Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / February 2008
An atheist professor & his student
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algagaa - 04 Feb 2008 19:28 GMT An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem science has with God, The Almighty. He asks one of his new Muslim students to stand and..... Professor: You are a Muslim, aren't you, son? Student : Yes, sir. Prof: So you believe in God? Student : Absolutely, sir. Prof: Is God good? Student : Sure. Prof: Is God all-powerful? Student : Yes. Prof: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn't. How is this God good then? Hmm? (Student is silent.) Prof: You can't answer, can you? Let's start again, young fella (Fellah - A peasant in an Arabic-speaking country, esp. in Egypt ). Is God good? Student :Yes. Prof: Is Satan good? Student : No. Prof: Where does Satan come from? Student : From...God... Prof: That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world? Student : Yes. Prof: Evil is everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything. Correct? Student :Yes. Prof: So who created evil? (Student does not answer.) Prof: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don't they? Student :Yes, sir. Prof: So, who created them? (Student has no answer.) Prof: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son...Have you ever seen God? Student: No, sir. Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God? Student : No , sir. Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter? Student : No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't. Prof: Yet you still believe in Him? Student : Yes. Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science say your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son? Student : Nothing. I only have my faith. Prof: Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has. Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat? Prof: Yes. Student : And is there such a thing as cold? Prof: Yes. Student : No sir. There isn't. (The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.) Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit (-) 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it. (There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.) Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness? Prof: Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness? Student : You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light....But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you? Prof: So what is the point you are making, young man? Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed. Prof: Flawed? Can you explain how? Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully under stood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey? Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do. Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir? (The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument is going.) Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher? (The class is in uproar.) Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain? (The class breaks out into laughter.) Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it, touched or smelt it?.....No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir? (The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face unfathomable.) Prof: I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son. Student : That is it sir.. The link between man & god is FAITH. That is all that keeps things moving & alive.
Hachiroku - 04 Feb 2008 19:36 GMT > An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem > science has with God, The Almighty. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Student: Allah Akbar! God can produce as many virgins as he needs to > kill the Infidel Bastards! OH BOY! Let's see who the Rat Bastards are going to blow up this time.
edspyhill01@yahoo.com - 05 Feb 2008 02:19 GMT > An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem > science has with God, The Almighty. [quoted text clipped - 107 lines] > Student : That is it sir.. The link between man & god is FAITH. > That is all that keeps things moving & alive. This is a fake conversation made up by someone with absolutely no knowledge of science. We can observe evolution everywhere. You silly bible thumpers can't just have faith in your fairy tale and be happy. In fact, you have huge doubts about god and all your beliefs and you think we care, so you project your huge doubts on everyone else, whether believers in other religions or agnostics.
If somebody cracks open your head open with a baseball bat we can feel your brain. There ain't nothing you can do to see god. Even dieing may not do it.
Grow up. Live life and enjoy this absurd mystery we call life as a gift from something we cannot comprehend.
JoeSpareBedroom - 05 Feb 2008 04:02 GMT On Feb 4, 2:28 pm, algagaa <jipksa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem > science has with God, The Almighty. [quoted text clipped - 107 lines] > Student : That is it sir.. The link between man & god is FAITH. > That is all that keeps things moving & alive. This is a fake conversation made up by someone with absolutely no knowledge of science. We can observe evolution everywhere. You silly bible thumpers can't just have faith in your fairy tale and be happy. In fact, you have huge doubts about god and all your beliefs and you think we care, so you project your huge doubts on everyone else, whether believers in other religions or agnostics.
If somebody cracks open your head open with a baseball bat we can feel your brain. There ain't nothing you can do to see god. Even dieing may not do it.
Grow up. Live life and enjoy this absurd mystery we call life as a gift from something we cannot comprehend.
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Well, that's that. :-) May I offer you a beer?
edspyhill01@yahoo.com - 05 Feb 2008 15:07 GMT > <edspyhil...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 132 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Yes, an Indian Pale Ale, please.
