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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / October 2008Anco wiper blades called a CR best buy
Even the OEM ones don't seem to last as long these days. http://www.freep.com/article/20081007/BUSINESS01/810070338/1014 For a streak-free windshield, Consumer Reports recommends a wiper made by Southfield-based Federal-Mogul Corp. The magazine tested and ranked 15 models of wiper blades for its November issue, and Federal-Mogul's Anco 31 Series model offered one of the best values. The Anco ranked third in overall performance, with wipers from Valeo and RainX taking the first two spots. But Anco was one of two wipers to be named a Consumer Reports Best Buy. The Anco model costs $7 a piece for an 18-inch wiper and $10 for a 24-inch wiper, compared with $9 and $15 for the top-ranking Valeo model. Consumer Reports, which had its staffers test the wipers on their vehicles, suggests drivers change their vehicle's windshield wipers every six months, when even many of the best models started to leave streaks. Jewel Gopwani In article <471df6be-ff73-4d0b-9ceb-a43b8c699b0a@b2g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > Even the OEM ones don't seem to last as long these days. > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Jewel Gopwani Honda OEM blades have always, ALWAYS been the best you can ever buy. > In article > <471df6be-ff73-4d0b-9ceb-a43b8c699...@b2g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Prove it. In article <2b239f7a-7236-42b1-a0ac-da644b67f698@u65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, > > Honda OEM blades have always, ALWAYS been the best you can ever buy.- Hide > > quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > Prove it. They prove themselves. > In article > <2b239f7a-7236-42b1-a0ac-da644b67f698@u65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > They prove themselves. concur - i've tried all kinds of blades and the ones sold as oem honda are by far the best i've used. both for initial quality and durability. > In article > <471df6be-ff73-4d0b-9ceb-a43b8c699b0a@b2g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Honda OEM blades have always, ALWAYS been the best you can ever buy. A question here. Everyone seems to enforce that Honda makes the greatest everything for their cars....so I what would like to know is if Honda actually makes all of these fluids (oil, ATF, brake fluid, antifreeze) and ancillary components (such as the wiper blades mentioned above) themselves, or do they contract it out? I've used Ancos before, and there was no discernable difference in the performance of the wiper blade. Last I knew, Mobil makes the oil and ATF. Not sure about the rest. dan > A question here. Everyone seems to enforce that Honda makes the > greatest everything for their cars....so I what would like to know is > if Honda actually makes all of these fluids (oil, ATF, brake fluid, > antifreeze) and ancillary components (such as the wiper blades > mentioned above) themselves, or do they contract it out? > Last I knew, Mobil makes the oil and ATF. Not sure about the rest. > > dan So it would seem that since Honda does not make these items, there is no true good reason to prefer Honda ATF or oil over another manufacturer if produced to the same standards. >> A question here. Everyone seems to enforce that Honda makes the >> greatest everything for their cars....so I what would like to know >> is if Honda actually makes all of these fluids (oil, ATF, brake >> fluid, antifreeze) and ancillary components (such as the wiper >> blades mentioned above) themselves, or do they contract it out? >> Last I knew, Mobil makes the oil and ATF. Not sure about the rest. > >So it would seem that since Honda does not make these items, there is >no true good reason to prefer Honda ATF or oil over another >manufacturer if produced to the same standards. The problem is verifying that they are produced to the same standards. By purchasing Honda oil, you are basically paying extra for Honda's quality control. Is this worth it? I don't think it is any longer, since the API folks do a pretty good job of things. But for more exotic fluids it might well be. --scott  Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > >> Last I knew, Mobil makes the oil and ATF. Not sure about the rest. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > -- > "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." They dont make oil, they specify it and it is nothing special or better than what other cars use. Paying a dealer his markup is a waste. >>> Last I knew, Mobil makes the oil and ATF. Not sure about the rest. >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >might well be. >--scott Scott, I don't believe that Honda or any other car manufacturer does quality control testing on anything produced outside of their own factories. It would be prohibitively expensive for Honda to generate a spec on motor oil and then buy and package oil that would meet their specs. They have a minimum API spec and any oil brand that meets their minimum can bid on supplying them with oil. They buy the cheapest that meets their specs. They don't even bottle it, the supplier bottles it and brands it per the customer's wants. My neighbor works for Johnson Controls building car batteries. They don't sell anything under their own brand but their entire production goes out under OEM or after-market branding. I don't know who they currently brand for but at one time they produced OEM batteries for Chrysler, Ford and Honda plus after market for Interstate, Sears and Monkey Ward. Jack > Scott, I don't believe that Honda or any other car manufacturer does > quality control testing on anything produced outside of their own > factories. Sure they do. They spec power steering fluid and auto trans fluid, and if you bypass their stuff, you see problems. Engine oil, probably not. >> Scott, I don't believe that Honda or any other car manufacturer does >> quality control testing on anything produced outside of their own [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Engine oil, probably not. I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past 30 years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, antifreeze, brake fluid, oil, etc. I seriously doubt that there is anything "special" about them other than the label. >>> Scott, I don't believe that Honda or any other car manufacturer does >>> quality control testing on anything produced outside of their own [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, antifreeze, brake fluid, > oil, etc. i use c.o.t.s antifreeze, brake fluid etc., but not atf. in my experience, the only atf that makes a honda shift well is honda z1. if you've added non-honda fluid and it's been "ok", it sounds like you haven't achieved full dilution. > I seriously doubt that there is anything "special" about them other than the > label. rather than just "doubt", why don't you do some homework? do you "doubt" that the component quality used by honda under the hood is any better than frod? have you ever dissected a honda vs. non-honda spec igniter unit for instance? honda may not manufacture half their stuff directly, but they /do/ write the spec and /do/ undertake q.c. >>>> Scott, I don't believe that Honda or any other car manufacturer does >>>> quality control testing on anything produced outside of their own [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > instance? honda may not manufacture half their stuff directly, but they > /do/ write the spec and /do/ undertake q.c. While specific components that are manufactured for specific applications will be built for those applications, genric items that are manufactured to a general specification and relabled as OEM are not. This is something I am quite familiar with, as I have been in the OEM industry for many years (non automotive, but OEM non the less). >>>>> Scott, I don't believe that Honda or any other car manufacturer does >>>>> quality control testing on anything