Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
HomeAnnouncements
Discussion Groups
By Brand
BMWChevroletDodgeFordGMHondaLexusMercedes-BenzNissanPeugeotToyotaVolkswagenOther Brands
By Topic
4x4 CarsRVsDrivingMaintenance & RepairCar AudioCollectible Cars
Country Specific
Australian ForumsUK Forums
ArticlesAuto InsuranceBuyingCars & TechnologyMaintenanceMiscellaneousSafety
DMV Resources
Related Topics
MotorcyclesBoatsMore Topics ...

Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / November 2007

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

2000 Echo "bass-ackward" defroster

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Wickeddoll - 26 Nov 2007 23:34 GMT
It has been pouring rain lately.  I took my daughter to work today, and as
soon as the car left the garage it fogged up so completely I had to use the
wipers and open the windows to see.  I turned on the defroster (anterior),
opened the vents, but it got even worse.  I knew my rear defroster was out,
but wasn't willing to shell out the righteous cash they wanted to charge me.
(I need to take it to that honest mechanic my son dealt with).

Eventually I just closed the vents, and it started working!  The button for
defrost clearly says to open the vents, but for some reason, that makes it
worse.

I remember you guys saying you should turn on the A/C in the winter, which I
thought was pretty weird.  I didn't push the cooling button, but just had it
re-use inside air.  The windows cleared right up.

Any thoughts?

Natalie
dh - 26 Nov 2007 23:49 GMT
> It has been pouring rain lately.  I took my daughter to work today, and as
> soon as the car left the garage it fogged up so completely I had to use
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Natalie

The A/C also dehumidifies, removing the moisture and, one hopes, the fog.  I
don't know what's special about re-using inside air in your case.
JoeSpareBedroom - 26 Nov 2007 23:52 GMT
> It has been pouring rain lately.  I took my daughter to work today, and as
> soon as the car left the garage it fogged up so completely I had to use
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Natalie

Push the AC button and turn the temp all the way to hot. The reasoning
behind this is obvious.
Scott in Florida - 27 Nov 2007 00:24 GMT
>It has been pouring rain lately.  I took my daughter to work today, and as
>soon as the car left the garage it fogged up so completely I had to use the
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>Natalie

The AC removes the humidity.  For the defrost to work you need the AC on.

You can turn the heat up high with the AC on and the problem should be
solved.

Signature

Scott in  Florida

C. E. White - 27 Nov 2007 00:42 GMT
> The AC removes the humidity.  For the defrost to work you need the AC on.

Not really. Millions of cars without A/C have defrosters that work just
fine. And even cars that run the A/C in the defrost mode, don't run the
compressor if the outside temperature is below 40 degrees F (the A/C won't
actually work if the outside temperature is too low). Just heating the air
lowers it's humidity. Starting out with cooler air leaving the evaporator is
just more effective since it will have an even lower humidity when heated
(cooling the air removes moisture by condensing it, heating the air back up
lowers the humidity). However, the more I think about the description of the
problem, the more I am convinced that the air was not hot enough. Natalie
mentioned that running the wipers helped remove fog from the outside of the
windshield. No matter how low the humidity of the air is inside the car, it
won't help evaporate moisture from the outside of the windshield unless it
is hot enough to warm up the windshield.

Ed
Scott in Florida - 27 Nov 2007 01:15 GMT
>> The AC removes the humidity.  For the defrost to work you need the AC on.
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>Ed

Here in Florida with high humidity.....not running the a/c compressor does
NOT work to remove humidity.

The ONLY way you can take the condensed water off the inside is to run the
A/C compressor.

If the temperature is lower than 40, I agree with you.

Turning the heat only on in Florida does not clear the windshield.

Signature

Scott in  Florida

Ed White - 27 Nov 2007 02:38 GMT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott in Florida" <JustAskl@verizon.net>
Newsgroups: alt.autos.toyota
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: 2000 Echo "bass-ackward" defroster

> Here in Florida with high humidity.....not running the a/c compressor does
> NOT work to remove humidity.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Turning the heat only on in Florida does not clear the windshield.

