley's Garage in Boulder, CO - specializes in Jap autos; highly recommended by many locals), but he didn't find any problems. There are no visible oil leaks, no smoke coming out of the tail pipe. The car passed Colorado emmissions about a year ago (though I don't know if it would today :) This is my wife's car, she only drives it around the city, and she's a pretty careful and conservative driver. Usual speeds: 30-50mph. Over this past Memorial Day weekend, we went on a road trip from Denver to New Mexico. We did about 1,200 miles in three days, and it was mostly highway driving at freeway speeds - 65-80mph. To my great surprize and frustration, I had to ad 5 quarts of oil during our trip - 1Q every 240 miles, on the average. What could have caused such a big jump in oil consumption? Is it possible that the car eats more oil at higher speeds/higher rpms? I am going to have the car checked by a mechanic this week, but I wanted to hear your opinions. TIA > 2001 Toyota Corolla CE, 1.8L, AT, 124,000 miles. > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > TIA Your car is consuming oil at an unusually high rate. Loss is either by consumption or leakage. Did Charley's inspect the spark plugs, cooling system, inside of tail pipe, emissions test, inspect the O2 sensors, ect.? Do you notice any sign of oil where the vehicle is parked? Do you notice any on the ground after running the car parked at operating temperature? Adding five quarts in twelve hundred miles is quite a bit IMHO, there will be a clue somewhere as to where the oil is going. >> 2001 Toyota Corolla CE, 1.8L, AT, 124,000 miles. >> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > Adding five quarts in twelve hundred miles is quite a bit IMHO, there will > be a clue somewhere as to where the oil is going. Agreed, this is 'way too much oil disappearing, and if it's not coming out the tailpipe as smoke, it's sure going somewhere....as has been suggested. An engine that spews it out at high rpm's such as highway driving is definitely faulty, and a careful examination should reveal where it's going. Good luck! On Mon, 28 May 2007 23:40:21 -0700, bubbabubbs wrote: > 2001 Toyota Corolla CE, 1.8L, AT, 124,000 miles. > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > TIA Now, most of my experience with Toyotas involves 80's models, but I did have this happen on three Toyotas. Check the engine bay and underneath the car for oil spray. What had happened to three of my Corollas was the oil pan bolts worked loose, and the engine would spray oil under operating conditions. Carefully check the torque on the oil pan bolts to see if they are tight enough. I had an 80 that was using oil at an alarming rate after 80,000 mile, and this was the culprit. Also an '85 doing the same thing. > 2001 Toyota Corolla CE, 1.8L, AT, 124,000 miles. > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > TIA That is definitely NOT normal. Take it to another mechanic. For comparison purposes, I own a 2002 Tacoma, 60k miles. I still have the first quart of oil I bought when the truck was new. I've used half the quart. My son's got a '96 Camry with 90k miles. It's used 1/2 quart since he bought the car, and he's put 15k miles on it. Three Toyotas we've owned in the past have been similar, in terms of almost zero oil use. bubbabubbs wrote: > surprize and frustration, I had to ad 5 quarts of oil during our trip > - 1Q every 240 miles, on the average. What could have caused such a check oil pressure sending switch, normally a $7 part that sits immediately by oil filter housing the o-ring may have failed and would spray oil only at high rpm conditions but leave no visible residue > bubbabubbs wrote: >> surprize and frustration, I had to ad 5 quarts of oil during our trip [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the o-ring may have failed and would spray oil only at high rpm conditions > but leave no visible residue IIRC, the oil pressure sending switch has a tapered pipe thread and does not use an O-ring. The housing itself may be leaking, although at the rate the OP mentioned, there should be signs of leaks like oil on the ground.  SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) On May 28, 11:40 pm, bubbabu...@yahoo.com wrote: > 2001 Toyota Corolla CE, 1.8L, AT, 124,000 miles. > quarts of oil during our trip > - 1Q every 240 miles, on the average. If the inside of the valve cover is coated with soft black deposits, check PCV. Otherwise it could be valve seals. VW claimed 200 miles a qt. was normal, until the EPA forced them to issue a recall. On May 29, 2:40 am, bubbabu...@yahoo.com wrote: > 2001 Toyota Corolla CE, 1.8L, AT, 124,000 miles. > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > TIA http://www.pzlqs.com/Tech/Bulletin/QuakerState/General/pdf/g11.pdf http://home.mindspring.com/~ed_white/id8.html Ed > On May 29, 2:40 am, bubbabu...