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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / February 2008

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(OT:)Limbaugh stunned at Florida Primaries...

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Hachiroku - 30 Jan 2008 03:23 GMT
He said he couldn't believe an Independant could walk into a polling
place, take a Republican OR a Democratic ballot, and vote in the Primary,
and remain an Independant.

We've always done that in Mass. I am a declared Independant. It comes from
the old days when I was a Liberal, but didn't like a lot of the Deomcrat
politicians. And, check out my third cousin, Slivio Conte. See if you can
find one of his speeches. And bear in mind, he was a REPUBLICAN!!!!

So, next Tuesday, I'll walk in, declre myself a Democrat, grab a ballot,
and vote for Johjn Edwards.

Just to fu@k them up...
edspyhill01@yahoo.com - 30 Jan 2008 03:33 GMT
> He said he couldn't believe an Independant could walk into a polling
> place, take a Republican OR a Democratic ballot, and vote in the Primary,
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Just to fu@k them up...

Excellent.  We need John Edwards to stay in the race.

Ed S.
Hachiroku - 30 Jan 2008 03:34 GMT
>> He said he couldn't believe an Independant could walk into a polling
>> place, take a Republican OR a Democratic ballot, and vote in the
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Ed S.

(yeah....)
edspyhill01@yahoo.com - 30 Jan 2008 14:33 GMT
> >> He said he couldn't believe an Independant could walk into a polling
> >> place, take a Republican OR a Democratic ballot, and vote in the
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Too late.

John Edwards to Quit Presidential Race

By Dan Balz and Howard Schneider
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, January 30, 2008; 9:29 AM

John Edwards will end his presidential campaign today, a source close
to the Edwards campaign confirmed today.

The former senator is scheduled to speak in New Orleans this afternoon
-- an appearance billed as an ani-poverty speech that is now expected
to serve as the platform for ending his White House bid.

Edwards, the party's vice presidential nominee in 2004, has failed to
win any of the Democratic primaries so far, narrowly capturing second
place in Iowa and finishing a distant third in South Carolina. However
he has accumulated dozens of delegates in the process, and a potential
endorsement heading into the Super Tuesday round of primaries could be
important to top contenders Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-NY) and
Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.)
anon - 30 Jan 2008 12:37 GMT
> He said he couldn't believe an Independant could walk into a polling
> place, take a Republican OR a Democratic ballot, and vote in the Primary,
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Just to fu@k them up...

Being a foreigner (british) it seems to me that their in  lies the problem
with the electoral system in the US - why do you have to declare yourself a
lifelong fanatic for one party or another?

Is it a formal intention (are you on a list?), or can you 'go with the flow'
as it were?

anon
sharx35 - 30 Jan 2008 13:45 GMT
>> He said he couldn't believe an Independant could walk into a polling
>> place, take a Republican OR a Democratic ballot, and vote in the Primary,
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Being a foreigner (british) it seems to me that their in  lies the problem

Oh, yeah, the Brits with their oh-so-modern "first past the past" electoral
system, winner take all. Came from the 14th century, back when few of the
populace could read or write. The Brits steadfastly refuse to modernize
their system. Even as a Canadian, I know that one doesn't have to make a
lifelong committment to the Democrats or Republicans to vote in a state's
primary.  To the Brit: Google is your friend--try to educate yourself BEFORE
shooting off.

> with the electoral system in the US - why do you have to declare yourself
> a lifelong fanatic for one party or another?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> anon
C. E. White - 30 Jan 2008 14:13 GMT
>>> He said he couldn't believe an Independant could walk into a
>>> polling
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> Republicans to vote in a state's primary.  To the Brit: Google is
> your friend--try to educate yourself BEFORE shooting off.

