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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / January 2009{OT} Windows vs. Linux
My ASRock 939 (AMD Athlon XP 64-bit) Motherboard had a weird problem with the USB that I could not solve in the BIOS. Whenever I inserted a 'thumb' drive or an external USB drive of any kind the USB mouse would freeze and then the whole system would lock up <3 minutes. If I didn't use a USB drive I could run it for days without error. Wasn't the best overclocker, but I was running a 2.4GHz processor at 2.8 GHz no problem. With more and more USB drives, and the fact you can fit 2/5/8 Gb on one and only 250M on a Zip, I decided it was time for another MoBo. I got a 'refurbished' but factory warranteed Asus board from eBay. I can't remember how I was running it, but I HAVE to OC the processor...that's why I go with AMD! THe new board was working fine until I put in a beefier AGP car (Yeah, AGP...). Then it dropped dead! The guy I got it from said, send it back. He had one more left. Got it, installed the card and then using MEMtest from a Linux CD clocked it to 2.78G, as high as I could. Since this board doesn't have the OC capabitities of even the ASRock board, I had to push the Front Side Bus. I had to reload Linux, so I went with SuSe which I have used successfully in the past. Ubuntu really messed up a couple programs I like with their 64 bit version. System ran fine on Linux, either Ubuntu or SuSe. I booted to XP and the thing started freezing up after 5~15 minutes (I'm hoping it lets me finish this...). I rebooted and found I was running the FSB @ 214MHz! That's about 5% over since I have a 400MHz FSB and 400MHz RAM. But that's 428MHz on the FSB. I 'detuned' it to 205MHz...nope...I'm now running at the flat 200 MHz and it's running ok (holding my breath...) I noticed this with my AMD Athlon 2200+ (32 bit/400MHZ FSB). I could run the thing on SuSe at 2.3 GHz (It was set for a clock of 1.8GHz) and at that time I was running Windows 2000 for Windows, OK, no problem. When I loaded XP it started crashing. Linux and Win2K can handle the OC, XP can't. I booted to Win2K last night and ran the thing for an hour @ 205MHz. Hmmmm....wonder why it won't OC very well with XP? BTW, for the techies reading this, yes, I did bump the V+s a little... ;) > My ASRock 939 (AMD Athlon XP 64-bit) Motherboard had a weird problem with > the USB that I could not solve in the BIOS. Whenever I inserted a 'thumb' [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > BTW, for the techies reading this, yes, I did bump the V+s a little... ;) Tell me what you think of this, I've been thinking about getting it. I'd be using winxp home for the OS. http://directron.com/yearendcombo1.html >> My ASRock 939 (AMD Athlon XP 64-bit) Motherboard had a weird problem >> with the USB that I could not solve in the BIOS. Whenever I inserted a [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > I'd be using winxp home for the OS. > http://directron.com/yearendcombo1.html Interesting. My experience with MSi goes back a long ways, to the early 90's. We sold them but didn't use them a lot because Asus boards were a few dollars more and were absolutely bulletproof. Of course, we did get *one* bad Asus board...the one I bought for myself. What I like about this board is it supports the AM2 sockets CPUs and has an IDE interface! I have three different OSes on different drives and they are all EIDE. Most boards supporting the AM2 chip are all SATA, which means upgrading the board, processor, memory and the drives as well. This board would let me keep my EIDE drives...but not my AGP card that I just bought. But it was only $39 so it's no great loss. I'm looking through Google and I'm not seeing any good reviews on this board. Of course, I'm not seeing any *BAD* ones, either! If you want to keep your IDE drives it looks OK. The boards I have had the best luck with (personally...I have not been having good luck with Asus based boards in my own systems...) are DFI and the one I had before the DFI boards, so long ago I can't remember. The reason I go with AMD is the OC abilities, although AMD is fighting that because people are buying the low end processors and clocking the daylights out of them. A lot of people are pissed at AMD because they started locking the processors a few years ago limiting the clocking abilities. THere are ways to defeat this but I'm not about to mess up a $125+ processor to gain a little speed. I'd look at the OC capabilities first, but if you have been following my thinking throughout this group you'll soon realize I just can't leave things the way they're supposed to be! :) This is a good deal, however. You get the chip, the RAM and the CPU for $140. Hmmmm.... Fat Moe wrote to Hachiroku: > Tell me what you think of this, I've been thinking about getting it. > I'd be using winxp home for the OS. > http://directron.com/yearendcombo1.html I think Fry's has a slightly better deal with an $80 Athlon 5600+: http://cdn.travidia.com/rop-sub/24841532 But avoid that $23 AR Patriot RAM. Never buy memory modules with heatsinks on them, that require nonstandard voltage (DDR2 should work fine at 1.8V), or that have UTT RAM chips on them. This slightly cheaper memory is better: $20 AR 2x2G PC6400 Crucial RAM: http://cdn.travidia.com/rop-sub/24833836 $30 AR Corsair 16GB USB flash drive: http://cdn.travidia.com/rop-sub/24841548 or $30 AR 16GB combos of Kingston USB flash