@yahoo.com wrote: >> 2001 Toyota Corolla CE, 1.8L, AT, 124,000 miles. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > http://www.pzlqs.com/Tech/Bulletin/QuakerState/General/pdf/g11.pdf > http://home.mindspring.com/~ed_white/id8.html Interesting writing, but there is no way you can suggest that the OP's situation is normal. If he was talking about a Dodge mini-van, then maybe. But not a late model Toyota. <...> > Interesting writing, but there is no way you can suggest that the OP's > situation is normal. If he was talking about a Dodge mini-van, then maybe. > But not a late model Toyota. Dodge minivans are actually one of the best selling vehicles. They're not bad. Even if they were a bad vehicle, drinking that much oil (if the car wants to _eat_ oil, it is called "coal") is not normal. Jeff > <...> > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Jeff The sales figures are in no way related to the unique stench and smoke I see while driving behind many of them, and I'm not talking about ancient ones either. >> http://www.pzlqs.com/Tech/Bulletin/QuakerState/General/pdf/g11.pdf >> http://home.mindspring.com/~ed_white/id8.html > > Interesting writing, but there is no way you can suggest that the OP's > situation is normal. If he was talking about a Dodge mini-van, then maybe. > But not a late model Toyota. No, it is not normal. I was suggesting that the car is using a lot of oil all the time, but it is being masked by blow-by. When he runs it harder on a long trip, the blow-by products evaporate and the true level of oil consumption is revealed. Ed > Interesting writing, but there is no way you can suggest that the OP's > situation is normal. If he was talking about a Dodge mini-van, then maybe. Horse sh.t, unless the Dodge had the Mitsubishi 3.0 engine! > But not a late model Toyota. If it falls in the "sludge monster" years, then its no surprise at all. On May 29, 2:40 am, bubbabu...@yahoo.com wrote: > 2001ToyotaCorollaCE, 1.8L, AT, 124,000 miles. > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > TIA Sounds to me like a leak .probably the oil pan gasket , or timing chain cover. A quart every 240 miles ? You would be laying down a smoke screen if it burned that much and prrobably get pulled over for poluting Ed > Sounds to me like a leak .probably the oil pan gasket , or timing > chain cover. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Ed I don't think so. A working catalytic converter should be able to handle a quart every 240 miles - at least for a while - particularly if the engine is as worn out as I suspect. In addition to the oil, there is a lot of energy going out the exhaust, feeding the converter and keeping it good an hot, allowing it to handle the oil. The "sudden" increase in consumption on a trip is a classic symptom of an engine with worn compression rings. Of course there probably are leaks. If the compression rings are shot, the crankcase pressure goes up and oil is forced out of every seal and through the PCV system. Ed >> Sounds to me like a leak .probably the oil pan gasket , or timing >> chain cover. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Ed A Toyota engine with 124k miles is usually not "worn out", unless it's been abused. My 1982 Tercel ran perfectly and used no oil whatsoever, with almost 200k miles on it. >A Toyota engine with 124k miles is usually not "worn out", unless it's been >abused. My 1982 Tercel ran perfectly and used no oil whatsoever, with almost >200k miles on it. The sad thing, though, is that a _lot_ of people badly abuse their cars. I got 280k miles on a Corolla myself, but I also broke the engine in properly and changed the oil religiously. Too many folks don't do either, and around 100k is when their folly begins to show itself. (The fact that the things can run that long _without_ proper maintenance is a testament to their design.) --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > A Toyota engine with 124k miles is usually not "worn out", unless > it's been abused. My 1982 Tercel ran perfectly and used no oil > whatsoever, with almost 200k miles on it. There is no way your engine doesn't use oil. The design nature of piston engines guarantees that some oil is consumed. You are confusing no change in the level shown on the dip stick with a lack of oil consumption. I had a very old tractor that actually "made" oil between changes. For grins, send off a sample of oil for analysis at your next oil change. I imagine it will show considerable contamination. This doesn't mean the engine is worn out, just that it is normal. One of the ways Toyota is able to obtain outstanding gas mileage numbers is through the use of low tension piston rings. Less friction, better economy, less wear, all good things. But