The SO and I were talking about primaries in general last night. She
was wondering how the Democratic Party could decide that the results
of the Florida Primary were largely irrelevant by not awarding any
delegates (because Florida moved it primary up on the calendar). I
told her the Democratic Party could pick a candidate any way they
pleased since they are not actually a government agency. And then I
said, I don't understand why states finance Primary Elections since
they are for a non-governmental organization and the results are not
binding. It is as if Florida paid for the Disney Stockholders meeting
and board of directors election. It is bad enough that we have to
divide people into two major camps (plus other smaller ones), but why
am I paying for a private organization's candidate selection process?
I keep hearing "two party system" but the last time I checked neither
the Democrat or Republican Parties are mentioned in the Constitution.
I want my own primary so we can select a candidate for the Ed Party.

Ed
Jeff Strickland - 30 Jan 2008 19:54 GMT
>>>> He said he couldn't believe an Independant could walk into a polling
>>>> place, take a Republican OR a Democratic ballot, and vote in the
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
>
> Ed

If a state was holding a primary election in a vacuum, then your question
would be valid. The fact is, most states are already holding an election on
the date of the primary, and the primary is not an significant additional
burden to the balloting that is already taking place.

Having said that (and not knowing the specifics of Florida), if an election
date is moved and the previouis date is kept on the calendar for another
election -- as is the case here in California -- then there is a cost burden
to the state. California has an election on the calendar for the first week
in June, but by then the primary election is pretty much a moot point and
California, as a consequence, has very little impact on the primaries, yet
has the single largest prize in terms of delegate count. So, California
moved its primaries to Feb 5 (actually, the date is the first Tuesday after
the first Monday in February -- there is no vote on Feb. 1 if that date
falls on a Tuesday), and they also have an election on the old date in June.

Our vote on Feb.5 is essentially in a vacuum, there is no other reason to go
to the polls in Feb, and the stuff on the ballot along with the primaries
could easily be on the ballot in June if there was no voting in Feb. To
close the election date in June, we have to amend our state constitution,
and in my opinion, we either should make the amendment or suffer the
consequence of having primaries in June. We should not have ballots on both
dates, the one in February and the one in June.
Hachiroku - 31 Jan 2008 02:51 GMT
>  I want my own primary so we can select a candidate for the
> Ed Party.

Who would that be, Ed?
C. E. White - 31 Jan 2008 12:49 GMT
>>  I want my own primary so we can select a candidate for the
>> Ed Party.
>
> Who would that be, Ed?

Are you available?

Ed
Hachiroku - 01 Feb 2008 03:53 GMT
>>>  I want my own primary so we can select a candidate for the
>>> Ed Party.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Ed

Nah. I'll sit back and watch Hullary finish us off...

More jobs to India, Hillary?
anon - 30 Jan 2008 15:14 GMT
> Oh, yeah, the Brits with their oh-so-modern "first past the past"
> electoral system, winner take all. Came from the 14th century, back when
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> a state's primary.  To the Brit: Google is your friend--try to educate
> yourself BEFORE shooting off.

Easy, tiger!  Was only asking.

anon
sharx35 - 31 Jan 2008 04:59 GMT
>> Oh, yeah, the Brits with their oh-so-modern "first past the past"
>> electoral system, winner take all. Came from the 14th century, back when
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> anon

Heh. Here in Canada, if you are a Member of Parliament and don't vote the
party line, consider it to be the end of your political career. Guaranteed,
you will never get any political appointments. Guaranteed, the leader of
your party will NOT sign your nomination papers, come the next election. All
you could do would be to run as an Independent...99.99999999% of whom NEVER
win.
Now, occasionally there is what we call a Free Vote, where members are free
to actually vote for what is best for their constituents but don't forget
for a moment that the party leaders don't take note how their members vote.
What goes around WILL come around, when the perks are divied up.
witfal - 30 Jan 2008 15:53 GMT
>> Being a foreigner (british) it seems to me that their in  lies the problem
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> primary.  To the Brit: Google is your friend--try to educate yourself BEFORE
> shooting off.

Have you ever watched sessions of the House of Commons on BBC?

Talk about controlled chaos.
Jeff Strickland - 30 Jan 2008 19:56 GMT
> Have you ever watched sessions of the House of Commons on BBC?
>
> Talk about controlled chaos.

