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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / November 2007

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3rd gear out = new transmission?

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Ranking - 21 Nov 2007 22:58 GMT
I'm not very mechanical, forgive me, but if 3rd gear is out does that
mean the whole tranny needs to be replaced?

I'm looking at a Corolla clone, 99 Prizm, 3rd gear is out, others work
fine, even reverse. 160,000 miles on it, and some weird metallic noise
coming from the engine. I also have no evidence of a timing belt
change, and the owner has had the car since 20K.

Should I run to beat hell? I told her I could have my mechanic check
it out and then maybe we could deal. Is it worth even bothering with?
She's asking 500 for it. Pretty good shape overall. Glass is okay,
tires old.

Run

Thanks
mrsteveo - 21 Nov 2007 23:10 GMT
> I'm not very mechanical, forgive me, but if 3rd gear is out does that
> mean the whole tranny needs to be replaced?
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Thanks

Could just need new tranny fluid.  I had a friend who sold a car real
cheap because they couldn't shift at all.  Flushed/filled with new
tranny fluid and the car shifted/ran perfectly fine.  Still on the
road to this day.

Might try that, although considering what a sign of neglect it would
be -- you might watch out.  $500 though is pretty cheap if you don't
end up with too many repair bills.
Jeff - 22 Nov 2007 02:40 GMT
>> I'm not very mechanical, forgive me, but if 3rd gear is out does that
>> mean the whole tranny needs to be replaced?
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> be -- you might watch out.  $500 though is pretty cheap if you don't
> end up with too many repair bills.

According to Kelly Blue Book, the car is worth $3500 if it is in good
shape. The car needs new tires, a new timing belt and a transmission
fluid change, if you're lucky.

I would take it to your mechanic and see what (s)he says. That part
won't cost you anything. If there is no engine damage (metallic sound
coming from the engine is not promising) and the transmission doesn't
have a major problem, it is probably worth it.

Jeff

Jeff
Jeff - 22 Nov 2007 02:55 GMT
>>> I'm not very mechanical, forgive me, but if 3rd gear is out does that
>>> mean the whole tranny needs to be replaced?
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> I would take it to your mechanic and see what (s)he says. That part
> won't cost you anything.

I should have said that this part won't cost you much. Of course, you do
need to pay the mechanic for his/her time to check the car.

 If there is no engine damage (metallic sound
> coming from the engine is not promising) and the transmission doesn't
> have a major problem, it is probably worth it.
>
> Jeff
>
> Jeff
Reasoned Insanity - 22 Nov 2007 04:40 GMT
>> I'm not very mechanical, forgive me, but if 3rd gear is out does that
>> mean the whole tranny needs to be replaced?
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> be -- you might watch out.  $500 though is pretty cheap if you don't
> end up with too many repair bills.

But you do want to be careful with flushing the transmissions of older cars.
Flushing might result  in having to get a new transmission.
Ranking - 22 Nov 2007 04:53 GMT
On Nov 21, 10:40 pm, "Reasoned Insanity" <mintclov...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> >> I'm not very mechanical, forgive me, but if 3rd gear is out does that
> >> mean the whole tranny needs to be replaced?
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> But you do want to be careful with flushing the transmissions of older cars.
> Flushing might result  in having to get a new transmission.

Sure, flush could bust some seals. I really like Prizms, but I dunno,
this gal's breath (don't light any matches, yikes)  I even offered her
250 to just take it as is and take my chances at the garage, but she
wouldn't bite. But she'll let me take it in, I'm sure they'll charge
40 - 90 to look at it, which is okay.

It would be super sweet if it wasn't too spendy, but yeah, 400 for the
timing belt/water pump alone, can live with the tires for now, and
whatever the tranny/clutch might be wrong (80 bucks to flush it or so,
*might* work I guess), plus some mysterious metallic noise in the
engine (!) which who the heck knows what that could be, thing still
moved.

