Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / June 2007
What a Pity it is that We Can't Take Advantage of Iran's Inner Turmoil
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dh - 23 Jun 2007 19:43 GMT http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/world/middleeast/24iran.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
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larry moe 'n curly - 23 Jun 2007 23:47 GMT > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/world/middleeast/24iran.html?_r=1&h... Nobody in our civilian national leadership is smart enough to seize the moment. After all, this is the same team that let the opportunity presented in Afghanistan in 12/2006 to slip by unnoticed.
Scott in Florida - 24 Jun 2007 00:29 GMT >> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/world/middleeast/24iran.html?_r=1&h... > >Nobody in our civilian national leadership is smart enough to seize >the moment. After all, this is the same team that let the opportunity >presented in Afghanistan in 12/2006 to slip by unnoticed. Hey liberal coward.....we are fighting Iran as we speak...
By the way what are YOU doing to support our fight against terrorists?
 Signature Scott in Florida There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators.
Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)
mack - 24 Jun 2007 02:13 GMT >>> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/world/middleeast/24iran.html?_r=1&h... >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Hey liberal coward.....we are fighting Iran as we speak... Unless you're privy to something the rest of us are unaware of, how do you figure we're fighting Iran as we speak?
Unlike Joe Lieberman and McCain who think we ought to just 'bomb bomb bomb Iran' , I've actually seen a map of Iran and looked up its population. It's five times the size of Iraq and with three times the population. If you think we're in trouble in Iraq, going after Iran at this juncture would be like a guy who's been annoyed by a couple of mosquitos and knocks down a hornet nest in his anger. not smart. But I'm certain some folks in the Pentagon would love to see it happen....it'd save their jobs.
Scott in Florida - 24 Jun 2007 02:17 GMT >>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/world/middleeast/24iran.html?_r=1&h... >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Unless you're privy to something the rest of us are unaware of, how do you >figure we're fighting Iran as we speak? Read, coward, read....
>Unlike Joe Lieberman and McCain who think we ought to just 'bomb bomb bomb >Iran' , I've actually seen a map of Iran and looked up its population. It's [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >down a hornet nest in his anger. not smart. But I'm certain some folks >in the Pentagon would love to see it happen....it'd save their jobs. Ever hear of the Air Force and Naval Aviation?
Iran will be quick and easy.
 Signature Scott in Florida There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators.
Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)
mack - 24 Jun 2007 02:44 GMT >>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/world/middleeast/24iran.html?_r=1&h... >>>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Iran will be quick and easy. Funny, but I just checked both Yahoo and MSN, and neither one has a headline about Iran. Are you privy to classified information, or are you just hallucinating again?
Yeah, Iran will be easy, just like Iraq only like three Iraqs full of people who hate us more than the Iraqis ever did. Just keep laughing, Bucko.
Scott in Florida - 24 Jun 2007 03:22 GMT >>>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/world/middleeast/24iran.html?_r=1&h... >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >about Iran. Are you privy to classified information, or are you just >hallucinating again? It will be an air war.....
It now is a ground war....
>Yeah, Iran will be easy, just like Iraq only like three Iraqs full of people >who hate us more than the Iraqis ever did. Just keep laughing, Bucko. >  Signature Scott in Florida There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators.
Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)
dh - 24 Jun 2007 03:50 GMT >>>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/world/middleeast/24iran.html?_r=1&h... >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > people who hate us more than the Iraqis ever did. Just keep laughing, > Bucko. Actually, the rank-and-file Iranians mostly like us. That would change after an invasion, of course, but an Administration with brains, imagination and the courage to try the unorthodox might make some real progress with Iraq.
I have high hopes for what Hillary can accomplish in '09, if it's not too late by then.
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dbu,. - 24 Jun 2007 08:48 GMT > >>>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/world/middleeast/24iran.html?_r=1&h.. > >>>>>> . [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > I have high hopes for what Hillary can accomplish in '09, if it's not too > late by then. Hillary will be a weak president (IF elected). Women in the islamic nations wear scarves to hid their faces. They follow the men around like puppy dogs. Why would you think they would have respect for her? Do you think we can sit down at a table with a bunch of terrorists, talk nice to them and everything will be just hunky-dory? Do you think our own military will respect her, especially after all the babble about Iraq and bringing the troops home, voting for the war then being against the war. Indecisiveness is easely detected. The islamic terrorists and their handlers will spot it right away. They will have no respect for her. Niether will our military. We will be in trouble.
