Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
HomeAnnouncements
Discussion Groups
By Brand
BMWChevroletDodgeFordGMHondaLexusMercedes-BenzNissanPeugeotToyotaVolkswagenOther Brands
By Topic
4x4 CarsRVsDrivingMaintenance & RepairCar AudioCollectible Cars
Country Specific
Australian ForumsUK Forums
ArticlesAuto InsuranceBuyingCars & TechnologyMaintenanceMiscellaneousSafety
DMV Resources
Related Topics
MotorcyclesBoatsMore Topics ...

Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / March 2008

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Repair Manuals

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Windsurfer - 13 Mar 2008 12:01 GMT
How good are the Toyota Corp. Repair Manuals?  They offer two for my
vehicle.  The engine one seems a bit pricey at $60.00.   I bought the
Hanes manual and don't like it.  It was useful, though.  I've always
preferred the Chilton publications for my GM vehicles so I just
ordered a used one for my 4-runner over Amazon.
Hachiroku ハチロク - 13 Mar 2008 15:21 GMT
> How good are the Toyota Corp. Repair Manuals?  They offer two for my
> vehicle.  The engine one seems a bit pricey at $60.00.   I bought the
> Hanes manual and don't like it.  It was useful, though.  I've always
> preferred the Chilton publications for my GM vehicles so I just ordered a
> used one for my 4-runner over Amazon.

They assume you have a base level knowledge of the car and only delve into
the more technical aspects of repair, and are certainly car-specific.
However, if you combine it with something like a Clymer's or Hanes manual
then you have a pretty comprehensive repair guide.

One manual that's often overlooked is Bentley. They cover EVERYTHING and
are car specific, and usually less than the factory manual.
larry moe 'n curly - 13 Mar 2008 15:27 GMT
> How good are the Toyota Corp. Repair Manuals?  They offer two for my
> vehicle.  The engine one seems a bit pricey at $60.00.   I bought the
> Hanes manual and don't like it.  It was useful, though.  I've always
> preferred the Chilton publications for my GM vehicles so I just
> ordered a used one for my 4-runner over Amazon.

Some factory manuals can be downloaded free from www.pdftown.com.

Toyota manuals are really good and go into a lot of detail, usually
with a clear illustration for each step of each procedure.

A couple of years ago, I paid $140 for the Nissan factory manual and
consider it well worth the price, even though I already had a free
copy of the Haynes manual, because Nissan provided a lot more
information about the computer systems (fuel, emissions, antilock
brakes, and transmission), the diagnostic procedures were more
detailed (Haynes and Chilton's often give only generic info), plus the
wiring diagrams are completely accurate and not merely "typical",
i.e., typically useless.
Bruce L. Bergman - 13 Mar 2008 16:58 GMT
>How good are the Toyota Corp. Repair Manuals?  They offer two for my
>vehicle.  The engine one seems a bit pricey at $60.00.   I bought the
>Hanes manual and don't like it.  It was useful, though.  I've always
>preferred the Chilton publications for my GM vehicles so I just
>ordered a used one for my 4-runner over Amazon.

 Haynes and Chilton and the like are useful for the total novice
because they spell out the simple things that the novice doesn't know
- like how to hand-pack a wheel bearing...

 But at times they are way wrong, because they take apart one example
car out of a series of several similar model years of the same design,
and expect that they are all designed the same.  Often there are major
running production changes between the first and last years of a model
- or they wrote the book using a sedan and the car maker used a
totally different part in the wagon, the book writers didn't know, and
the pictures they show look nothing like the part you have in your
hand...  

 The factory manuals are really detailed, and they show all those
production changes.  But they do tend to gloss over the simple stuff
that a first year mechanic would know, like "pack the wheel bearings".

If you need an electrical wiring diagram or detailed torque and
adjustment instructions, don't even bother with the ones in the
aftermarket books.  They're almost guessing - if they make them too
good, they'd be accused of copyright infringement because they would
have to crib the data and drawings from the factory manuals...