this also means more blow-by under some conditions (not so good). It is my unproved belief that Toyota does a very good job of controlling bore diameter. This means they can also specify tighter tolerances on the piston rings. This allows for lower tension rings. Old American engines were not as carefully made and they specified stiffer rings to compensate for less control over the bore diameter. This resulted in more friction, poorer fuel economy, blah, blah, blah. The down side of using lower tension rings is that if you don't care for your engine, ring and bore wear can rapidly reduce the tension to the point that blow-by becomes a problem - leading to sludge, excessive oil burning, etc. I've never actually worn out a car or light truck engine. I think the most miles I can verify on any vehicle I've personally owned was 150k. We have an old Dodge D600 Truck on my farm with a broken odometer that may have more miles, but who knows. At least for me, it has never been engine failure that induced me to replace a car. Now farm tractors are a different matter. I have one tractor that has so much blow-by if pushes oil out of every crack it can find - and the tractor just has an old road draft tube instead of a PCV valve. The engine probably could stand a rebuild, but with today's prices, it is not worth the money. Ed >> A Toyota engine with 124k miles is usually not "worn out", unless it's >> been abused. My 1982 Tercel ran perfectly and used no oil whatsoever, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > engines guarantees that some oil is consumed. You are confusing no change > in the level shown on the dip stick with a lack of oil consumption. I'm confusing nothing. And, I was exaggerating just slightly. When you buy a quart of oil as a gift for your new car, and it's only 1/4 gone three years later, that's as good as nothing, especially compared to what the OP is describing. See what I'm saying? 1/4 of a quart. 8 ounces. Three years. 200k miles. > >> A Toyota engine with 124k miles is usually not "worn out", unless it's > >> been abused. My 1982 Tercel ran perfectly and used no oil whatsoever, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > describing. See what I'm saying? 1/4 of a quart. 8 ounces. Three years. > 200k miles. The fact that you didn't add any oil doesn't mean your engine isn't using oil. Have a sample checked. Even if your engine is in perfect condition, after 3000 miles, more than 2% is something other than the original oil (water, unburned hyrdocarbons, sut, etc.). For a severly worn engine the percentage of other stuff can be significant. Think about it, if your oil control ring scrapped the cylinder walls dry, what would lubricate the compression rings? If the valve seals were perfect, how long do you think dry valve stems would last? If a little oil didn't coat the seals and escape, how long would they last? What is that stuff coating the inside of the PCV lines and fittings? Oil is constantly being consumed in order to keep pistons, rings, valves, and seals lubricated. Some oil escapes via the PCV system. The amount might be small, but it is not zero. Engines that show no change in the oil level are still using oil, they are just replacing the oil consumed with stuff that escapes past the piston rings. I've had plenty of engines that never need oil added between changes. Nothng special in that. I've also had engines that needed a quart added between changes. That never worried me either. I just took a sample from my SO 2007 RAV4 when I changed the oil. I'll be curious to see the level of contmaination. It should be low, but the oil was a nasty black color. This is something that I wonder about. I've had a few cars that will turn the oil black in just a thousand miles or less. Other cars (in particular a Saturn Vue I owned) seem to keep the oil much cleaner. I don't know if this is a result of the PCV system, or the oil filtration. Ed >> >> A Toyota engine with 124k miles is usually not "worn out", unless it's >> >> been abused. My 1982 Tercel ran perfectly and used no oil whatsoever, [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > Ed Question: Is 8 ounces less than 12 gallons? I'm honestly not sure, so I'm looking for your expert answer. > >> >> A Toyota engine with 124k miles is usually not "worn out", unless it's > >> >> been abused. My 1982 Tercel ran perfectly and used no oil whatsoever, [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I am missing your point. I never said your car was buring a lot of oil. I just pointed out your car is burning some oil, even if you don't actually add any. Excessive oil consumption defintinely indicates there is a problem. The reverse is not necessarily true. It is possible that your engine is in really bad condition, even if you aren't adding oil, but I suspect this is not true in your case. What qualifies as excessive oil consumption is subject to debate. I am sure Toyota has a specification for this. I don't know what it is, but figure it is somewhere in the 1 quart per 1000 to 3000 mile range. It is defeinitely not 1 qt per 240 miles. This is excessive in anyones book. Ed > On May 29, 2:40 am, bubbabu...