Come on - you don't really believe this do you? If the air is hot enough it
will evaporate the moisture. Having to suffer through very hot air coming
out of the vents might not be pleasant, but it will work to defrost the
windshield. Just heating the air lowers the humidity. For sure in hot
weather using the A/C is a better way, but cars without A/C existed in
Florida, at least in the distant past. Usually just heating the windshield
up enough to get it above the temperature of the surrounding air is enough
to clear the fog from the inside. Of course this might take awhile, but it
will do the trick. Raising the temperature of 80 degree 90% RH air to 95
degrees has the same sort of effect on the humidity of the air as raising 40
degree 100% RH air coming from the A/C Evaporator to 80 degrees. Either way
you get air with a much lower relative humidity. Of course, one way is
unpleasant if it is already hot in the car.

I'll bet you have a different problem in Florida - if you leave the car on
defrost for a long time in the summer, you can actually cool the windshield
enough so that the outside of the glass starts to fog. When I first got it
(long ago..) my old F150 always (and deliberately) diverted some of the air
from the HVAC system through the defroster vents. On a long trip at night,
this would result in the windshield fogging from the outside. Ford issued a
TSB with a fix (they recalibrated something in the system) and fixed this
characteristic. I suspect it was not a problem for people in the north or
west, but in NC the summer humidity was high enough for the problem to be
experienced, especially at night.

Ed
Scott in Florida - 27 Nov 2007 14:22 GMT
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Scott in Florida" <JustAskl@verizon.net>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>Come on - you don't really believe this do you?

Of course I believe it.  I live here!

Turning on the heat does NOT remove humidity from the air to clear the
windshield.

To remove humidity the air needs to go thru the air conditioner to cool the
air and remove moisture.

Having the air on 're circulate actually adds more moisture to the air (from
your breath).

ps No 'normal' person turns the heat on high when the temperature is 90 and
the humidity is 90....LOL

>If the air is hot enough it
>will evaporate the moisture. Having to suffer through very hot air coming
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>defrost for a long time in the summer, you can actually cool the windshield
>enough so that the outside of the glass starts to fog.

That is very true, but if you are moving....only a very small area around
the vent has a bit of condensation.

>When I first got it
>(long ago..) my old F150 always (and deliberately) diverted some of the air
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>Ed
>
Signature

Scott in  Florida

EdV - 27 Nov 2007 14:41 GMT
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Scott in Florida" <JustA...@verizon.net>
[quoted text clipped - 62 lines]
> --
> Scott in  Florida

Hi Nat, check your cabin air filter as well, if its dirty and clogged
up, air might not circulate well and cause a delay in dehumidifying
the air inside your car. Its worth a try, not sure if it will work, a
dirty cabin filter needs to be checked anyway.
JoeSpareBedroom - 27 Nov 2007 14:45 GMT
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Scott in Florida" <JustA...@verizon.net>
[quoted text clipped - 86 lines]
> the air inside your car. Its worth a try, not sure if it will work, a
> dirty cabin filter needs to be checked anyway.

Suggestion: Take a closer look at the message display in google to be sure
you are actually responding to the person who asked the original question.
EdV - 27 Nov 2007 14:55 GMT
> Suggestion: Take a closer look at the message display in google to be sure
> you are actually responding to the person who asked the original question.

Thanks, point taken
Wickeddoll - 28 Nov 2007 00:18 GMT
"EdV"
, Scott in Florida <
, "Ed White"
>> wrote:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 82 lines]
> the air inside your car. Its worth a try, not sure if it will work, a
> dirty cabin filter needs to be checked anyway.

Thanks, but it's the *outside* that fog up.  The inside was clear.  Go
figure.