Ed S.
sharx35 - 05 Feb 2008 09:47 GMT On Feb 4, 2:28 pm, algagaa <jipksa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem > science has with God, The Almighty. [quoted text clipped - 107 lines] > Student : That is it sir.. The link between man & god is FAITH. > That is all that keeps things moving & alive. This is a fake conversation made up by someone with absolutely no knowledge of science. We can observe evolution everywhere. You silly bible thumpers can't just have faith in your fairy tale and be happy. In fact, you have huge doubts about god and all your beliefs and you think we care, so you project your huge doubts on everyone else, whether believers in other religions or agnostics.
If somebody cracks open your head open with a baseball bat we can feel your brain. There ain't nothing you can do to see god. Even dieing may not do it.
Grow up. Live life and enjoy this absurd mystery we call life as a gift from something we cannot comprehend.
You, by posting this rant, show just HOW insecure that YOU are, in your OWN opinions/beliefs.
edspyhill01@yahoo.com - 05 Feb 2008 15:09 GMT > <edspyhil...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 131 lines] > > - Show quoted text - blah, blah, blah. I've been an agnostic since I was about 6 years old. I'm 60 now. I find it interesting that religious people are obsessed with proving all "non-believers" wrong, and therefore, they must right.
Retired VIP - 05 Feb 2008 14:51 GMT >> An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem >> science has with God, The Almighty. Most snipped.
>This is a fake conversation made up by someone with absolutely no >knowledge of science. We can observe evolution everywhere. Point to some evolution please. Also, why can't God use evolution as one of His tools to create? Why is it only one or the other, never both?
The more we learn about science, the more it looks like there IS a God. Do you know that DNA is the most complicated and largest molecule in nature? Do you know that a DNA molecule can be changed and it will repair its self? In short, it appears that DNA is designed to prohibit what you claim created all the different species of plants and animals.
>If somebody cracks open your head open with a baseball bat we can feel >your brain. There ain't nothing you can do to see god. Even dieing >may not do it. You are wrong in that, God is everywhere. All you need to do to see Him is to open your eyes. Also, just because you have a brain doesn't mean that it works.
>Grow up. Live life and enjoy this absurd mystery we call life as a >gift from something we cannot comprehend. "A gift from something we cannot comprehend." A really good description of God, thanks. Maybe there is hope for your soul after all.
Jack
edspyhill01@yahoo.com - 05 Feb 2008 15:22 GMT On Feb 5, 9:51 am, Retired VIP <jackj.extradots....@windstream.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Feb 2008 18:19:20 -0800 (PST), "edspyhil...@yahoo.com" > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Jack Jack,
Agnostics do not deny "god". We simply say we can't understand, comprehend "god", creation, etc. Existence is incredibly complex, elegant, beautiful, contradictory, huge, infinitesimal.
We can comprehend "god" to the same extent the right front wheel of your car can comprehend "car".
I have always felt that "god", being omnipotent, all knowing, wouldn't just poof the universe into existence. What fun is that? Does "god" have "fun"?
Religious people fear evolution theory yet they forget that whether "god" poofed the universe into existence or allowed it all to progress from the Big Bang, "god" would know the entire process from beginning to end.
I think religious people desperately try to shrink "god" down to the size of a mere mortal. Ha! Now that's "sacrilegious".
JoeSpareBedroom - 05 Feb 2008 17:12 GMT On Feb 5, 9:51 am, Retired VIP <jackj.extradots....@windstream.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Feb 2008 18:19:20 -0800 (PST), "edspyhil...@yahoo.com" > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Jack Jack,
Agnostics do not deny "god". We simply say we can't understand, comprehend "god", creation, etc. Existence is incredibly complex, elegant, beautiful, contradictory, huge, infinitesimal.
We can comprehend "god" to the same extent the right front wheel of your car can comprehend "car".
I have always felt that "god", being omnipotent, all knowing, wouldn't just poof the universe into existence. What fun is that? Does "god" have "fun"?
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I've always felt that if god was such a fantastic character, he would not allow nice little kids to get cancer. But, he does, so he must be a real a.shole.
edspyhill01@yahoo.com - 05 Feb 2008 19:44 GMT > <edspyhil...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Seriously, read "When bad things happen to good people". An excellent book.
JoeSpareBedroom - 05 Feb 2008 19:49 GMT On Feb 5, 12:12 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborea...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <edspyhil...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Seriously, read "When bad things happen to good people". An excellent book.
