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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / August 2007Prius battery?
I'm curious about the Prius battery. It's not a lead-acid type is it? Otherwise it wouldn't last as long as it does? What kind do they use? Lithium Ion or something? Double AA's > I'm curious about the Prius battery. > > It's not a lead-acid type is it? Otherwise it wouldn't last as long as it > does? > > What kind do they use? Lithium Ion or something? > Double AA's Pretty close. The batteries are in packs where many batteries are connected together. They use Nickel Metal Hydride technology, instead of being alkaline or carbon, like the batteries you buy are your local store. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prius Jeff >> I'm curious about the Prius battery. >> >> It's not a lead-acid type is it? Otherwise it wouldn't last as long as it >> does? >> >> What kind do they use? Lithium Ion or something? >> Double AA's > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prius speaking of, cant you get NiMH double a's at the store? in the rechargable packages? >>> Double AA's >> Pretty close. The batteries are in packs where many batteries are [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > speaking of, cant you get NiMH double a's at the store? in the rechargable > packages? http://www.rayovac.com/recharge/hybrid_technology.shtml They even named the product, "Hybrid." I guess if they were letting Al Gore's son advertise for them, it would have to be High-brid, because the hybrid plants in his car make him high. > > Double AA's > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Jeff Correct. "Sealed 168-cell nickel metal hydride (NiMH) battery providing 201.6 volts; supplied by Panasonic EV Energy Co" I've found NiMH batteries to be good but they aren't perfect by any means. With time battery technology should get better.  Signature"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air." Tom Snyder >>> Double AA's >> Pretty close. The batteries are in packs where many batteries are [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > I've found NiMH batteries to be good but they aren't perfect by any > means. With time battery technology should get better. Technology almost always gets better with time, with the possible exception of operating systems made by companies in the state of Washington. Jeff dbu` <nps@alllegal.com> wrote : >> > Double AA's >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > I've found NiMH batteries to be good but they aren't perfect by any > means. With time battery technology should get better. But people here are reporting that the batteries last a lot of years? Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote : >> Double AA's > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prius I was just reading that, thanks. Is the engine a rotary engine then, like the Mazdas had? That's what it looks like. > Jeff <kidsdoc2...@hotmail.com> wrote : > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prius > > I was just reading that, thanks. Is the engine a rotary engine then, like > the Mazdas had? That's what it looks like. Where did you get that from? The Prius uses an Atkinson cycle internal combustion engine, which is similar in block to the Otto cycle ICE used in the Echo/Yaris. More information can be found on this site for the NHW11 Prius (though most items carry over to the current NHW20 Prius): http://www.ecrostech.com/prius/original/PriusFrames.htm and use the "Understanding the Prius" followed by "The Internal Combustion Engine" frames. > Is the engine a rotary engine then, like > the Mazdas had? That's what it looks like. No, the engine is a standard reciprocating engine. What you're seeing is the ingenious Power Split Device--the mechanism by which the entire power cycle of the system is managed and distributed. "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote : >> Is the engine a rotary engine then, like >> the Mazdas had? That's what it looks like. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > by which the entire power cycle of the system is managed and > distributed. I have to say, that even though I'm not an engineer or mechanic or anything, this is the first car that I've felt excited about in many years. Wish I could afford the $500 a month for one. If I can find a way, I'd love to have a 2008 model. Did you see this color for 2008?: http://toyota.jp/prius/grade/touring/image/main.jpg > Did you see this color for 2008?:http://toyota.jp/prius/grade/touring/image/main.jpg Toyota Prius in Japan have always had different available colors as opposed to the rest of the world, though some overlap. The photo that you show is of Blue Mica color code 8M6, and has been on the NHW20 Prius sold in Japan since that model came out (the 2004 model year). In the US, the shade of blue available on the NHW20 prius has been Seaside Pearl color code 8S2. I don't think that the Blue Mica 8M6 has been available on Prius outside of Japan, though. Available exterior colors in Japan: http://toyota.jp/prius/exterior/bodycolor/index.html Available exterior colors in the US: http://www.toyota.com/prius/color.html Not that the