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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / May 2008Plan on driving a new car on a 3000mile highway trip. Bad idea?
I was planning on taking my soon to take possession Highlander V6 on a trip which will consist mostly of highway driving of about 3000mile drive and been told that that's not such a good idea because you don't want to drive a brand new car on the highway for any extended amount if you can help before the car's properly broken in. The seals, rings and the machine just needs to set in properly, which happens during the break in period and before that, I was told you should avoid any long highway trip. What do you guys think? If this was your car, would you do it or put off the trip until after the car's broken in properly? Thanks. > I was planning on taking my soon to take possession Highlander V6 on a > trip which will consist mostly of highway driving of about 3000mile [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > What do you guys think? If this was your car, would you do it or put > off the trip until after the car's broken in properly? Thanks. I think that used to be true of older cars but today's cars are built with such high tolerances that it is not true anymore. >I was planning on taking my soon to take possession Highlander V6 on a >trip which will consist mostly of highway driving of about 3000mile [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >What do you guys think? If this was your car, would you do it or put >off the trip until after the car's broken in properly? Thanks. Well that is complete crap. Take it on the trip! Just vary the speed and don't use cruise.....  SignatureScott in Florida > I was planning on taking my soon to take possession Highlander V6 on a > trip which will consist mostly of highway driving of about 3000mile [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > What do you guys think? If this was your car, would you do it or put > off the trip until after the car's broken in properly? Thanks. Are you getting a Pilot or a Highlander? Why are you asking the same question in different newsgroups about different trucks? Jeff >I was planning on taking my soon to take possession Highlander V6 on a > trip which will consist mostly of highway driving of about 3000mile [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > What do you guys think? If this was your car, would you do it or put > off the trip until after the car's broken in properly? Thanks. (Also posted in alt.autos.lexus) I've taken 50 or 60 new cars and driven them for roughly 12,000 miles of mostly highway driving with no problems. The nature of our business was most of the people in our office also had to drive mostly highway miles. Figure 30 people get 4 new cars a year for 120 new cars a year, x my 15 years experience for 18,000 cars with no ill effects of driving mostly highway miles from the time they are put into service. Many of those cars were bought by employees, relatives, and friends afterwards and they did not experience any problems related to how the vehicles were broken in. Enjoy your trip in your new ride! SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >> I was planning on taking my soon to take possession Highlander V6 on a >> trip which will consist mostly of highway driving of about 3000mile [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > years experience for 18,000 cars with no ill effects of driving mostly > highway miles from the time they are put into service. 15 x 120 = 1800, not 18,000 > Many of those cars > were bought by employees, relatives, and friends afterwards and they did not > experience any problems related to how the vehicles were broken in. > > Enjoy your trip in your new ride! >>> I was planning on taking my soon to take possession Highlander V6 on a >>> trip which will consist mostly of highway driving of about 3000mile [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > 15 x 120 = 1800, not 18,000 Doh! My bad, good catch! SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > I was planning on taking my soon to take possession Highlander V6 on a > trip which will consist mostly of highway driving of about 3000mile drive [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > What do you guys think? If this was your car, would you do it or put off > the trip until after the car's broken in properly? Thanks. I'm old-school. I drive a car 1500 miles and then do the first oil change. Then I do the next one at 3000 miles, and every 3-3500 after that. I also had 3 cars go over 250,000 miles without burning oil. Five-hundred miles is approx 8 hours. I would prbably go pretty easy for the first 1,000 miles, secondary roads and short stretches on the highway around cities. This will do two things; allow the machine to run at something other than wide open, and force variations in load and speed like the manual says to do. It seems I can tell when a car was broken in properly or not. On cars I had had new, they don't tend to develop 'notches' at certain speeds. By this I mean, on cars other than ones I bought new, I can notice that the car seems to hit a stride ~45-50 MPH, and another ~70 MPH. What I assume is that the person that bought the car new had two driving modes: secondary roads (45 MPH) and highway (70 MPH). I have noticed this on a few used cars I have owned. On cars I bought new and broke in properly, there weren't any 'notches', everything was fairly even across the range. You will hit speeds and conditions on any car, no matter how it was broken in due to engine and mechanical efficiencies. On most 4 cylinder Toyotas I have owned, they seem to hit their stride 70~75 MPH, since I assume this is the engine's most efficient mode. I have noticed this on 4 or 5 Toyotas I have owned. Always got the best economy at about 72 MPH in 5th gear. Of course, with newer cars and a V6, things are different now, but I would still take it pretty easy for the first 1500 miles, and stop and have the oil changed. >> I was planning on taking my soon to take possession Highlander V6 on a >> trip which will consist mostly of highway driving of about 3000mile drive [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > is the engine's most efficient mode. I have noticed this on 4 or 5 Toyotas > I have owned. Always got the best economy at about 72 MPH in 5th gear. How do you know that the speeds that the cars were driven at had anything to do with these "strides"? And why would driving a car a particular speed cause this? I think you don't know what you're talking about. From the owner's manual for a 2008 Pilot: "Help assure your vehicle’s future reliability and performance by paying extra attention to how you drive during the first 600 miles (1,000 km). During this period: Avoid full-throttle starts and rapid acceleration. Do not change the oil until the scheduled maintenance time. Avoid hard braking for the first 200 miles (300 km). Do not tow a trailer. You should also follow these recommendations with an overhauled or exchanged engine, or when the brakes are replaced." Note what the manual says about the first oil change. > Of course, with newer cars and a V6, things are different now, but I would > still take it pretty easy for the first 1500 miles, and stop and have the > oil changed. >>> I was planning on taking my soon to take possession Highlander V6 on a >>> trip which will consist mostly of highway driving of about 3000mile [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] >> still take it pretty easy for the first 1500 miles, and stop and have the >> oil changed. what??? read the manual??? no freakin' chance buddy! we're all going to have a retardation contest here on usenet and take the words of nameless