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I've read it. I don't care. Any god that lets little kids get cancer needs to be bitch slapped.
Mike hunt - 05 Feb 2008 20:00 GMT When did God ever say man would be peace and happiness on earth? All the good stuff is in heaven for those who have faith. If those that have faith are worng, what differace will it make FOR THEM in the end. However if those that do not have faith are wrong it will make a HUGH differance FOR THEM in the end. ;)
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> <edspyhill01@yahoo.com> wrote in message > I've read it. I don't care. Any god that lets little kids get cancer needs > to be bitch slapped. JoeSpareBedroom - 05 Feb 2008 20:09 GMT > When did God ever say man would be peace and happiness on earth? All > the good stuff is in heaven for those who have faith. If those that have > faith are worng, what differace will it make FOR THEM in the end. However > if those that do not have faith are wrong it will make a HUGH differance > FOR THEM in the end. ;) Unfortunately, all this sweetness and light will not be available to followers of religions that were around for thousands of years before Mary's roll in the hay.
witfal - 05 Feb 2008 20:13 GMT >> When did God ever say man would be peace and happiness on earth? All >> the good stuff is in heaven for those who have faith. If those that have [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > followers of religions that were around for thousands of years before Mary's > roll in the hay. Why, you're positively anti-Catholic, Joe!
Mary certainly had a roll in the hay. Jesus had half-brothers.
Good eye.
JoeSpareBedroom - 05 Feb 2008 20:43 GMT >>> When did God ever say man would be peace and happiness on earth? All >>> the good stuff is in heaven for those who have faith. If those that [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Good eye. I look at these things from a parent's point of view. If I had a daughter who came home and said "Dad, I'm pregnant, but I swear I didn't have sex with anyone", I'd hand her a box of Q-tips and a can of car wax, point to my car and say "Take your time. You need to think up a much better story than that." :-)
witfal - 05 Feb 2008 22:13 GMT >> Why, you're positively anti-Catholic, Joe! >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > car and say "Take your time. You need to think up a much better story than > that." :-) UNLESS you had a book in your hand which predicted that conception, written 750 years earlier.
That might convince you.
JoeSpareBedroom - 05 Feb 2008 22:21 GMT >>> Why, you're positively anti-Catholic, Joe! >>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > That might convince you. I'll tell ya what: I'll allow for that possibility, if you'll allow that Nostradamus' prediction might be right, with regard to who will start a nuclear war involving the Middle East. Gotta have equal time for all mythology, ya know?
witfal - 05 Feb 2008 22:40 GMT >> UNLESS you had a book in your hand which predicted that conception, >> written 750 years earlier. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > nuclear war involving the Middle East. Gotta have equal time for all > mythology, ya know? The same book which predicted the virgin birth also specifically predicted another historical figure...by name.
Again, 700+ years before it happened.
I sure old Nossy-boy wished his predictions were as clear or accurate.
JoeSpareBedroom - 05 Feb 2008 22:43 GMT >>> UNLESS you had a book in your hand which predicted that conception, >>> written 750 years earlier. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > The same book which predicted the virgin birth also specifically predicted > another historical figure...by name. Who?
> Again, 700+ years before it happened. > > I sure old Nossy-boy wished his predictions were as clear or accurate. A "great bear from the north", or something like that. I wonder why the Russians would start a ruckus like that in the Middle East, unless Iran gets really nutty.
witfal - 05 Feb 2008 22:46 GMT >>>> UNLESS you had a book in your hand which predicted that conception, >>>> written 750 years earlier. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Who? First an error on my part. The prediction was over 100, not seven hundred years before the birth of Cyrus, king of Persia.
Check Isaiah 44.
JoeSpareBedroom - 05 Feb 2008 22:58 GMT >>>>> UNLESS you had a book in your hand which predicted that conception, >>>>> written 750 years earlier. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Check Isaiah 44. Amazing. Absolutely amazing.
witfal - 05 Feb 2008 23:28 GMT >>> Who? >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Amazing. Absolutely amazing. No sarcasm?
