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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / February 2008Auto shops advice
Hello, I've had bad experiences in most of the franchise auto shops I tried. Besides the usual "courtesy check" (I understand they have to make a living and some of their suggestions can actually be very valid), they aren't too trustworthy: in Firestone they tried to charge me extra for my 2003 Corolla CE's invisible ABS brakes and $95 for a cabin air filter change (had bought one for $19 and took me 3 minutes to change it). In Tuffy they put the air filter backwards so the cover wouldn't fit. One can't help but think what other scams they were able to slip by. Oil changes are done in a hurry, mixing old & new, not puting oil in the new filter's gasket and overtighten both the filter and the plug. I guess the safest way is to go to a local unfranchised mechanic, keep bringing him business and earn his trust. Do you agree? Any suggestions? > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Do you agree? Any suggestions? This should eliminate any residual tendency you may have to use a franchise place: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiCAJ8ULnaI People who work at those places have no personal stake in the business, so they have no reason to do decent work. Ask everyone you know if they can give you the name of an independent shop they've been happy with. You might also check here to see if anyone in your area has reported good results with a shop: http://www.cartalk.com/content/mechx/ >> Hello, >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > People who work at those places have no personal stake in the business, so > they have no reason to do decent work. I seldom agree with Joe on anything, but on this point I agree with him completely. Mom & Pop's Service, down the street and around the corner, is likely to do the best work on your car because they thrive on the referral business, and repeat business too. If you go to Acme Repairs, and never go back, they don't give a sh.t because some other idiot will walk in the door and cast a shadow on the cash register. But, Mom & Pop, want you to come back and keep them busy, or send your friends. They really want you to sent your friends, because when you come back time and time again, they feel like they must have missed something that would have saved you a trip if they had caught it. Joe's Auto Service (Mom & Pop) will beat out Acme Repairs any day of the week, but they are not open on Sunday. > Ask everyone you know if they can give you the name of an independent shop > they've been happy with. You might also check here to see if anyone in > your area has reported good results with a shop: > http://www.cartalk.com/content/mechx/ >>> Hello, >>> [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Auto Service (Mom & Pop) will beat out Acme Repairs any day of the week, > but they are not open on Sunday. It depends. Joe may be a complete idiot when it comes to cars or may not have the best equipment to repair vehicles. On the other hand, Acme Auto Service or the dealer may have techs who specialize in specific systems, like air condition, brakes, exhaust, may send its techs for continuing education and certification courses, and have access to the latest technical bulletins, and have a great shop manager. To cast all mom and pop shops as good or all chain shops as bad in accurate, IMHO. Jeff >>>> Hello, >>>> [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > have access to the latest technical bulletins, and have a great shop > manager. Well, I would go to Mom & Pop's Air Conditioning, if I needed that service. Or Mom & Pops Brakes, or Mufflers, or Transmissions, or whatever. Mom & Pop do not have the skill set for all of these things, but they have the skill to compete individually in any of them. Sorry, I am not convinced that the national chains can do better work than the right Mom & Pop shop for the given discipline. I take my BMWF to a BMW guy for motor and transmission work (manual trans, and the clutch was the issue), but I take the same car to the Mom & Pop's Air for AC service. The point is, I went to a national chain store, and they told me that the car I bought weeks earlier (a lease return) was not fit for the highways and byways of America. I've been driving the car for going on 13 years, without any of the desparately needed repairs they claimed were needed. > To cast all mom and pop shops as good or all chain shops as bad in > accurate, IMHO. That's true, I suppose. Mom & Pop can rip you off as easily as the national chains. I've never been ripped off by a Mom & Pop, maybe this colors my perspective on the subject. > That's true, I suppose. Mom & Pop can rip you off as easily as the national > chains. I've never been ripped off by a Mom & Pop, maybe this colors my > perspective on the subject.- Hide quoted text - I think we all agree a Mom & Pop auto shop is more likely to provide an honest service. The problem is that sometimes one has no choice. I had to take my Corolla for an alignment and I don't think my local shop has the proper equipment. What bothers me is the leap of faith we take as consumers by believing mechanics did their job correctly. A local mechanic is more likely to take pride on his job and his reputation. I should listen to my own advice. Sometimes chain shops open at convenient times next to convenient places are too easy to pick... >>>> Hello, >>>> [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > Jeff Independents sometimes attend continuing certification courses, so there are no hard & fast rules. Mine has occasionally told me I'd be better off getting certain kinds of work done by the dealer. In one instance, it involved exhaust work. The mechanic said the Toyota dealer offered a better parts warranty than his supplier. There was another instance involving my Taurus, but I don't