produced outside of their own [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > will be built for those applications, genric items that are manufactured to > a general specification and relabled as OEM are not. that statement is technically true... > This is something I am > quite familiar with, as I have been in the OEM industry for many years (non > automotive, but OEM non the less). but here's the problem, you're /presuming/ that to be always the case. it's not! just because some manufacturers do that, doesn't mean they all do. >>>>>> Scott, I don't believe that Honda or any other car manufacturer >>>>>> does [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > case. it's not! just because some manufacturers do that, doesn't > mean they all do. We make the same component for 4 different companies. Although each customer has a slightly different specification, the process is designed to meet them all. For anyone to mass manufacture a single component under multiple processes and conditions would have great cost implications. It is an economic reality. >>>>>>> Scott, I don't believe that Honda or any other car manufacturer >>>>>>> does [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > processes and conditions would have great cost implications. It is an > economic reality. indeed. but i return to the original point - i can tell you from experience that two "generic" products used on hondas are not generic at all - atf and p/s fluid. just because others practice what you say, doesn't mean they all do. >>>>>>>> Scott, I don't believe that Honda or any other car >>>>>>>> manufacturer does [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > generic at all - atf and p/s fluid. just because others practice > what you say, doesn't mean they all do. Manufacturing is manufacturing. Unless someone can point to a specification for Honda fluids that actually make them unique from other good and commonly used SAE equivalent components, I will continue to use those generics that are readily available. While you have historically given very good advice in this newsgroup and I respect your opinion on just about everything you post, I have to disagree with the assessment of "Honda only fluids". It is a common practice for just about every manufacturer to recommend in their manuals to use only their fluids as a way of increasing sales of these items. As I have stated before, my own experiences are quite the opposite of yours, even with the small sample size of 5 Honda vehicles over 30 years. >>>>>>>>> Scott, I don't believe that Honda or any other car >>>>>>>>> manufacturer does [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > their manuals to use only their fluids as a way of increasing sales of > these items. we can agree on that - in principle. > As I have stated before, my own experiences are quite > the opposite of yours, even with the small sample size of 5 Honda > vehicles over 30 years. search the honda newsgroups - there's a tom of people disagree with you on the atf/psf thing. what atf do you use? and how often do you change it? >>>>>>>>>> Scott, I don't believe that Honda or any other car >>>>>>>>>> manufacturer does [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > > what atf do you use? and how often do you change it? no response? what atf do you use? and how often do you change it? >>>>>>>>>>> Scott, I don't believe that Honda or any other car >>>>>>>>>>> manufacturer does [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > >no response? what atf do you use? and how often do you change it? I use Toyota ATF and drain/refill every 30,000 miles in my '92 Corolla Wagon with 226,000 miles on the clock. SignatureScott in Florida >>>>>>>>>>> Scott, I don't believe that Honda or any other car >>>>>>>>>>> manufacturer does [quoted text clipped - 89 lines] > > no response? what atf do you use? and how often do you change it? Castrol (use the oil as well). Changes as per the manual. > I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past 30 > years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, antifreeze, brake fluid, > oil, etc. > > I seriously doubt that there is anything "special" about them other than the > label. Go ahead, then, use non-Honda ATF and tell us what you think. Same with coolant. Shoot, same with power steering fluid nowadays. They're all part of a complex system that's highly engineered. Long gone are the days of everybody using the same stuff that's off the shelf at Goober's gas station. >> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past 30 >> years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, antifreeze, brake fluid, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >gone are the days of everybody using the same stuff that's off the shelf >at Goober's gas station. What is so 'highly engineered' about a power steering system? Exactly what is there about Honda, Toyota, GM, Ford or Chrysler power steering fluid that makes it special? ATF fluid needs to supply the proper friction modifiers so there is a difference between Ford and GM ATF but if the after-market ATF has the proper modifiers, it will perform the same as the OEM stuff. I've been using Preston Anti-freeze (the green stuff) in my cars for the last 45 years and I have never had a engine or cooling system problem that could have been caused by the coolant. Why pay $15.00 a gallon for anti-freeze that carries a GM or Ford brand when I can get something just as good for half the price? Jack >>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past 30 >>> years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, antifreeze, brake [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > but if the after-market ATF has the proper modifiers, it will perform > the same as the OEM stuff. How do you know if a particular brand of ATF has the same additives. Some after-market stuff may not cause problems but whether they provide optimal performance for your vehicle is another question. > I've been using Preston Anti-freeze (the green stuff) in my cars for > the last 45 years and I have never had a engine or cooling system > problem that could have been caused by the coolant. Why pay $15.00 a > gallon for anti-freeze that carries a GM or Ford brand when I can get > something just as good for half the price? According to the service manual, non-OEM anti-freeze on a Honda could lead to corrosion. Why take that chance. The OEM anti-freeze can last for a long long time. $15 is a cheap insurance. >>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past 30 >>> years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, antifreeze, brake fluid, [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Jack antifreeze with silicates [cheap corrosion inhibitors] cause much sorter seal lives. there's increased abrasion of the seal interface. >>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past 30 >>>> years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, antifreeze, brake [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > antifreeze with silicates [cheap corrosion inhibitors] cause much sorter > seal lives. there's increased abrasion of the seal interface. The correct type of antifreeze can be purchased for any vehicle. >>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past >>>>> 30 years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, antifreeze, [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > The correct type of antifreeze can be purchased for any vehicle. But not all antifreeze of the same type are created equal for a particular vehicle. >>>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the >>>>>> past 30 years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > But not all antifreeze of the same type are created equal for a > particular vehicle. The probability that Honda branded antifreeze is made on the same equipment with the same ingredients and with the same process as Prestone (or some other high volume manufacturer) is very high. There are many non-silcate brands available. >But not all antifreeze of the same type are created equal for a particular >vehicle. This is unfortunately true, and it's precisely the sort of thing I was talking about. And it's an example of the technology outpacing the standards. You can go down to the local auto parts store today, and buy a generic jug of coolant for your 1980 car, no problem. In a few years, you should be able to go out to the local auto parts store and buy a generic jug of coolant for your 2009 car, but not quite yet for all cars. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." >> But not all antifreeze of the same type are created equal for a particular >> vehicle. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > yet for all cars. > --scott it's not so long ago that you couldn't get non-silicate antifreeze at the auto parts store - just like it took some time after honda engine oil spec changed to 5w-20 before you could buy generics of that weight. bottom line - in a lot of cases, you can buy a perfectly decent generic qualified for its job. but the manufacturer brand is a /guarantee/ it will work - generic is not. > >Shoot, same with power steering fluid nowadays. > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > What is so 'highly engineered' about a power steering system? I dunno, but go ahead--use the same power steering fluid in your new Honda as you use in your 67 Chevy. See what happens. >>> Shoot, same with power steering fluid nowadays. >>> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I dunno, but go ahead--use the same power steering fluid in your new > Honda as you use in your 67 Chevy. See what happens. i second that... >>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past 30 >>> years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, antifreeze, brake fluid, [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > gallon for anti-freeze that carries a GM or Ford brand when I can get > something just as good for half the price? green stuff isnt good with aluminum. > Jack >> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past 30 >> years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, antifreeze, brake [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > gone are the days of everybody using the same stuff that's off the shelf > at Goober's gas station. There is nothing specific about Honda fluids. They are generic products that are made by other manufacturers that label them for Honda. They may audit their suppliers, and will have specific requirements for quality systems and/or ensure that they are ISO registered, but of course, the systems also apply to anything they manufacture. >>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past 30 >>> years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, antifreeze, brake [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > There is nothing specific about Honda fluids. They are generic products i've proven that not true for at least two of the major car fluids. * use of non-honda power steering fluid in a honda system wrecks seals. i know that from personal experience. * use of non-honda transmission fluid, even one that allegedly exceeds the nominal dexron II spec, makes a honda transmission shift like you've been rear-ended. i know that from personal experience. i don't know any different facts on honda coolant or brake fluids, but based on the above, i can easily believe them to be of a high spec that exceeds relabeled generics. > that are made by other manufacturers that label them for Honda. > > They may audit their suppliers, and will have specific requirements for > quality systems and/or ensure that they are ISO registered, but of course, > the systems also apply to anything they manufacture. iso has /nothing/ to do with a manufacturer's tech specs. >>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the >>>> past 30 [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > but based on the above, i can easily believe them to be of a high > spec that exceeds relabeled generics. While I respect your opinions (from what I've read in this group), I would have to say that personal experiences are a small sample size. I have had Honda vehicles for 30+ years, and never used any Honda branded fluids, and never had an issue, though my personal experiences are a small sample size as well, even if they differ from yours. >> that are made by other manufacturers that label them for Honda. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > iso has /nothing/ to do with a manufacturer's tech specs. It has to do with quality systems and documentation. >>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the >>>>> past 30 [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > branded fluids, and never had an issue, though my personal experiences > are a small sample size as well, even if they differ from yours. i don't use honda branded brake fluid or coolant. but i do use honda branded atf and power steering because of past problems. when i was young and dumb, you couldn't tell me that it was worth paying for honda atf - afterall the book said it was just dexron II spec. however, when my car started to shift badly after i changed out the fluid, you'd think i'd learn, right? no. long story short - several cars [not just mine], and some time later, the penny finally drops. honda atf /is/ different. and a honda starts to shift better again immediately you revert back to their stuff. same for power steering fluid and watching people get leaks a couple of months after using generic. multiple times over the years [though fortunately, not on my cars]. i understand honda p/s fluid has silicone in it and hardware different seal materials. don't ask me why. >>> that are made by other manufacturers that label them for Honda. >>> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > It has to do with quality systems and documentation. right - it paper-trails the production - iso9001 [etc] has nothing to do with whether the spec was written correctly or is appropriate. it's incredibly common for someone to spec the wrong material for a job - but it's still perfectly iso compliant! > I have had Honda vehicles for 30+ years, and never used any Honda branded > fluids, and never had an issue, though my personal experiences are a small > sample size as well, even if they differ from yours. What year is your Honda? Maybe older models are not subject to this kind of requirements. On my 2005 service manual, it clearly say that non-Honda antifreeze could lead to corrossion. I am not sure if Prestone will do that but why take the chance. Antifreeze is much cheaper than a water pump or a radiator. >> I have had Honda vehicles for 30+ years, and never used any Honda >> branded fluids, and never had an issue, though my personal [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > why take the chance. Antifreeze is much cheaper than a water pump or > a radiator. '79 Accord, '82 Accord, '01 Accord, '02 Civic, '04 Accord (the '01 and '04 Accords are current). Non silicate DAT type antifreeze is all that is required for newer Honda vehicles, a type that every major manufacturer makes. Why would Honda require a coolant different than Audi, Nissan, Toyota, Subaru, Jaguar, Porsche or (place your brand of vehicle here)? Would all of these auto manufacturers as well as all of the others specify something different? >>> I have had Honda vehicles for 30+ years, and never used any Honda >>> branded fluids, and never had an issue, though my personal [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >all of these auto manufacturers as well as all of the others specify >something different? I have already given up, these folks in the newsgroups don't understand the economics of manufacturing. Off the shelf is always cheaper than custom and, if care is used in selecting a supplier, just as good. The older style iron block / aluminum head engines as well as the aluminum block / iron head did require a special coolant because the stuff for