JoeSpareBedroom - 05 Feb 2008 23:44 GMT >>>> Who? >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > No sarcasm? None. Honest.
edspyhill01@yahoo.com - 06 Feb 2008 01:11 GMT > >>>> UNLESS you had a book in your hand which predicted that conception, > >>>> written 750 years earlier. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Well, first there was the old testiment. Then a bunch of people wrote "The greatest story ever told" by working backwards from an imaginary future to the documented past and written predictions.
With all the record keeping of the Romans and the Jews there is no mention of a person named Jesus or any of the events in the new testiment. No even the Dead Sea Scrolls have any mention of Jesus. Or the writings of the Essenes or the Gnostics. Nothing in the Apocrapha.
Whatever floats your boat...
witfal - 06 Feb 2008 06:25 GMT >> First an error on my part. The prediction was over 100, not seven >> hundred years before the birth of Cyrus, king of Persia. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Whatever floats your boat... Your scholarship is overwhelming.
edspyhill01@yahoo.com - 06 Feb 2008 14:33 GMT > On 2008-02-05 17:11:53 -0800, "edspyhil...@yahoo.com" > <edspyhil...@yahoo.com> said: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I take that as agreement.
witfal - 06 Feb 2008 15:12 GMT >> On 2008-02-05 17:11:53 -0800, "edspyhil...@yahoo.com" >> <edspyhil...@yahoo.com> said: [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > I take that as agreement. I'm sure you do. Here's a hint: The writings of the Gnostics and the Apocrypha were rejected for many valid reasons. And try reading Josephus.
edspyhill01@yahoo.com - 06 Feb 2008 16:55 GMT > On 2008-02-06 06:33:02 -0800, "edspyhil...@yahoo.com" > <edspyhil...@yahoo.com> said: [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Rejected by... let me guess, Christians!!!!
witfal - 06 Feb 2008 16:57 GMT >> I'm sure you do. Here's a hint: The writings of the Gnostics and the > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Rejected by... let me guess, Christians!!!! Nope. Keep trying.
edspyhill01@yahoo.com - 06 Feb 2008 17:16 GMT > On 2008-02-06 08:55:22 -0800, "edspyhil...@yahoo.com" > <edspyhil...@yahoo.com> said: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Nope. Keep trying. It's been awhile since I've read all the pro & con writings on this topic. The last things I found interesting were the gospel of Mary Magdelene and the gospel of Thomas. Both have missing pages but it the MM gospel was written about 200 - 300 CE. This is what botheres me, the writings were put down hundreds of years later. It doesn't make writings fake but it allows for enhancement.
My personal quest for a long time was to reconcile a very close similarity between the works attributed to Christ and the writings on Buddhists that predates Christ by about 400 years.
Ed S.
witfal - 07 Feb 2008 03:58 GMT >>> Rejected by... let me guess, Christians!!!! >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > me, the writings were put down hundreds of years later. It doesn't > make writings fake but it allows for enhancement. Agreed. That's why certain books made the canon, while other were rejected. Couple that with Jesus never having quoted from Apocryphal or Maccabean books, and you have another good reason.
> My personal quest for a long time was to reconcile a very close > similarity between the works attributed to Christ and the writings on > Buddhists that predates Christ by about 400 years. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. I've always been fond of saying that Jesus proved everything He said, and validated His deity, by the Resurrection. Anyone who cares to disagree with Him should at least be able to do likewise.
doc@oz.net - 07 Feb 2008 12:58 GMT >>>> Rejected by... let me guess, Christians!!!! >>> >>> Nope. Keep trying. (snip)
>Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. I've always been fond of >saying that Jesus proved everything He said, and validated His deity, >by the Resurrection. Anyone who cares to disagree with Him should at >least be able to do likewise. You realize, of course, Jesus was not a Christian! According the scripture He wasn't even a very good Jew.
JoeSpareBedroom - 07 Feb 2008 14:06 GMT >>>>> Rejected by... let me guess, Christians!!!! >>>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > You realize, of course, Jesus was not a Christian! > According the scripture He wasn't even a very good Jew. Wrong. He thought his mother was a virgin, and his mother thought he was a god. Definitely Jewish.
witfal - 07 Feb 2008 14:28 GMT > Wrong. He thought his mother was a virgin, and his mother thought he was a > god. Definitely Jewish. Not "a god", THE God.
And He KNEW she wasn't a virgin after his first brother was born.
