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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / February 20082002 Corolla CE -- radiator vibration
Hi all, I have a 2002 Corolla w/ 147,000 miles. I've recently encountered a vibration that wasn't too bad and thought it was something in the vehicle. Although today, it seems it's a lot worse which might make sense as I got back from a 3 hour drive last night.. Anyway, I know it's hard to diagnose sound without hearing it so I won't ask you to do that. What I can tell you is it appears that the radiator is loose somewhere and that is allowing it to vibrate -- very annoying. I had my girlfriend hold the radiator when this sound started and it appeared the vibration/sound went away which leads me to believe that the radiator support brackets/dampeners or whatever are loose/broken. Does this sound plausible? What actually holds the radiator in place? It shouldn't really move back and forth, should it? It's not loose loose.. but it does freely wiggle around which I don't think is normal. I'm taking it to a shop tonight to have them verify what I found and hopefully fix it. I'm more curious what the radiator assembly/support is made out of -- as you know here in California, pot holes and crummy streets are the norm so wondering if hitting a pothole or a serious bump would be enough to possibly crack a support, especially if it's just made out of plastic or something. Thanks for insight, Steve > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Steve Radiators are usually just setting in the lower radiator support in two rubber radiator mounts and held at the top by two bolts (one on each side of the radiator) threaded into the upper radiator support. The supports are generally made out of metal and are part of the body structure. You did not mention where your girlfriend was holding the radiator to make the noise stop but you may want to check the two top bolts I mentioned earlier to see if they are tight. > > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > make the noise stop but you may want to check the two top bolts I > mentioned earlier to see if they are tight. Now that you mention it, I will check again. She was holding the top left if you're facing the car. It seems both sides are loose though. I bet that's likely it -- I will double check and find out! > > > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > I bet that's likely it -- I will double check and find out! OK, so I checked this. The bolts are on very tight which is good. The bolts hold on this metal piece which extends out a few inches and has a rubber dealy which rests on top of the radiator. It seems this rubber piece is in decent condition but perhaps it should be a bit thicker? Not sure. Can't tighten anything more than it is yet the radiator still wiggles around. Perhaps that's not the issue but it seemed to stop the noises I heard when someone held the radiator steady so who knows... I'll have it checked out. > > > > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > > I'll have it checked out. So I went to the dealer and of course, like clock work, couldn't reproduce the issue. Of course, the dealer was hesitant to want to GET inside my car -- and prior to him getting inside he shook the radiator quite a bit just for the hell of it. I guess he was testing the play of the upper radiator bracket assembly. Anyway, the sound seems gone now that he did that. Makes me wonder if a rock was lodged somewhere or perhaps hitting a pothole just right made the radiator slightly out of some bracket. Who knows? I do still believe there is a little too much play with the upper bracket assembly mounts. They seem somewhat OK but you can clearly see the right side is a little more flush than the left. The bracket assembly is like $27 so thinking of just replacing for the hell of it and hopefully that totally solves whatever it is. > > On Feb 19, 3:01 pm, "Ph@Boy" <u...@example.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > > I'll have it checked out. So I went to the dealer and of course, like clock work, couldn't reproduce the issue. Of course, the dealer was hesitant to want to GET inside my car -- and prior to him getting inside he shook the radiator quite a bit just for the hell of it. I guess he was testing the play of the upper radiator bracket assembly. Anyway, the sound seems gone now that he did that. Makes me wonder if a rock was lodged somewhere or perhaps hitting a pothole just right made the radiator slightly out of some bracket. Who knows? I do still believe there is a little too much play with the upper bracket assembly mounts. They seem somewhat OK but you can clearly see the right side is a little more flush than the left. The bracket assembly is like $27 so thinking of just replacing for the hell of it and hopefully that totally solves whatever it is. **************** I doubt if replacing the radiator bracket will make the noise go away. The radiator is mounted with rubber isolators so that the radiator is not damaged. With the engine off, check to make sure that the electric fan shroud is not loose. You may just be hearing the electric fans kicking in. With the engine off, check the condition of the fan blades to make sure none are warped.  SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > > > On Feb 19, 3:01 pm, "Ph@Boy" <u...@example.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 96 lines] > Ray O > (correct punctuation to reply) It's not the electric fans as this sound happens when they're OFF too. Honestly, I have tried to listen for it and for the life of me cannot pinpoint where it's coming from. It makes the sound whether I drive or not. It's not ALWAYS there; it's intermittent. It may make the sound driving but with the road noise I cannot hear it. It also makes the sound in any gear, even park. What I do notice is when in PARK, the idle changes and it's very low... which obviously would reduce vibrations and that seems to be when the noise is intermittent to gone. Reverse and Drive seem to have the noise but almost positive it is NOT the transmission making the noise -- it's more caused by being in gear is causing the wheels to move in some direction. I drove to the store and put the pedal to the floor and the car had great response and went -- so whatever the noise is, it's not causing power loss that I can see. My mileage seems to be the same. I don't think it's a timing chain noise... almost sure of that. I had the tensioner pulley replaced a little over a year ago and it's not a tensioner pulley sound. I'm almost inclined to think it's maybe some rattling/loose piping underneath the car that is silent outside of the car, but inside the car would make some really funky sounds. That's all I can think of. I've tried EVERYTHING to find this noise/ vibration and for the life of me cannot seem to pinpoint it. I don't think it's a critical thing but I need to find it before I go nuts. I was thinking of taking a stethoscope to the engine compartment as I can faintly hear it from there but it could just as easily be piping underneath maybe. It's VERY hard to hear OUTSIDE of the car and very easy to hear INSIDE the car. I have removed everything from inside the car to make sure it's not something in the glove compartment, trunk, or console... that didn't help. Very very bizarre... >> > > > > I had my girlfriend hold the radiator when this sound started >> > > > > and [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >> > > > > norm so wondering if hitting a pothole or a serious bump >> > > > > would be enough to possibly crack a support, especially if >> > > > > it's just made o > ut [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> > > Now that you mention it, I will check again. She was holding the >> > > top left if you're facing the car. It seems both sides are loose >> > > though. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> > The bolts hold on this metal piece which extends out a few inches >> > and has a rubber dealy which rests on top of the radiator. It seems >> > this rubber piece is in decent condition but perhaps it should be a >> > bit thicker? Not sure. Can't tighten anything more than it is yet >> > the radiator still wiggles around. Perhaps that's not the issue but >> > it seemed to stop the noises I heard when someone held the radiator >> > steady so who knows... >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> Of course, the dealer was hesitant to want to GET inside my car -- >> and prior to him getting inside he shook the radiator quite a bit >> just for the hell of it. I guess he was testing the play of the >> upper radiator bracket assembly. >> >> Anyway, the sound seems gone now that he did that. Makes me wonder >> if a rock was lodged somewhere or perhaps hitting a pothole just >> right made the radiator slightly out of some bracket. Who knows? >> I do still believe there is a little too much play with the upper >> bracket assembly mounts. They seem somewhat OK but you can clearly [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> damaged. With the engine off, check to make sure that the electric >> fan shroud is not loose. You may just be hearing the electric fans >> kicking > in. [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > Very very bizarre... Heat shield(S) over the catalytic converter or exhaust pipe \manifold ?? Make sure they aren't getting loose due to rusted out bolts. Just a thought. dc > >> > > > > I had my girlfriend hold the radiator when this sound > started [quoted text clipped - 220 lines] > out bolts. Just a thought. > dc I'm thinking it's piping underneath too. I was going to jack the car up this afternoon and see if I can wiggle anything underneath. Question... When your oil is changed, do they have to remove that heat shield at all? I wish I remember when this sound started -- when it first started a few weeks ago I just attributed it to something in the car but now I have ruled that out. I did get my oil changed a couple weeks ago so wondering if they had to remove that heat shield and if they do -- wondering if they got it back on there securely? Thanks for the suggestion! > > >> > > > > I had my girlfriend hold the radiator when this sound > > started [quoted text clipped - 234 lines] > > Thanks for the suggestion! I just