recall the reason. It's probably not easy to find mechanics this good. When these guys retire, I'll probably stop driving a buy a horse. I will have to disagree with Joe on this on. I think any shop is as good or as bad as the manager makes it. I've seen several people screwed over by several "mom and pops" and I have seen several screwed by The National chains. Everyone wants to earn a living, some just don't have ethics. I worked at Firestone for 4.5 years and did my best. One manager was great and the customers did come back, others, well I still hate. I now work at a dealership and we send some used cars to a Mom and Pop place that does great work; An Independent shop can have a level of training that is much higher than dealerships. They get this knowlage/training from not having all the car specific tools and knowlage, and having to think outside the box to diagnose and fix cars. As my friend Jim once said, "I may not be able to fix 100% of (insert car brand) but I can fix 95% of all cars." Some dealerships techs are amazed that people can actually work and understand multiple brands of cars. Anyway to me its not the store, but the people, but the consumer should be educated.  SignatureSteve ASE Master Tech L1 Diag Currently residing at a Subaru Shop 4.5 years doing tires and alighnments I'm not perfect, and >> Hello, >> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > your area has reported good results with a shop: > http://www.cartalk.com/content/mechx/ > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Do you agree? Any suggestions? However, if you don't know of any shops that have a good local reputation, ask your friends for a recommendation. I wouldn't eliminate chain shops or dealers, though, if they have a good reputation. Some are pretty good. But I wouldn't go to any unless you have good recommendations. Also, check with your local better business bureau before bringing your car to the shop. Jeff >> Hello, >> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Jeff The dealer here charges not much more than the independent shop I use for 99% of the work, and both places seem equivalent in quality. But for me, the biggest problem with the dealer is that I can only talk to a service writer, which is really annoying. At the indy place, I've known the mechanic forever, and he actually likes having some customers hanging around so he can bitch to somebody about stuff, like his opinion that nobody in the auto industry has taken the time to design a better parking brake mechanism that freezes up. The dealer's cheaper for oil changes, but the indy mechanic checks a bunch of other stuff while he's working on my Tacoma. He pays special attention to the aforementioned parking brake assembly because he knows I need it when stopped on steep boat launches. I don't think the dealer's mechanic would even turn his head in that direction while changing the oil. >>> Hello, >>> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > industry has taken the time to design a better parking brake mechanism that > freezes up. My car has one that freezes up in the winter. > The dealer's cheaper for oil changes, but the indy mechanic checks a bunch > of other stuff while he's working on my Tacoma. He pays special attention to > the aforementioned parking brake assembly because he knows I need it when > stopped on steep boat launches. I don't think the dealer's mechanic would > even turn his head in that direction while changing the oil. Yet there are dealers that do this. But it is hard when the service advisor doesn't even write down the correct stuff. jeff I bought a '93 Mazda MPV back in '95. It was a lease return, and had 30,000 miles. I took it to Big O Tires for an oil change (or some similar kind of complicated service), and the guy came out with his clip board that said basically everything behind the hood ornament needed repair or replacement. He said I needed over $5,000 in repairs on a car that literally went from the dealership, around town a couple of times, and to his shop for fresh oil. And, the car only had 30k miles on the clock. I elected to forgo the oil change -- damn crooks anyhow! -- and do it myself. Now, the van has <120k miles, and still needs all of the sh.t on the a.shole's list. The hood ornament has long since fallen off, but the stuff behind where it once was is the same ... > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Do you agree? Any suggestions? For typical maintenance, most people here can do it themselves without problems and it would be the best. Otherwise word-of-mouth recommendation from satisfied friends to independent shops would be next. You can always take it back to the dealer. For example, their ~$25 oil service is competitive with others if you care to use OEM filters (I don't, I use Bosch and Purolator PureOne). But there is no guarantee you'll get quality work just because it's a dealer -- it would also depend on the mechanic you happen to get. Service writers steer orders toward cheap mechanics first and take a cut of the profit with the dealership. > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Do you agree? Any suggestions? > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Do you agree? Any suggestions? Your best bet when choosing a shop is to choose one that is AAA approved and has ASE certified technicians working there, preferably ASE Master Technicians. AAA does a lot of the leg work for you, like checking to see that they have the basic tools and equipment to service most cars, and AAA will also arbitrate complaints for you. The National Institute for Automotive Service Excellence (shortened to ASE) has requirements for tenure in the shop, and to earn the ASE certification, the technician has to pass a series tests, which will tend to weed out the incompetent techs. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) |
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