I would rather see al gore than hillary, at least he can BS a good line. Right now I don't see much on the Republican side either, unfortunately.
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n5hsr - 24 Jun 2007 12:39 GMT >> >>>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/world/middleeast/24iran.html?_r=1&h.. >> >>>>>> . [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > Right now I don't see much on the Republican side either, > unfortunately. Unfortunately, what we need is someone with the BALLS of an Abraham Lincoln. He was labeled the Original Gorilla by the DemonCraps, but he kept right on being POTUS and finally found a general that could win the war in one U.S.Grant, and one that could finally make the South realize they had finally lost in W.T. Sherman. Nowadays, the PC Left would call them war criminals, but they won the war. History is written by the winners not the whiners.
Charles of Schaumburg
beerspill@whoever.com - 25 Jun 2007 03:45 GMT > Unfortunately, what we need is someone with the BALLS of an Abraham Lincoln. ...instead of the Coward-In-Chief dickhead who currently occupies the Oval Office.
Scott in Florida - 25 Jun 2007 22:11 GMT >> Unfortunately, what we need is someone with the BALLS of an Abraham Lincoln. > >...instead of the Coward-In-Chief dickhead who currently occupies the >Oval Office. Coward is not a word that works with our great President.
Coward is what liberals are.....
 Signature Scott in Florida There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators.
Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)
witfal - 25 Jun 2007 23:35 GMT >>> Unfortunately, what we need is someone with the BALLS of an Abraham Lincoln. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Coward is what liberals are..... Definitely. Have a look at a good article which explains much in few words:
http://tinyurl.com/38nkpr http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1181813077590&pagename=JPost%2FJPArti cle%2FShowFull
Scott in Florida - 26 Jun 2007 00:17 GMT >>>> Unfortunately, what we need is someone with the BALLS of an Abraham Lincoln. >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >http://tinyurl.com/38nkpr >http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1181813077590&pagename=JPost%2FJPArti cle%2FShowFull The lesson learned is to NEVER trust the country or the world to a leftist...
 Signature Scott in Florida There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators.
Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)
witfal - 26 Jun 2007 00:33 GMT >> Definitely. Have a look at a good article which explains much in few words: >> >> http://tinyurl.com/38nkpr >> http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1181813077590&pagename=JPost%2FJPArti cle%2FShowFull The
> lesson learned is to NEVER trust the country or the world to a > leftist... Particularly one from the south.
Scott in Florida - 26 Jun 2007 01:20 GMT >>> Definitely. Have a look at a good article which explains much in few words: >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Particularly one from the south. Or a carpetbagger that goes north and pulls the wool over New Yankers....
 Signature Scott in Florida There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators.
Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)
larry moe 'n curly - 26 Jun 2007 03:39 GMT > >> Definitely. Have a look at a good article which explains much in few words: > >> > >> http://tinyurl.com/38nkpr > >> http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1181813077590&pagename=JPost%2FJPArti cle%2FShowFull That's not an article but an editorial, and the Jeruselum Post is one of the most conservative major newspapers in Israel, with an editorial policy about on par with the Wall Street Journal.
A better Israeli newspaper is:
http://www.haaretz.com/
> The lesson learned is to NEVER trust the country or the world to a leftist... > > Particularly one from the south. Jimmy Carter a leftist? Go read a history book and stop being so ignorant..
Scott in Florida - 26 Jun 2007 03:54 GMT >Jimmy Carter a leftist? Go read a history book and stop being so >ignorant.. Jimmy Carter never met a dictator he didn't like.
He is so far left he has to come toward the center to match up to the extreme lefties in this country.
 Signature Scott in Florida There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators.
Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)
witfal - 26 Jun 2007 04:42 GMT > That's not an article but an editorial, and the Jeruselum Post is one > of the most conservative major newspapers in Israel, with an editorial > policy about on par with the Wall Street Journal. Singing the praises, eh? Good job.
> A better Israeli newspaper is: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Jimmy Carter a leftist? Go read a history book and stop being so > ignorant.. I stand by my words. He's hardly a conservative.
larry moe 'n curly - 26 Jun 2007 08:13 GMT > > That's not an article but an editorial, and the Jeruselum Post is one > > of the most conservative major newspapers in Israel, with an editorial > > policy about on par with the Wall Street Journal. > > Singing the praises, eh? Good job. Every rational person knows that the WSJ's editorial pages are shrill and predictably to the far right, unlike its article pages.