drives: http://cdn.travidia.com/rop-sub/24833813 Fry's ads: http://newspaperads.mercurynews.com > Fat Moe wrote to Hachiroku: > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Fry's ads: http://newspaperads.mercurynews.com Oh man, this is why I spend hours looking at computer parts and never get around to piecing one together, at least not for a year now. All I want is a good solid computer with two or three PCI slots, USB a decent processor and I'm happy. I run multiple monitors for the markets and don't need a bad a.s gaming machine. I could use another mainboard with AGP X8 but those are hard to find any more. The one I'm using right now came from a garage sale, needed a power supply and hard drive and it's as powerful as anything I need. > I could use another mainboard with > AGP X8 but those are hard to find any more. Yeah...AGP 8x is fine for photography and the very few games I do bother with. And a PATA interface, since I don't want to spend money on new drives I don't need. > BTW, for the techies reading this, yes, I did bump the V+s a little... ;) That could be your problem, but did you try using a different USB port with the mouse and other devices? I have one PC that is pretty fussy in that regard. >> BTW, for the techies reading this, yes, I did bump the V+s a little... >> ;) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I have one PC that is pretty fussy in that regard. I...I've tried everything. I am now back on Linux at 214MHz FSB speed....so far no crashes... Of course, this is also with my 'new' video card installed. It was a BITCH to get working in accelerated mode under Linux; Windows I just loaded the driver and off we went. It wasn't crashing before installing the driver, however. I was using an older version of the driver before made for an older Diamond card using the ATi Radeon controller...hmmm...I still have that driver hanging around. \It wasn't crashing before installing the driver, however. I was using an > older version of the driver before made for an older Diamond card using > the ATi Radeon controller...hmmm...I still have that driver hanging > around. I have had numerous experiences when newer drivers were the fault. Maybe yours? \It > wasn't crashing before installing the driver, however. I was using an >> older version of the driver before made for an older Diamond card using [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I have had numerous experiences when newer drivers were the fault. Maybe > yours? That seems to be it. Since that last post I switched to Linux and the system has been up for >2 hours, with the FSB @ 214MHz (428 double-pumped) running I think the latest Linux driver from ATi. Interesting....they give far more warnings about their Linux driver than their Windoze driver... I also have a Logitech Marble Mouse USB; it took DAYS to get the scroll function working in Linux, while with Windows all I had to do was load Logitech's driver. But the scroll function in Windows is jerky, and under Linux it scrolls very smoothly. > \It > > wasn't crashing before installing the driver, however. I was using an [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Logitech's driver. But the scroll function in Windows is jerky, and under > Linux it scrolls very smoothly. Buy a plug-n-play Mac, then you can run windoz or the far superior OSX or if you so desire, bring up the terminal and play around with UNIX. So you have three OS's in one box.  Signature"It's deja vu all over again" Yogi Berra >> > On 2009-01-05 15:20:35 -0800, Hachiroku ãfãfãfã,¯ <Trueno@e86.GTS> >> > said: [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > if you so desire, bring up the terminal and play around with UNIX. So > you have three OS's in one box. I still state that Mac products are grossly overpriced. It won't be me who further enriches Apple shareholders. > >> > On 2009-01-05 15:20:35 -0800, Hachiroku ãfãfãfã,¯ <Trueno@e86.GTS> > >> > said: [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > I still state that Mac products are grossly overpriced. It won't be me who > further enriches Apple shareholders. If you build your own you can get by cheaper. If you buy an equally equipped Dell, no. Remember, equally equipped Dell. I purchased a off brand windows machine for $200 during a Christmas sale, new, no monitor, no memory. I don't trust my photos or email with it but I do use it for some very special projects and it works good for that. Signature"It's deja vu all over again" Yogi Berra >> >> > On 2009-01-05 15:20:35 -0800, Hachiroku ãfãfãfã,¯ >> >> > <Trueno@e86.GTS> [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > it but I do use it for some very special projects and it works good for > that. I just do regular backups onto a USB thumb drive (flash drive), rotating 3 of them. No need to enrich Jobs to do that. 99% of users do NOT need 4 gig memory or 1 TB hard drives or non on board graphics. Really. Or state of the art DVD burning capability. E-mail can be done just fine on the cheapest of machines. I erase mine ASAP, only keeping copies until the desired response is received. > "It's deja vu all over again" > Yogi Berra > >> >> > On 2009-01-05 15:20:35 -0800, Hachiroku ãfãfãfã,¯ > >> >> > <Trueno@e86.GTS> [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > machines. I erase mine ASAP, only keeping copies > until the desired response is received. I back up every hour, every day and every week with two dedicated external backup HD. Plus, my photos I also back up to DVD at irregular times. Apple puts out quality hardware and software, unlike Microsoft which is a software company, Apple is a hardware and software company. I have 7 Gb. of ram, I could show you the difference if you were here enjoying a beer, but you'll just have to take my word for it. I'm willing to pay for quality, but not willing to pay for junk no matter how cheap. > > "It's deja vu all over again" > > Yogi Berra Signature"It's deja vu all over again" Yogi Berra >> I just do regular backups onto a USB thumb drive (flash drive), rotating 3 >> of them. No need to enrich Jobs to do that. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > times. Apple puts out quality hardware and software, unlike Microsoft > which is a software company, Apple is a hardware and software company. This actually did a lot of good. They integrated a lot of Linux into the Apple OS and came up with OSX. Since they tell the hardware manufacturers how to make things work with Apple, you actually get a factory supported driver that *WORKS* with OSX instead of a driver written by some yahoo in Yugoslavia that happened to have a similar piece of hardware to what you have, so it /might/ work after 10 attempts to load the driver...maybe. Of course, all the functions might not quite be there... On the other hand, I have actually had some hardware work *better* in Linux than in Windows, but that's rare. Even some of the companies are getting into the act. I have a Sound Blaster X-Fi and had to get the drivers from Creative, and installation was two command lines. And since it was compiled on my computer, it *works* on my computer. ATi tries... Perhaps an nVidia video for my next machine... > >> I just do regular backups onto a USB thumb drive (flash drive), rotating 3 > >> of them. No need to enrich Jobs to do that. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > This actually did a lot of good. They integrated *UNIX* into the Apple OS and came up with OSX *GUI*. > Since they tell the hardware manufacturers how to make things work with > Apple, you actually get a factory supported driver that *WORKS* with OSX [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Perhaps an nVidia video for my next machine... Signature"It's deja vu all over again" Yogi Berra >> > I back up every hour, every day and every week with two dedicated >> > external backup HD. Plus, my photos I also back up to DVD at irregular [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > They integrated *UNIX* into the Apple OS and came up with OSX *GUI*. Actually, leaning heavily on Free BSD, probably the most unix like of distributions. I have to massage Ubuntu and SuSe enough as it is, never mind from scratch like Free BSD... >> \It >> > wasn't crashing before installing the driver, however. I was using an [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > if you so desire, bring up the terminal and play around with UNIX. So > you have three OS's in one box. I build some pretty screaming machines for <$300. If I can get a motherboard w/AGP socket I can do my next one for <$200... > My ASRock 939 (AMD Athlon XP 64-bit) Motherboard had a weird problem with > the USB that I could not solve in the BIOS. Whenever I inserted a 'thumb' [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > BTW, for the techies reading this, yes, I did bump the V+s a little... ;) Hmmm, you are worse than me and the stupid light bulb! SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >> Hmmmm....wonder why it won't OC very well with XP? >> >> BTW, for the techies reading this, yes, I did bump the V+s a little... >> > Hmmm, you are worse than me and the stupid light bulb! I think it has something to do with Obsessive/Compulsive... >>> Hmmmm....wonder why it won't OC very well with XP? >>> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I think it has something to do with Obsessive/Compulsive... That's what my wife keeps telling me! SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >>>> Hmmmm....wonder why it won't OC very well with XP? >>>> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> > That's what my wife keeps telling me! Great minds! Why do you think I have all these cars?!?!? >>>>> Hmmmm....wonder why it won't OC very well with XP? >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Great minds! Why do you think I have all these cars?!?!? LOL! The missus got me a new shop vac for Christmas so I wouldn't attempt to repair the crack in the motor housing of my 20 year old one. My son said that the brake warning light has been coming on intermittently when the car is cold or when you go around corners. Gee, I wonder what that could be a sign of, just as the weather turns cold and it starts to snow? SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >>>>>> Hmmmm....wonder why it won't OC very well with XP? >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > LOL! The missus got me a new shop vac for Christmas so I wouldn't attempt > to repair the crack in the motor housing of my 20 year old one. Now you see why I'm not married any more! > My son said that the brake warning light has been coming on intermittently > when the car is cold or when you go around corners. Gee, I wonder what that > could be a sign of, just as the weather turns cold and it starts to snow? Hmmm...in my older Toyotas the brake light would come on in the cold because of the brake handle. I'm