Controlled? By whom?

<snicker>
larry moe 'n curly - 30 Jan 2008 21:38 GMT
]

> > Have you ever watched sessions of the House of Commons on BBC?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> <snicker>

The laws of physics?
witfal - 31 Jan 2008 04:53 GMT
> ]
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> The laws of physics?

Or the bigger fist.
larry moe 'n curly - 31 Jan 2008 07:54 GMT
> > ]
>>> Have you ever watched sessions of the House of Commons on BBC?
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Or the bigger fist.

(Mfist)(Vfist) = (Mhead)(Vhead)
witfal - 31 Jan 2008 14:49 GMT
>>>> Have you ever watched sessions of the House of Commons on BBC?
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> (Mfist)(Vfist) = (Mhead)(Vhead)

Perfect.
Hachiroku - 31 Jan 2008 02:50 GMT
>>> Being a foreigner (british) it seems to me that their in  lies the
>>> problem
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Talk about controlled chaos.

My wife used to get a real kick out of those.
Jeff Strickland - 30 Jan 2008 19:42 GMT
>> He said he couldn't believe an Independant could walk into a polling
>> place, take a Republican OR a Democratic ballot, and vote in the Primary,
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> anon

There is no requirement to be a "life long fanatic," although many are.
Indeed, it would seem that most are.

In any case, one is free to register for any party at any time, and change
from one party to another for any reason.

The only stipulation comes in Primary Elections, where each party throws up
a half-dozen or so candidates for a presidential race. Durinig these
primaries, the electorate selects the best that his party has to offer
during that election cycle. So, the Democrats and Republicans, and any other
party with multiple candidates to offer, all throw out 5 guys (for example).
The voters select from among the Party's candidates the one they like the
most, or least like the least (either way the result is the more favorable
candidate for that party).

The whole idea of a primary is to whittle down the candidates to the one
from each party, who then go head to head in the General Election that
happens on the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November in years
divisible by 4. As a practical matter, the off-parties tend to seldom have
multiple candidates that we select from in a Primary. We will start to see
the off-party candidates after the primary elections are over. There is no
advantage to an off-party candidate to show his hand at this early stage of
a presidential election cycle -- if there is only one candidate from an
off-party, then there is no point in him saying what makes him better than a
major party candidate because the major parties have not made clear whom the
candidate will be. Why point out your differences between you and Clinton,
or you and McCain, when in August when the real campaigns are hot-and-heavy,
your opponents are Huckabee and Obama?

At this juncture, the party candidates are supposed to be (in theory)
pointing out differences between theirselves and the other candidates from
their own party. Democrats know how they differ from Republicans, this
election is to show how Democrat X is different from Democrat Y, with the
same kind of discussion happening among the Republicans.

AFTER the primaries, the parties all have one candidate that presumably
everybody in the party stands behind. Once there is one candidate from each
of the major parties, then the off-party candidates enter the fray. Now,
each of the candidates has to show how he is better than all of the other
party candidates, and when the General Electioijn rolls around in November,
the electorate is free to vote for any candidate on the ticket. There is no
rule in a general election that says anybody to vote along party lines, this
rule only applies to primary elections, and dies not always apply -- some
states do not have this rule and they allow voters to cross party lines in a
primary. (Personally, I do not see any value in NOT making voters stay
inside the party in a primary, because there is no rule that prevents a
voter from changing his party so he can switch his party affiliation.)
Hachiroku - 31 Jan 2008 02:47 GMT
>> He said he couldn't believe an Independant could walk into a polling
>> place, take a Republican OR a Democratic ballot, and vote in the
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> with the electoral system in the US - why do you have to declare yourself
> a lifelong fanatic for one party or another?

In Massachusetts (and in Florida, too, I gather) you don't. I'm a
registered Independant.

But I do have to choose either a Democrat or Republican ballot for the
primary vote. No crossing lines.

