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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / May 2008Camry Hybrid prices
Hello all, I am very interested in buying a new (2008 or 2009) Camry Hybrid. Unfortunately, due to rising gas prices, it seems that everyone else is getting the same idea. I am curious, given the apparent recent spike in demand for these, what kind of deal those of you who have purchased one recently managed to get. Specifically, given the MSRP for your car, how much did you manage to get your dealer to come down from MSRP? I am in Arkansas and I suppose the market may be somewhat different for my area than in other parts of the country, but I am trying to get a feel for what kind of bargaining range I might expect when negotiating. I've gotten the Consumer Reports lowdown on the invoice pricing on these (which I am surprised differs very little if at all from the free reports available at www.kbb.com). The CR report recommends starting bargaining around 4-8% over invoice but I'm afraid with demand for these I may not have much luck with that. Any helpful tidbits (or personal experiences gathered in the past few months) regarding buying one of these beasts is greatly appreciated. Thanks. Bruce I would start by comparing the "total drive home price" of a similarly equipped 4cy Camry and the hybrid. I believe you will discover the difference in the drive home price will be enough to buy ALL of the gas to run the 4cy Camry for around four years!! > Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Bruce > I would start by comparing the "total drive home price" of a similarly > equipped 4cy Camry and the hybrid. I believe you will discover the > difference in the drive home price will be enough to buy ALL of the gas to > run the 4cy Camry for around four years!! The total drive home price difference will almost certainly be higher than the retail price difference, because of the increased demand for small cars. However, based on what you have written here, what you believe is worthless. Jeff >> Hello all, >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> >> Bruce Duh, confused again we see. Neither is a small car, both the conventionally power Camry and the hybrid Camry are mid-sized cars. One has a rebate, the other does not. Guess which one is not being discounted? However, based on what you have written here, what you believe is worthless. LOL >> I would start by comparing the "total drive home price" of a similarly >> equipped 4cy Camry and the hybrid. I believe you will discover the [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >>> >>> Bruce > Duh, confused again we see. I know you are. But, as you get older, that happens. > Neither is a small car, both the conventionally > power Camry and the hybrid Camry are mid-sized cars. One has a rebate, the > other does not. Guess which one is not being discounted? I was using the adjective "small" in the common sense, not with the strict EPA definition. Sorry that you are confused again by the English language. Jeff > However, based on what you have written here, what you believe is worthless. > LOL [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >>>> >>>> Bruce > I would start by comparing the "total drive home price" of a similarly > equipped 4cy Camry and the hybrid. I believe you will discover the > difference in the drive home price will be enough to buy ALL of the gas to > run the 4cy Camry for around four years!! If it's only four years to hit that break-even point, that's great news to me. Actually I suspect the payoff will take five to six years but I generally have kept cars for ten years or more. Add to all of this the bonus of lower emissions and it makes the hybrid a very attractive option. At this point I'm more concerned about what that 'drive home price' might be. Bruce Since the difference in the "total drive home price" of a similarly equipped 4cy Camry and a hybrid Camry is well over $4,000 what I said was: "I believe you will discover the difference in the "total drive home price" will be enough to BUY ALL OF THE GAS to run the 4cy Camry for around four years." I made no reference to the difference in the fuel economy between the two. If one looks at the difference, you are correct, it will take longer to make up the acquisition cost difference, in fuel mileage. Particularly is one is financing the extra cost. Even that however is problematic since the hybrid will need $5,000 worth the batteries at some point in the future. Another problem for hybrid owners is the $15 difference in the shop rate price charged by some Toyota dealerships . >> I would start by comparing the "total drive home pri ce" of a similarly >> equipped 4cy Camry and the hybrid. I believe you will discover the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Bruce > Since the difference in the "total drive home price" of a similarly > equipped 4cy Camry and a hybrid Camry is well over $4,000 what I said was: [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >> >> Bruce The greenie LIEbrawl DEMONrats here are blinded by NEW technology, no matter how expensive, unproven or impractical it is. > > Since the difference in the "total drive home price" of a similarly > > equipped 4cy Camry and a hybrid Camry is well over $4,000 what I said was: [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > The greenie LIEbrawl DEMONrats here are blinded by NEW technology, no matter > how expensive, unproven or impractical it is. The technology is like computers, about 2 years. The hybrid will be hard to resell in a couple years, that means low resale value. Sorry folks it's a throw away. I wouldn't buy a used hybrid, would you? -- >> > Since the difference in the "total drive home price" of a similarly >> > equipped 4cy Camry and a hybrid Camry is well over $4,000 what I said [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > hard to resell in a couple years, that means low resale value. Sorry > folks it's a throw away. So far, the opposite is true. If you don't believe me, look up the prices for used Priuses - even '04's (which sold for ~$20K when new). Minimal depreciation. Cathy > I wouldn't buy a used hybrid, would you? > >> > Since the difference in the "total drive home price" of a similarly > >> > equipped 4cy Camry and a hybrid Camry is well over $4,000 what I said [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > Cathy I'm happy for them. They have yet to replace the batteries? That is if they are still available. -- >> >> > Since the difference in the "total drive home price" of a similarly >> >> > equipped 4cy Camry and a hybrid Camry is well over $4,000 what I [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > I'm happy for them. They have yet to replace the batteries? That is if > they are still available. You're already groping/floundering for some sort of rebuttal; it's not working. Cathy >>> >> > Since the difference in the "total drive home price" of a similarly >>> >> > equipped 4cy Camry and a hybrid Camry is well over $4,000 what I [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > > Cathy Cathy is right. The hybrid resale is faring much better than the gas-only cars of similar value by a considerable amount according to Kelly Blue Book. If gas prices continue to rise, it will only get better. Battery is a non-issue as it is a free replacement on mine for 8 years. I won't own it by then (I never keep a car more than 8 years anyway) and have moved on to another new model so I won't care about the car then. Probably just trade it in. B~ > >>> >> > Since the difference in the "total drive home price" of a similarly > >>> >> > equipped 4cy Camry and a hybrid Camry is well over $4,000 what I [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > > B~ But what about the next person to own it. In my mind it's still a throw away. First owner fine, second owner, nope. Resale, zilch. What-ever. -- >>>> >> > Since the difference in the "total drive home price" of a >>>> >> > similarly [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] > > B~ Listen up. I could go into any dealership and slap down CASH for any small or mid-sized vehicle available and GUARANTEED Hell would f.cking freeze over before shelled out one f.cking cent for a vehicle with hybrid technology. NOT ONE f.cking CENT, you fuckning naive, stupid braindead LIEbrawl greenies. > >> >> > Since the difference in the "total drive home price" of a similarly > >> >> > equipped 4cy Camry and a hybrid Camry is well over $4,000 what I [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > > Cathy I'm not groping for anything. The fact is would I want to buy a used hybrid at this time or anytime in the near future, no. I'm not saying you should not buy a new one, but don't expect to get a real good trade-in for one down the line. The used markets fo hybrid are still not proven as are the gas Corollas for example. We shall see as time goes on. I hope I'm wrong. Good luck. -- "dbu" <nospam@nospam.moc> wrote in message news:nospam->> >> You're already groping/floundering for some sort of rebuttal; it's not >> working. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > not proven as are the gas Corollas for example. We shall see as time > goes on. I hope I'm wrong. Good luck. You are so full of hot air...or other stuff. Check out a representative sampling of used Corollas and used hybrids in your area or anywhere else lately? No, I didn't think so. You're flat out wrong. Not that I really care because I don't care for the looks of the Prius, and that's why I wouldn't buy one. YMMV. > "dbu" <nospam@nospam.moc> wrote in message news:nospam->> > >> You're already groping/floundering for some sort of rebuttal; it's not [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Not that I really care because I don't care for the looks of the Prius, and > that's why I wouldn't buy one. YMMV. God, I can't believe how you libs live for the moment. What is the price of your used prius going to be in a year from now or two years, three years. Would I buy a used one after three or even two years, hell no. -- >> "dbu" <nospam@nospam.moc> wrote in message news:nospam->> >> >> You're already groping/floundering for some sort of rebuttal; it's not [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > three years. Would I buy a used one after three or even two years, hell > no. Reality check, dbu. Go back to my other post: an '04 Prius, whose MSRP was about $20K, now sells for only a few grand less. Depreciation is considerably less than for other cars. Example from Edmonds: http://www.edmunds.com/toyota/prius/2004/index.html Cathy >>> "dbu" <nospam@nospam.moc> wrote