 The people who write the factory books have full access to the
blueprints used to build the car, and the engineers who drew those
blueprints, and are as accurate as possible.

  --<< Bruce >>--
Elmo P. Shagnasty - 13 Mar 2008 17:32 GMT
>   Haynes and Chilton and the like are useful for the total novice
> because they spell out the simple things that the novice doesn't know
> - like how to hand-pack a wheel bearing...
>
>   But at times they are way wrong,

Chilton is the source for Honda factory manuals.
Bruce L. Bergman - 14 Mar 2008 02:30 GMT
>>   Haynes and Chilton and the like are useful for the total novice
>> because they spell out the simple things that the novice doesn't know
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Chilton is the source for Honda factory manuals.

 Okay, but when Honda has an outside technical writer do the book
they still retain copyright over the data and pictures provided.

 Does Honda allow Chilton to use the proprietary data and information
they supplied for their Factory Repair Manual in Chilton's 'retail
paperback' editions?  I'll bet not - they have to write those other
manuals for Honda in a "clean room" environment, and have their usual
crew take apart a car and write the retail manual in their usual way,
so their manuals won't break Honda's copyrights.

 This is the same way Columbia Data Products had to reverse engineer
the IBM PC BIOS - they assembled two teams of workers that had
absolutely no industry ties to IBM or Mickeysoft so they couldn't be
accused of using trade secrets acquired when they worked for IBM in
the past.  They had one team break down the tasks that the BIOS
performed in excruciating detail, including all the 'bugs' and
apparently aberrant behavior when you issued a certain command.  And
they wrote it all down...

 Then a second team came in and wrote a BIOS from scratch that did
exactly what the programmers called for when a command was issued.
Including pauses and apparent errors and actual errors.

 --<< Bruce >>--
Jeff Strickland - 13 Mar 2008 17:38 GMT
Factory Repair Manuals are far superior, and well worth the extra cost, to
Haynes and Chilton manuals.

> How good are the Toyota Corp. Repair Manuals?  They offer two for my
> vehicle.  The engine one seems a bit pricey at $60.00.   I bought the
> Hanes manual and don't like it.  It was useful, though.  I've always
> preferred the Chilton publications for my GM vehicles so I just
> ordered a used one for my 4-runner over Amazon.
Mike hunt - 14 Mar 2008 02:07 GMT
Only as good as the capabilities of guy interpreting the contents, I would
suspect  ;)

> How good are the Toyota Corp. Repair Manuals?  They offer two for my
> vehicle.  The engine one seems a bit pricey at $60.00.   I bought the
> Hanes manual and don't like it.  It was useful, though.  I've always
> preferred the Chilton publications for my GM vehicles so I just
> ordered a used one for my 4-runner over Amazon.
Ray O - 14 Mar 2008 03:59 GMT
> How good are the Toyota Corp. Repair Manuals?  They offer two for my
> vehicle.  The engine one seems a bit pricey at $60.00.   I bought the
> Hanes manual and don't like it.  It was useful, though.  I've always
> preferred the Chilton publications for my GM vehicles so I just
> ordered a used one for my 4-runner over Amazon.

Bruce's explanation of the difference between factory and Chilton, Haynes,
Mitchell, Motor, etc. manuals is right on.  If you have a good understanding
of automotive principles and know the fundamentals of electrical circuits
and diagnosis, then the factory manuals are a better choice, otherwise, the
aftermarket publications are good enough.

If you think that you will only need occasional access to the additional
detail and information in the factory repair manual, you can access them for
$10/day at techinfo.toyota.com.  At this site, you can also download
technical service bulletins.  Depending on the car's level of equipment and
engine choices, a complete set of manuals can be pricey, but you will
probably break even after one or two DIY fixes.
Signature


Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

oneup.again@gmail.com - 14 Mar 2008 11:15 GMT
> How good are the Toyota Corp. Repair Manuals?  They offer two for my
> vehicle.  The engine one seems a bit pricey at $60.00.   I bought the
> Hanes manual and don't like it.  It was useful, though.  I've always
> preferred the Chilton publications for my GM vehicles so I just
> ordered a used one for my 4-runner over Amazon.