I just really like Prizms (drove an automatic for 4 years, great
mileage), and like it was said, it's well under book, but I really
don't want to toss 2K into a used car I got for 300-500 (if I can
bargain her down). If I can get it running decent for 1500 including
purchase price and whatever work/diagnosis needs to be done, might be
okay, but if the tranny is shot, it's probably not worth it to me. I'm
not mechanical, would be a sweet car for one of those guys, or maybe
the local tech school????

I'm looking for something for nothing, and I don't think that happens
too often. I will have to seriously ponder this. There are several
Prizms for sale lately around here for some reason, up to like 4 or
5K, yikes, for a Prizm???

Thanks for the sage advice all. Do I really need a 3rd gear? lol, 4th
will go next, heh....

Ranking
Ray O - 22 Nov 2007 05:26 GMT
> I'm not very mechanical, forgive me, but if 3rd gear is out does that
> mean the whole tranny needs to be replaced?
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Thanks

Is the transmission an automatic or a manual?  If it is an automatic, I'd
pass on the car.  If it is a manual, check the shifter and shift cable
adjustment.

Sounds are difficult to diagnose without hearing them first hand.  If the
metallic noise is a knocking noise, pass on the car.
Signature


Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Ranking - 22 Nov 2007 06:26 GMT
On Nov 21, 11:26 pm, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom>
wrote:

> > I'm not very mechanical, forgive me, but if 3rd gear is out does that
> > mean the whole tranny needs to be replaced?
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)

It's a manual, the metallic noise sounds like a loose piece of
something getting dragged along or spun around something else, hard to
really tell, not so much a knocking as a sharp tinny sound if that
makes sense.

Thanks
Ray O - 22 Nov 2007 15:56 GMT
> On Nov 21, 11:26 pm, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
> Thanks

Manual transmissions are less expensive to rebuild and repair than automatic
transmissions, especially if it is just the shifter that needs adjustment or
repair.

If the sharp tinny sound is coming from the top of the engine, then it could
be something as simple as the valves needing adjustment, but it could also
be something worse.  Rather than speculate, I would have the car checked out
by a competent technician and get estimates for repair so you can make a
decision.

good luck!
Signature


Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Bruce L. Bergman - 22 Nov 2007 05:27 GMT
>I'm not very mechanical, forgive me, but if 3rd gear is out does that
>mean the whole tranny needs to be replaced?
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>She's asking 500 for it. Pretty good shape overall. Glass is okay,
>tires old.

160,000 miles isn't new, but $500 for a car that still has $3K plus
book value is a rather healthy discount already.  You just need to
make sure it isn't going to cost more than that to get it back in
shape, and get another 100K out of it.

 Do NOT buy this car if you don't plan to keep it a while, because
you want to drive the value out of the repairs, for at least 60K
miles.

 And do NOT buy it if the repair prices exceed the book value of the
car in good shape, because you can invest the money in repairs...
And then the car gets stolen or totaled in a wreck and you lose your
investment, since the insurance company isn't going to give you more
than book without an epic battle.

I would suggest two things:  Get the engine and car checked out at
YOUR local mechanic - NOT the seller's mechanic, there may be a
serious conflict of interest there.  As in he's deliberately lying for
his friend.

There are several inexpensive things that can make noise on the
engine, as well as some expensive ones, they can isolate it.  And tell
you what the overall cost of getting the car into road-ready shape
will be, and break it down between the things "needed now" (like the
timing belt is a must) and those that are "needed soon."

 There are some items that you replace simply on time or mileage,
like the battery, belts and hoses, and radiator.  If they are all
originals, they may be due to fail even if they're working fine now,
so look at their age and condition carefully.  The new plastic and
aluminum radiators are cheaper and more reliable when replaced than
trying to fix the old one.

 And if your mechanic can't pin down the what and why, have the
transmission checked out separately by a transmission specialist.
They are the ones who know them inside out.  

 It may not need a full transmission rebuild, but that's the safe way
to go once they have to take it out for anything (especially with a
lot of miles on it) - the labor to remove and replace the transmission
is always a big chunk of the overall cost, so you only want to do it
once every 150K miles...