Natalie
JoeSpareBedroom - 28 Nov 2007 00:31 GMT
> "EdV"
> , Scott in Florida <
[quoted text clipped - 92 lines]
>
> Natalie

FWAP!  Turn on the wipers, Einstein.
Wickeddoll - 28 Nov 2007 00:58 GMT
"JoeSpareBedroom" ...
> "Wickeddoll" ...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 97 lines]
>
> FWAP!  Turn on the wipers, Einstein.

That's what I did, brain trust.  But that doesn't help the side windows, or
the rear, where my defroster is busted.

:-P

Natalie
C. E. White - 27 Nov 2007 14:50 GMT
> On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:38:34 -0500, "Ed White"
> <cewhite3@mindspring.com>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> the
> windshield.

It doesn't "remove" the moisture, but it does change the relative
humidity. If you take 77 degree air, 90% relative humidity and heat it
to 95 degrees, the relative humidity will drop to something like 45%.
This will clear the fog off the windshield. You have fog on the
windshield becasue the temperature of the windshied glass is below the
dewpoint of air in the car. If the air in the car is 77 degrees and
90% RH, and the glass temperature is below 73 degrees or so, the
windshield will fog up on the inside. There are two ways to clear the
fog from the windshield - 1) raise the temperature of the glass above
the dew point or 2) lower the dew point of the air in the car. Just
using the defroster with hot air alone will do both - raise the
temperature of the glass and lower the dew point of the air in the
car. Using the A/C and not adding heat only does one thing - it lowers
the dew point of the air in car. Directing the air through the A/C and
then through the heater is the most effective way to clear a
windshield of fog, since you can greatly lower the dew point of the
air in the car and heat the windshield above the dew point at the same
time. Air coming out of the A/C evaporator is actually at or very near
100% relative humidity and 40 degrees F. Heating it back to 80 degrees
F lowers the realtive humidity to around 20%. This alone will clear
the fog off the windshield, but if you heated the air to 95 degrees
you would lower the relative humidity even further (10% or so) and
since you are also heating the glass, you would remove the fog much
faster.

> To remove humidity the air needs to go thru the air conditioner to
> cool the
> air and remove moisture.

What you say is true, but it is only part of the story. What matters
for removing the fog from the windshield is the dew point of the air
in the car, not how much moisture is in the air. Heating the air
lowers the dew point. Cooling the air to remove moisture and then
reheating it, lowers it even further.

> Having the air on 're circulate actually adds more moisture to the
> air (from
> your breath).

I agree 100%. People often don't understand this point and they think
using recirculate is better for defogging, but it isn't.

> ps No 'normal' person turns the heat on high when the temperature is
> 90 and
> the humidity is 90....LOL

Honestly, when it is 90 degrees out, do you have much of a problem
with the windshield fogging?  I agree if it is hot that running the
A/C is the way to go. However, if you are in a hurry to defog the
windshield, heating the air will do it faster. Once the windshield is
clear, just using the A/C should keep it that way. But, if you don't
have A/C, heating the air will also defog the windshield. While
blowing hot air out of the defroster (defogger) might not be pleasant,
seeing beats not seeing every time.

Ed
JoeSpareBedroom - 27 Nov 2007 14:56 GMT
>> Having the air on 're circulate actually adds more moisture to the air
>> (from
>> your breath).
>
> I agree 100%. People often don't understand this point and they think
> using recirculate is better for defogging, but it isn't.

Imagine what their bathrooms must look like after a few years of applying
the same concept during showers.
C. E. White - 27 Nov 2007 15:02 GMT
>>> Having the air on 're circulate actually adds more moisture to the
>>> air (from
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Imagine what their bathrooms must look like after a few years of
> applying the same concept during showers.

LOL - well actually my bathroom does apply this concept. The stupid
fan just moves the air around (no outside exhaust) and the room
doesn't have a window. On the other hand, I do actually know how to
use chemicals to kill the mold and mildew.

