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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / January 2008Shop says to change trans fluid every 6 months?
Hi everyone, Hope you are all doing well. I'm the guy in the Boston area with a pristine '89 Corolla SR5 with 152k miles. I haven't posted in a long time since the car hasn't had any issues. Every time I bring it in for an oil change, one of the mechanics at the shop keeps wanting me to sell him my car. Anyhow, right now I'm asking a question for my little brother: He has a '97 Camry I4 automatic with 67k miles. He got it at 65k miles and the previous owner, my sister, likely did not change the trans fluid. After he did get the car, he did get the transmission fluid changed; the mechanic said that the original fluid was looking pretty dirty, but that he changed it and it was fine now. When he got the car at 65k miles, we took it a shop that we know and trust and they serviced everything on the car-- new timing belt, water pump, drive belts, oil change, ATF change, etc. etc. My brother moved to Los Angeles and just took his car in for its first oil change there-- he went to an independent Toyota/Honda shop with a good reputation. He said that the mechanic working on his car told him that the transmission fluid looks a bit dirty, and recommended that he have the transmission fluid drained and filled every time he goes in for an oil change, for the next few oil changes. He said the shop said that flushing the system is an option, but not a good option (they did not elaborate). My questions for all of you: 1. have you heard of draining and filling your ATF with every oil change for several oil changes in a row? 2. am I correct in assuming that my brother's car's ATF could be dirty despite a drain and fill 2000 miles ago, because 1. a drain and fill doesn't remove all the pre-existing ATF, and 2. if there was some gunk in the system originally, then it may have gradually dissolved into the ATF these last 2000 miles? If #1 is correct then I'll tell my brother to do it, I just don't want him spend $70 for an ATF change every time he gets his oil changed these next few times if there's no value to it. I'm not in California so can't say how his ATF looks, and he himself doesn't know how to assess it. Thanks, John > Hi everyone, > Hope you are all doing well. I'm the guy in the Boston area with a [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > Thanks, > John John, I'll respond in the reverse order of your questions. Draining and refilling the ATF does not remove all of the ATF, so some of the old stuff will remain in the transmission. Transmission flushes are OK when done about every 48,000 miles but if the transmission fluid is very dirty, flushing can lodge solid material in the valve body and cause trouble. This is probably the reason the shop did not recommend one, and IMO, the shop gave your brother good advice. Transmission fluid becomes dark because the friction material gradually wears off of the clutch packs and is carried away by the ATF. The friction material does not actually dissolve, it is just suspended in the fluid. Changing the ATF every oil change will dilute the amount of suspended solids in the ATF, and the more you change the ATF, the more the solids will be diluted and the clearer the fluid will become. People do this in order to get the ATF as clean as possible, but the factory does not think this is necessary as it is not listed in the maintenance requirements or factory service manual. As a compromise, your brother can get one more additional ATF change, but IMO, more than that is not really necessary.  SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >> Hi everyone, >> Hope you are all doing well. I'm the guy in the Boston area with a [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > As a compromise, your brother can get one more additional ATF change, but > IMO, more than that is not really necessary. I agree completely with Ray on this, with a caveat. I would suggest that this car is a very low mileage car, and the stuff to worry about collecting in a valve body is not likely to exist IF there are no other symptoms of transmission trouble. I agree with his suggestion of changing the fluid again if you are worried about it, but after only 2k miles since it was changed last, I'd not do anything with it until the next routine oil change is scheduled, which should be at 5k from the last one. The part of this story that bothers me is that the OP reportedly had the car serviced (oil and fluid changed) only 2,000 ago, and somebody is telling him to do it again. The oil change interval on that car should be scheduled after 5,000 miles, not 2,000. It is reasonable in a very few instances to change oil after only 2,000 miles, but in this instance time -- at least a year -- would be the determining factor that says fresh oil is needed. Hi Jeff, Good point. My brother lives about 1.5 miles from work so has been taking the car on a ton of very short trips. About 7 months had passed during the 2000 miles he had driven the car. I was concerned that all those short trips are not ideal for the engine, so I'd told him to get his oil changed every 6 months. For someone who drives very little, I have never been sure what the best oil change interval is. I should tell my brother to pull the dipstick regularly to check I guess. Even more extreme case--my landlord is elderly, only does local driving, and drives her car 1000 miles a year. She gets the oil changed just once a year, which is probably about right for her situation. Thanks, John > The part of this story that bothers me is that the OP reportedly had the car > serviced (oil and fluid changed) only 2,000 ago, and somebody is telling him [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > - Show quoted text - > Hi Jeff, > Good point. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > changed just once a year, which is probably about right for her > situation. Your brother and your landlord should change the oil once a year. Your brother is likely to jump in the car on occasion and make a trip to Vegas or San Francisco, or to the mountains for a weekend of snow-boarding, and he should do any or all of these while he lives out here. You are right that the short trips of a mile and a half are bad, he should take the long way home once a week just to heat the motor up and evacuate the condensation that happens because the engine never gets properly warmed up on his short trips. >Hi Jeff, >Good point. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Thanks, >John Go to Toyota.com and get the maintenance schedule for your vehicle. Looks like Oil Change is every 5000 miles or 4 Months, whichever occurs first. In your brother's case, 4 months looks right. SignatureScott in Florida Hi Ray, Thanks again for your great advice. As always, much appreciated, and I've passed it onto my brother. Take care, John > Hi everyone, > Hope you are all doing well. I'm the guy in the Boston area with a [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > Thanks, > John I'm guessing that the mechanic thinks he's found himself a fish. I would agree to the fluid change only if the price was $7, not $7-0h. Transmission fluid replenishing seems to be another profit center, like replacing brake fluid and putting nitrogen in tires. Forgeddaboudit. On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:26:28 -0800, johnyang97 wrote: > Every time I bring it in > for an oil change, one of the mechanics at the shop keeps wanting me > to sell him my car. Me too... Hey Hachi, How many vehicles do you have right now? I thought that you are overflowing with too many cars. Eventually if I do feel the need to sell the SR5 (e.g., if my wife wants us to get a bigger car) I can drop you a line, John > On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:26:28 -0800, johnyang97 wrote: > > Every time I bring it in > > for an oil change, one of the mechanics at the shop keeps wanting me > > to sell him my car. > > Me too... Hey Hachi, How many vehicles do you have right now? I thought that you are overflowing with too many cars. Eventually if I do feel the need to sell the SR5 (e.g., if my wife wants us to get a bigger car) YOUR WIFE makes decisions about cars??? Uh, who wears the pants in YOUR family? Are you p'whipped? Why would YOU need a bigger vehicle? Is she getting fat(ter)? I can drop you a line, John On Jan 28, 5:47 am, Hachiroku <Hachiroku_a...@ae86.gts> wrote: > On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:26:28 -0800, johnyang97 wrote: > > Every time I bring it in > > for an oil change, one of the mechanics at the shop keeps wanting me > > to sell him my car. > > Me too... Who says woman think size doesn't mater? ') > Hey Hachi, > How many vehicles do you have right now? I thought that you are > overflowing with too many cars. Eventually if I do feel the need to > sell the SR5 (e.g., if my wife wants us to get a bigger car) On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 11:26:30 -0800, johnyang97 wrote: > Hey Hachi, > How many vehicles do you have right now? I thought that you are [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > John 6 right now...two on the way out, the hachiroku...???? Might be getting too beyond to work on. Always looking for a nice 80's 'Yota... >> On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:26:28 -0800, johnyang97 wrote: >> > Every time I bring it in >> > for an oil change, one of the mechanics at the shop keeps wanting me >> > to sell him my car. >> >> Me too... Transmission fluid is RED. When the car is warmed up -- driven a few miles -- and in Park, pull the transmission dip stick, typically located near the fire wall on the passenger side of the car. The fluid on the stick should smell fresh, and be red. If it smells sour and is brown, then the fluid needs to be changed. The least expensive method of changing the fluid is to connect a machine to the transmission cooler hoses that go into the radiator. The machine them pumps fresh fluid through one of these hoses, and the old fluid is collected from the other hose. If the machine is connectyed properly, the fresh fluid will flow through the hoses in the reverse direction of normal flow, and this will collect any debris and push it out. I'll be the frist to admit this method is not the best, and might not even be preferred by transmission specialists, but flushing is a relatively routine service and this is the cheapest way to have it done. The best way, and the most expensive, is to remove the bottom pan of the transmission and replace a filter and screen, and a couple of seals and gaskets. I'd suggest that a car such as you describe -- no particular issues, and low miles -- will survive a simple flushing and you and your brother can continue to drive happy for years to come. I described the "least expensive method," assuming you do not have the skills or environment to do this work yourself, and would have to go to a shop to have it done. The very least way is to put your car on a couple of jackstands and drain the fluid yourself, and refill it. The problem with this is that unless you take the pan off of the bottom, you will not flush through all of the fluid, and a small amount will remain. I took my wife's minivan in to the shop and had the trans flushed for $70. It took them 15-ish minutes ... > Hi everyone, > Hope you are all doing well. I'm the guy in the Boston area with a [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > Thanks, > John johnyang97@yahoo.com wrote in news:993290ab-2be6-44df-818c-94fc54404624 @q77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com: > My questions for all of you: > 1. have you heard of draining and filling your ATF with every oil [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > gunk in the system originally, then it may have gradually dissolved > into the ATF these last 2000 miles? I've read Ray O's comments. I'd like to add some additional info. The tranny holds about 8 qts (or more). Each drain and fill is about 4 qts (more or less). The other 4qts (or more) is stuck in the torque converter and does not drain. After you drain and fill and drive, you mix the old in the converter with the new in the pan, so the "new" is going to look "dirty" almost immediately, even if it is actually in pretty good shape. The answer to this is to drain and fill several times during the year. This way the greater proportion of the fluid will permanently be clean and have functional additives. This is what I do, after some hard past experience. Brand-new Dexron ATF is a transparent Kool-Aid red. Normal use makes the tranny fluid cloudy fairly quickly. Cloudiness is most evident when you drain the fluid into a pan, where volume exaggerates the opacity. Cloudy fluid does NOT -- by itself -- mean it has lost its anti-corrosion and lubricative capabilities. > If #1 is correct then I'll tell my brother to do it, I just don't want > him spend $70 for an ATF change every time he gets his oil changed > these next few times if there's no value to it. There is considerable value to having a drain and fill done two or three or four times a year depending on mileage. Whether that value exceeds the $70 price is a personal question. I change mine myself (four times a year or more), so there's no labor charge for me. The job takes less time than an oil change and is usually performed during one. > I'm not in California > so can't say how his ATF looks, and he himself doesn't know how to > assess it. Assesssing it is pointless. Replacement according to a set schedule is the only thing that matters, whether Toyota say to or not. SignatureTegger |
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