all-iron engines would promote electrolysis. But new all aluminum engines need something that won't attack aluminum and that includes almost every coolant manufactured today. Read the label on the jug of coolant. Do you really think any of the coolant manufactures are going to claim to be compatible with all types of antifreezes if they aren't? Just imagine all the lawsuits that would set up and the billions of dollars in judgments. Jack >>>> I have had Honda vehicles for 30+ years, and never used any Honda >>>> branded fluids, and never had an issue, though my personal [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Jack The only issue is the standard manufacturers disclaimer that if one does not use the branded products, the warranty may be voided (no matter how unreasonable that is). While I'm sure that one could prove equivalency in a court of law, no one probably wants to be the test case. This could be a mitigating factor for most. >>>>> I have had Honda vehicles for 30+ years, and never used any Honda >>>>> branded fluids, and never had an issue, though my personal [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > This could be a mitigating factor for most. In addition, corrosion is a slow process. Who is going to notice the difference? It affects the water pump or radiator more than the engine. >>>>>> I have had Honda vehicles for 30+ years, and never used any Honda >>>>>> branded fluids, and never had an issue, though my personal [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > In addition, corrosion is a slow process. Who is going to notice the > difference? It affects the water pump or radiator more than the engine. Whose to say another manufacturer doesn't make a product that is superior performance? >>>>> I have had Honda vehicles for 30+ years, and never used any Honda >>>>> branded fluids, and never had an issue, though my personal [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > >This could be a mitigating factor for most. I understand. The manufacturer has no control over what fluids you buy. So protect his pocket, he has to ensure that you use quality products hence the threat of no warranty coverage if you don't use his stuff. No one has said, and I'm not implying, that the manufacturer's branded product is inferior to OTC products. But the burden of proof is on you. You would have to prove that the product you use meets the manufacturer's specs. Once you do that, I think most dealers would honor the warranty. There have been numerous lawsuits over just this kind of thing. Jack >>>>>> I have had Honda vehicles for 30+ years, and never used any Honda >>>>>> branded fluids, and never had an issue, though my personal [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > Jack That is a pretty accurate summary. >>>> I have had Honda vehicles for 30+ years, and never used any Honda >>>> branded fluids, and never had an issue, though my personal [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > I have already given up, these folks in the newsgroups don't > understand the economics of manufacturing. well, /someone/ doesn't understand economics of manufacturing. if you have a modern plant, use a batch process, and have different specs for different bulk customers, you'd be a damned fool to supply material over-spec just because you couldn't be bothered to push a few buttons on your metering flow controls. > Off the shelf is always > cheaper than custom and, if care is used in selecting a supplier, just [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > new all aluminum engines need something that won't attack aluminum and > that includes almost every coolant manufactured today. go to woolmort - you can still get non-aluminum anti-freeze. > Read the label on the jug of coolant. Do you really think any of the > coolant manufactures are going to claim to be compatible with all > types of antifreezes if they aren't? Just imagine all the lawsuits > that would set up and the billions of dollars in judgments. like this? http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/settlements/11334/general-motors-dexcool-an tifreeze.html >>> I have had Honda vehicles for 30+ years, and never used any Honda >>> branded fluids, and never had an issue, though my personal experiences [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > required for newer Honda vehicles, a type that every major manufacturer > makes. When did you replace antifreeze on 04 Accord? The original should last for 120k/10 years. > When did you replace antifreeze on 04 Accord? The original should last for > 120k/10 years. FWIW, toyotas ATF is "lifetime" and the coolant is good for 120k. > Why would Honda require a coolant different than Audi, Nissan, Toyota, > Subaru, Jaguar, Porsche or (place your brand of vehicle here)? Would > all of these auto manufacturers as well as all of the others specify > something different? IIRC, VAG (volkwagen/audi) spec a different type of coolant. >>> I have had Honda vehicles for 30+ years, and never used any Honda >>> branded fluids, and never had an issue, though my personal [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > that is required for newer Honda vehicles, a type that every major > manufacturer makes. how many coolant pump failures have you had? and why did you bother to use non-silicate if this subject is such a non-issue? > Why would Honda require a coolant different than Audi, Nissan, Toyota, > Subaru, Jaguar, Porsche or (place your brand of vehicle here)? Would > all of these auto manufacturers as well as all of the others specify > something different? easy - longevity. japanese manufacturers differentiate themselves with longevity. europeans don't design for mileage much over 100k. in fact, they frequently design /against/ it. why waste money on a higher spec coolant if the car's only got so long to live? > * use of non-honda power steering fluid in a honda system wrecks seals. > i know that from personal experience. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > based on the above, i can easily believe them to be of a high spec that > exceeds relabeled generics. ive never had a prob with using the red dexcool (silicate free, aluminum safe) on any of my japanese vehicles. and unless the brake system uses silicone fluid, regular DOT 3/4 works great, changed every 2-3yrs as required. i do agree totally with you on the tranny fluid, though. thats a common issue, and not just on hondas. Mopar has their own spec, as well. >> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the >> past 30 [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > shelf > at Goober's gas station. Systems are engineered using available standard materials. I have seen no indications that Honda has used systems that has forced or required a technological breakthrough in auto fluids. >>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the >>> past 30 [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Systems are engineered using available standard materials. not always true - look at clutch thrust bearings. bearings are a commodity "material" with stock bearings available for every conceivable application. but auto manufacturers spec clutch thrust bearings that are almost always different and exclusive from any of the off-the-shelf solutions. because they can. > I have seen > no indications that Honda has used systems that has forced or required > a technological breakthrough in auto fluids. then you're not looking and you're not paying attention to the facts. honda auto transmissions are not standard planetary honda gear trains, they use a "stick" transmission configuration with clutch packs instead of synchros. and they use one-way clutches too. on that basis, i personally have absolutely no trouble believing they'd need a different spec fluid. there's nothing "forcing" them to do it that way, but honda are different. oh, and there's nothing "forcing" honda to make a car that will routinely last, 300k, 500k, or more miles. but honda are