idiots with our new multi-thousand dollar investments, not the experts that researched, designed and manufactured the freakin' thing! imagine these guys in aerospace: "yeah, but this guy said those cracks didn't matter". > imagine these guys in aerospace: "yeah, but this guy said those cracks > didn't matter". That's fuckin' hilarious. I can just see the NASA engineers hitting up Google, finding the space shuttle fanboi forums, and then listening to them. >> imagine these guys in aerospace: "yeah, but this guy said those cracks >> didn't matter". > > That's fuckin' hilarious. I can just see the NASA engineers hitting up > Google, finding the space shuttle fanboi forums, and then listening to > them. Depends on where the cracks are, Some are tolerable, some aren't. >>>> I was planning on taking my soon to take possession Highlander V6 on a >>>> trip which will consist mostly of highway driving of about 3000mile [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] > imagine these guys in aerospace: "yeah, but this guy said those cracks > didn't matter". You have had how many cars >230,000 miles? Feh. Some things change, some things don't. Rings and cylinder walls are still about the same as they were 20 years ago. >>>>> I was planning on taking my soon to take possession Highlander V6 on a >>>>> trip which will consist mostly of highway driving of about 3000mile [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] > > You have had how many cars >230,000 miles? a few actually. 306k was my highest [verifiable] mileage. but wtf has that got to do with inability to read manuals??? > Feh. > > Some things change, some things don't. Rings and cylinder walls are still > about the same as they were 20 years ago. "about the same"??? you want to be imprecise so you can claim whatever you want that way??? or are you saying "about" you don't actually know the details??? [rhetorical] it's untrue if you think there are no changes - there are small but subtle changes to lip profiles that help with power and economy, and there are improvements to honing processes giving better cylinder wall finish, and quality. >>>>>> I was planning on taking my soon to take possession Highlander V6 on >>>>>> a trip which will consist mostly of highway driving of about [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > a few actually. 306k was my highest [verifiable] mileage. but wtf has > that got to do with inability to read manuals??? I doubt the manual was written with a 3,000 mile all-at-once break in in mind. >> Feh. >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > improvements to honing processes giving better cylinder wall finish, and > quality. All the more reason to pay particular attention to the break in period, especially when driving long distances during that period. >>>>>>> I was planning on taking my soon to take possession Highlander V6 on >>>>>>> a trip which will consist mostly of highway driving of about [quoted text clipped - 98 lines] > All the more reason to pay particular attention to the break in period, > especially when driving long distances during that period. you're making no sense whatsoever. >>>> Some things change, some things don't. Rings and cylinder walls are >>>> still about the same as they were 20 years ago. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> > you're making no sense whatsoever. And your advice to the OP was? The guy's concerned about driving the car 3,000 nearly non-stop. He was looking for advice. You offer a pissing contest from a know-it-all. Here. Take another look: >>> there are small but >>> subtle changes to lip profiles that help with power and economy >> All the more reason to pay particular attention to the break in period, >> especially when driving long distances during that period. There. Does it make sense now, or are you that thick? >>>>> Some things change, some things don't. Rings and cylinder walls are >>>>> still about the same as they were 20 years ago. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > And your advice to the OP was? i didn't offer any - it's already been said. "read the owner manual". > The guy's concerned about driving the car 3,000 nearly non-stop. He was > looking for advice. You offer a pissing contest from a know-it-all. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > There. Does it make sense now, or are you that thick? but you're not making any sense. again. you don't know what you're talking about. >> And your advice to the OP was? > > i didn't offer any - it's already been said. "read the owner manual". But not for an extreme condition such as this. >> The guy's concerned about driving the car 3,000 nearly non-stop. He was >> looking for advice. You offer a pissing contest from a know-it-all. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > but you're not making any sense. again. you don't know what you're > talking about. How many hours a day do you spend smacking your frontal lobes with a ball-peen hammer? >>> And your advice to the OP was? >> i didn't offer any - it's already been said. "read the owner manual". > > But not for an extreme condition such as this. What extreme condition? Driving on the highway? That's a normal condition. In fact, highway driving is easier on an engine than city driving. Jeff <...> >>>> And your advice to the OP was? >>> i didn't offer any - it's already been said. "read the owner manual". [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > <...> Read the excerpt from the Highlander Owner's Manual I posted. > How do you know that the speeds that the cars were driven at had > anything to do with these "strides"? And why would driving a car a > particular speed cause this? > > I think you don't know what you're talking about. Some people develop superstitions, and live their lives by those. Car owners are especially susceptible. Go by your owner's manual. Things do change over time, and things that were appropriate back then don't apply now. But you'll never get over the superstition. >> You will hit speeds and conditions on any car, no matter how it was >> broken in due to engine and mechanical efficiencies. On most 4 cylinder [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I think you don't know what you're talking about. The cars I have had new and have broken in myself have not had this problem. The couple of cars I bought used that do this have a tendancy to 'settle' around 45 and 65 or so. The 7 new cars I broke in didn't do this. And two of them were identical models. And my Supra seems to settle around 60. It's a Canadian car, and whne I say 60 I mean 60 KmH. But, you never think I know what I'm talking about anyway, so I just consider the source. >>> You will hit speeds and conditions on any car, no matter how it was >>> broken in due to engine and mechanical efficiencies. On most 4 cylinder [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > But, you never think I know what I'm talking about anyway, so I just > consider the source. So do I. ;-) >>>> You will hit speeds and conditions on any car, no matter how it was >>>> broken in due to engine and mechanical efficiencies. On most 4 [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > So do I. ;-) Touche! > How do you know that the speeds that the cars were driven at had > anything to do with these "strides"? And why would driving a car a > particular speed cause this? > > I think you don't know what you're talking about. I think I've probably broken in more new cars than you have. The manual also probably recommends changing the oil every 7.500 miles whether it needs it or not. I've had a half dozen successes with my method, and was trying to pass on *experience* to the OP. Don't like it? Don't follow it! Simple! >> How do you know that the speeds