> > A better Israeli newspaper is: > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I stand by my words. He's hardly a conservative. Yet you've offered no evidence.
dbu,. - 26 Jun 2007 10:40 GMT > > > That's not an article but an editorial, and the Jeruselum Post is one > > > of the most conservative major newspapers in Israel, with an editorial [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Yet you've offered no evidence. carter weakened our military, gave support to draft dodgers and turncoats. Screwed up the economy.
Ronald Reagan got us back on the right track.
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larry moe 'n curly - 27 Jun 2007 11:56 GMT > > Jimmy Carter a leftist? Go read a history book and stop being so > > ignorant.. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > carter weakened our military, gave support to draft dodgers and > turncoats. Screwed up the economy. The military was shrunk after the Vietnam war by Nixon and Ford as well, and it was Ford who allowed draft dodgers to return to the US without fear of prosecution.
Carter didn't handle the economy well, but he wasn't at fault for fouling it up. That was caused by Nixon's disasterous wage-price controls and OPEC quadrupling oil prices overnight. It wasn't until Carter replaced his first Federal Reserve Chairman, G. William Miller, with the much better Paul Volcker that the economy started to turn around, but it happened at a politically inopportune time for Carter.
> Ronald Reagan got us back on the right track. On the economy, Reagan basically just let Volcker stay in office, and internationally we became very lucky because the last of the Stalinists had died and Gorbechev became the Soviet leader. But Reagan handled that opportunity very well and, unlike the current president, Reagan reduced tensions and cut back strategic weapons.
dbu,. - 27 Jun 2007 13:46 GMT > > > Jimmy Carter a leftist? Go read a history book and stop being so > > > ignorant.. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > well, and it was Ford who allowed draft dodgers to return to the US > without fear of prosecution. On Carter's first day in office, January 21, 1977, he fulfilled a campaign promise by issuing an Executive Order declaring unconditional amnesty for Vietnam-era war resisters and pacifists.
> Carter didn't handle the economy well, but he wasn't at fault for > fouling it up. That was caused by Nixon's disasterous wage-price [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Reagan handled that opportunity very well and, unlike the current > president, Reagan reduced tensions and cut back strategic weapons. And I am right on all the rest of the stuff too.
Ronald Reagan got the country back on track again from the grips of the carter regime.
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Robert - 27 Jun 2007 22:18 GMT Here's an interesting perspective on OPEC and Peak Oil:
Peak Oil, the concept of world wide oil production increasing, peaking, and then declining, is based upon the 1956 work of American geophysicist Marion King Hubbert. Globally, Peak Oil is expected to occur for both petroleum and natural gas by the year 2025 with worldwide supplies steadily declining thereafter. As the volume of oil reserves continue to fall, the demand for oil will continue to rise, further enhancing its economical, political, and strategical value. Our planet's population is like an overinflated balloon, one made entirely from petrochemical plastics, and as the petrochemicals disappear, so too will the foundation upon which our lives are built and sustained. When the black gold begins to run out and there is not enough to go around, supplies of black blood will begin to run dry. Of the roughly five billion population increase since Spindletop, many if not most will have to go.
When the United States invaded Iraq in 2003, it did so for good reasons. In terms of national output, the U.S. had already passed its own Peak Oil production point in 1971 and its peak natural gas production in 1974. In addition, in 2003 the U.S. reached the half way point toward complete depletion of its known oil reserves. Venezuela, one of the United States' chief sources of petroleum, is in a similar situation with its Peak Oil having occurred in 1970 while its halfway point to depletion was also reached in 2003. Saudi Arabia, the nation most commonly quoted as being the number one producer of petroleum in the world, is expected to reach its Peak Oil in 2006 with a rapid decline to mid-depletion by 2010. By invading Iraq for the second time, the United States managed to take complete control of the Iraqi reserves, and by 2005 the combined outputs from America's national and occupational oil wells outpaced that of Saudi Arabia. This officially made the U.S. the number one producer of oil in the world and effectively castrated OPEC from ever imposing another oil crisis upon the United States. While this may simply be a matter of moving to higher levels on a sinking ship, the rest of the world is undeniably feeling the pressure of being constrained below decks. As the United States postures under the banners of democracy and world globalization, it is, in effect, positioning itself for a not too distant survival of the fittest. In this struggle, the main challenger comes not from the Arab nations, but from the Far East.