Hiya, Brucie.  Fixed that broken bolt yet?

Here's the story on manuals.  Almost without exception, factory
manuals are the best (and most expensive).  Who knows more about the
cars than the engineers who designed them?  And the car companies have
the deepest pockets to pay for the best writers.  Moreover, auto
manufacturers must support the dealers' service facilities,
particularly for warranty repair  It's in their own best interest
(self interest) to provide the most complete info to their dealer
mechanics in order keep warranty costs down and try to minimize
customer dissatisfaction.

On the downside, very often factory service manuals specify a
procedure using a special tool that the independent shop or shade tree
mechanic won't have and cannot get.  And, yes, they're expensive.
(You get what you pay for.)  Automakers would prefer that you take
your car to their dealer for repair rather than do it yourself, so
they discourage home repairs by making the technical manuals
expensive.

Next on the list of independent manuals are those from Robert Bentley
Publishing in your adopted home town of Cambridge, MA.  Bentley
manuals are so good that some automakers contract out the manuals to
Bentley.  VW manuals, for example come from (or used to come from)
Bentley.  Look here:  http://www.bentleypublishers.com/

Next on the list are the Haynes manuals.  They're OK for the mechanic
who has a general idea of the repair procedure, but sometimes they get
it wrong; sometimes they use procedures or images that apply to
earlier models; sometimes they try to cover a span of model years that
is too broad, so the info's not specific enough (which is OK if you
have some repair sense); and sometimes they simply ignore a critical
service step in their manuals.  But many experienced independent
mechanics and skilled amateurs do very well with Haynes manuals.

Very last on the list -- at the very, very bottom of the barrel -- are
the Chilton manuals.  They are tenth on a list of five.   Chilton
manuals are so bad that they belong in the bathroom where you can tear
out a page for other purposes.  Fortunately, they print 'em on cheap,
soft paper that doesn't scratch when used for that "other purpose."
Before I knew this about that, I bought a Chilton manual for one of my
cars.  I paid $2, and that was $2 too much.  I've never, ever used it
because the organization of info was bad, the specifics were too
general, and the presentation of info was garbled.  In fact, the
Chilton manual did not even address the type of fuel injection in my
car -- they simply left it out.  (And, fortunately, the FI has been
trouble free for years.)

You ordered a Chilton manual, huh?  It will probably suit you well.

Your friend, Oneup.
larry moe 'n curly - 14 Mar 2008 20:41 GMT
oneup.ag...@gmail.com wrote:

> Here's the story on manuals.  Almost without exception, factory
> manuals are the best (and most expensive).  Who knows more about the
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Next on the list are the Haynes manuals.

What?  Shouldn't Mitchell manuals come ahead of Haynes???
Hachiroku ハチロク - 15 Mar 2008 02:25 GMT
On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 03:15:33 -0700, oneup.again wrote:

>> How good are the Toyota Corp. Repair Manuals?  They offer two for my
>> vehicle.  The engine one seems a bit pricey at $60.00.   I bought the
[quoted text clipped - 50 lines]
>
> Your friend, Oneup.

WHAT?! This is IT?!