website photos are really useful, though... "mrv@kluge.net" <mrv@kluge.net> wrote : >> Did you see this color for >> 2008?:http://toyota.jp/prius/grade/touring/image/main.jpg [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > been Seaside Pearl color code 8S2. I don't think that the Blue Mica > 8M6 has been available on Prius outside of Japan, though. Darn. We'd like to see deep candy purple too. :) The Japanese just don't understand the American psyche. :) > Did you see this color for 2008?: > http://toyota.jp/prius/grade/touring/image/main.jpg Ohhhh... I was hoping to see that pretty (IMO) icy aqua color back again. Nope. OTOH, I see the "jp" in the above link. Possibly that color's available only in Japan... Cathy > "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote : > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Did you see this color for 2008?: > http://toyota.jp/prius/grade/touring/image/main.jpg There are other ways - - check out Ebay - - if you don't mind the stigma of the car being termed "Salvage", buying a repaired car can save you about $5000. I bought one two years ago for $17,000. Of course there's no warranty repair on one - - you have to pay in full for anything that needs work. So far the only things that I've had to pay for is a dealership inspection for $100, a new 12V storage battery for $165, a spare key fob for $297, and a ground connection that went bad for $366. It's always a risk, but sometimes you can tell by how thoroughly the car is covered by photographs in the Ebay ad, and the story that goes along with it. I had to drive about 100 miles to Sacramento to get my car while I live near San Jose, Ca. There's always the history of the seller to gauge the risks and the "completed listings" to see what people are actually paying. Good luck Chuck "Chuck Olson" ... > "Moon Goddess" ... >> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" : [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > Chuck That last line is something I'd think you'd need quite a bit of, with "e-Pray." I'd really be hesitant to try to buy any big-ticket thing from an eBay seller. Have any others here had good luck with online auto buying? With eBay or any other? Just curious. Natalie > Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote : > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I was just reading that, thanks. Is the engine a rotary engine then, like > the Mazdas had? That's what it looks like. No, it's a regular four-cylinder engine. Jeff Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote : >> Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote : >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Jeff That page said something to the effect that did all 4 strokes in a single revolution, so it reminded me of the Mazda rotaries, which of course were not such fuel savers if I recall. > Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote : > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > single revolution, so it reminded me of the Mazda rotaries, which of > course were not such fuel savers if I recall. I was incorrect, however. It is an Atkinson cycle engine, as pointed out by another member of the group. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkinson_cycle I see what you mean. Besides small engines (like lawn mower engines), the only other 2 stroke engines (piston engines that complete all four strokes in one cycle) that I am aware of are diesel engines in heavy equipment, like trucks, boats, and big generators. When I was in college and high school, I took a few apart for my father, who had a machine shop. http://people.bath.ac.uk/ccsshb/12cyl/ Jeff "GoMavs" .. > Double AA's LOL You're mean Natalie > "Moon Goddess" ... >> I'm curious about the Prius battery. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >> What kind do they use? Lithium Ion or something? http://www.answers.com/topic/nickel-metal-hydride-battery there is the info space case > I'm curious about the Prius battery. > > It's not a lead-acid type is it? Otherwise it wouldn't last as long as it > does? > > What kind do they use? Lithium Ion or something? I believe it is a sealed lead acid battery. It will not last forever. I don't know what the replacement cost is, but I would not buy any used hybrid vehicles unless they had a brand new battery installed or were greatly discounted. My guess is they will last about five years at most. I'm not looking for a hybrid anyway so I am not too worried. Signature"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air." Tom Snyder >> I'm curious about the Prius battery. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I believe it is a sealed lead acid battery. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prius See # 7. The car may have a lead acid battery, as well, but it is not the battery that is used to propel the car. > It will not last forever. > I don't know what the replacement cost is, but I would not buy any used > hybrid vehicles unless they had a brand new battery installed or were > greatly discounted. As far as I know, except for some problems with the battery packs that did not involve the batteries themselves, there have few or no problems reported the the battery. > My guess is they will last about five years at most. Are there lots of reports of batteries being replaced? > I'm not looking for a hybrid anyway so I am not too worried. Good thing. Jeff > It will not last forever. > I don't know what the replacement cost is, but I would not buy any used > hybrid vehicles unless they had a brand new battery installed or were > greatly discounted. My guess is they will last about five years at most. You can go to the web boards and hear all the braying about how they last forever, then you can to to alt.autos.toyota.prius today and read about the guy with an 04 with 41K miles and his traction battery just DIED out of nowhere for no good reason--and how he's glad he took the extended warranty. Let's see, 3.5 years and 41K miles. Hmmmmm..... >> It will not last forever. >> I don't know what the replacement cost is, but I would not buy any used [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Let's see, 3.5 years and 41K miles. Hmmmmm..... But that would be an exception rather than the rule. My uncle once told me about a new car that he bought that the engine blew a few blocks away from the dealer due to having been assembled incorrectly at the factory. I can't recall what model he said it was but IIRC it was a Ford. My point is that no matter how good a product is or how carefully it is put together there will always be early failures. Fortunately for Prius owners the failures do seem to be few and far between and I can only hope that the few that do inevitably fail do so within the warranty period. >>> It will not last forever. >>> I don't know what the replacement cost is, but I would not buy any used [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> DIED out of nowhere for no good reason--and how he's glad he took the >> extended warranty. Why? The battery died within the regular warranty period for the car's battery. Let's see: One battery problem out of how many autos sold? >> Let's see, 3.5 years and 41K miles. Hmmmmm..... > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > seem to be few and far between and I can only hope that the few that do > inevitably fail do so within the warranty period. In other word you don't care if you car has problems, as long as you do not bear the cost of the repair? ;) mike >>>> It will not last forever. >>>> I don't know what the replacement cost is, but I would not buy any used [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Let's see: One battery problem out of how many autos sold? > My uncle once told me > about a new car that he bought that the engine blew a few blocks away from > the dealer due to having been assembled incorrectly at the factory. I can't > recall what model he said it was but IIRC it was a Ford. My father occasionally reminds me of the time he bought his 1970 Olds Cutlass new. It stalled the instant he drove it off the lot. LOL!!! Or the first recorded retail sale of a Mercury Milan that was to a Toyota owner when the tranny, in his 38 month old Camry, blew at 30K miles. ;) mike >> My uncle once told me >> about a new car that he bought that the engine blew a few blocks away [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > My father occasionally reminds me of the time he bought his 1970 Olds > Cutlass new. It stalled the instant he drove it off the lot. LOL!!! I was driving a customers 00 4cyl Camry once for a wheel vibration concern, and the #3 connecting rod decided to eject through the block. That was a tough one to explain (for the service manager to the customer). > I was driving a customers 00 4cyl Camry once for a wheel vibration concern, > and the #3 connecting rod decided to eject through the block. That was a > tough one to explain (for the service manager to the customer). And this has what to do with the Prius battery? > > I was driving a customers 00 4cyl Camry once for a wheel vibration concern, > > and the #3 connecting rod decided to eject through the block. That was a > > tough one to explain (for the service manager to the customer). > > And this has what to do with the Prius battery? Not the battery, but rather the story we were discussing about someone's 04 Prius battery going out at 41K miles. The point was, ANYTHING can happen. Lurk more often, and pay better attention. >>> I was driving a customers 00 4cyl Camry once for a wheel vibration concern, >>> and the #3 connecting rod decided to eject through the block. That was a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Lurk more often, and pay better attention. I have been paying attention. The poster didn't quote any text in the thread that gave us a clue. He didn't make a point. And this had nothing to do with a Prius. The bottom line is that if a poster wants to make a contribution, it really helps to say something relevant to the thread. The poster didn't. Jeff >>>> I was driving a customers 00 4cyl Camry once for a wheel vibration concern, >>>> and the #3 connecting rod decided to eject through the block. That was a [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >Jeff Hi Jeff, Did anyone ever tell you that you're an a.shole? Well, you are. --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 