in message news:nospam->> >>> >> You're already groping/floundering for some sort of rebuttal; it's [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > was about $20K, now sells for only a few grand less. Depreciation is > considerably less than for other cars. As long as their are naive, braindead LIEbrawls like yourself, with more money than brains. f.cking braindead c.nt. > Example from Edmonds: > http://www.edmunds.com/toyota/prius/2004/index.html > > Cathy >>> >> > Since the difference in the "total drive home price" of a similarly >>> >> > equipped 4cy Camry and a hybrid Camry is well over $4,000 what I [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > > Cathy It IS working. Only braindead LIEbrawl DEMONrat c.nts or their p'whipped mates would throw away their money on unproven technology. SUCKERS with a capital S. But, hey LIEbrawl DEMONrats have always being suckered. If you knew anything at all about hybrid batteries it is that they never have to be replaced as a unit. One cell may die and you replace that cell. Of course as of the last time I read, Toyota and Honda both said that there had been virtually NO hybrid battery failures so they couldn't tell you how long they would last since so far it looks like forever. >> >> > Since the difference in the "total drive home price" of a similarly >> >> > equipped 4cy Camry and a hybrid Camry is well over $4,000 what I [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > I'm happy for them. They have yet to replace the batteries? That is if > they are still available. A battery that will last forever? What color is the sky in YOUR world? LOL > If you knew anything at all about hybrid batteries it is that they never > have to be replaced as a unit. One cell may die and you replace that > cell. Of course as of the last time I read, Toyota and Honda both said > that there had been virtually NO hybrid battery failures so they couldn't > tell you how long they would last since so far it looks like forever. > A battery that will last forever? What color is the sky in YOUR world? > LOL [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> that there had been virtually NO hybrid battery failures so they couldn't >> tell you how long they would last since so far it looks like forever. And what evidence do you have that there have been problems with the batteries in hybrid cars? Jeff >> A battery that will last forever? What color is the sky in YOUR world? >> LOL [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Jeff Fine, you WASTE YOUR money on one. I, for one, will NOT jump on the greenie LIEbrawl bandwagon and pay over retail for the politically correct car of the year. >>> A battery that will last forever? What color is the sky in YOUR world? >>> LOL [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > greenie LIEbrawl bandwagon and pay over retail for the politically correct > car of the year. Just for curiosity's sake, what kind of a beater do you drive, fruitcake? >>>> A battery that will last forever? What color is the sky in YOUR >>>> world? LOL [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Just for curiosity's sake, what kind of a beater do you drive, fruitcake? 99 Camry 6 cyl., fruitcake. >> A battery that will last forever? What color is the sky in YOUR world? >> LOL [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Jeff I could be wrong about this but I seem to remember that Toyota's hybrid uses Li-ion batteries. Lithium-ion batteries have a high power-to-weight ratio but they loose almost 20% capacity per year. So, used under normal automotive conditions, they will last less than 5 years. If they are using some other chemistry, then the battery life is dependant on the number of charge/discharge cycles. Nickel/Metal-Hydride will only last for about 500 to 1000 partial cycles, fewer if subjected to full discharge. So if the vehicle is used an average of 5 days a week, the batteries should last about 3 to 5 years. As for your statement that there have been "virtually NO hybrid battery failures", are you sure? What do they consider a failure? If the battery had a reduced capacity, is that considered a failure? At what point do they replace a cell and is the battery construction so that individual cells can be replaced? Also, with what I've read about Toyota's battery management, are you sure that you would know when you have a battery plant with reduced capacity? Also, batteries are NOT maintained by replacing just one or two cells at a time. The cells of a battery are all subjected to the same conditions of charge, charge rate and temperature so they age at about the same rate. Replacing a weak or bad cell with a new one means that you have one full-capacity cell coupled with reduced capacity cells. The weaker cells will be ruined by the stronger cell causing deeper discharge of the weaker cells as well as causing the weaker ones to be overcharged. If you have one or more bad cells in a battery, then the entire battery needs to be replaced. > I could be wrong about this but I seem to remember that Toyota's > hybrid uses Li-ion batteries. Lithium-ion batteries have a high > power-to-weight ratio but they loose almost 20% capacity per year. So, > used under normal automotive conditions, they will last less than 5 > years. You could be wrong and you