different. >>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past 30 >>>> years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, antifreeze, brake [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > oh, and there's nothing "forcing" honda to make a car that will routinely > last, 300k, 500k, or more miles. but honda are different. This is a TOYOTA newsgroup. Why are you polluting it with Honda stuff? >>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the >>>>> past 30 [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > This is a TOYOTA newsgroup. Why are you polluting it with Honda stuff? because if you follow the thread, you'll see it was originally posted to alt.autos.toyota.camry, alt.autos.toyota, rec.autos.makers.honda and rec.autos.tech, that's why. >>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past >>>>> 30 [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > This is a TOYOTA newsgroup. Why are you polluting it with Honda stuff? Nothing wrong with injecting some Honda's excitement into Toyota's bordom. ;-) >>>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past >>>>>> 30 [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > Nothing wrong with injecting some Honda's excitement into Toyota's bordom. > ;-) Here in Edmonton, Canada, Hondas are the preferred vehicles of gang members. >>>>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past >>>>>>> 30 [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > Here in Edmonton, Canada, Hondas are the preferred vehicles of gang > members. Absolutely, Hondas have good performance, handling and crash rating. Gangsters often care more about what cars they drive than average Joes. In Texas mostly old folks drive Toyawntas. >>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past 30 >>>> years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, antifreeze, brake [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > then you're not looking and you're not paying attention to the facts. > honda auto transmissions are not standard planetary honda gear trains, whoops, too many hondas. should be: "honda auto transmissions are not standard planetary gear trains". > they use a "stick" transmission configuration with clutch packs instead > of synchros. and they use one-way clutches too. on that basis, i [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > that will routinely last, 300k, 500k, or more miles. but honda are > different. >>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the >>>> past 30 [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > bearings that are almost always different and exclusive from any of > the off-the-shelf solutions. because they can. I would disagree with the assessment above. Thrust bearing applications are specific. In this case, their need has created a new standard unit because no other standard unit fit their model as well as they wanted it to. I'd bet they considered stock items in their design first, before designing a new one. >> I have seen no indications that Honda has used systems that has >> forced or required a technological breakthrough in auto fluids. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > there's nothing "forcing" honda to make a car that will routinely > last, 300k, 500k, or more miles. but honda are different. The only way to tell is to compare the actual specification for the Honda branded vs. those that are at least closely compared to it, such as the Mobil grades that have been discussed. I'll see if I google is my freind for this one today...... >>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the >>>>> past 30 [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > standard unit because no other standard unit fit their model as well > as they wanted it to. but that's my point!!! it costs almost nothing extra to have a custom bearing unit specific to the task!!! why should lubricant be any different? [rhetorical] it's a batch process. it's a piece of cake to do from a production viewpoint, and can have substantial mechanical benefits as shown by the way honda atf performs differently to non-honda atf. > I'd bet they considered stock items in their design first, before > designing a new one. maybe, maybe not. maybe they want lock-in. >>> I have seen no indications that Honda has used systems that has >>> forced or required a technological breakthrough in auto fluids. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Honda branded vs. those that are at least closely compared to it, such > as the Mobil grades that have been discussed. go ahead. but you'll be lucky to find anything specific since most producers go out of their way to keep the public in the dark about this stuff. there's more to oil than just viscosity index. > I'll see if I google is my freind for this one today...... >>>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past >>>>>> 30 [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > producers go out of their way to keep the public in the dark about this > stuff. there's more to oil than just viscosity index. There is plenty of more specific information available then viscosity index, isuch as SG, viscosity at s 100 deg C, Brookfield Viscosity and Phosphorous % by weight including the ASTM test methods used. Does this tell the whole story, no, not quite, but it is good start for comparison purposes. >> I'll see if I google is my freind for this one today...... >>>>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past >>>>>>> 30 [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > Does this tell the whole story, no, not quite, can you understate that again please? i'm not sure i failed to understand you properly. > but it is good start for > comparison purposes. so, yet again, explain why honda atf, in a honda transmission, shifts smoothly, but, say, castrol dexron III shifts like arnie's humvee is nudging your back bumper? and why when you swap /back/ to honda atf, does your transmission shift smoothly again??? >>> I'll see if I google is my freind for this one today...... still waiting on that one... >>>>>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the >>>>>>>> past 30 [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > nudging your back bumper? and why when you swap /back/ to honda atf, does > your transmission shift smoothly again??? I used dextron III equivalent in my 01 accord, and there was no discernable difference in peformance or shifting of the transmission, so I could not comment on this phenomenon. >>>> I'll see if I google is my freind for this one today...... > > still waiting on that one... >>>>>>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the >>>>>>>>> past 30 [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > difference in peformance or shifting of the transmission, so I could not > comment on this phenomenon. but you seem to have an opinion! how can you have an opinion if you're not familiar with the facts? and btw, the 01 accord has full electronic transmission control, including engine down-power through ignition retardation on shifting. so yes, you might well expect a smoother shift than you'd get with the older transmissions. but because electronics compensate, doesn't mean that the transmission is operating optimally as it would with the factory spec atf. >>>>> I'll see if I google is my freind for this one today...... >>> >> still waiting on that one... found those specs yet? >>>>>>>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over >>>>>>>>>> the past 30 [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > but you seem to have an opinion! how can you have an opinion if > you're not familiar with the facts? I cannot experience your "facts". > and btw, the 01 accord has full electronic transmission control, > including engine down-power through ignition retardation on > shifting. so yes, you might well expect a smoother shift than you'd > get with the older transmissions. but because electronics > compensate, doesn't mean that the transmission is operating > optimally as it would