JoeSpareBedroom - 07 Feb 2008 14:37 GMT >> Wrong. He thought his mother was a virgin, and his mother thought he was >> a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > And He KNEW she wasn't a virgin after his first brother was born. Don't ruin the joke. :)
witfal - 07 Feb 2008 14:40 GMT >>> Wrong. He thought his mother was a virgin, and his mother thought he was >>> a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Don't ruin the joke. :) Okay. Another:
Two Jewish women were talking about their respective sons. One asked, "So how's your boy?" The other replied, "He's in therapy. The psychiatrist says he's suffering from an Oedipus complex."
The first replied,"Oedipus-schmedipus. As long as he loves his mother."
JoeSpareBedroom - 07 Feb 2008 15:08 GMT >>>> Wrong. He thought his mother was a virgin, and his mother thought he >>>> was [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > The first replied,"Oedipus-schmedipus. As long as he loves his mother." An old Jewish couple goes to their lawyer. He says "So, are we updating the will?" "No. We want a divorce", says the wife. The lawyer looks shocked. "Sorry to hear that. How long have you been unhappy together?" The husband says "Oh...about 60 years". The lawyer asks "Why'd you wait so long???" The wife says "We wanted to wait till the children were dead!"
witfal - 07 Feb 2008 15:13 GMT > An old Jewish couple goes to their lawyer. He says "So, are we updating the > will?" "No. We want a divorce", says the wife. The lawyer looks > shocked. "Sorry to hear that. How long have you been unhappy together?" The > husband says "Oh...about 60 years". The lawyer asks "Why'd you wait so > long???" The wife says "We wanted to wait till the children were dead!" I just read this out loud to my wife. She laughed, then said, "That's sick."
I liked it.
JoeSpareBedroom - 07 Feb 2008 15:18 GMT >> An old Jewish couple goes to their lawyer. He says "So, are we updating >> the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I liked it. Two Muslim ladies are talking over tea. #1 pulls out some pictures of her kids:
"This is Yusuf. He would've been 24, but he's a martyr".
#2 says "What a good looking boy!"
#1 shows another picture and says "This is Zakir. He would've been 20, but like his brother, a martyr".
#2 says "I remember him. He wanted to be a doctor".
#1 shows one more picture and says "This is Jamal. He would've been 16, but....a martyr".
#2 sighs deeply and says "Kids! They blow up so fast these days!"
witfal - 07 Feb 2008 15:26 GMT > Two Muslim ladies are talking over tea. > #1 pulls out some pictures of her kids: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > #2 sighs deeply and says "Kids! They blow up so fast these days!" VERY funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y-waHLz-TU
witfal - 07 Feb 2008 14:25 GMT > You realize, of course, Jesus was not a Christian! Gosh, ya' think?
> According the scripture He wasn't even a very good Jew. According to whose Scripture? Certainly not the OT or NT. All He effectively did was to reveal to the Sanhedrin what miserable failures THEY were at being, as you put it, a good Jew.
Retired VIP - 06 Feb 2008 13:20 GMT >>>> Why, you're positively anti-Catholic, Joe! >>>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >nuclear war involving the Middle East. Gotta have equal time for all >mythology, ya know? No one, not even Nostradamus can predict the future. Do you know why? If it were possible to predict the future then that would mean that the future was already determined. We would have no free will, it would be impossible to sin and this discussion of God would have no meaning.
Jack
mack - 05 Feb 2008 21:18 GMT > When did God ever say man would be peace and happiness on earth? All > the good stuff is in heaven for those who have faith. If those that have > faith are worng, what differace will it make FOR THEM in the end. However > if those that do not have faith are wrong it will make a HUGH differance > FOR THEM in the end. ;) Maybe (as the story goes) that's why W.C. Fields was once found relaxing at the studio between takes engrossed in reading the Bible. A friend of his came by and said "Bill! YOU, reading a Bible?" Fields looked up and replied "Yeah, just looking for loopholes........"
sharx35 - 05 Feb 2008 09:46 GMT > An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem > science has with God, The Almighty. [quoted text clipped - 107 lines] > Student : That is it sir.. The link between man & god is FAITH. > That is all that keeps things moving & alive. Wow!
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