 They haul out the transmission and tear it down to check it over,
and only change what's really worn out or broken, which can save you a
lot of money - but you still want to find out what the "worst case"
price is, in case they find "surprises" and it needs everything.

   --<< Bruce >>--
Ranking - 22 Nov 2007 14:31 GMT
On Nov 21, 11:27 pm, Bruce L. Bergman
<blnospamberg...@earthlink.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 14:58:14 -0800 (PST), Ranking
>
[quoted text clipped - 61 lines]
>
>     --<< Bruce >>--

Great advice Bruce. I definitely would want to drive my money's worth
out of repairs, so there's a line somewhere. I would say new tranny =
no thanks, but like I said around 1500 total or so would probably be
my line. I can find a decent running car for under 2K already or just
spend 3-4 and get a Corolla or other Prizm, no sense trying to rebuild
a (somewhat?) neglected one.

I do know this guy who has a 95 (?) Metro for sale, 300 bucks that was
just overheating, but boy there I go again, something for nothing.
Probably warped the engine, but still, fun little car, airbags even.

Has anyone driven a Smart Car? Those look kind of fun.

Thanks all, have a great Thanksgiving.
RG
mack - 22 Nov 2007 20:33 GMT
> On Nov 21, 11:27 pm, Bruce L. Bergman
> <blnospamberg...@earthlink.invalid> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 79 lines]
> Thanks all, have a great Thanksgiving.
> RG

I'd be inclined to pass on the Prizm, cheap as it seems to be.   You've
outlined all the stuff you KNOW is wrong, including a suspicious noise in
the engine, but there's lots and lots of things that may need attention that
you haven't yet discovered.   If the car has not been well maintained, it's
further evidence of poor upkeep.   I'd sooner pay more and get a cream puff
with half the mileage and documented evidence that the person had
over-maintained it.   This one sounds cheap enough, but with lots of cash
outlay in future.
Ranking - 23 Nov 2007 01:51 GMT
> > On Nov 21, 11:27 pm, Bruce L. Bergman
> > <blnospamberg...@earthlink.invalid> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 88 lines]
> over-maintained it.   This one sounds cheap enough, but with lots of cash
> outlay in future.

I think that's where I'm sitting now. I can take a well-maintained car
that might need a little work, but yeah, I think this one was pretty
neglected and there's no sense throwing money away on it. It's a
repairable at best. I think I will pass. Thanks all.
mack - 23 Nov 2007 22:31 GMT
> I think that's where I'm sitting now. I can take a well-maintained car
> that might need a little work, but yeah, I think this one was pretty
> neglected and there's no sense throwing money away on it. It's a
> repairable at best. I think I will pass. Thanks all.

Good reasoning.   The old saw about "you can't make a silk purse out of a
sow's ear" is about right.
If the car were a highly collectible antique that was trashed, you might
pour megabucks into it and restore it to pristine condition and sell it at
auction, but NO prizm is ever going to be worth much ...until it's 100 years
old and it's the only one around.
My advice - find a car that a little old lady drove only to church (and had
no teenage grandchildren who borrowed it to race their pals) with
unreasonably low mileage, and give her a good price for it.  Buy a high
mileage car and you might as well buy a taxicab.
Bruce L. Bergman - 24 Nov 2007 02:34 GMT
>"Ranking" <ranking.groin@gmail.com> wrote...

>> I think that's where I'm sitting now. I can take a well-maintained car
>> that might need a little work, but yeah, I think this one was pretty
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>unreasonably low mileage, and give her a good price for it.  Buy a high
>mileage car and you might as well buy a taxicab.

 If the car is in otherwise really good shape except for one major
fault, you are getting a good enough price break on the used car to
cover the repair costs, and you can do your own repair labor to get it
back in good shape, you can come out ahead.

 But unless you get the car practically for free, most of the people
who have to pay a mechanic full boat to do their repairs will end up
getting hosed on that kind of deal.  It might work out for the initial
repairs, then something else breaks and the money pit opens wide.

   --<< Bruce >>--
 
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