that the cars were driven at had >> anything to do with these "strides"? And why would driving a car a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > The manual also probably recommends changing the oil every 7.500 miles > whether it needs it or not. Seven and a half miles? Gee, my mechanic is more than 7.5 miles away. > I've had a half dozen successes with my method, and was trying to pass on > *experience* to the OP. Don't like it? Don't follow it! Simple! So was I, which is, follow the manual, not some guy you don't know on the internet. It has long been rumored that there are people who are totally clueless twits who write on the internet. So which makes more sense: To follow the advice of the people who actually build the cars or someone who may or may not know what they are talking about? Jeff >>> How do you know that the speeds that the cars were driven at had >>> anything to do with these "strides"? And why would driving a car a [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Jeff You just gotta argue about everything, don't you? The guy's not talking about a gentle break in, he's talking about a coast to coast trip with a new vehicle, presumably as quickly as possible. I gave him the benefit of my experience. You, as usual, offer nothing. Matter of fact, I can't for the life of me ever remember when you actually did something other than question and obfuscate what others have said. If you leave tomorrow, I don't think you'd be missed. Don't let the door slap you... >>>> How do you know that the speeds that the cars were driven at had >>>> anything to do with these "strides"? And why would driving a car a [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > The guy's not talking about a gentle break in, he's talking about a coast > to coast trip with a new vehicle, presumably as quickly as possible. Presumably? Well, considering that the guy posted about two different vehicles on two different newsgroups, I don't think there is a real purchase. > I gave him the benefit of my experience. You, as usual, offer nothing. Bull! I gave him the benefit of *my* experience and knowledge. And my experience is that these trucks and cars are changing and evolving over the years. There are newer and better oils, better manufacturing and machining methods and better ways to assemble the engines, resulting in different break-in requirements. The people who build the cars know more than you or I. What applies to cars made 10, 20 or 30 years ago may or may not apply to cars made today. > Matter of fact, I can't for the life of me ever remember when you actually > did something other than question and obfuscate what others have said. You must have a very limited life. However, questioning is far better than giving out-dated and incorrect advice, as you did. > If you leave tomorrow, I don't think you'd be missed. Don't let the door > slap you... You know, there is something called a filter, aka, kill file that comes with newsgroups. Please feel free to put me on yours. Jeff >>>>> How do you know that the speeds that the cars were driven at had >>>>> anything to do with these "strides"? And why would driving a car a [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > vehicles on two different newsgroups, I don't think there is a real > purchase. IIRC, the original post said he was thinking about taking delivery of a new (whatever). I would extrapolate the choice is between a Highlander and a Pilot, similar vehicles, although I believe the Highlander is slightly smaller. >> I gave him the benefit of my experience. You, as usual, offer nothing. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > machining methods and better ways to assemble the engines, resulting in > different break-in requirements. Thanks. I'll stick to my way. Works for me. > The people who build the cars know more than you or I. > > What applies to cars made 10, 20 or 30 years ago may or may not apply to > cars made today. Pistons and rings still slide against cylinder walls. That still happens. And that's not including other systems in the vehicle. >> Matter of fact, I can't for the life of me ever remember when you >> actually did something other than question and obfuscate what others [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > However, questioning is far better than giving out-dated and incorrect > advice, as you did. Who says it's incorrect? The manual said basically the same thing 7, 12, 14 and 20 years ago. I was pointing out generalizations for breaking in any car, and as someone pointed out, they're still listed in the manual: avoid abrupt starts and stops, vary the speed, etc. Basically what I told the OP. With the exception of changing the oil at 1,500 miles. That's the only real departure I took from the manual. Unless the engine has a special 'break in' oil like a Honda, I don't see what the big deal is. What it really comes down to is driving the car 3,000 miles pretty much at once. As usual, a molehill turns into a mountain with you. >> If you leave tomorrow, I don't think you'd be missed. Don't let the door >> slap you... > > You know, there is something called a filter, aka, kill file that comes > with newsgroups. Please feel free to put me on yours. Nah, I need a good laugh every day. > Jeff >>>>>> How do you know that the speeds that the cars were driven at had >>>>>> anything to do with these "strides"? And why would driving a car a [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > Thanks. I'll stick to my way. Works for me. but you don't know that! all you know is that honda and toyota tolerate you - they survive in spite of your behavior, not because of it!!! >> The people who build the cars know more than you or I. >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > only real departure I took from the manual. Unless the engine has a > special 'break in' oil like a Honda, I don't see what the big deal is. "the deal" is that the engine needs to build up an amorphous carbonaceous layer on the cylinder walls. you will have seen that when taking the heads off engines. what you probably haven't done though is do a micro hardness test on it to find that's it's very hard and that it gives a good, low friction working surface for the cylinder wall. for the engine to last well, that layer needs to build up quickly, but not excessively. the best way to do it is to have a "dirty" oil keep circulating fine soot/combustion product particles. hence, if you change the first oil too soon, you delay build-up and the wear rate stays higher, longer than it otherwise would. > What it really comes down to is driving the car 3,000 miles pretty much at > once. > > As usual, a molehill turns into a mountain with you. it's neither mountain nor molehill - it's just plain ignorant. if you asked questions, that would be different. but instead you just voice underinformed opinion - it's utterly worthless. >>> If you leave tomorrow, I don't think you'd be missed. Don't let the door >>> slap you... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >> Jeff >>>> I gave him the benefit of my experience. You, as usual, offer nothing. >>> Bull! I gave him the benefit of *my* experience and knowledge. And my [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > but you don't know that! all you know is that honda and toyota tolerate > you - they survive in spite of your behavior, not because of it!!! Are you a fool, or what?!?!? I guess the next new car I get, I'll screech the tires out of the dealership and then take it for a 100 mile rip on the freeway at 125 MPH, just because the Owner's Manual doesn't say not to do it. Actually, it does say not to, but according to you, I guess it would be ok. I like to be gentle on new mechanical components, and not take them to the 'recommended limits' in the first 1,000-1,500 miles. My God, are you obtuse. >>> The people who build the cars know more than you or I. >>> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > change the first oil too soon, you delay build-up and the wear rate > stays higher, longer than it otherwise would. After about 1 million miles split between 4 cars, I think my method works just fine. >> What it really comes down to is driving the car 3,000 miles pretty much at >> once. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > asked questions, that would be different. but instead you just voice > underinformed opinion - it's utterly worthless. The OP asked about taking a new car on a 3,000 mile trip, and if it was a bad idea. What I didn't say was, yeah, I think it's a bad idea, but if I had to do it, here's how I'd do it. If it's a Honda with the 'special break in oil', then yeah, skip the 1,500 oil change. If it's a Toyota, I'd change the oil. I have changed the oil. I've been rewarded with car that have lasted me up to 20 years. You appear to be an Educated Fool, merely for arguing. If you had said, "Hachi threw in a oil change that I would skip", OK, then I guess it doesn't need to be done. As far as an 'amorphous layer', it'll get there, don't worry. >>>> If you leave tomorrow, I don't think you'd be missed. Don't let the door >>>> slap you... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >>> Jeff >>>>> I gave him the benefit of my experience. You, as usual, offer nothing. >>>> Bull! I gave him the benefit of *my* experience and knowledge. And my [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Are you a fool, or what?!?!? no, i'm a pedant with a low bullshit tolerance level. > I guess the next new car I get, I'll screech the tires out of the > dealership and then take it for a 100 mile rip on the freeway at 125 MPH, > just because the Owner's Manual doesn't say not to do it. actually it does. "Avoid full-throttle starts and rapid acceleration." remember? [you should, you quoted it.] > Actually, it does say not to, idiot. > but according to you, I guess it would be ok. don't put false words in my mouth. > I like to be gentle on new mechanical components, and not take them to the > 'recommended limits' in the first 1,000-1,500 miles. based on what? the owners manual? or your own research? > My God, are you obtuse. i may indeed be. but relative to what? >>>> The people who build the cars know more than you or I. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > After about 1 million miles split between 4 cars, I think my method works > just fine. how many cars??? pick a story and stick to it dude. if you want us to believe your numbers. >>> What it really comes down to is driving the car 3,000 miles pretty much at >>> once. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > You appear to be an Educated Fool, merely for arguing. so it's wrong to correct misconception and bullshit? > If you had said, "Hachi threw in a oil change that I would skip", OK, then > I guess it doesn't need to be done. as you'd know if you'd have bothered to read the owners manual! > As far as an 'amorphous layer', it'll > get there, don't worry. the point is, you're just repeating useless garbage with no purpose. in fact, it may even be harmful garbage. so, again, why do you do it? you can't back any of that stuff up - you're just repeating what you heard from some dude who heard it from another dude - and so on back to whenever. if you don't have definite knowledge, or you haven't studied this stuff, you're just wasting electrons and muddying the water. >>>>> If you leave tomorrow, I don't think you'd be missed. Don't let the door >>>>> slap you... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>> >>>> Jeff >>> but you don't know that! all you know is that honda and toyota >>> tolerate you - they survive in spite of your behavior, not because of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > no, i'm a pedant with a low bullshit tolerance level. I gave the guy a suggestion for breaking in a new car on a 3,000 mile trip. Where's the bullshit? >> I guess the next new car I get, I'll screech the tires out of the >> dealership and then take it for a 100 mile rip on the freeway at 125 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > idiot. moron. >> but according to you, I guess it would be ok. > > don't put false words in my mouth. >>>>>> How do you know that the speeds that the cars were driven at had >>>>>> anything to do with these "strides"? And why would driving a car a [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > a Pilot, similar vehicles, although I believe the Highlander is slightly > smaller. You recall correctly. However, he did also post the same question to the Honda newsgroup about a Pilot. Same exact message, except for the Pilot. >>> I gave him the benefit of my experience. You, as usual, offer nothing. >> Bull! I gave him the benefit of *my* experience and knowledge. And my [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Thanks. I'll stick to my way. Works for me. Perhaps it did. However, that doesn't mean it is right for today's vehicles. >> The people who build the cars know more than you or I. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Pistons and rings still slide against cylinder walls. That still happens. > And that's not including other systems in the vehicle. Just like when I used to bore and hone blocks myself. But today's cars and trucks have much closer clearances. >>> Matter of fact, I can't for the life of me ever remember when you >>> actually did something other than question and obfuscate what others [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Who says it's incorrect? The manual said basically the same thing 7, 12, > 14 and 20 years ago. 7 years ago? A lot has changed since then. > I was pointing out generalizations for breaking in > any car, Any old car made to yesterday's specs. > and as someone pointed out, they're still listed in the manual: > avoid abrupt starts and stops, vary the speed, etc. Actually, I don't recall anything about varying the speed. And avoiding the abrupt starts and stops was for the brakes. > Basically what I told > the OP. With the exception of changing the oil at 1,500 miles. That's the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > What it really comes down to is driving the car 3,000 miles pretty much at > once. No reason not to with today's engines. > As usual, a molehill turns into a mountain with you. You seem to be make a mountain. >>> If you leave tomorrow, I don't think you'd be missed. Don't let the door >>> slap you... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >> Jeff > > and as someone pointed out, they're still listed in the manual: >> avoid abrupt starts and stops, vary the speed, etc. > > Actually, I don't recall anything about varying the speed. And avoiding > the abrupt starts and stops was for the brakes. Look at one of my posts to jim beam. I posted what I found from the Honda owner's manual, and from a Highlander. The Honda's didn't really say a lot, the Highlander did say not to drive the car at any one speed for a period of time. >> Basically what I told >> the OP. With the exception of changing the oil at 1,500 miles. That's [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > No reason not to with today's engines. What's so much different? Still iron block and aluminum heads with steel pistons and rings. And everyone keeps throwing 'closer tolerances' at me. I would think it would be MORE important to take it easy the first couple thousand miles if walls are thinner, etc. >> > and as someone pointed out, they're still listed in the manual: >>> avoid abrupt starts and stops, vary the speed, etc. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > lot, the Highlander did say not to drive the car at any one speed for a > period of time. so what exactly is happening with the motor at one speed that's not happening at another? perhaps you can explain? >>> Basically what I told >>> the OP. With the exception of changing the oil at 1,500 miles. That's [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > What's so much different? Still iron block and aluminum heads with steel > pistons and rings. hondas are aluminum block, but you don't let the details worry you much, do you? > And everyone keeps throwing 'closer tolerances' at me. I would think it > would be MORE important to take it easy the first couple thousand miles if > walls are thinner, etc. "thinner"??? exactly what difference do you think that would make??? >> Look at one of my posts to jim beam. I posted what I found from the >> Honda owner's manual, and from a Highlander. The Honda's didn't really [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > so what exactly is happening with the motor at one speed that's not > happening at another? perhaps you can explain? Gee, I don't know. Why do you suppose the Highlander's manual said to avoid at any one constant speed for an extended distance? Explain that one, Genius. >>>> Basically what I told >>>> the OP. With the exception of changing the oil at 1,500 miles. That's [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > hondas are aluminum block, but you don't let the details worry you much, > do you? I was answering in the Toyota group. It was crossposted. But, since aluminum is a much softer metal, I think I'd want to take a little care during the first thousand miles or so. >> And everyone keeps throwing 'closer tolerances' at me. I would think it >> would be MORE important to take it easy the first couple thousand miles >> if walls are thinner, etc. > > "thinner"??? exactly what difference do you think that would make??? Gee, I dunno. Perhaps excessive wear caused by someone not being careful during break in would cause irrepairable damage, for example? Thinner walls means replacing the block rather than boring and honing. Speaking of boring... >>> Look at one of my posts to jim beam. I posted what I found from the >>> Honda owner's manual, and from a Highlander. The Honda's didn't really [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Explain that one, Genius. i was hoping you'd tell me! >>>>> Basically what I told >>>>> the OP. With the exception of changing the oil at 1,500 miles. That's [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > aluminum is a much softer metal, I think I'd want to take a little care > during the first thousand miles or so. it's an aluminum block, but it's not an aluminum liner!!! >>> And everyone keeps throwing 'closer tolerances' at me. I would think it >>> would be MORE important to take it easy the first couple thousand miles [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Gee, I dunno. Perhaps excessive wear caused by someone not being careful > during break in would cause irrepairable damage, for example? to the aluminum block??? > Thinner walls means replacing the block rather than boring and honing. dude, you're clueless. you can re-bore a standard honda block twice - +0.25mm & +0.50mm. > Speaking of boring... you need to do some homework. >> Thinner walls means replacing the block rather than boring and honing. > > dude, you're clueless. you can re-bore a standard honda block twice - > +0.25mm & +0.50mm. I haven't re-bored anything on 4 cars >240,000 miles. No need to. They were broken in properly... >>> Thinner walls means replacing the block rather than boring and honing. >> dude, you're clueless. you can re-bore a standard honda block twice - [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > They were broken in properly... that's as logical as saying that because you've never found an elephant in your fridge, that elephants don't like butter. high mileage survival is not a function of your, er, "departure" from the service schedule - hondas and toyotas ROUTINELY get 300k+ miles on a motor, no re-bores. all that 240k proves is that [because of good production and engineering] it has survived in spite of your behavior, not because of it. >>>> Thinner walls means replacing the block rather than boring and honing. >>> dude, you're clueless. you can re-bore a standard honda block twice - [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > production and engineering] it has survived in spite of your behavior, not > because of it. <YAWN> Admit it, I'm right. Period. >>>>> Thinner walls means replacing the block rather than boring and honing. >>>> dude, you're clueless. you can re-bore a standard honda block twice - [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > <YAWN> Admit it, I'm right. Period. dude, you don't know what you don't know. and because of that, you're propagating bullshit. >>> high mileage survival is not a function of your, er, "departure" from >>> the service schedule - hondas and toyotas ROUTINELY get 300k+ miles on [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > dude, you don't know what you don't know. and because of that, you're > propagating bullshit. Bite me. I know plenty. I have 3 20 year old cars here that run like champs. Maintenance is a wonderful thing. I sure hope the OP left long before you started your spew. If he listens to you he'll probably be scrapping the car at 50,000 miles. I've seen people do the "Break it in like you're going to drive it" crap and have to do some pretty major repairs, not only to the engines, but to the transmissions, too. Oh, and I change my trans oil (Manual) every 60,000 miles, too. The manual says it's good for the life of the car. No thanks. Oh, hey, did I ever mention, one of the cars that went over 225,000 miles was an auto. The rest were 5 speeds, and ya know what? They did it on the original clutches. Never replaced a U-Joint, either, and I certainly don't drive them like Grandpa. I own fast cars cause I like to drive FAST. > I've seen people do the "Break it in like you're going to drive it" crap > and have to do some pretty major repairs, not only to the engines, but to > the transmissions, too. So what is your response when the Corvette engineers document that very behavior as the desired state? >> I've seen people do the "Break it in like you're going to drive it" crap >> and have to do some pretty major repairs, not only to the engines, but >> to the transmissions, too. > > So what is your response when the Corvette engineers document that very > behavior as the desired state? They told my friend that when he bought his new Camaro. He bought it three days after I bought my new Corolla. He traded the car after 3.5 years with all kinds of trouble. I kept my Corolla for 6 years and got a new Corolla. That was 22 years ago, and I still have the replacement, and it still runs, and it still doesn't burn any oil. What does it take to convince you Three Stooges? >>> I've seen people do the "Break it in like you're going to drive it" crap >>> and have to do some pretty major repairs, not only to the engines, but [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > What does it take to convince you Three Stooges? Real evidence, not anecdotes. The plural of anecdote is not data. Jeff >> They told my friend that when he bought his new Camaro. He bought it >> three days after I bought my new Corolla. He traded the car after 3.5 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Real evidence, not anecdotes. Come on over! We'll start up the 23 year old Corolla, and you can see for yourself. > Real evidence, not anecdotes. Usenet, as we know it, would cease to exist if real evidence were provided instead on anecdotal evidence. > The plural of anecdote is not data. I like that! >> Real evidence, not anecdotes. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I like that! Like I told Jeff, who just likes to argue to argue, come on over and we'll start the 23 year old Corolla. >>> Real evidence, not anecdotes. >> Usenet, as we know it, would cease to exist if real evidence were provided [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Like I told Jeff, who just likes to argue to argue, come on over and we'll > start the 23 year old Corolla. it's a corolla - starting a corolla with low mileage like that is totally unimpressive. >> Like I told Jeff, who just likes to argue to argue, come on over and >> we'll start the 23 year old Corolla. > > it's a corolla - starting a corolla with low mileage like that is totally > unimpressive. 260,000 miles is 'low mileage'? >>> I've seen people do the "Break it in like you're going to drive it" crap >>> and have to do some pretty major repairs, not only to the engines, but [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > days after I bought my new Corolla. He traded the car after 3.5 years with > all kinds of trouble. that's because it was a camaro, not a corolla! > I kept my Corolla for 6 years and got a new Corolla. > That was 22 years ago, and I still have the replacement, and it still > runs, and it still doesn't burn any oil. /in spite/ of your abuse! that's how good toyotas are! > What does it take to convince you Three Stooges? try not bullshitting. that convinces me real well. >> They told my friend that when he bought his new Camaro. He bought it >> three days after I bought my new Corolla. He traded the car after 3.5 >> years with all kinds of trouble. > > that's because it was a camaro, not a corolla! Bullshit. I saw about a dozen Camaros and a couple of Chevelles today. If you take care of a car, it will probably last. If you treat it like you appear to, I guess it'll fall apart. >> I kept my Corolla for 6 years and got a new Corolla. That was 22 years >> ago, and I still have the replacement, and it still runs, and it still >> doesn't burn any oil. > > /in spite/ of your abuse! that's how good toyotas are! Huh? Changing the oil is abuse? Pardon me, your ignorance is showing. But, that's nothing new. >> What does it take to convince you Three Stooges? > > try not bullshitting. that convinces me real well. Stop being an a.shole. What's bullshitting? I change my oil every 3,000? I do. I get high mileage out of my cars? I do. I have the original clutches in my cars? I do. I get better than EPA ratings for Highway in combined driving? I do. >>> They told my friend that when he bought his new Camaro. He bought it >>> three days after I bought my new Corolla. He traded the car after 3.5 [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > I have the original clutches in my cars? I do. > I get better than EPA ratings for Highway in combined driving? I do. Yet, none of this shows that changing oil too often makes a difference. Clearly, changing it often enough does, but more often than that is a waste of money and resources. Jeff >> What's bullshitting? I change my oil every 3,000? I do. I get high >> mileage out of my cars? I do. I have the original clutches in my cars? I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Clearly, changing it often enough does, but more often than that is a > waste of money and resources. So what? > Yet, none of this shows that changing oil too often makes a difference. > Clearly, changing it often enough does, but more often than that is a > waste of money and resources. Question: would the sludge-filled Toyota engines have benefited from 3K changes vs. 5K or 7.5K changes? The fact is, the carmakers put out products of sometimes questionable quality. The Toyota sludging engines are an example. We, the consumers, won't know this until it's too late. 3K changes are insurance against that. >> Yet, none of this shows that changing oil too often makes a difference. >> Clearly, changing it often enough does, but more often than that is a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > 3K changes are insurance against that. the /correct/ insurance against that is opening the oil filler cap and looking inside once in a while. you should do that anyway when checking for fluid levels, leaks, etc., as with many cars, it's where you'll see first signs of head gasket leakage. >> Yet, none of this shows that changing oil too often makes a difference. >> Clearly, changing it often enough does, but more often than that is a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > 3K changes are insurance against that. No they're not. Well they are, but so are 5000 mile changes. The sludging was from owners following the 7500 mile interval. > > Question: would the sludge-filled Toyota engines have benefited from 3K > > changes vs. 5K or 7.5K changes? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > No they're not. Well they are, but so are 5000 mile changes. The > sludging was from owners following the 7500 mile interval. Well, my point is that the sludging occurred when following the factory recommended interval. Then it came out: y'all weren't changing your oil often enough. Then it all came out: Toyota screwed up in the design of that engine. If we can't trust the factory engineer recommendations from Toyota, then it's in our own hands to determine what a comfortable interval would be to try to eliminate such problems. >Well, my point is that the sludging occurred when following the factory > recommended interval. Then it came out: y'all weren't changing your >oil often enough. Then it all came out: Toyota screwed up in the > design of that engine. That kinda fuks up your "trust the manual" philosophy that you give such a hard time to others about. > If we can't trust the factory engineer recommendations from Toyota, then > it's in our own hands to determine what a comfortable interval would be > to try to eliminate such problems. And with that said, you should never say another goddamn word when someone questions a Honda "Maintenance Minder" schedule. Peace, Polfus > >Well, my point is that the sludging occurred when following the factory > > recommended interval. Then it came out: y'all weren't changing your [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > That kinda fuks up your "trust the manual" philosophy that you give such a > hard time to others about. Yup. It does. It comes down to: do you trust the car company? It's been shown that we can't even trust Toyota. WTF. > > If we can't trust the factory engineer recommendations from Toyota, then > > it's in our own hands to determine what a comfortable interval would be > > to try to eliminate such problems. > > And with that said, you should never say another goddamn word when someone > questions a Honda "Maintenance Minder" schedule. temper, temper. So you're of a mind to do it on your own schedule, then, regardless? No one else can recommend a schedule for you if you want to do it on your own. >>> Well, my point is that the sludging occurred when following the factory >>> recommended interval. Then it came out: y'all weren't changing your [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > It's been shown that we can't even trust Toyota. that's not strictly true. it's the manual "as revised". each time a tsb is issued, it's what's in the tsb that prevails. just like a service pack or software update for your computer. > WTF. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > No one else can recommend a schedule for you if you want to do it on > your own. if you don't want to follow the manual's service schedule, do oil analysis. all this blind gut stuff is utterly retarded. so is never checking the simple stuff that can be easily checked come to that, and looking inside the rocker cover is hardly difficult to do. as for toyota sludging, it wasn't /every/ toyota that did it, just a very small subset of users that would literally drive around the block, then stop. repeatedly. if the oil never reached operating temperature but was constantly loaded with condensates, i'm sure pretty much any car would be susceptible. and you then have to ask, to what degree does the engineer have to anticipate statistical outliers? >> So you're of a mind to do it on your own schedule, then, regardless? >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > if you don't want to follow the manual's service schedule, do oil > analysis. all this blind gut stuff is utterly retarded. WHY THE f.ck would I pay for an 'oil analysis' that costs more than CHANGING THE FRIGGING OIL?!?!?! Dude, you make less sense as you go along! >>> So you're of a mind to do it on your own schedule, then, regardless? >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > WHY THE f.ck would I pay for an 'oil analysis' that costs more than > CHANGING THE FRIGGING OIL?!?!?! Dude....you got that right. > Dude, you make less sense as you go along! Heh...no sh.t. Peace, Polfus >>>> So you're of a mind to do it on your own schedule, then, regardless? >>>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Heh...no sh.t. ever heard the expression, "ignorance is temporary, stupid is for ever"? here's how it works: you use oil analysis to determine the oil change interval for your regular driving pattern. if analysis determines that you can extend your change interval to 12k miles, for instance, you get to save money on your previous change history. math [and saving money] doesn't get much simpler. > ever heard the expression, "ignorance is temporary, stupid is for ever"? ever heard the expression, "you're an a.shole"? > here's how it works: you use oil analysis to determine the oil change > interval for your regular driving pattern. if analysis determines that > you can extend your change interval to 12k miles, for instance, you get to > save money on your previous change history. Re-read what you ignored about this point. > math [and saving money] doesn't get much simpler. I tell you what...*you* change your oil every 12,000 miles and enjoy yourself. Good luck with that. Polfus >> ever heard the expression, "ignorance is temporary, stupid is for ever"? > > ever heard the expression, "you're an a.shole"? ROFLMAO... >>>> if you don't want to follow the manual's service schedule, do oil >>>> analysis. all this blind gut stuff is utterly retarded. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > math [and saving money] doesn't get much simpler. Thanks, but I like to /drive/ my cars. This means, I buy cars with some pep and are fun to drive, and I drive them that way, and I don't want my cars (like the VW I had that had oil pressure problems after being driven to MAss from NJ by Who Knows Who) to spend a lot of time on the lift at the dealer. My oil analysis is this: at 3,000 miles I take a look at it. If it's black, it goes. >>>>> if you don't want to follow the manual's service schedule, do oil >>>>> analysis. all this blind gut stuff is utterly retarded. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > the dealer. My oil analysis is this: at 3,000 miles I take a look at it. > If it's black, it goes. ignorance is nothing to proud of. >>>>>> if you don't want to follow the manual's service schedule, do oil >>>>>> analysis. all this blind gut stuff is utterly retarded. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> > ignorance is nothing to proud of. You're absolutely correct! So start changing your oil at 7,500 like th MFG reccomends! >> >Well, my point is that the sludging occurred when following the factory >> > recommended interval. Then it came out: y'all weren't changing your [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > It's been shown that we can't even trust Toyota. WTF. Why? My Supra is notorious for blowing head gaskets. So, you remove the bolts, replace the gasket and retorque the new bolts to the revised spec. Not a problem. >> That kinda fuks up your "trust the manual" philosophy that you give such >> a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > It's been shown that we can't even trust Toyota. WTF. Exactly..its sad, but I really expect no different...its only a damn car company, fer krist's sake. >> And with that said, you should never say another goddamn word when >> someone >> questions a Honda "Maintenance Minder" schedule. > > temper, temper. I aint mad at all...I just think its time *you* chilled out with the whole manual thing when someone asks a question or wants to get a discussion going. > So you're of a mind to do it on your own schedule, then, regardless? Are you asking me or telling me what you think I'm gonna do? Dude...I will change my Honda's oil when the maintenance minder says so, or about every 5000k...whichever comes first and whatever I feel like doing at the time. If the MM comes on, I'll change it for sure, and soon too. If it doesn't, and 6000k is rolling around, then I will most likely change the oil myself "early". It couldn't be any easier, or more simple. And I have *no* plans on keeping my '08 Accord for more than 10 years *MAX*. I'm not a kid and will most certainly purchase another car before I have to worry about getting 200,000 miles on mine. > No one else can recommend a schedule for you if you want to do it on > your own. Well..you can clearly see that the info given to us consumers may not always be correct. Therein lies the very reason for the "MM" questions folks have. Do you understand now? Peace, Polfus > And I have *no* plans on keeping my '08 Accord for more than 10 years > *MAX*. > > I'm not a kid and will most certainly purchase another car before I have > to worry about getting 200,000 miles on mine. I used to get a new car every two-three years, not entirely by choice! In 1980 I bought a Corolla SR5 Coupe. I liked it and kept it 6 years and 244,000 miles. It's replacement was the 'hachiroku' (1985 Corolla GTS hatch) Magnificent car. Still in my backyard with 259,000 waiting for the rust work to get done. I have an '05 Scion tC coupe I bought in '06, and I like that car too. Add to that an '88 Supra with ~200,000 miles I picked up for $600 4 years ago, an '89 Mazda 626 in mint condition for $150, and an '89 Subaru Coupe for winter driving. And I change the oil on all of them at 3,000 miles! The Scion gets ~7,000 miles a year, the Supra ~10,000, the Mazda ~12,000 and the Subaru ~6,000. I change the oil on the Supra and the Subaru when they get parked for the season, then I drain that and put in fresh oil when they come back into service. The Scion gets synthetic every 4,500. All in all, cheap insurance. I wish I knew what moonbeam has against changing oil. >> And I have *no* plans on keeping my '08 Accord for more than 10 years >> *MAX*. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > All in all, cheap insurance. I wish I knew what moonbeam has against > changing oil. 3.5 quarts at $3.00 each = $10.50 1 filter = $4.00 call it $15.00 with drain plug washer. oil analysis costs $22.50 [blackstone]. 