In the General Election, the ballots have all candidates from all parties,
so you can pick and choose, even if you are a declared party member.

> Is it a formal intention (are you on a list?), or can you 'go with the
> flow' as it were?
>
> anon

When Gordon going to be holding his General Election???   ;)
Hachiroku - 31 Jan 2008 02:48 GMT
>> He said he couldn't believe an Independant could walk into a polling
>> place, take a Republican OR a Democratic ballot, and vote in the
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> anon

Oh, BTW, the funniest thing I've heard on the World Service in a LONG time:

"Brown is so indecisive, if his wife put three boxes of ceral on the
breakfast table, he wouldn't emerge from #10 until lunch...

the next day..."
Mike hunt - 30 Jan 2008 16:40 GMT
Why would anybody waist their vote like that?  Why not just skip voting and
save some time an money   LOL

> He said he couldn't believe an Independant could walk into a polling
> place, take a Republican OR a Democratic ballot, and vote in the Primary,
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Just to fu@k them up...
mack - 30 Jan 2008 17:05 GMT
> Why would anybody waist their vote like that?  Why not just skip voting
> and save some time an money   LOL

"waist their vote"?    How's that ?  Are they going to eat their vote and
let it go to "waist"?
witfal - 30 Jan 2008 17:16 GMT
>> Why would anybody waist their vote like that?  Why not just skip voting
>> and save some time an money   LOL
>>
> "waist their vote"?    How's that ?  Are they going to eat their vote and
> let it go to "waist"?

Maybe he meant that they're voting from the waist, or ....

....never mind.
Mike hunt - 30 Jan 2008 17:33 GMT
One might as well either was it is a waste   LOL

>> Why would anybody waist their vote like that?  Why not just skip voting
>> and save some time an money   LOL
>>
> "waist their vote"?    How's that ?  Are they going to eat their vote and
> let it go to "waist"?
witfal - 30 Jan 2008 18:51 GMT
> One might as well either was it is a waste

Wow.

> LOL

I'll say.
larry moe 'n curly - 30 Jan 2008 21:42 GMT
> > One might as well either was it is a waste
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> I'll say.

Ripple results at the price of fine single-malt scotch.
witfal - 31 Jan 2008 04:54 GMT
>>> One might as well either was it is a waste
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Ripple results at the price of fine single-malt scotch.

Try re-reading that first sentence over and over again.  Doing so just
has to be better than drugs.
mack - 30 Jan 2008 20:47 GMT
> One might as well either was it is a waste   LOL

either was?

funny, but the Y is far away on the keyboard from the S.

Are you drinking in the morning now, Mike?
Mike hunt - 30 Jan 2008 23:40 GMT
See, one can still understand what one meant, even if the spelling is
incorrect.  But it sure gives the anal retentive types something to do for
once   LOL

>> One might as well either was it is a waste   LOL
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Are you drinking in the morning now, Mike?
sharx35 - 31 Jan 2008 05:00 GMT
> See, one can still understand what one meant, even if the spelling is
> incorrect.  But it sure gives the anal retentive types something to do for
> once   LOL

Got to agree with you on this, Mike.

>>> One might as well either was it is a waste   LOL
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>>
>> Are you drinking in the morning now, Mike?
larry moe 'n curly - 31 Jan 2008 08:08 GMT
>Why would anybody waist their vote like that?  Why not just skip voting and
>save some time an money   LOL
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> incorrect.  But it sure gives the anal retentive types something to do for
> once   LOL

Wrote anal expulsive Mike.

It's just funny that pretentious Mike frequently tries to correct
others but in the process makes mistakes himself, as if he were drunk
or senile.
Mike hunt - 31 Jan 2008 16:36 GMT
Drunk and senile?   So that explains why you are always wrong?     LOL

"larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly@my-deja.com>

>as if he were drunk
> or senile.
Fred the Plumber - 31 Jan 2008 00:51 GMT

> Are you drinking in the morning now, Mike?