not following the going around corners part. Low brake fluid because of contraction in the cold? <snipped> >> My son said that the brake warning light has been coming on >> intermittently [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > because of the brake handle. I'm not following the going around corners > part. Low brake fluid because of contraction in the cold? I haven't checked the brake fluid yet, but I'd bet that the fluid level is right at the "min" mark, and when it is cold, it is below the min mark. After a few brake applications, the fluid warms up enough to move above the min mark and extinguish the light, but when going around corners, the fluid sloshes enough for the float to drop and the light to come on. Of course, the fluid level is low because the pads are worn and the pistons have to extend out of the caliper farther. Also, brake fluid shouldn't expand in volume that much when it warms up, but since it is, that is a clue that the fluid has picked up some moisture and the moisture in the fluid is causing the greater expansion and contraction. I'm guessing that a front and rear brake job and brake fluid flush are on the agenda this weekend. Fortunately, not only do I happen to have the front and rear pads in stock in the garage, I found them! I must have purchased them a while back and not needed them. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > I'm guessing that a front and rear brake job and brake fluid flush are on > the agenda this weekend. Fortunately, not only do I happen to have the > front and rear pads in stock in the garage, I found them! I must have > purchased them a while back and not needed them. Why am I thinking "Escort"? >> I'm guessing that a front and rear brake job and brake fluid flush are on >> the agenda this weekend. Fortunately, not only do I happen to have the >> front and rear pads in stock in the garage, I found them! I must have >> purchased them a while back and not needed them. > > Why am I thinking "Escort"? >> I'm guessing that a front and rear brake job and brake fluid flush are on >> the agenda this weekend. Fortunately, not only do I happen to have the >> front and rear pads in stock in the garage, I found them! I must have >> purchased them a while back and not needed them. > > Why am I thinking "Escort"? The '97 Avalon needs the brake work. The Escort has a broken rear spring - the bottom 1/4 turn of the spring snapped off and the top part of the spring extended down and seated itself. Spring replacement is going to wait until the spring (no pun intended). SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > The Escort has a broken rear spring Why don't I find this surprising? In all fairness, if I couldn't find a used Corolla I'd be looking for an Escort. We had some pretty nice Escort/Escort wagons when I was selling cars. > - the bottom 1/4 turn of the spring > snapped off and the top part of the spring extended down and seated itself. > Spring replacement is going to wait until the spring (no pun intended). A guy I know just replaced all his bushings in his... with hockey pucks... $.99 each. Not a bad price for bushings! >> The Escort has a broken rear spring > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > $.99 each. Not a bad price for bushings! I wasn't actually looking for the Escort, it kind of found us. In the year that we've had it, the Escort has not been that bad, other than having have the transmission rebuilt. I've replaced the battery, tires, exhaust, a bunch of light bulbs, done some oil changes, and changed the transmission fluid. It will need rear struts and springs and it seems like there is a lot of slop in the front suspension, but the car works as transportation for my son for now. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > My ASRock 939 (AMD Athlon XP 64-bit) Motherboard had a weird problem with > the USB that I could not solve in the BIOS. Whenever I inserted a 'thumb' > drive or an external USB drive of any kind the USB mouse would freeze and > then the whole system would lock up <3 minutes. If I didn't use a USB > drive I could run it for days without error. Is it based on an NVidia chipset? There was a problem like that with at last one GeForce or NForce chipset, and the solution was mentioned in a mobo forum, maybe NVidia's. > I got a 'refurbished' but factory warranteed Asus board from eBay. I can't > remember how I was running it, but I HAVE to OC the processor...that's why [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > doesn't have the OC capabitities of even the ASRock board, I had to push > the Front Side Bus. > I noticed this with my AMD Athlon 2200+ (32 bit/400MHZ FSB). I could run > the thing on SuSe at 2.3 GHz (It was set for a clock of 1.8GHz) and at [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Hmmmm....wonder why it won't OC very well with XP? Maybe Windows is using parts of the memory that Linux isn't using or isn't using nearly as much? Are you using UTT or in-house sliced & diced RAM chips? If the power supply voltages all measure OK, I'd check the voltage regulators on the mobo, preferrably with an oscilloscope, for ripple. I used to think that I didn't have to worry about capacitors unless they were in switching mode voltage regulators, but I've seen lots of failures with caps connected to linear regulators (most AGP, PCI-e, and DIMM regulators are linear) or even used just for general bypass. In fact with my Asrock