Toyota Prius: 2001-2008

Toyota Prius
Repair and Maintenance Manual: 2004-2008
Toyota Land Cruiser: 1958-1996 Toyota Truck: 1958-1996

Toyota Truck and Land Cruiser Owner's Bible™
Toyota Corolla 1600: 1975-1979

Toyota Corolla Service Manual: 1975-1979 (paper)
Toyota Corolla 1.8: 1980-1983

Toyota Corolla Service Manual: 1980-1983 (paper)
Windsurfer - 15 Mar 2008 14:03 GMT
> On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 03:15:33 -0700, oneup.again wrote:
> >> How good are the Toyota Corp. Repair Manuals?  They offer two for my
[quoted text clipped - 67 lines]
>
> Toyota Corolla Service Manual: 1980-1983 (paper)

Amazing set of replies, thanks to everyone.  Even ThrowUp contributed
something.  He has never done that.  However, if you own your vehicles
to drive them somewhere rather than use them to while away your time
in your garage, I have found the Chilton manuals have kept me on the
road enough to cross the U.S. twenty times.  The point made about
tools is a good one.  For example when changing your rear brake shoes,
do you really need specialized tools?  I don't.
oneup.again@gmail.com - 15 Mar 2008 20:02 GMT
> > On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 03:15:33 -0700, oneup.again wrote:
> > >> How good are the Toyota Corp. Repair Manuals?  They offer two for my
[quoted text clipped - 75 lines]
> tools is a good one.  For example when changing your rear brake shoes,
> do you really need specialized tools?  I don't.

"...when changing your rear brake shoes, do you really need
specialized tools?"

It depends on (a) what you mean by "specialized" tools, and (b) what
type of brakes your car has.

From the pictures you posted, it appears that your Toyota has ordinary
drum brakes.  For that, you'll need a pair of brake pliers, a spring
tool, and maybe a brake spoon, in addition to ordinary hand tools.
Are these "specialized"?  To some, yes -- to others, no.  (For
example, I have several of each of those "special" tools.)  And if you
must rebuild the cylinder, then you also need a brake hone.

If you're working on disc brakes, then you'll need different tools.
(But since you said "shoes" and not "pads," then we won't discuss disc
brakes.)

As I'm sure you know, keep oil and grease away from the brake shoes
and drums and also far away from the brake hydraulics.  Brake fluid is
NOT oil based -- it's similar to a long-chain ether or alcohol
(actually, it's a glycol), which is why it's so hygroscopic.

Chilton's manuals might be OK for American cars.   My experience with
European cars has been different.

BTW -- how about adding my email to your "team" on your blog?  I
promise -- I'll only say nice things, as I did before.  Anyway, how
many response have you had?  Only two, and both were mine.  Well,
actually three, but Robert Bruce removed my comment about Sidney
Greenstreet, which was a mistake because Greenstreet was a VERY
impressive actor and my comment was meant to be complimentary and in
the best of taste.
swiftwater - 16 Mar 2008 11:21 GMT
Along with all the other junk on this forum, we now have the internet
stalker, Oneup.  I certainly wouldn't read the last post, but I did
read his introduction to the board.  Certainly if you are a grease
monkey like him, you can find the nuances of repair manuals
fascinating.  However, I don't.  The Chilton for my Toyota will be
arriving soon.  If I can find a used  Bentley (Car or Manual), I might
buy it.  However, you can only get so much out of books.  The Toyota
factory manual for my vehicle I found on the internet.
oneup.again@gmail.com - 16 Mar 2008 14:10 GMT
> Along with all the other junk on this forum, we now have the internet
> stalker, Oneup.  I certainly wouldn't read the last post, but I did
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> buy it.  However, you can only get so much out of books.  The Toyota
> factory manual for my vehicle I found on the internet.

"Certainly if you are a grease monkey like him..."

Grease monkey?  Hardly, Brucie.  Just a knowledgeable, skilled, and
well prepared pool cleaner from Florida.  For example, I've used Easy-
outs dozens of times and never snapped one.  I did lend one to a
friend in North Falmouth, however, and he snapped it...  As you know,
I'm always willing to share my knowledge and experiences with others,
including you, big guy.  You're just too boneheaded to take advantage
of it.

"...you can find the nuances of repair manuals fascinating..."

