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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / June 2007

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Should head bolts be lubed or un-lubed? What about thread sealer?

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Doc - 30 Jun 2007 01:42 GMT
Getting ready to put a Toyota 7MGE engine together. A family member
insists the head bolts should be lubed before torquing. Agree or no?
If so, what's the lube of choice? Also, is thread sealer neccessary
for this engine? Do the head bolt threads encounter the water jacket
at all?

Thanks.
Mike Romain - 30 Jun 2007 01:55 GMT
> Getting ready to put a Toyota 7MGE engine together. A family member
> insists the head bolts should be lubed before torquing. Agree or no?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Thanks.

All books call for dry torque unless otherwise specifically stated.

The torque difference between wet and dry can be up to 60% easy I believe.

No engine I have ever owned called for lube.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos:  Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Don - 30 Jun 2007 02:59 GMT
>> Getting ready to put a Toyota 7MGE engine together. A family member
>> insists the head bolts should be lubed before torquing. Agree or no?
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>No engine I have ever owned called for lube.

To quote the factory procedure: " Apply a light coating of oil to
threads and underside of cylinder heat bolts."  This is pretty much
standard procedure because lubricated threads have a far more
predictable coefficient of friction than dry.  I can't at this time
think of any engine that calls for installing the head bolts dry, but
there may well be.  If the bolts go into water passages case sealer is
essential.  The sealer is a half-assed lubricant.  An example would be
the ubiquitous Chevy small block.  For a couple random samples I
looked up a 92 Honda Civic and they called for lubing  the head bolt
threads but NOT the bolt heads or washers (???).  A 4.6 Ford V8 called
for lubing the bolt heads but not the threads.  I think the mandatory
new head bolts come with the threads coated in this case which is
common.

Don
www.donsautomotive.com

>Mike
>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos:  Non members can still view!
>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Tegger - 30 Jun 2007 03:43 GMT
> For a couple random samples I
> looked up a 92 Honda Civic and they called for lubing  the head bolt
> threads but NOT the bolt heads or washers (???).

My factory manual for that car calls for engine oil on the head bolt
threads and the "washer contact surface" (yes, singular).

Previous models' factory manuals I have call for you to "apply engine oil
to the cylinder head bolts and the washers", without specifying surfaces.

Honda is also very particular about crankshaft bolt lubrication, stating
that you should lube the crank bolt threads, but not the part of the bolt
that contacts the washer.

I love Honda. Not as weird as Citroen, but getting there...

Signature

Tegger

ray - 30 Jun 2007 04:21 GMT
>>> Getting ready to put a Toyota 7MGE engine together. A family member
>>> insists the head bolts should be lubed before torquing. Agree or no?
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> Don
> www.donsautomotive.com

curious - on my race car (sbc) we just use engine oil on all the head
bolts - never had any leaks, but always wondered if I should be using
sealer instead.    Depending which manual and which mechanic I talk to,
I get slightly different answers, but all sbc manuals I've seen specify
engine oil and/or sealer on the head bolts.

Ray
Tegger - 30 Jun 2007 03:04 GMT
>> Getting ready to put a Toyota 7MGE engine together. A family member
>> insists the head bolts should be lubed before torquing. Agree or no?
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> No engine I have ever owned called for lube.

All Honda and Toyota engines require all head bolts and any associated
washers to be lubricated with engine oil prior to installation and
torquing.

Ask me how I know. C'mon, ask me.

Signature

Tegger

Doc - 30 Jun 2007 03:16 GMT
> All Honda and Toyota engines require all head bolts and any associated
> washers to be lubricated with engine oil prior to installation and
> torquing.
>
> Ask me how I know. C'mon, ask me.

How do you know?
Tegger - 30 Jun 2007 03:22 GMT
Doc <docsavage20@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1183169809.551597.153770
@k29g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:

>> All Honda and Toyota engines require all head bolts and any associated
>> washers to be lubricated with engine oil prior to installation and
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> How do you know?

'Cause I READ THE FACTORY SHOP MANUAL. That's how I know.

Did _you_ read the factory shop manual? Do you even have one?

Signature

Tegger

Hal - 30 Jun 2007 18:20 GMT
> >> Ask me how I know. C'mon, ask me.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> --

(chuckle)

RTFM. That always seems to work for me.

Chris
Nate Nagel - 30 Jun 2007 03:12 GMT
>> Getting ready to put a Toyota 7MGE engine together. A family member
>> insists the head bolts should be lubed before torquing. Agree or no?
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> No engine I have ever owned called for lube.

I've seen some shop manuals direct you to dip the bolts in engine oil
before installing, but I'd certainly believe that some spec it one way
and some another.  The last engine I actually put together was a
Studebaker V-8 though so I wouldn't hazard a guess what standard modern
practice is.  I'd defer to the FSM, unless you are using aftermarket
fasteners like ARP, in which case I'd follow their instructions.

FWIW, ARP fasteners, or at least ARP's VW rod bolts, *are* torqued with
lube.

nate

Signature

replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

qslim - 30 Jun 2007 02:13 GMT
All Toyota factory engine manuals I've ever seen call for a light coat of
oil on the bolts, I've never seen them call for thread sealer.
QX - 30 Jun 2007 06:01 GMT
>Getting ready to put a Toyota 7MGE engine together. A family member
>insists the head bolts should be lubed before torquing. Agree or no?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Thanks.

We used to use Loctite stud & bearing mount to secure the head bolts
into the block on the old air cooled VW's (1960's) cylinder jugs.
Used a more removeable loctite to secure the heads to the bolts.
Never had one loosen up.
Hachiroku ハチロク - 30 Jun 2007 10:45 GMT
> Getting ready to put a Toyota 7MGE engine together. A family member
> insists the head bolts should be lubed before torquing. Agree or no? If
> so, what's the lube of choice? Also, is thread sealer neccessary for this
> engine? Do the head bolt threads encounter the water jacket at all?
>
> Thanks.

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=EM&P=55

NOTE: This TSRM calls for 58 Ft Lbs of torque. Most people
rebuilding/replacing the head gasket say to torque to 72 Ft Lbs.

If you joined the SOGI/Supras@supra.com group like I suggested when you
started this project, bounce a message off them and ask them. There is a
LOT of knowledge on the 7M-GE there!
 
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