are. They use NiMH batteries. The next generation Prius will also use NiMH, and the reason is because of capacity loss of Li-Ion that you point out. There were rumors of Li-Ion in the next generation, but they didn't pan out. > If they are using some other chemistry, then the battery life is > dependant on the number of charge/discharge cycles. > Nickel/Metal-Hydride will only last for about 500 to 1000 partial > cycles, fewer if subjected to full discharge. The Prius discharges the battery only to about 60%, and charges it only to about 80%. In EV mode, you can go down to 45% before the gasoline engine will start, but EV mode isn't available in the U.S. (though many people have installed the EV button, see "http://www.eaa-phev.org/wiki/Prius_EV_Mode_Button"). Toyota has designed the battery system to maximize battery life. You're only using 20% of the actual battery capacity (in the U.S.) and 35% in other regions (in EV mode). Of course for longer trips, the difference is lost in the noise, as the engine is always running anyway. On shorter trips, using more of the capacity would result in longer operating time on the electric motor, though some of the additional MPG would be lost because the engine would end up running longer to charge the battery back from 45% to 80%, versus from 60% to 80%. If you could add plug-in capability to the existing battery, and do 80% to 45%, you'd be able to be all-electric on very short trips. I think in EV mode, you can go about 1 mile in electric mode, something not possible in non-EV mode. There's a mistaken belief that the Prius goes many miles on battery power prior to the engine coming on to power the electric motor, and recharge the battery. In reality, the battery rarely is the power source for the motor. Even if they allowed 100% of the battery capacity to be used, it would result in a very small increase in MPG. > As for your statement that there have been "virtually NO hybrid > battery failures", are you sure? What do they consider a failure? If > the battery had a reduced capacity, is that considered a failure? I suspect that the battery controller is such that over time, as the battery ages, they allow more than the mid 20% of the capacity to be used (i.e. allow lower discharge level and higher charge level in order to keep the usable capacity the same). >I could be wrong about this but I seem to remember that Toyota's >hybrid uses Li-ion batteries. Lithium-ion batteries have a high >power-to-weight ratio but they loose almost 20% capacity per year. So, >used under normal automotive conditions, they will last less than 5 >years. At 20% loss per year at the end of 5 years they still have 32.7% of the original capacity. >If they are using some other chemistry, then the battery life is >dependant on the number of charge/discharge cycles. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >overcharged. If you have one or more bad cells in a battery, then the >entire battery needs to be replaced. >>I could be wrong about this but I seem to remember that Toyota's >>hybrid uses Li-ion batteries. Lithium-ion batteries have a high [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >At 20% loss per year at the end of 5 years they still have 32.7% of >the original capacity. Yes but once they are down to about 50% of their original capacity, they will need to be replaced. >>If they are using some other chemistry, then the battery life is >>dependant on the number of charge/discharge cycles. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >>overcharged. If you have one or more bad cells in a battery, then the >>entire battery needs to be replaced. > >At 20% loss per year at the end of 5 years they still have 32.7% of > >the original capacity. > > > Yes but once they are down to about 50% of their original capacity, > they will need to be replaced. Can you quote a source for this information? Ah, I thought not. Go away, old man, and take your misinformation with you. >> >At 20% loss per year at the end of 5 years they still have 32.7% of >> >the original capacity. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Go away, old man, and take your misinformation with you. BSP for stationary battery plants. Exide standards for low-maintenance battery plants. Sometimes old folks know a little more than you smart-assed kids. > >> Yes but once they are down to about 50% of their original capacity, > >> they will need to be replaced. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Sometimes old folks know a little more than you smart-assed kids. But this isn't one of those times. You still haven't quoted a source for your claim. >>> >At 20% loss per year at the end of 5 years they still have 32.7% of >>> >the original capacity. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >BSP for stationary battery plants. That stands for Bell System Practices for those of you who have never seen the acronym. I'm used to GSP (which would now be VSP) but it's the same thing - the "instruction book" for all the gear found in a telephone switchroom. Thirty to Fifty shelf-feet of 3-ring binders, or several four-drawer file cabinets. >Exide standards for low-maintenance battery plants. > >Sometimes old folks know a little more than you smart-assed kids. No, you don't. Because you are comparing Apples and Oranges, and a valid comparison can not be made. (And there are other older almost-farts here too, so watch it with the blanket accusations.) Telephone Plant stationary wet batteries are Lead-Calcium-Acid tank cells, or Lead-Calcium Absorbed Glass Mat "low maintenance" cells in smaller plants found at Cell sites, mountaintop microwave and repeater sites, and the like. They are normally left on float charge, but when the power fails and the generator won't start they get deep discharged till someone can get up the mountain and get the power back on. I"ve changed those wet batteries. And the capacity loss isn't anywhere near 20% per year, we had strings in service an average of 20 years before replacement, and by then (using your figure) they would have been down to like 5%... The only thing that would cause them to lose that much capacity per year would be several deep discharge occurrences on that string per year. And you always SG-test and load-test the string after abuse like that to see if they need to be changed out. Deep discharges won't happen at an attended and/or readily accessible urban switchroom, someone can get there inside of a half-hour and either get the Diesel generator started, reset the Main Breaker or get the Power Utility to fix the feed. But at microwave huts and mountaintop sites it does tend to take several hours to get someone up there and restore utility power, especially if they are snowed in. The batteries in the Prius are Nickel Metal Hydride cells, and that's a whole different animal. And the charge controller in the Prius computer keeps the batteries in a narrow band between 60% and 80% charged (and never deep-cycled) for optimum service life. You can't deep discharge a Prius HV battery pack without setting off every alarm light and buzzer in the car - Run it out of gasoline and try limping it to a gas station in EV Mode and the car protests that treatment /very/ loudly. There are talks of the Prius going to Lithium Ion batteries next. --<< Bruce >>-- >>>> >At 20% loss per year at the end of 5 years they still have 32.7% of >>>> >the original capacity. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >a telephone switchroom. Thirty to Fifty shelf-feet of 3-ring binders, >or several four-drawer file cabinets. Thanks for pointing out what I should have spelled out. >>Exide standards for low-maintenance battery plants. >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >the power fails and the generator won't start they get deep discharged >till someone can get up the mountain and get the power back on. Not anymore. They are, or already have been in most places, replaced by either depleted electrolytic cells or the newer recombinant low maintenance cells. This is due to federal laws regarding hazardous chemicals and annual permits required for flooded cell plants (big plastic jars full of sulfuric acid) and precautions mandated by the Feds regarding dams around the plant and drains into underground holding tanks to keep the acid out of the environment if it leaks out. > I"ve changed those wet batteries. And the capacity loss isn't >anywhere near 20% per year, we had strings in service an average of 20 >years before replacement, and by then (using your figure) they would >have been down to like 5%... Now who is comparing apples to oranges. I never said lead-acid cells loose 20% annually. Go back and read what I typed. In fact, I never mentioned lead-acid battery plants. > The only thing that would cause them to lose that much capacity per >year would be several deep discharge occurrences on that string per [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >someone up there and restore utility power, especially if they are >snowed in. Again, you honestly and truly don't know what you're talking about. I could name 4 or 5 scenario that would cause such a failure at what you would call a "manned site". In fact I was instrumental in restoring a junction site that lost AC power, Control center didn't notice, Gen set was overloaded and wouldn't take load. They dispatched me 5 hours after the AC failure and I was 3 hours away. I got there 10 minutes after the site went down. It took me about 1 minute to reduce the load, reset the Gen set and get the site back up. Weather conditions, even here in Ohio, can make it impossible to get to a site or for the utility to restore power for days on end. > The batteries in the Prius are Nickel Metal Hydride cells, and >that's a whole different animal. And the charge controller in the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >try limping it to a gas station in EV Mode and the car protests that >treatment /very/ loudly. Interesting! Who mentioned deep discharge of the Prius battery pack? > There are talks of the Prius going to Lithium Ion batteries next. > > --<< Bruce >>-- Bruce, get your act together and don't jump down someone's throat until you have read and UNDERSTAND everything he said. A reduction of 50% capacity is a reduction of 50% capacity regardless of the cell's chemical composition. Once the plant has lost about 50% of it's initial capacity, it will have to be replaced because it can no longer supply the needed power. The only question is how long it will take the plant to reach that point. Jack >>> > Since the difference in the "total drive home price" of a similarly >>> > equipped 4cy Camry and