jacked up the car. I can't find anything loose underneath. Muffler / Cat / piping all seems secure. Checked the heat shield, it looks on their normal and not loose that I can tell. Going to try starting the car and seeing if I can hear anything while underneath it. <snipped> > > Heat shield(S) over the catalytic converter or exhaust pipe > > \manifold ?? Make sure they aren't getting loose due to rusted [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Thanks for the suggestion! I just jacked up the car. I can't find anything loose underneath. Muffler / Cat / piping all seems secure. Checked the heat shield, it looks on their normal and not loose that I can tell. Going to try starting the car and seeing if I can hear anything while underneath it. ************ Check the flex pipe or flex joint on the exhaust. They sometimes make noise. Also check to make sure that no wire looms or connectors are resting against the engine without some kind of rubber isolator. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) On Feb 21, 10:20 pm, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote: > <snipped> > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > Ray O > (correct punctuation to reply) So thanks for the advice everyone. The sound is now gone however I never did find a cause. Here is what I did though: Emptied out trunk, glove compartment, console, etc.. sound was still there. Tightened top radiator mounts -- sound still there. Attempted to move engine around -- it was secure, wasn't moving at all. Checked all dipsticks / fluid levels -- everything kosher. Checked radiator / fans -- they work fine / not warped -- checked out OK. Finally jacked up the car and checked piping/muffler/etc.. -- checks out OK. I banged around on the heat shield underneath the car as well -- seemed tight, nothing seemed loose... all boots looked OK and felt tight. Anyway, after all of this (specifically after the banging on the heat shield / trying to shake piping underneath car) the sound is now gone. Not sure what it was or where it was coming from... what I can tell you is we have those curb stops like most parking lots and if you pull to cloose, it'll scrape the heat shield underneath the car. Almost sure that was causing some issues likely. Anyway, sound is gone and has been for 3 days... On Feb 21, 10:20 pm, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote: > "mrsteveo" <mrste...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Ray O > (correct punctuation to reply) So thanks for the advice everyone. The sound is now gone however I never did find a cause. Here is what I did though: Emptied out trunk, glove compartment, console, etc.. sound was still there. Tightened top radiator mounts -- sound still there. Attempted to move engine around -- it was secure, wasn't moving at all. Checked all dipsticks / fluid levels -- everything kosher. Checked radiator / fans -- they work fine / not warped -- checked out OK. Finally jacked up the car and checked piping/muffler/etc.. -- checks out OK. I banged around on the heat shield underneath the car as well -- seemed tight, nothing seemed loose... all boots looked OK and felt tight. Anyway, after all of this (specifically after the banging on the heat shield / trying to shake piping underneath car) the sound is now gone. Not sure what it was or where it was coming from... what I can tell you is we have those curb stops like most parking lots and if you pull to cloose, it'll scrape the heat shield underneath the car. Almost sure that was causing some issues likely. Anyway, sound is gone and has been for 3 days... ********** Thanks for the update. Perhaps one of the heat shields was resonating, and banging on it fixed it. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >Finally jacked up the car and checked piping/muffler/etc.. -- checks >out OK. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Anyway, sound is gone and has been for 3 days... That was probably it - if you pulled and pushed on the heat shield you can bend the shield to where it puts compression on (or pulls away from) a mounting tab with a broken spot-weld. The exhaust system components expand and contract quite a bit with heat cycles, that's why you hear those popping and pinging noises from down there for several minutes after shutting off the car. If you can ID the heat shield mounting tab that is broken, you can always go to a muffler or welding shop - 15 seconds with a torch and that broken spot-weld is replaced by a quick puddle-weld with a MIG or Stick welder and it should be vanquished for a few more years. Or till another weld pops loose. A drilled hole and stainless sheet-metal screw or pop rivet would work too. --<< Bruce >>-- > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > appeared the vibration/sound went away which leads me to believe that > the radiator support brackets/dampeners or whatever are loose/broken. Hah! In reality, she had her nether parts pushed against the rad, the better to achieve an orgasm....FINALLY. > Does this sound plausible? > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Steve |
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