Ed
EdV - 27 Nov 2007 15:11 GMT
On Nov 27, 10:02 am, "C. E. White" <cewhi...@removemindspring.com>
wrote:

> >>> Having the air on 're circulate actually adds more moisture to the
> >>> air (from
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Ed

On the 2007 Camry, once you turn the dial to have the air blown near
the windshield, the recirculate is automatically turned to fresh and
cannot be changed.
C. E. White - 27 Nov 2007 15:16 GMT
> On the 2007 Camry, once you turn the dial to have the air blown near
> the windshield, the recirculate is automatically turned to fresh and
> cannot be changed.

Score one for Toyota. Actually I suspect a lot of vehicles do this,
but don't make it obvious.

Ed
Wickeddoll - 28 Nov 2007 00:19 GMT
"JoeSpareBedroom" ...
> "C. E. White" ...
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Imagine what their bathrooms must look like after a few years of applying
> the same concept during showers.

*fwap* gimme a little credit, will ya?

Natalie
Scott in Florida - 27 Nov 2007 15:47 GMT
>I agree if it is hot that running the
>A/C is the way to go. However, if you are in a hurry to defog the
>windshield, heating the air will do it faster.

I disagree!!!!

A/C is instantaneous.

Heat....you have to wait for the engine to warm up.

Signature

Scott in  Florida

JoeSpareBedroom - 27 Nov 2007 15:51 GMT
>>I agree if it is hot that running the
>>A/C is the way to go. However, if you are in a hurry to defog the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Heat....you have to wait for the engine to warm up.

He doesn't seem to understand that you can have warm air and AC
simultaneously. AC doesn't necessarily mean cold.

But, around here, turning on the AC when the engine is cold will often
result in ice on the inside of the windshield. Doesn't matter if the AC is
instantaneous. With the right combo of humidity (in the car) and
temperature, the results can be annoying. You have to wait for the car to
warm up.
C. E. White - 27 Nov 2007 17:28 GMT
> He doesn't seem to understand that you can have warm air and AC
> simultaneously. AC doesn't necessarily mean cold.

Sure I do. Go back and read my original post. I said "I agree if it is
hot that running the A/C is the way to go.However, if you are in a
hurry to defog the windshield, heating the air will do it faster" and
"What you say is true, but it is only part of the story. What matters
for removing the fog from the windshield is the dew point of the air
in the car, not how much moisture is in the air. Heating the air
lowers the dew point. Cooling the air to remove moisture and then
reheating it, lowers it even further." All A/Cs reheat the defroster
air to some extent after it leaves the evaporator. Blowing 40 degree
100% relative humidity air onto the windshield is not a good way to
defog a windshield. Blowing 70 degree 40% relative humidity air onto
the windshield is a good way to defog it.

It seems to me Scott doesn't want to acknowledge that you can defog
the windshield with heat alone. I know, if it is hot, using heat alone
is unplesant, but it will work. And of course, as Scott pointed out,
you won't have heat until after the engine warms up at least a little.
You'll have A/C immeadiately - except if it is cold outside (less than
40 F). In this case, you have to use heat.

> But, around here, turning on the AC when the engine is cold will
> often result in ice on the inside of the windshield. Doesn't matter
> if the AC is instantaneous. With the right combo of humidity (in the
> car) and temperature, the results can be annoying. You have to wait
> for the car to warm up.

If it is that cold, the A/C won't turn on at all. You might press the
A/C on button, and the indicator light (if present) might even claim
it is on, but the compressor won't run. All A/C systems have some
means of preventing the A/C compressor from running at low ambient
temperatures. Otherwise you can have the refrigerant turn to liquid in
the compressor - a very bad thing. A/C units are designed to work with
temperatures  above the freezing point of water. Once the outside
temperature is below freezing, they won't work (at least until you get
the underhood temperatures significantly above zero).