a hybrid Camry is well over $4,000 what I said [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > Cathy That's only because there a LOT of braindead LIEbrawl DEMONrats around, with more money than brains. >> I wouldn't buy a used hybrid, would you? >>> Since the difference in the "total drive home price" of a similarly >>> equipped 4cy Camry and a hybrid Camry is well over $4,000 what I said was: [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > I wouldn't buy a used hybrid, would you? I would. There is no evidence that there are major problems with the batteries, hybrid system or engines. Jeff >>>> Since the difference in the "total drive home price" of a similarly >>>> equipped 4cy Camry and a hybrid Camry is well over $4,000 what I said [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Jeff Typical f.cking naive LIEbrawl. Take off your f.cking blinders. Hybrid technology is NOT proven. You WILL be paying big, big repair bills. >>>>> Since the difference in the "total drive home price" of a similarly >>>>> equipped 4cy Camry and a hybrid Camry is well over $4,000 what I said [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > Typical f.cking naive LIEbrawl. Take off your f.cking blinders. Hybrid > technology is NOT proven. You WILL be paying big, big repair bills. and you know this HOW? By reading tarot cards ? citations, please. >>>>>> Since the difference in the "total drive home price" of a similarly >>>>>> equipped 4cy Camry and a hybrid Camry is well over $4,000 what I said [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > and you know this HOW? By reading tarot cards ? > citations, please. Typical f.cking idiot NAIVE LIEbrawl sap--believing what the manufacturers tell him. How do YOU know SO WELL that CURRENT hybrid technology will stand up long enough to see a REAL payoff in energy savings? >>>>>>> Since the difference in the "total drive home price" of a similarly >>>>>>> equipped 4cy Camry and a hybrid Camry is well over $4,000 what I [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > tell him. How do YOU know SO WELL that CURRENT hybrid technology will > stand up long enough to see a REAL payoff in energy savings? you never answered my question, and evidently have no intention to answer it, so bugger off, fruitcake. >>>>>>>> Since the difference in the "total drive home price" of a similarly >>>>>>>> equipped 4cy Camry and a hybrid Camry is well over $4,000 what I [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > you never answered my question, and evidently have no intention to answer > it, so bugger off, fruitcake. f.cking greenie LIEbrawl whackjobs. >>>>> Since the difference in the "total drive home price" of a similarly >>>>> equipped 4cy Camry and a hybrid Camry is well over $4,000 what I said [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > Typical f.cking naive LIEbrawl. Take off your f.cking blinders. Hybrid > technology is NOT proven. You WILL be paying big, big repair bills. I know I will just get attacked for posting this but..... here goes anyway. This guy is a storm spotter/chaser and his classic made it to 349,531 miles on the original bat and trans before his car got crashed out and totaled. http://john1701a.com/prius/owners/jesse4.htm It is only a sample of 1 so it isn't statistically significant but it is nice to know that at least some are making it that far. >> I would start by comparing the "total drive home price" of a similarly >> equipped 4cy Camry and the hybrid. I believe you will discover the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Bruce Fuckin DEMONrat greenies. Idiots. Repairs/breakdowns will be MUCH frequent on the HYBRID, as opposed to the tried and true technology in the REGULAR Camry. >>> I would start by comparing the "total drive home price" of a similarly >>> equipped 4cy Camry and the hybrid. I believe you will discover the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > on the HYBRID, as opposed to the tried and true technology in the REGULAR > Camry. go away, canuck fruitcake. >>>> I would start by comparing the "total drive home price" of a similarly >>>> equipped 4cy Camry and the hybrid. I believe you will discover the [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> > go away, canuck fruitcake. Suck dick, faggot. >>>>> I would start by comparing the "total drive home price" of a similarly >>>>> equipped 4cy Camry and the hybrid. I believe you will discover the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Suck dick, faggot. your total lack of intellect is showing, from this and the posts above. get lost, canuck fruitcake. go play in the street or do what you do best, sleep. >>>>>> I would start by comparing the "total drive home price" of a >>>>>> similarly [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > get lost, canuck fruitcake. go play in the street or do what you do best, > sleep. Still taking it up the arse, eh? >>>>>>> I would start by comparing the "total drive home price" of a >>>>>>> similarly [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Still taking it up the arse, eh? Nope, that's YOUR specialty. And welcome to it. Your pals must be confused when you play those games, because you're ALL a$$hole. > > I would start by comparing the "total drive home price" of a similarly > > equipped 4cy Camry and the hybrid. I believe you will discover the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Bruce At $4000 more and at $3.50/gallon, that is 1,142 gallons of regular unleaded. 