China, America's number one competitor for world oil supplies, is growing at an astounding rate. Meanwhile, roughly three quarters of the world's known oil reserves are in the Middle East. Of that, one third is located in Saudi Arabia with Iran having around half that much and Iraq having slightly less than half. Between them, these three countries represent about fifty percent of the oil on this planet. Given its close ties to the Saudi's and its complete ownership of Iraq, the United States has governing access to almost forty percent of global petroleum supplies (not including Iran). Adding Canadian, Venezuelan, and America's own reserves to the list means that roughly five percent of the world's population is in control of sixty percent of the planet's petroleum. China, on the other hand, with approximately twenty percent of the planet's inhabitants, possesses less than two percent of the world's oil within its borders. So, at the same time that it is being superficially Walmartized into an oriental version of the world's leading superpower, Beijing continues to underwrite the American national debt in the hope that it will be granted sufficient access to the black blood it needs to satisfy its own petroleum addiction. The paying of tribute in precious gems, livestock, and grains, once the basis of the Goryeo-Khitan War in 1018, has now been transformed into the art of underwriting a faltering empire's economy through inexpensive merchandise and secured notes. Yet, when Peak Oil arrives globally and push comes to shove in 2025, who will be left standing?
Quoted from:
www.TheDragonOption.com
For more about Peak Oil, see topic:
www.TheDragonOption.com/chapter4.html#topic12
n5hsr - 28 Jun 2007 00:42 GMT >> > > Jimmy Carter a leftist? Go read a history book and stop being so >> > > ignorant.. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > Ronald Reagan got the country back on track again from the grips of the > carter regime. I know I didn't have a decent paying job all the Carter years. It was Reagan's first year in office before I got a shot at a decent job. I couldn't BUY a decent job in the Carter years.
Charles of Schaumburg
dbu,. - 28 Jun 2007 00:55 GMT > >> > > Jimmy Carter a leftist? Go read a history book and stop being so > >> > > ignorant.. [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Charles of Schaumburg Unless you were an air traffic controller, LOL.
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larry moe 'n curly - 27 Jun 2007 11:58 GMT > > Jimmy Carter a leftist? Go read a history book and stop being so > > ignorant.. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Ronald Reagan got us back on the right track. You've offered evidence that Carter was a bad president but nothing to support your contention that he was a leftist.or nonconservative.
Scott in Florida - 27 Jun 2007 13:29 GMT >> > Jimmy Carter a leftist? Go read a history book and stop being so >> > ignorant.. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >You've offered evidence that Carter was a bad president but nothing to >support your contention that he was a leftist.or nonconservative. Carter is/was a flaming liberal.
Here is proof positive!
http://www.brookings.edu/comm/events/20051017.htm
 Signature Scott in Florida There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators.
Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)
dbu,. - 27 Jun 2007 13:40 GMT > > > Jimmy Carter a leftist? Go read a history book and stop being so > > > ignorant.. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > You've offered evidence that Carter was a bad president but nothing to > support your contention that he was a leftist.or nonconservative. He was and is a liberal politican.
 Signature carpetbagger: a person perceived as an unscrupulous opportunist
witfal - 26 Jun 2007 15:24 GMT >> Singing the praises, eh? Good job. > > Every rational person knows that the WSJ's editorial pages are shrill > and predictably to the far right, unlike its article pages. You're being irrational. But I supposed you think the NYT is politically neutral.
>>> Jimmy Carter a leftist? Go read a history book and stop being so >>> ignorant.. >> >> I stand by my words. He's hardly a conservative. > > Yet you've offered no evidence. No one could improve upon all of the evidence presented by Carter himself.
Have you had your head in the sand the past ten or fifteen years?
n5hsr - 27 Jun 2007 01:25 GMT >>> Singing the praises, eh? Good job. >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Have you had your head in the sand the past ten or fifteen years? No, Joe Besser has had his head somewhere else for apparently most of his life.
Charles of Schamburg
dh - 25 Jun 2007 00:26 GMT >> >>>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/world/middleeast/24iran.html?_r=1&h.. >> >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > Right now I don't see much on the Republican side either, > unfortunately. You're just about as misogynist as the Iranian clergy.
I think it would be a good thing for the women of Iran (and Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan) to see the best country in the world run by a woman. Every time something like that happens, it chips away at their manacles.
Of course, almost anyone would be better than Dubya.
Al Gore? Sure, he'd be OK, too. Many of the Republicans in the lineup would do a better job than Dubya. Of course, that's damning with faint praise.
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Scott in Florida - 24 Jun 2007 13:20 GMT >I have high hopes for what Hillary can accomplish in '09, if it's not too >late by then. ROFLMAO......
Thanks for getting my day off with a laff.......