Ed
C. E. White - 27 Nov 2007 17:44 GMT
>>I agree if it is hot that running the
>>A/C is the way to go. However, if you are in a hurry to defog the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Heat....you have to wait for the engine to warm up.

Duh, I thought that was obvious. And A/C is not instantaneous if it is
cold outside.

So how often does the inside of your windshield fog up in Florida? For
me, in central NC, I rarely have to worry about fog on the inside of
the windshield during the warm parts of the year (say Mid-May to
Mid-September) and if I do, then it is because it is cool and rainy
and I am already on the road - and a little heat is a good thing. I
can't remember the last time I got in my car in warm weather and had
fog on the inside of the car the first thing in the morning. In the
late spring and early fall, the windshield is likely to be foggy both
inside and out in the morning. When the fog is the worst, it is often
to cool for the A/C compressor to engage, so the A/C is worthless, and
I have to wait for at least a little heat (usually a couple of minutes
is enough). In the coldest months, the real problem is frost, or
actual ice on the outside of the windshield. The A/C is not an option
for this.

Just to be clear - I agree A/C can clear fog off the inside of the
windshield, as long as it is warm enough for the compressor to engage.
And if it is that warm, it can clear it rapidly. However, you can also
clear the fog with just heated air, but of course, you have to wait
for the car to warm up.

All this talk has made be nostalgic for my favorite device for
clearing a windshield - the Insta-Clear Windshield. It used a high
frequency alternating current to directly heat the windshield (the
windshield had a very thin nickel coating). I had one, I loved it,
they quit selling it (at least on cars I can afford). I hung on to a
1986 Sable for an extra 3 years just because it had that feature. In
the morning you got in the car, started it, pressed the windshield
defrost button, waited a few seconds, ran the wiper once, and you were
off, even if there was frost on the windshield.

Ed
Scott in Florida - 27 Nov 2007 17:56 GMT
>>>I agree if it is hot that running the
>>>A/C is the way to go. However, if you are in a hurry to defog the
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>So how often does the inside of your windshield fog up in Florida?

Now that you mention it....not too often.

Normally on cool days (cool for me is anything less than 80...LOL).

> For
>me, in central NC, I rarely have to worry about fog on the inside of
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>Ed
>
Signature

Scott in  Florida

C. E. White - 27 Nov 2007 00:29 GMT
> It has been pouring rain lately.  I took my daughter to work today, and as
> soon as the car left the garage it fogged up so completely I had to use
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Natalie

Natalie,

Most cars automatically run the A/C compressor when in the defrost mode,
even if you don't push the defrost button. If you want to see if yours does,
push the defrost button with the engine running, open the hood, take a look,
and see if the compressor is engaged. BTW, even cars that run the A/C
compressor in the defrost mode, don't run the compressor if the temperature
is below 40 degrees F or so.

Which vents are you talking about? Do you mean you switched the system to
the recirculate mode, or that you literally closed the vents inside the car?
If it is the latter (you closed the interior vents), then the defroster
worked better because you forced more air out of the defroster vents by
blocking off the other paths for the air.

Where did you set the temperature? Cold air is not as effective at removing
moisture. I can think of a few potential factors that might have made your
problems worse or confused the issue:

1) The HVAC Mode Door is not properly adjusted (this is the door in the
system that direct air to different areas - floor, vents, defroster). As a
result insufficient air is directed through the defroster vents.
2) The A/C  evaporator case drain hose is plugged, leaving water in the
evaporator case, resulting in the air from the defroster having excessively
high moisture.
3) You didn't wait for the engine water temperature to get hot, so you were
blowing cool moist air onto the windshield - this won't do a good job of
defogging the windshield, however, by closing the interior vents, you
directed a lot of air onto the windshield which helped.
4) Your problem was actually moisture condensing onto the outside of the
windshield (you said running the wipers helped). The only way the defroster
(defogger) can clear the outside of the windshield is to heat the glass up
enough to evaporate the moisture condensing on the outside. For this
application, it is irrelevant whether the A/C is engaged, or whether you are
recirculating interior air. The only thing that matter is that the air is
hot. I suspect maybe the reason the defogger started working is that while
you were trying things, the temperature of the air increased and that by
closing the interior vents you directed more air onto the windshield, which
warmed it up enough to evaporate the moisture on the inside and outside of
the windshield.