4 changes at 3000 miles each = $60.00 1 change at 12000 + 1 analysis = $37.50 what? you don't work for nasa??? > 3.5 quarts at $3.00 each = $10.50 > 1 filter = $4.00 > call it $15.00 with drain plug washer. > oil analysis costs $22.50 [blackstone]. Plus $5.00 S&H. Corrected: > 4 changes at 3000 miles each = $60.00 Corrected: 2 changes at 6,000 miles each, and filter changes every other oil change, and drain plugs = $26.00 > 1 change at 12000 + 1 analysis = $42.50 I'm still at $26.00. > what? you don't work for nasa??? Do *YOU* change your oil every 12,000 miles? If so, then knock yourself out. Polfus >> 3.5 quarts at $3.00 each = $10.50 >> 1 filter = $4.00 [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > 2 changes at 6,000 miles each, and filter changes every other oil > change, filter every other time? that's not clever. > and drain plugs = $26.00 you're either dishonest or delusional. you've stated many times how you do your changes yourself every 3k, 4.5k for synthetic. now here you are suddenly at 6k. >> 1 change at 12000 + 1 analysis = $42.50 > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Do *YOU* change your oil every 12,000 miles? actually, based on my usage, i go 12k. > If so, then knock yourself out. i'd much rather introduce you to reality. for a 6k change interval, over 24k we can still say: 4 x $15 = $60 for the blind faith approach. vs. 2 x $15 = $30 + 1 analysis $27.50 [only needs to be done every 30-50k] that's $57.50. analysis still saves you money. over 48k we have 8 x $15 = $120 blind faith. vs. 4 x $15 = $60 + 2 x analysis = $55 that's $115 saving money /and/ knowing the health of your engine. seems like a real easy decision to make to me. > > and drain plugs = $26.00 > > you're either dishonest or delusional. you've stated many times how you > do your changes yourself every 3k, 4.5k for synthetic. now here you are > suddenly at 6k. That was *ME*, Nimrod. >>> 1 change at 12000 + 1 analysis = $42.50 >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > actually, based on my usage, i go 12k. TWELVE THOUSAND MILES?!?!?!?! And you have the balls to lecture *ME* on 'proper oil changes'? I am pretty sure the manual indicates something much less than 12,000 miles!!! And, all the people that came in with sludged Camry and Sienna engines? Guess how often they changed their oil? Gee, it was 12,000 miles (or more)! And the manual said 7,500. Luckily for them, Toyota footed the bill for their negligence. People who followed the maintenance schedule had minimal (accetable) sludge levels, and the ones smart enough to change every 3,000 miles had no build-up at all. Honda's Owner's Manula for a 2001 Accord says: Replace Engine Oil Replace every 7,500 miles (12,000 km) or 12 months. >>>> 1 change at 12000 + 1 analysis = $42.50 >>> I'm still at $26.00. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > more)! And the manual said 7,500. Luckily for them, Toyota footed the bill > for their negligence. what am i talking about? do you NEVER read? "analysis" is the name of the game. > People who followed the maintenance schedule had minimal (accetable) > sludge levels, and the ones smart enough to change every 3,000 miles had [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Replace Engine Oil Replace every 7,500 miles (12,000 km) or 12 > months. spend a little money on knowing what you're talking about. >>>>> 1 change at 12000 + 1 analysis = $42.50 >>>> I'm still at $26.00. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > what am i talking about? do you NEVER read? "analysis" is the name of > the game. We're talking about people who don't do frequent enough oil changes. Looks like you're in that club. These were the people that came into the Service Dep't with sludged engines. Why? They didn't follow the Manufacturer's recommendation. The manual for a Camry and a Sienna said 7,500. They didn't so it and got sludged engines. People who did <7,500 rarely had sludge. Who gives a f.ck about oil analysis if you're exceeding the MFG'd recommendation? >> People who followed the maintenance schedule had minimal (accetable) >> sludge levels, and the ones smart enough to change every 3,000 miles had [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > spend a little money on knowing what you're talking about. Spend a little money and change your friggin' oil! Also, tell me where you are so I know not to buy a car from you. >>>>>> 1 change at 12000 + 1 analysis = $42.50 >>>>> I'm still at $26.00. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > sludge. Who gives a f.ck about oil analysis if you're exceeding the MFG'd > recommendation? er, it's analysis that /determines/ the manufacturer's recommendation. once the analysis is done, they do the stats on covering the maximum reasonable user base, then set a change interval. a few may need to change it sooner. but the majority can last longer. if you do the analysis, you'll know just /how much/ longer. >>> People who followed the maintenance schedule had minimal (accetable) >>> sludge levels, and the ones smart enough to change every 3,000 miles had [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Also, tell me where you are so I know not to buy a car from you. >>>>>>> 1 change at 12000 + 1 analysis = $42.50 >>>>>> I'm still at $26.00. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > change it sooner. but the majority can last longer. if you do the > analysis, you'll know just /how much/ longer. Tell that to all the people that came in with sludged Toyota engines. They didn't follow the MFG's reccomendation. Some of the ones that did had minimal sludging, but most of them were using sh.t oil. The ones that changed the oil every 3,000 miles had no sludge. >>>> People who followed the maintenance schedule had minimal (accetable) >>>> sludge levels, and the ones smart enough to change every 3,000 miles [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >> Also, tell me where you are so I know not to buy a car from you. > Tell that to all the people that came in with sludged Toyota engines. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > The ones that changed the oil every 3,000 miles had no sludge. Well...that pretty much says it all. Peace, Polfus >> 2 changes at 6,000 miles each, and filter changes every other oil change, > > filter every other time? that's not clever. The Honda engineers don't suggest a filter change every oil change. So why do you all of a sudden, given your blind following of their "guidelines"? > > and drain plugs = $26.00 > > you're either dishonest or delusional. Or you're crazy as hell. > you've stated many times how you do your changes yourself every 3k, 4.5k > for synthetic. now here you are suddenly at 6k. You have lost your damn mind because I never said that at all. >> Do *YOU* change your oil every 12,000 miles? > > actually, based on my usage, i go 12k. Awesome....good luck with that. And now I wonder why you get so pissy with everyone when they question the oil change intervals recommended ( or actually not recommended by since its buried in the "maintenance Minder" ). If you don't even follow the Honda guidelines, then you should shut your damn piehole the next time you feel the need to foam at the a.s when someone (like me!) does it differently. Read that again, rinse, and repeat over and over until you get it, son. > i'd much rather introduce you to reality. This should be interesting coming from you....carry on... > for a 6k change interval, over 24k we can still say: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > that's $57.50. analysis still saves you money. $2.50 in savings. Wow...maybe I'll get a 2L Pepsi and a sandwich with all that money. > over 48k we have > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > that's $115 saving money / No...reality says that your scenario saves a whopping $5.00 over the course of 48K miles. And doing so on a vehicle that can cost over $30,000 dollars, doing dino oil changes every 12k miles. > and/ knowing the health of your engine. No, thats not exactly true...oil analysis is by no means a complete engine diagnostic tool. If you think so, then knock yourself out. > seems like a real easy decision to make to me. Yeah....it is, actually. Polfus |
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