K7VT4A, no other caps failed -- 5-6 bulged or ruptured, all the rest showed high ESR. However they were also the only Chinese brand caps on the board (Ltec, supposedly not that bad, according to BadCaps.net). Some reports say that installing higher quality capacitors (Japanese, maybe rated for lower ESR than the originals) or adding them where they were left out, may improve overclocking. > In fact with > my Asrock K7VT4A, no other caps failed -- 5-6 bulged or ruptured, all the > rest showed high ESR I had a Soyo for this vintage. Luckily I escaped the cap problem. The board just quit a few weeks ago. I think it took the CPU with it... My ASRock Socket 939 only had the nasty habit of freezing with USB drives. However, it would work with my cameras and my cell phones! I don't get it... I may buy another 64 bit XP and set it up as a spare. > > In fact with my Asrock K7VT4A, no other caps failed -- 5-6 > > bulged or ruptured, all the rest showed high ESR > > I had a Soyo for this vintage. Luckily I escaped the cap problem. The > board just quit a few weeks ago. I think it took the CPU with it... How do you know the cap problem didn't cause it to finally die? Are you saying the CPU doesn't work in other mobos? > My ASRock Socket 939 only had the nasty habit of freezing with USB drives. > However, it would work with my cameras and my cell phones! I don't get it... > > I may buy another 64 bit XP and set it up as a spare. How about the universal solution to USB problems, an NEC-based USB card? Apparently problems with ATI Crossfire and USB are more serious than I thought, especially with the older Crossfire chipsets. >> > In fact with my Asrock K7VT4A, no other caps failed -- 5-6 >> > bulged or ruptured, all the rest showed high ESR [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > How do you know the cap problem didn't cause it to finally die? Are > you saying the CPU doesn't work in other mobos? It did. I removed it from another system Sunday. Should have let it be... >> My ASRock Socket 939 only had the nasty habit of freezing with USB drives. >> However, it would work with my cameras and my cell phones! I don't get it... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > card? Apparently problems with ATI Crossfire and USB are more serious > than I thought, especially with the older Crossfire chipsets. Hmmmm...That would make the ASRock board work again. I think I had another complaint with it, but can't remember what. Of course, there's always this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813136058 http://www.outletpc.com/c1470.html or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103272 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104037 $250 for a pretty screaming machine. I have actually had better luck with the DFI motherboards than Asus, believe it or not. But, they aren't quite the bargain they were 10 years ago. > > How about the universal solution to USB problems, an NEC-based USB > > card? Apparently problems with ATI Crossfire and USB are more serious [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > the DFI motherboards than Asus, believe it or not. But, they aren't quite > the bargain they were 10 years ago. Today only: Phenom X4 9750 & ECS GeForce 6100PM-M2 mobo, $130: http://cdn.travidia.com/rop-sub/24855882 Phenom X3 8450 & ECS GeForce 6100PM-M2 mobo, $80: http://cdn.travidia.com/rop-sub/24848944 4GB PC6400 Crucial memory: http://cdn.travidia.com/rop-sub/24848937 > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104037 You might want to skip that memory because it's meant to run at 2.2v, meaning it's definitely overclocked or failed at normal voltage because no DDR2 chips require more than 1.8v to meet all specs. Kingston is pretty notorious for selling memory modules that legitimate companies, like Samsung, would toss. >> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104037 > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Kingston is pretty notorious for selling memory modules that > legitimate companies, like Samsung, would toss. Wow. Kingston used to be the best. Now, PNY has been known to use 'refurbished' memory chips. Back when they first came out we wouldn't touch them. > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104037 > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Now, PNY has been known to use 'refurbished' memory chips. > Back when they first came out we wouldn't touch them. Are those the chips marked PNY or Bravo? I bought a bunch of 512MB PC3200 modules with such chips, and all tested fine, even when overclocked, unlike over 2 out of 3 Kingston 512MB PC3200 modules. But a few years earlier, when PC133 was the most common memory, PNY was one of the last companies to stick with name brand chips, and a lot of their 256MB and 512MB modules were made by Samsung. BTW I've been told if you get a bad Kingston and talk in detail about the defect with one of their level 2 techs, you'll likely be sent a replacement that's a lot better than their regular modules. >> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104037 >> > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > defect with one of their level 2 techs, you'll likely be sent a > replacement that's a lot better than their regular modules. I had some HyperX that went bad. They're only 256M. I sent Kingston an email and they gave me an address to send them back. |
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