with the factory spec atf. If the transmission is shifting optimally, then it is performing optimally. There is, after all, not much else for it to do. >>>>>> I'll see if I google is my freind for this one today...... >>>> >>> still waiting on that one... > > found those specs yet? I have found them from Castrol, but finding them from the Z1 has proven to be quite difficult. >>>>>>>>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over >>>>>>>>>>> the past 30 [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > > I cannot experience your "facts". don't bother with my data - google this group and see how many times this subject arises, how many times people complain of harsh shifting, and how many times the cure is reversion to honda atf. >> and btw, the 01 accord has full electronic transmission control, >> including engine down-power through ignition retardation on [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > If the transmission is shifting optimally, then it is performing > optimally. There is, after all, not much else for it to do. i guess you're invested in that position now! but if you've only done drain and fill once, you're still about 70% honda atf. >>>>>>> I'll see if I google is my freind for this one today...... >>>> still waiting on that one... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I have found them from Castrol, but finding them from the Z1 has > proven to be quite difficult. surprise. >>>>>>>>>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the >>>>>>>>>>>> past 30 [quoted text clipped - 93 lines] > i guess you're invested in that position now! but if you've only done > drain and fill once, you're still about 70% honda atf. Why change the subject and assume that I used some type of shortcut and that is why I had no issues with non-Honda ATF? Maybe it might have something to do with the mileage on the transmission and the year of the car itself. As you stated, the '01 Accord EX tranny has electronic means to assist in the shifting, and I'm sure my '04 Accord EX and '02 Civic EX would have the same or similar hardware. As well, none of them have over 80k miles on them, and I have had no issues with any of them shifting. As far as the older Honda's I have owned over the years, they have not had automatic transmissions. As for as an "investment" in a position, that in itself is another matter of opinion. It is a shame that you have to feel as if any position has to be some sort of an investment as opposed to an open exchange of ideas. >>>>>>>> I'll see if I google is my freind for this one today...... >>>>> still waiting on that one... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > surprise. Not really. It was what I expected. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the >>>>>>>>>>>>> past 30 [quoted text clipped - 92 lines] > Why change the subject and assume that I used some type of shortcut and that > is why I had no issues with non-Honda ATF? i'm not changing the subject. and drain-and-fill is honda factory procedure. if you do that, you'll only change 30-odd percent of the fluid each time. hence you may not have "contaminated" the fluid sufficiently to have an adverse effect. > Maybe it might have something to do with the mileage on the transmission and > the year of the car itself. As you stated, the '01 Accord EX tranny has > electronic means to assist it's not electronic assist, it's electronic control. different things. the actuators are still hydraulic. > in the shifting, and I'm sure my '04 Accord EX > and '02 Civic EX would have the same or similar hardware. As well, none of > them have over 80k miles on them, and I have had no issues with any of them > shifting. at only 80k miles, you shouldn't be changing the fluid anyway! > As far as the older Honda's I have owned over the years, they > have not had automatic transmissions. > > As for as an "investment" in a position, that in itself is another matter of > opinion. It is a shame that you have to feel as if any position has to be > some sort of an investment as opposed to an open exchange of ideas. someone is "invested" in their position is they stick to it, regardless of contrary fact. you are indeed invested. >>>>>>>>> I'll see if I google is my freind for this one today...... >>>>>> still waiting on that one... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Not really. It was what I expected. me too. but i wasn't making assertions that i could find the data like you were! >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the past 30 [quoted text clipped - 105 lines] > it's not electronic assist, it's electronic control. different things. > the actuators are still hydraulic. Symantics. >> in the shifting, and I'm sure my '04 Accord EX and '02 Civic EX would >> have the same or similar hardware. As well, none of them have over 80k [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > someone is "invested" in their position is they stick to it, regardless of > contrary fact. you are indeed invested. It is obvious that your prejudices and your afinity to be right no matter what has affected your abilities to have any useful discussions. As such, I refuse to continue this discussion to the point that it degenerates into a typical usenet flamewar that will eventually have Godwin's law apply. Let's just say we agree to disagree and leave it at that. If you chose to continue the conversation, you may do so with yourself. >>>>>>>>>> I'll see if I google is my freind for this one today...... >>>>>>> still waiting on that one... [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > me too. but i wasn't making assertions that i could find the data like > you were! > > it's not electronic assist, it's electronic control. different things. > > the actuators are still hydraulic. > > Symantics. no, Symantec is a company. What you meant was "semantics". >> > it's not electronic assist, it's electronic control. different things. >> > the actuators are still hydraulic. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > What you meant was "semantics". Haha. Hylarious. >> > it's not electronic assist, it's electronic control. different things. >> > the actuators are still hydraulic. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > What you meant was "semantics". I stand corrected. I must have had something else on my mind...! >>> > it's not electronic assist, it's electronic control. different things. >>> > the actuators are still hydraulic. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >I stand corrected. I must have had something else on my mind...! hehehehe maybe he has a virus! hehehehe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the past 30 [quoted text clipped - 104 lines] > > Symantics. no, control and assistance are very different things. the vacuum servo on your brakes assists, your foot controls. >>> in the shifting, and I'm sure my '04 Accord EX and '02 Civic EX would >>> have the same or similar hardware. As well, none of them have over 80k [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > It is obvious that your prejudices and your afinity to be right no matter > what has affected your abilities to have any useful discussions. eh? i'm seeking the facts - that's not a "prejudice" thing. i'd love to use cheapo after-market atf on my honda, but experience has taught me that it gives inferior results - for the reasons explained above so many times. > As such, I > refuse to continue this discussion to the point that it degenerates into a > typical usenet flamewar that will eventually have Godwin's law apply. > > Let's just say we agree to disagree and leave it at that. If you chose to > continue the conversation, you may do so with yourself. i don't see how you can reasonably object to getting facts straight unless you're either somehow emotionally invested in something that's not a fact or you think i'm bullshitting you. >>>>>>>>>>> I'll see if I google is my freind for this one today...... >>>>>>>> still waiting on that one... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> me too. but i wasn't making assertions that i could find the data like >> you were! >>>>>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past >>>>>>>> 30 [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] > > still waiting on that one... I have trouble with my 89 legend, using Dexron2, the FSM says Dexron2. Should I try Honda fluid? >>>>>>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past >>>>>>>>> 30 [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] > I have trouble with my 89 legend, using Dexron2, the FSM says Dexron2. > Should I try Honda fluid? what are the symptoms? >>>>>>>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past >>>>>>>>>> 30 [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] > > what are the symptoms? Over-revs first when accelerating at anything other than moderate throttle, then jumps into third, jumps back to second momentarily then continuues in third and to fourth. >>>>>>>>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past >>>>>>>>>>> 30 [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > third and to fourth. > honda atf will help, but you're better off making sure the kickdown cable is adjusted correctly [if it has one], that the engine is tuned right [if it's hunting in anticipation of a climb in rpm's that never come, it can fluff about like you describe - trust me on that one] and last but not least, making sure the fluid level is correct. in my old civics, the atf is measured 30-60 seconds after shutdown, from full temperature. of course, you could also have a slipping clutch, but that gets real bad real quick, and you can isolate it by holding the transmission select in the suspect gear for diagnosis. fyi, my crx sometimes does what you describe on cold days. it used to do it in warmer weather too, but after i undertook the above, and changed the fluid once, it only does it on the first shift of the day up a grade. after that, no problems. > Scott, I don't believe that Honda or any other car manufacturer does > quality control testing on anything produced outside of their own [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > cheapest that meets their specs. They don't even bottle it, the > supplier bottles it and brands it per the customer's wants. Honda motor oil is made by Mobil. Do you think it's the same as Mobil 5000 which meets the API spec? >> Scott, I don't believe that Honda or any other car manufacturer does >> quality control testing on anything produced outside of their own [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Honda motor oil is made by Mobil. Do you think it's the same as Mobil 5000 >which meets the API spec? It probably is. But I bet their limited slip differential lube isn't the same as the off-the-shelf Mobil product, even if it's made by Mobil. Oil is pretty generic, some other fluids aren't. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." >>> Scott, I don't believe that Honda or any other car manufacturer >>> does [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Oil is pretty generic, some other fluids aren't. > --scott It depends on what specification the fluids are made to. If Honda fluids are made to the same specification as those for other vehicles, then it should not make a difference which brand is used. > Even the OEM ones don't seem to last as long these days. > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Jewel Gopwani And yet I get better results every time with Tryco. Go figure. > And yet I get better results every time with Tryco. Go figure. My Tripledge silicone rubber wipers are 15 years old and are as good as new, meaning they don't wipe very well. But that's OK because I live in sunny Phoenix >> And yet I get better results every time with Tryco. Go figure. > >My Tripledge silicone rubber wipers are 15 years old and are as good >as new, meaning they don't wipe very well. But that's OK because I >live in sunny Phoenix Bull sh.t No wiper lasts in the sun.... SignatureScott in Florida >>> And yet I get better results every time with Tryco. Go figure. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Scott in Florida Bull sh.t. Wipe them with Armorall or similar product. Let it soak in, then wipe the business edge with alcohol swab to remove excess Armorall. ROFLMAO!!! >>>> And yet I get better results every time with Tryco. Go figure. >>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >ROFLMAO!!! Bull sh.t All you get then is oil streaks.... SignatureScott in Florida >>>>> And yet I get better results every time with Tryco. Go figure. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Sot in Florida Nope. Works fine. I've been doing it for 20+ years. You just have to make sure you remove the Armorall from the "business" part of the blade. >>>>>> And yet I get better results every time with Tryco. Go figure. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >Nope. Works fine. I've been doing it for 20+ years. You just have to make >sure you remove the Armorall from the "business" part of the blade. Bull sh.t.... SignatureScott in Florida >>>>>>> And yet I get better results every time with Tryco. Go figure. >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Drunk in Florida Nah....works fine, and I'm very picky about the windshield being perfectly clean. I bet Joe's wipers smell better than Barry's plane. In article <65c3ecd2-9845-4350-b68c-4cdbae23011a@a19g2000pra.googlegroups.com>, > I bet Joe's wipers smell better than Barry's plane. I bet barry's plane smells like a cigarette, mixed with a little stale booze. -- > >>> And yet I get better results every time with Tryco. Go figure. > >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > ROFLMAO!!! Dummy, if you wipe them with armorall they will go to hell faster, especially in the sun. -- >> >>> And yet I get better results every time with Tryco. Go figure. >> >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Dummy, if you wipe them with armorall they will go to hell faster, > especially in the sun. Moron. One purpose for Armorall is to preserve rubber. They will NOT deteriorate faster. They will last longer. >>> >>> And yet I get better results every time with Tryco. Go figure. >>> >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >Moron. One purpose for Armorall is to preserve rubber. They will NOT >deteriorate faster. They will last longer. Bull sh.t Armor All sux.... SignatureScott in Florida > >> >>> And yet I get better results every time with Tryco. Go figure. > >> >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Moron. One purpose for Armorall is to preserve rubber. They will NOT > deteriorate faster. They will last longer. that has not been my experience idiot. -- >> >> >>> And yet I get better results every time with Tryco. Go figure. >> >> >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > that has not been my experience idiot. You've never tried it on wipers. Scott in Florida wrote: > > My Tripledge silicone rubber wipers are 15 years old and are as good > > as new, meaning they don't wipe very well. But that's OK because I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > No wiper lasts in the sun.... The ones made from silicone rubber do, and the clear silicone rubber sealant on my solar water panels is 25 years old and has not decayed, except for turning slightly yellow. About the only materials that hold up very well to the sun are metal, glass, silicone rubber, acrylic plastic, EPDM rubber (roofing, rubber garden hoses, and the original Tripledge wipers), and plastic siding and gutters (but not PVC conduit -- it's treated with much less UV inhibitor). >> And yet I get better results every time with Tryco. Go figure. > >My Tripledge silicone rubber wipers are 15 years old and are as good >as new, meaning they don't wipe very well. But that's OK because I >live in sunny Phoenix Where, IIRC, I10 has 30 ft high pillars with signs pointing to them that say something like "flood escape route". You know, for the biennial "Phoenix Creek becomes Phoenix