000769-0, 08/27/2007 Tested on: 8/27/2007 4:13:21 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com <snipped> > The bottom line is that if a poster wants to make a contribution, it > really helps to say something relevant to the thread. The poster didn't. > > Jeff As a percentage of articles posted, qslim probably ranks right there at the top, and his technical advice is always right on. I vote to cut him a little slack! ;-) SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >> I was driving a customers 00 4cyl Camry once for a wheel vibration >> concern, >> and the #3 connecting rod decided to eject through the block. That was a >> tough one to explain (for the service manager to the customer). > > And this has what to do with the Prius battery? Considering what's in the rest of the thread: I think he was making the analogy that anything weird & unexpected *can* happen (like a Prius battery going bad early on), but that any one of those things isn't *likely* to happen. Cathy >>> I was driving a customers 00 4cyl Camry once for a wheel vibration >>> concern, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > battery going bad early on), but that any one of those things isn't > *likely* to happen. Yup, that's how I saw it. Why do some folks have the need to attempt to be a net nanny?? R >> I was driving a customers 00 4cyl Camry once for a wheel vibration concern, >> and the #3 connecting rod decided to eject through the block. That was a >> tough one to explain (for the service manager to the customer). > >And this has what to do with the Prius battery? Hijacking a subject is a standard ploy of OT posters. >I was driving a customers 00 4cyl Camry once for a wheel vibration concern, > and the #3 connecting rod decided to eject through the block. That was a > tough one to explain (for the service manager to the customer). I remember looking at a customer's truck for rust on the skirts behind the rear wheels. It was a slushy day and there was a buildup of ice behind the wheels so I knocked the ice off with my boot. Unfortunately, the ice had encased the wires for the rear marker light and kicking the ice pulled the wires right out of the light assembly. It's worse when the customer is standing right there, but new fender skirts and a new market light assembly made him happy. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) That's pretty damn funny, Ray. Having worked for a Toyota dealer for close to ten years, I have my share of weird failures and bizarre one in a million incidents fit for a sitcom. But, whenever I hang out with some pals from the Dodge or Ford dealerships from across the way, this handful of stories for me is just day to day life for them. I remember hanging out with a career Ford tech once, and he was talking about commonality and frequency of failures. He pointed out that on the cars I work on, if you see one failure on a certain Toyota model, you can expect to see it on a good percentage of the rest of that model, which is true. On some other cars (i.e. Ford), it's a complete crapshoot as to what has failed on a broken car. "qslim"... > That's pretty damn funny, Ray. Having worked for a Toyota dealer for > close [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > true. On some other cars (i.e. Ford), it's a complete crapshoot as to what > has failed on a broken car. Even the Fusion? Or is it too early to tell? Natalie > That's pretty damn funny, Ray. Having worked for a Toyota dealer for > close [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > true. On some other cars (i.e. Ford), it's a complete crapshoot as to what > has failed on a broken car. A lot of dealers in small towns sold other makes, and I'd occasionally run into the Ford, Pontiac, and Volvo reps. Those reps would give me the evil eye because they were busy meeting with customers while I usually had time to walk around the shop and shoot the breeze with the techs or check out the Snap-On guy's truck if he happened to be visiting. I always listened to the techs when they told me about a new problem they ran across, because chances were, I'd see it at another store. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > But that would be an exception rather than the rule. Anyone can post anything they want on these sites. It could have been posted by the competition. > My uncle once > told me about a new car that he bought that the engine blew a few > blocks away from the dealer due to having been assembled incorrectly > at the factory. I can't recall what model he said it was but IIRC it > was a Ford. <snicker> > I'm curious about the Prius battery. > > It's not a lead-acid type is it? Otherwise it wouldn't last as long as it > does? > > What kind do they use? Lithium Ion or something? A lot of info, incl. what you're asking in this post, is on the Prius pages of the Toyota website. http://www.toyota.com/prius/specs.html Cathy >> I'm curious about the Prius battery. >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Cathy Excellent info. Also, http://www.hybridsynergydrive.com/ and www.howstuffworks.com have info on hybrid cars. And, a lot more info can be found here by searching with terms like "hybrid cars", "toyota