Brucie, one must be able to read and understand in order to find the
"nuances" to be fascinating.  This explains why so little fascinates
you.  Except yourself, of course.
Windsurfer - 20 Mar 2008 12:18 GMT
So, the Chilton Toy manual arrived yesterday and has already been
helpful.  I used to sell Jeeps when they were a division of AMC and
new SUV's and 4X4's back before they became a household word.
However, I have found that one forgets, especially that these kinds of
vehicles are rather useless.  However, now I'm stuck with one, a WWII
relic for sure.  What the Hanes manual didn't include was that one
should definitely be vigilant about repacking  the wheel bearings
regularly if you are driving in water above the hubs.  This was never
a maintenance issue with front wheel drive which is all anyone really
needs.
Windsurfer - 20 Mar 2008 12:23 GMT
On Mar 16, 8:10 am, oneup.ag...@gmail.com wrote:

> > Along with all the other junk on this forum, we now have the internet
> > stalker, Oneup.  I certainly wouldn't read the last post, but I did
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> "nuances" to be fascinating.  This explains why so little fascinates
> you.  Except yourself, of course.

Let me inform anyone on this board that this guy has been stalking me
for ten years over the internet.  Whereas many of you  boot up and go
to a Topic search, this Florida Faggot goes after me.   He doesn't
know sh.t-for-beans, either.  As to Bentley Manuals, it doesn't
surprise me that people who have an address in the 1700 Block of Mass.
Ave, Cambridge wouldn't be putting out fancy practical books for a
higher price.  It's doubtful, though, that they are published there.
In fact, you are probably dealing with a mail order office.
oneup.again@gmail.com - 20 Mar 2008 18:30 GMT
> Let me inform anyone on this board that this guy has been stalking me
> for ten years over the internet.  Whereas many of you  boot up and go
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> higher price.  It's doubtful, though, that they are published there.
> In fact, you are probably dealing with a mail order office.

Brucie, you have no idea how much fun it is to wind you up and set you
loose.  I've been enjoying this pastime for years.

In fact, others have had so much fun watching you that they've created
a "mockumentary" comic strip about you and your dozens and dozens of
aliases:  http://www.teamcoyote.net/shot_otd.html
swiftwater - 21 Mar 2008 12:07 GMT
No read on last post, but definitely the Chilton has provided helpful
reading material.
oneup.again@gmail.com - 21 Mar 2008 14:56 GMT
> No read on last post, but definitely the Chilton has provided helpful
> reading material.

And considering that it's you, then it's no surprise that Chilton's
provides interesting reading.  After you're done with each page, tear
it our for bathroom use.
Windsurfer - 28 Mar 2008 13:09 GMT
> No read on last post, but definitely the Chilton has provided helpful
> reading material.

So, let's take an example here.  I'm just dealing with comparisons
between the Hanes and Chilton.  The Hanes manual I bought new in Auto
Zone had a section on changing the fuel filter, but it didn't include
any relevant information about my fuel filter except that one should
remove the case before attempting to remove the filter.  It pictured a
filter that wasn't in my vehicle and explained how to remove it.  It
didn't have flair nuts for fitings, it had banjo joints.  My filter
was mounted vertically and this one was pictured as mounted
horizontally.  The Chilton entry was much better, but rather
general.   Nothing was included about the difficulty of access or the
location behind the cross-member support piece of the chassis.  It
recommends using a torque wrench to tighten the flair nuts as
pictured.  However, it seems impossible to be able to fit a 3/8 drive
torque wrench correctly on the nut unless it was shortened somehow.  I
barely was able to tighten the nut with a motorcycle wrench.  In fact
after driving for two days and inspecting the fiting often, I found
that I had indeed overtightened the nut and the connection was
leaking.  With the gas dripping down onto the floor, my face and my
clothing, I tried finding the right torque for the nut without
success.  Today, I have to come up with the right solution.  I've
thought of installing an O-ring or sealing the joint with J.B. Weld.
I'm afraid the joint has been compromised by the over-torquing.
oneup.again@gmail.com - 28 Mar 2008 15:18 GMT
> > No read on last post, but definitely the Chilton has provided helpful
> > reading material.
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> thought of installing an O-ring or sealing the joint with J.B. Weld.
> I'm afraid the joint has been compromised by the over-torquing.