River torrent". > > My Tripledge silicone rubber wipers are 15 years old and are as good > > as new, meaning they don't wipe very well. But that's OK because I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > that say something like "flood escape route". You know, for the > biennial "Phoenix Creek becomes Phoenix River torrent". I'm closer to I-17. There are typically 30-40 days of rain here each year, but about 28 of them are storm days, and we don't have anything close to the drainage capacity that a place like Chicago does. The last big floods here occurred in the 1980s, when 100-year floods occurred two years in a row and wiped out all the bridges across the Salt River, except for one in Tempe built in the 1930s as a New Deal make-work project. >> And yet I get better results every time with Tryco. Go figure. > >My Tripledge silicone rubber wipers are 15 years old and are as good >as new, meaning they don't wipe very well. But that's OK because I >live in sunny Phoenix So the silicone doesn't make a very good blade?? I've had silicone radiator hoses and they last forever. >>> And yet I get better results every time with Tryco. Go figure. >> My Tripledge silicone rubber wipers are 15 years old and are as good [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > So the silicone doesn't make a very good blade?? I've had silicone > radiator hoses and they last forever. I don't know about Tripledges but I've actually *worn out* a set of PIAA silicone blades. I love 'em. Every other blade that I've tried gets hard and won't flip over long before the edge wears out. nate Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel Odd that even silicone blades will hold up 15 years in the PHX sun. Your vehicle must not sit outside like mine here in Tejas, and you certainly don't use them as much as our 40+ inches of rain requires. I was happy to keep my OEM silicone blades in place for 5 years until I noticed the micro-abrasions in the windshield being caused by accumulated particles embedded in the old blades. So, now I replace the blades every 18 months, and hope something breaks the windshield to justify getting a new one without the micro streaks, which are obtrusive driving at night. Vic >>> And yet I get better results every time with Tryco. Go figure. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > So the silicone doesn't make a very good blade?? I've had silicone > radiator hoses and they last forever. >Odd that even silicone blades will hold up 15 years in the PHX sun. Your >vehicle must not sit outside like mine here in Tejas, and you certainly [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >noticed the micro-abrasions in the windshield being caused by accumulated >particles embedded in the old blades. Um, Oooooooops! There's a reason for the annual changes... > So, now I replace the blades every 18 >months, and hope something breaks the windshield to justify getting a new >one without the micro streaks, which are obtrusive driving at night. Get some glass buffing compound and you might be able to polish those scratches out. It's made of Cerium Oxide or some really fine abrasive in a carrier paste, and you use a powered pad buffer and a brand new pad. It's probably cheaper to buy the buffer and the compound once (and stop following gravel trucks that close!) than to pay a lot more every year for low-deductible glass coverage on your car insurance. --<< Bruce >>-- A good reason to clean your wiper blades when you wash the car. You do wash the car don't you? hehehhe Jack >Odd that even silicone blades will hold up 15 years in the PHX sun. Your >vehicle must not sit outside like mine here in Tejas, and you certainly [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> So the silicone doesn't make a very good blade?? I've had silicone >> radiator hoses and they last forever. >Odd that even silicone blades will hold up 15 years in the PHX sun. Which blades that are silicone based are worth buying? > Odd that even silicone blades will hold up 15 years in the PHX sun. Your > vehicle must not sit outside like mine here in Tejas, and you certainly [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Vic You must live in east TX as we have barely received 12" in Austin this year. <g> That said, I too find that frequent replacements the best solution. And even when they have hardly been used, replace 'em on time anyway. That goes for my Hondas and ancient Studebakers equally. JT >> Odd that even silicone blades will hold up 15 years in the PHX sun. Your >> vehicle must not sit outside like mine here in Tejas, and you certainly [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >JT My grand mom gave me her 40 Studebaker coupe. It was my High School car. You could stand on the roof and not dent it.... SignatureScott in Florida >> Odd that even silicone blades will hold up 15 years in the PHX sun. >> Your vehicle must not sit outside like mine here in Tejas, and you [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > JT hey JT, have you found an acceptable replacement for the 12" blades on the earlier cars? Besides the expen$ive Corvette repro rubber that is. nate Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel >hey JT, have you found an acceptable replacement for the 12" blades on >the earlier cars? Besides the expen$ive Corvette repro rubber that is. Nate, I just want to thank you for your recommendation of the PIAA blades. They do, in fact, fit nicely on the BMW even though the PIAA book says they don't make one for that year and model. I am amazed at how much more effective they are than the Bosch and Anco blades, especially when it first begins to rain. --scott Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." >hey JT, have you found an acceptable replacement for the 12" blades on >the earlier cars? Besides the expen$ive Corvette repro rubber that is. There's an inexpensive solution you can use as long as the arms are in good shape and you only need the insert. I do this all the time on wagons and hatches with rear wipers that take a 9" or 10" or 12" refill - my LandCruiser still has the factory wiper refill. (Well, part of it.) Take off your wiper and go in the store, find a cheap regular refill where the rubber has the right profile and holder width. Then buy the 15" refill pair, take it apart, cut the rubber down to the 10" or 12" you need, and slide it into the old holder. If you carefully flex and pop the old insert out in the middle and slide the ends toward the middle to get them loose, and install the new rubber the same way, you won't mess up the old metal holder ring. And if you have several cars and need three or four 8" refills, see if you can get one package of 17" or 18" blades and do both with one. "Don't raise the drawbridge, Lower the river!" --<< Bruce >>-- > > My Tripledge silicone rubber wipers are 15 years old and are as good > > as new, meaning they don't wipe very well. But that's OK because I > > live in sunny Phoenix > Odd that even silicone blades will hold up 15 years in the PHX sun. Your > vehicle must not sit outside like mine here in Tejas, and you certainly [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > months, and hope something breaks the windshield to justify getting a new > one without the micro streaks, which are obtrusive driving at night. TheI park outside almost all the time, but Phoenix gets only about 6" of rain a year. > Even the OEM ones don't seem to last as long these days. > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > every six months, when even many of the best models started to leave > streaks. Haha, are you talking about wiper blades or wiper blade refills? Replacing the blade every six months is a waste of money. >> Even the OEM ones don't seem to last as long these days. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> November issue, and Federal-Mogul's Anco 31 Series model offered one >> of the best values. Has anyone tried above recommendations? |
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