1,142 gallons will drive you for 34,285 miles @30MPG 4cyl Camry. You get lower emissions and some owners claim that their brake pads are going longer than expected. I dont know if other maintenance cost are the same or if the HSD is maintenance free. Hehehe, With all this mumbo-jumbo, I'd bet you're already having second thoughts on your Camry Hybrid. I dont own a Hybrid but have a 4cyl camry with 25,000 miles on it, after my last oil change and air filter replacement, my tank of gas (17gallons) reached 500 miles with 75% highway, if you call the heavy traffic in the NJ garden state parkway highway driving. Anyway, when I getup to speed, I go about 5-10 mph above the speed limit. And I do a little of 75-80 mph as required (when I'm late, I'm not late everyday you know). Prior to my oil change I was a little higher than 470 miles. I know I shouldn't be emptying my tank as this is harmful for the pump, but at these times of high gas prices :( its just worth it. Sound silly but I'm not afraid that I'd run out of gas, after 25000 miles I know my car so much, I know when to stop at my favorite gas station.The Camry Hybrid to me is a fine car and maybe better than the 4cyl. I'd buy one if I could afford it. A hybrid would work for me since my highway driving is most often stop and go. I hope somebody will post here on how to take care of a hybrid battery, does it matter if you park the car in extreme weather conditions or to use a garage? avoiding very short trips where you think the battery will do all the power? I recall somebody posted that you could rework a toyota hybrid battery since they are just regular rechargeable batteries when opened up, and you only need a simple soldering skills. Because Im sure its going to void the warranty. DO NOT buy a hybrid because of the gas. It has been calculated that you must put somewhere in the neighborhood of 150,000 miles on the car before you consume enough gas to cover the premium you pay to get the hybrid. Buy a hybrid because it makes you feel good, and it is a good thing to do in the long run, but do not pretend you will save enough money from the extended mileage to cover the cost of the package. If you live in a heavily congested area and can drive most of the way to work on the batteries, then the hybrid may pay off, but if your commute is more go than stop, the hybrid will not save much gas. > Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Bruce Here is a comparison, you can draw your own conclusions: From Toyota's site comparing the 2009 Regular Camry with 2.4L AT with the Camry hybrid 2009 2.4L ECVT: http://www.toyota.com/compare/index.html?modelCode=camry#h_overview Combined Fuel Economy (City/Hwy) Regular 25 Hybrid 34 At $4.00 per gallon I calculate this for 15K miles per year: 15000 / 25 MPG = 600 gallons 15000 / 34 MPG = 441 gallons Difference = 159 gallons 159 X $4 = $636 saved per year I also throw in the Prius (slightly smaller car with better mileage) for grins: Website says 46 combined MPG: 15000 / 46 MPG = 326 gallons Difference = 274 gallons 274 X 4 = $1096 saved per year My Prius actual mileage is never less than 52 MPG: 15000 / 52 MPG = 288 gallons Difference = 312 gallons 312 X 4 = $1248 saved per year 52 MPG Prius 15000 / 30 MPG = 500 gallons Difference = 212 gallons 212 X 4 = $848 saved per year 46 MPG Prius vs. smaller Corolla 1.8L AT (30 Combined MPG) Difference = 174 gallons 174 X 4 = $696 saved per year > DO NOT buy a hybrid because of the gas. > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >> >> Bruce My wife has around 3000 miles on her Camry Hybrid. In stop and go driving it easily gets 36 mpg. Very impressive car. I doubt she would have been satisfied with the aceleration performance of the 4 cyclinder non hybrid. It is a big, heavy car for a 4 cylinder. One thing cool about the car is that although Toyota says 25 mph is the limit for the battery only mode, occassionally when you are going a constant 35 or so you will notice that the engine is not running for quite a while provided you don't go up a hill. Very, very impressive car. > Here is a comparison, you can draw your own conclusions: > From Toyota's site comparing the 2009 Regular Camry with 2.4L AT with the [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] >>> >>> Bruce 46 MPG Prius vs. smaller Corolla 1.8L AT (30 Combined MPG) Difference = 174 gallons 174 X 4 = $696 saved per year ------------------------- Again with this...? The 2009 corolla is almost the same size as the prius... Actually the corolla is longer and wider for 09..so stop misconstruing the facts.. > Again with this...? The 2009 corolla is almost the same size as the > prius... Actually the corolla is longer and wider for 09..so stop > misconstruing the facts.. No, it's not. You're the one falsifying information, for your own weird goals. If you have Carmax in your area check to see if they sell Toyotas in your state. I took their price to a local Toyota dealer and they met it. Carmax bought my old car for $2k more than the dealer would offer me in trade. > Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Bruce
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