In general I think you get the best results from the defroster (defogger
really) with the temperature control on full hot, and in the exterior air
mode.

What did you mean when you said - "The button for defrost clearly says to
open the vents." I've never seen anything like this. I suppose they use the
interior vents to defog the side windows.

What's wrong with your rear defroster?  If it is a broken "wire" in the
grid, you should look at the products available from
http://www.frostfighter.com/ .

Regards,

Ed White
Wickeddoll - 27 Nov 2007 00:51 GMT
"C. E. White" ...

> "Wickeddoll" ...
*snipping for brevity*

> Natalie,
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> A/C compressor in the defrost mode, don't run the compressor if the
> temperature is below 40 degrees F or so.

I don't think the car was that cool.  Our high was about 65 today, though it
sat in the garage all weekend, and all day yesterday.

> Which vents are you talking about? Do you mean you switched the system to
> the recirculate mode, or that you literally closed the vents inside the
> car? If it is the latter (you closed the interior vents), then the
> defroster worked better because you forced more air out of the defroster
> vents by blocking off the other paths for the air.

Recirculate - the vents were still open.

> Where did you set the temperature? Cold air is not as effective at
> removing moisture. I can think of a few potential factors that might have
> made your problems worse or confused the issue:

I put it at about medium-high hot.

> 1) The HVAC Mode Door is not properly adjusted (this is the door in the
> system that direct air to different areas - floor, vents, defroster). As a
> result insufficient air is directed through the defroster vents.

Very possible - according to my son, the defroster wasn't working at least a
year ago, but since I always drive with the recirculater on, I didn't
notice.

> 2) The A/C  evaporator case drain hose is plugged, leaving water in the
> evaporator case, resulting in the air from the defroster having
> excessively high moisture.

hmmm

> 3) You didn't wait for the engine water temperature to get hot, so you
> were blowing cool moist air onto the windshield - this won't do a good job
> of defogging the windshield, however, by closing the interior vents, you
> directed a lot of air onto the windshield which helped.

OK

> 4) Your problem was actually moisture condensing onto the outside of the
> windshield (you said running the wipers helped). The only way the
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> onto the windshield, which warmed it up enough to evaporate the moisture
> on the inside and outside of the windshield.

No, the change was instantaneous.  You could see the fog clearing via the
normal venting (starting in the corner of the window closest to the
defrosting vents)

> In general I think you get the best results from the defroster (defogger
> really) with the temperature control on full hot, and in the exterior air
> mode.

I'll try that, thanks.

> What did you mean when you said - "The button for defrost clearly says to
> open the vents." I've never seen anything like this. I suppose they use
> the interior vents to defog the side windows.

It says to take it off recirculate, actually, now that you've shown me that
clarification.  All of our Toyotas have had that indicator.

> What's wrong with your rear defroster?  If it is a broken "wire" in the
> grid, you should look at the products available from
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Ed White

Thanks for a very helpful reply, Ed (I appreciate the other replies, but
this one was the most detailed)

I didn't ask them what the problem was, but I'll certainly look into getting
the parts from that site.

Thanks again!

Natalie
JoeSpareBedroom - 27 Nov 2007 02:59 GMT
> "C. E. White" ...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> I don't think the car was that cool.  Our high was about 65 today, though
> it sat in the garage all weekend, and all day yesterday.

Natalie, is there anything you're not telling us? Anything you'd like to
confess? For instance, did you recently leave the windows open when it
rained, so the inside of the car is holding an abnormally high amount of
humidity?
Wickeddoll - 27 Nov 2007 03:05 GMT
"JoeSpareBedroom" <...
> "Wickeddoll"...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> rained, so the inside of the car is holding an abnormally high amount of
> humidity?