Since Swiftwater = Windsurfer = Brucie, it's clear that you're again
responding to your own posts.

But your comments are interesting and directly parallel my analysis of
Haynes -- they're good if you know what're you're doing but useless if
you're useless.

You have a manual that matches you. Brucie.
Ray O - 29 Mar 2008 06:47 GMT
>> No read on last post, but definitely the Chilton has provided helpful
>> reading material.
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> thought of installing an O-ring or sealing the joint with J.B. Weld.
> I'm afraid the joint has been compromised by the over-torquing.

An O-ring or J.B. Weld is not the right solution.  The correct solution is
to replace the section of fuel line that was damaged.
Signature


Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

beerspill@whoever.com - 29 Mar 2008 07:44 GMT
> The Hanes manual I bought new in Auto
> Zone had a section on changing the fuel filter,

>  In fact
> after driving for two days and inspecting the fiting often, I found
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> thought of installing an O-ring or sealing the joint with J.B. Weld.
> I'm afraid the joint has been compromised by the over-torquing.

Those aren't the right solution, and when it comes to gasoline under
pressure, you need the right solution.  Stripped threads on the outlet
side of the filter can let slivers of metal into the fuel injection
system.
Windsurfer - 29 Mar 2008 13:18 GMT
Actually, I found that I had under torqued the fitting and, with some
trouble, now have it right.  Since I could only fit a 5 1/2 inch long
wrench in the space provided by Toyota, I had to exert an excessive
amount of force to tighten it fully.  As I was worried about over-
torquing, too,  I didn't give it enough at the original installation.
I had to buy a shortened 19cm wrench which was 7 inches long to work
against the motorcycle wrench as my standard sized tools didn't fit.
It was quite difficult holding one wrench at an adequate angle and
then fiting my other hand into the space provided to pull on the
wrench that fit the nut.  I will send you invitations to my blog where
you can see pictures.
Tomes - 29 Mar 2008 15:14 GMT
"Windsurfer"...
> Actually, I found that I had under torqued the fitting and, with some
> trouble, now have it right.  Since I could only fit a 5 1/2 inch long
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> wrench that fit the nut.  I will send you invitations to my blog where
> you can see pictures.

It's like I tell my 6th graders, it is good to be able to do hard things.
Tomes
Windsurfer - 29 Mar 2008 13:53 GMT
On Mar 29, 1:44 am, beersp...@whoever.com wrote:
> > The Hanes manual I bought new in Auto
> > Zone had a section on changing the fuel filter,
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> side of the filter can let slivers of metal into the fuel injection
> system.

I do hope that with all the struggling I did with the old nut I didn't
introduce slivers into the injection system.  Now, though, I have
something more to worry about.
Tomes - 29 Mar 2008 15:16 GMT
"Windsurfer" ...
> , beersp...@whoever.com :
>> Windsurfer :
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> introduce slivers into the injection system.  Now, though, I have
> something more to worry about.

From the information in your other post indicating that all you needed to do
was to tighten further, you will not need to worry about this.
Tomes
fishnjokr@verizon.net - 29 Mar 2008 18:45 GMT
Look on eBay.  Sometimes you can find one cheaper.

> How good are the Toyota Corp. Repair Manuals?  They offer two for my
> vehicle.  The engine one seems a bit pricey at $60.00.   I bought the
> Hanes manual and don't like it.  It was useful, though.  I've always
> preferred the Chilton publications for my GM vehicles so I just
> ordered a used one for my 4-runner over Amazon.
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2010 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.