 Signature Scott in Florida There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators.
Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)
beerspill@whoever.com - 25 Jun 2007 03:30 GMT > Iran will be quick and easy. 4-5 years ago, what was your prediction on the outcome of a war in Iraq?
Scott in Florida - 25 Jun 2007 22:12 GMT >> Iran will be quick and easy. > >4-5 years ago, what was your prediction on the outcome of a war in >Iraq? The war was quick and easy.
The peace is always hard.
We are still in Japan and Germany....over 50 years after the end of the war.....
 Signature Scott in Florida There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators.
Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)
dh - 26 Jun 2007 05:22 GMT >>> Iran will be quick and easy. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > We are still in Japan and Germany....over 50 years after the end of > the war..... I have to admit, today, that I was wrong about something. I didn't think even you were stupid enough to think there was any sort of comparison between our continuing presence in Japan and Germany and our occupation of Iraq.
However, I was wrong; you are that stupid.
> Scott in Florida > > There ought to be one day-- just one-- > when there is open season on senators. > > Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)
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larry moe 'n curly - 25 Jun 2007 07:19 GMT > Iran will be quick and easy. The civilians in the administration thought Iraq would be easy, too, but look how it's turned out. Why should a war against Iran go any better when it's a LOT bigger and has a much better military?
GW Bush and Cheney met with our top generals a few weeks ago about invading Iran and were told that the US could inflict major damage on the Iranian military structure and take out most of its obvious nuclear production sites through air strikes, but the generals also recommended any attack. Do you know more about Iran than our generals do?
witfal - 25 Jun 2007 07:28 GMT >> Iran will be quick and easy. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > recommended any attack. Do you know more about Iran than our generals > do? It seems to me if they "recommended any attack", we should lob a few Tomahawks to get the ball rolling.
Starting with Ahmadinijad's house.
larry moe 'n curly - 26 Jun 2007 02:00 GMT > >> Iran will be quick and easy. > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > It seems to me if they "recommended any attack", we should lob a few > Tomahawks to get the ball rolling. Sorry, I left out a word: "the generals also recommended _against_ any attack." Also that meeting occurred in Dec. last year. It was the article that was published a few weeks ago.
> Starting with Ahmadinijad's house. And then what? Seriously, then what?
Scott in Florida - 25 Jun 2007 22:13 GMT >> Iran will be quick and easy. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >recommended any attack. Do you know more about Iran than our generals >do? Generals NEVER want to go to war.....
 Signature Scott in Florida There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators.
Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)
larry moe 'n curly - 26 Jun 2007 02:07 GMT > >> Iran will be quick and easy. > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >recommended [correction: AGAINST] any attack. Do you know more > >about Iran than our generals do?
> Generals NEVER want to go to war..... Probably because they know more about war than those of us who've never been in war.
But back to your statement, "Iran will be quick and easy,' what's the basis for it? Why should a much larger country be easier to conquer than Iraq, which still hasn't been won?
.
Scott in Florida - 26 Jun 2007 03:49 GMT >> >> Iran will be quick and easy. >> > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >basis for it? Why should a much larger country be easier to conquer >than Iraq, which still hasn't been won? Cause we are not going to occupy Iran....just bust up the nuclear capability.
It may be the Israelis, but it will be done....
 Signature Scott in Florida There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators.
Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)
larry moe 'n curly - 26 Jun 2007 08:04 GMT > Iran will be quick and easy.
> > "Iran will be quick and easy,' what's the basis for it? > > Why should a much larger country be easier to conquer > > than Iraq, which still hasn't been won? > > Cause we are not going to occupy Iran....just bust up the nuclear > capability. Do you mean an Operation Desert Fox for Iran? .
> It may be the Israelis, but it will be done.... We don't want the Israelis to get involved in any war between the US and Iran because that will give every Arab and Muslim country an excuse to wave all-out war in the Middle East.
Scott in Florida - 26 Jun 2007 11:54 GMT >> Iran will be quick and easy. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >and Iran because that will give every Arab and Muslim country an >excuse to wave all-out war in the Middle East. Just wait and see what happens.....
 Signature Scott in Florida There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators.
Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)
larry moe 'n curly - 25 Jun 2007 05:56 GMT > >> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/world/middleeast/24iran.html?_r=1&h... > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Hey liberal coward.....we are fighting Iran as we speak... At most we're doing reconnaisance patrols and making contacts with dissidents.
> By the way what are YOU doing to support our fight against terrorists? Zero, or about as much as you did in combat.
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