Gimme a little credit, Joe.  I usually *never* have my windows open, because
I blast my iPod, and I hate the city "aroma."

Natalie
Elmo P. Shagnasty - 27 Nov 2007 00:35 GMT
> I remember you guys saying you should turn on the A/C in the winter, which I
> thought was pretty weird.

Because you don't understand what "air conditioning" really is.
Wickeddoll - 27 Nov 2007 00:45 GMT
"Elmo P. Shagnasty"...

>> I remember you guys saying you should turn on the A/C in the winter,
>> which I
>> thought was pretty weird.
>
> Because you don't understand what "air conditioning" really is.

And you didn't tell me.  :-)

I'm from Florida - AC means one thing alone: We're no longer miserably hot.

Natalie
Elmo P. Shagnasty - 27 Nov 2007 01:08 GMT
> > Because you don't understand what "air conditioning" really is.
>
> And you didn't tell me.  :-)
>
> I'm from Florida - AC means one thing alone: We're no longer miserably hot.

AC isn't about cooling.  AC is about removing humidity from the air.

Your body has a natural cooling system--but it doesn't work well when
the dew point is high and there's no energy left to remove the moisture
that's collecting from your skin.

The goal of AC is to remove moisture so that your body's natural cooling
system can work.  AC removes moisture by cooling the air.

It's natural to make the mistake of thinking that the primary goal of AC
is cool air, but that's just not so.

Here's a thought:  imagine a very damp yet cool air that still doesn't
allow your body's cooling mechanism--sweat--to be taken away from your
body.  You may sense cool temperatures, but you also are very, very
uncomfortable.

It's not about cooling.  Primarily, it's about removing moisture.

"Defrost"--remove moisture.
Wickeddoll - 27 Nov 2007 01:29 GMT
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <

>> > Because you don't understand what "air conditioning" really is.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> "Defrost"--remove moisture.

Much better than your first response, thanks.

:-)

Natalie
Jeff - 27 Nov 2007 00:47 GMT
> It has been pouring rain lately.  I took my daughter to work today, and as
> soon as the car left the garage it fogged up so completely I had to use the
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> defrost clearly says to open the vents, but for some reason, that makes it
> worse.

Boy! That must be some big button. The buttons in my car have symbols on
them, not words.

> I remember you guys saying you should turn on the A/C in the winter, which I
> thought was pretty weird.  I didn't push the cooling button, but just had it
> re-use inside air.  The windows cleared right up.
>
> Any thoughts?

You were pulling in cold, moist air that condensed on the windshield. In
my car, the A/C goes on at about 50 F when it is on the defog setting
(to dry the air going to the windshield). Below about 50 F, there
usually is not enough moisture to fog up the window.

So my guess is that when you closed the vent, the air around the
windshield warmed up enough to let the moisture evaporate from the
windshield.

Jeff

> Natalie
Wickeddoll - 27 Nov 2007 00:53 GMT
>> It has been pouring rain lately.  I took my daughter to work today, and
>> as soon as the car left the garage it fogged up so completely I had to
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Boy! That must be some big button. The buttons in my car have symbols on
> them, not words.

*heating up the denuding fork*

>> I remember you guys saying you should turn on the A/C in the winter,
>> which I thought was pretty weird.  I didn't push the cooling button, but
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Jeff

Hey, if I can get away without having them work on my front defroster, I'm
all for it!

:-D

Natalie
sharx35 - 27 Nov 2007 01:01 GMT
> It has been pouring rain lately.  I took my daughter to work today, and as
> soon as the car left the garage it fogged up so completely I had to use
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Natalie

Reusing inside air is about the worst thing you can do to lessen fogging of
your windows. Turning on the AC helps, as it dehumidifies the air.
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.