@yahoo.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > A quart every 240 miles ? You would be laying down a smoke screen if > it burned that much and prrobably get pulled over for poluting I disagree, and suspect it is being burned steadily, and the smoke is being suppressed by the catlyst. If it were *leaking* that much, there'd be a film of oil all over the underside of the car and even on the rear end where the air from under the car recirculates. I've had MUCH smaller oil leaks than that leave oil freckles all over the back of a car. On May 29, 12:40 am, bubbabu...@yahoo.com wrote: > 2001 Toyota Corolla CE, 1.8L, AT, 124,000 miles. > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > TIA Thanks a lot for all of your feedback. I am taking the car to a shop tomorrow, and will post the findings/results. One more thing I forgot to mention: The acceleration is sluggish from a full stop. No way I can spin the wheels on dry pavement, which I should be able to do even with this moderately-powered car (not that I would _want_ to spin the wheels for fun.) I've been meaning to have the mechanic check that as well. Could that be a spark plug problem, which could be contributing to the oil consumption problem? Cheers > One more thing I forgot to mention: The acceleration is sluggish from > a full stop. No way I can spin the wheels on dry pavement, which I > should be able to do even with this moderately-powered car (not that I > would _want_ to spin the wheels for fun.) I've been meaning to have > the mechanic check that as well. Could that be a spark plug problem, > which could be contributing to the oil consumption problem? More like the other way around - spark plugs tend to foul in engines that burn oil. > On May 29, 12:40 am, bubbabu...@yahoo.com wrote: >> 2001 Toyota Corolla CE, 1.8L, AT, 124,000 miles. [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Cheers My guess is that your engine is worn out. A compression test will probably reveal low compression. Ed > 2001 Toyota Corolla CE, 1.8L, AT, 124,000 miles. > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > TIA A quart per 1,000 miles is considered acceptable for warranty purposes. If you are using 1 quart per 240 miles, the engine has a problem somewhere. If it has not been regularly maintained, the rings could be stuck or worn. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) On May 29, 10:01 pm, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote: > A quart per 1,000 miles is considered acceptable for warranty purposes. If > you are using 1 quart per 240 miles, the engine has a problem somewhere. If > it has not been regularly maintained, the rings could be stuck or worn. If it's the worn rings, how much would that cost to get fixed? > On May 29, 10:01 pm, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > If it's the worn rings, how much would that cost to get fixed? The cost to repair worn rings varies by shop and local labor rate, but my wild guess is somewhere between $500 and $1,000. Unfortunately, if the rings got worn due to extended oil change intervals, there is a good chance that the crankshaft, rod, and camshaft bearings will also be worn, in which case a replacement engine may be less expensive. I'd start by looking for an oil leak. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > On May 29, 10:01 pm, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > If it's the worn rings, how much would that cost to get fixed? Complete engine tear-down and overhaul- might as well do everything while its that far apart. On the order of $2k, depending on whether the block is so badly ridged that you need a re-bore and oversized pistons as well (likely, given oil consumption this high). >>2001 Toyota Corolla CE, 1.8L, AT, 124,000 miles. >> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > A quart per 1,000 miles is considered acceptable for warranty purposes. True, but that's not engineering-based, its a$$-covering auto company accountant based. If a small-displacement v6 or 4-cylinder really does burn that much, its got SERIOUS problems. A quart per 1k miles is marginal even for a big-bore v8. People forget that *all* engines burn a little oil, and the normal amount burned is directly proportional to the surface area of the cylinder walls. More cylinders and bigger-diameter cylinders means that the normal oil consumption is higher. |
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