Only one who has been there would know about such things.
sharx35 - 31 Jan 2008 05:00 GMT
>> Are you drinking in the morning now, Mike?
>
> Only one who has been there would know about such things.

Bingo!!! In the morning is simply very late in the night.
Jeff Strickland - 30 Jan 2008 19:56 GMT
Or waste ...

> Why would anybody waist their vote like that?  Why not just skip voting
> and save some time an money   LOL
Jeff Strickland - 30 Jan 2008 17:09 GMT
> He said he couldn't believe an Independant could walk into a polling
> place, take a Republican OR a Democratic ballot, and vote in the Primary,
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Just to fu@k them up...

I think that open primaries are wrong. Open general elections are right --  
absolutely right. But a primary is not for people to make a chioce for the
guy they would like to be president, it is for the guy they would like to
see from their own party run for for president.

There is no value to the process for voters to jump party lines in a primary
election. The only value of jumping party lines in a primary is to be a
spoiler. I suppose there are other issues on a ballot that a line-jumper
would want to vote on (either for or against), so those that jump party
lines will want to go to the polls. But, they print ballots for Dems and
Reps that are identical, except for the primary election section, and an
independent should get a ballot that has the independent party candidate(s)
or no candidates, but not one with candidates from a party-not-his-own.

Having said all of that, my state is talking about moving to open primaries.
I can't think of any good reason to do that.

One can change their voter registration at any time, then change back again,
so why should there be open primaries? An "independent" voter, or any voter
that likes a candidate from another party in any given election cycle can
simply re-register to that party two weeks before an election, and then vote
for that candidate. If he changes his mind and wants to change party
affiliation for the general election, all he has to do is re-register again.

PS
John Edwards is gone. Don't bother to throw your vote away on him, you may
as throw it away on Billary (I mean, the Clintons) (I mean Hillary Clinton).
Hachiroku - 31 Jan 2008 02:43 GMT
> There is no value to the process for voters to jump party lines in a
> primary election. The only value of jumping party lines in a primary is to
> be a spoiler.

You can't jump party lines. If you are registered as a Republican, you GET
a Repugblican ballot. Likewise for a Democrat. Only those of us who are
registered Independants can do this. So, I will go in, ask for a
Republican ballot and vote.

(There was a Freudian slip in the above paragraph...I didn't correct it!  ;)
Jeff Strickland - 31 Jan 2008 09:30 GMT
>> There is no value to the process for voters to jump party lines in a
>> primary election. The only value of jumping party lines in a primary is
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> (There was a Freudian slip in the above paragraph...I didn't correct it!
> ;)

I say that independents ought to vote for independents in a primary, or not
vote for anybody.

The problem with independent voters in a primary is they put a guiy like
John McCain at the head of the Republican party, but McCain is more liberal
than conservative. Independents are putting a guy up for the Republicans
that Republicans would not otherwise put up, and this spoils the process.
What happens later on is that Independents will float a guy like Ross Perot
(for example) and flock to him, but they have already spoiled the
Republicans because Ross is nowhere around during a Republican primary, and
the Independents vote anyway for a candidate they will not support in the
General Election.

PS
Some states allow all voters to cross party lines, not just independents.
larry moe 'n curly - 30 Jan 2008 21:35 GMT
> So, next Tuesday, I'll walk in, declre myself a Democrat, grab a ballot,
> and vote for Johjn Edwards.

What's your new plan?
Hachiroku - 31 Jan 2008 02:41 GMT
>> So, next Tuesday, I'll walk in, declre myself a Democrat, grab a ballot,
>> and vote for Johjn Edwards.
>
> What's your new plan?

John Edwards...write in???   ;)

Man, that sucks!
badgolferman - 31 Jan 2008 04:20 GMT
> He said he couldn't believe an Independant could walk into a polling
> place, take a Republican OR a Democratic ballot, and vote in the
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Just to fu@k them up...

Virginia has open primaries.  Anyone can vote in either primary.  I
think that is completely wrong and wish it would be changed but I'll
have to live with it for now.
 
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