prius": www.google.com Jeff > I'm curious about the Prius battery. > > It's not a lead-acid type is it? Otherwise it wouldn't last as long as it > does? > > What kind do they use? Lithium Ion or something? The lead-acid (Pb-A) 12v accessory batteries in hybrids tend to be smaller than those found in every traditional gasoline vehicle. Recycling programs are in place for traditional lead-acid batteries. All the hybrids on the market use NiMH (Nickel-Metal Hydride) batteries, which contain no heavy metals (so they're not hazardous waste, like the Pb-A batteries), and are easily recycled. There has been some press lately about the future of lithium ion batteries in hybrids, specifically the Prius. Toyota has decided to delay the introduction of them due to safety concerns (similar design as those overheating laptop batteries). The Prius' hybrid battery is made by Panasonic EV Energy: http://www.peve.jp/e/shouhin.html The main site that you'd want to read is: http://www.toyota.com/html/hybridsynergyview/2006/fall/battery.html Which is a hybrid battery Q&A. also: http://www.toyota.com/about/environment/technology/2004/hybrid.html and http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html? id=20040623 http://pressroom.toyota.com/Releases/View?id=TYT2004062345528 Toyota press release from 06/22/2004: <quote> How long does the Prius battery last and what is the replacement cost? The Prius battery (and the battery-power management system) has been designed to maximize battery life. In part this is done by keeping the battery at an optimum charge level - never fully draining it and never fully recharging it. As a result, the Prius battery leads a pretty easy life. We have lab data showing the equivalent of 180,000 miles with no deterioration and expect it to last the life of the vehicle. We also expect battery technology to continue to improve: the second- generation model battery is 15% smaller, 25% lighter, and has 35% more specific power than the first. This is true of price as well. Between the 2003 and 2004 models, service battery costs came down 36% and we expect them to continue to drop so that by the time replacements may be needed it won't be a much of an issue. Since the car went on sale in 2000, Toyota has not replaced a single battery for wear and tear. Is there a recycling plan in place for nickel-metal hydride batteries? Toyota has a comprehensive battery recycling program in place and has been recycling nickel-metal hydride batteries since the RAV4 Electric Vehicle was introduced in 1998. Every part of the battery, from the precious metals to the plastic, plates, steel case and the wiring, is recycled. To ensure that batteries come back to Toyota, each battery has a phone number on it to call for recycling information and dealers are paid a $200 "bounty" for each battery. </quote> The hybrid battery packs in the Prius have labels on them for whom to contact to recycle them. See the HV Battery Pack Recycling section in the Prius Emergency Response Guides. page 11 (of the printed version): http://techinfo.toyota.com/public/main/1stprius.pdf page 19 (of the printed version): http://techinfo.toyota.com/public/main/2ndprius.pdf > I'm curious about the Prius battery. oh, forgot to mention: In the US, the hybrid traction battery is covered federally for 8 years/100,000 miles. If you have an AT-PZEV Prius (2004-current) in a CA emissions state, it is further covered out to 10 years/150,000 miles. That's a full warranty, NOT pro-rated. "mrv@kluge.net" <mrv@kluge.net> wrote : >> I'm curious about the Prius battery. > > oh, forgot to mention: In the US, the hybrid traction battery is > covered federally for 8 years/100,000 miles. If you have an AT-PZEV > Prius (2004-current) in a CA emissions state, it is further covered > out to 10 years/150,000 miles. That's a full warranty, NOT pro-rated. Wow, impressive. What would one cost to replace when out of warranty? > "m...@kluge.net" <m...@kluge.net> wrote : > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > What would one cost to replace when out of warranty? just replacing an individual cell, or the whole battery pack? does that include the casing and mounting brackets and battery ECU and wiring harness? labor charges? New dealer pricing, or a used pack? Battery for the NHW10, NHW11, or the NHW20 Prius, as they're not interchangeable? Used packs from wrecked Prius can be found on eBay every so often, and can be had for less than US$1000, usually closer to US$500. (Often purchased by hybrid hobbists for study or for use in an EV installation.) New, depending on the dealership and if a NHW11 or NHW20 battery it is around US$3000, and depending on labor rates that can grow to US$5000-US$6000. But since the replacements are very rare, often one can get Toyota corporate to split the costs with you out of warranty if you remain civil. I've replaced a few dozen batteries over the years since the first gen came out, and have yet to see a customer pay any money towards replacement, even with over 100k. Toyota seems to be standing behind these things. Whether or not this will continue as hybrids get more mainstream remains to be seen. |
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