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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / March 2009

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{OT} Good-bye  Rick Wagoner

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Fat Moe - 30 Mar 2009 00:24 GMT
And away goes Icky Ricky.
Conscience - 30 Mar 2009 00:49 GMT
> And away goes Icky Ricky.

My heart bleeds for the poor guy.
Jeff - 30 Mar 2009 01:36 GMT
> > And away goes Icky Ricky.
>
> My heart bleeds for the poor guy.

I feel sorry for all the folks who worked at the corner stores,
restaurants, and other stores where the GM employees and the employees
of their suppliers used to buy snacks when they had a job as well as
for the GM and supplier employees themselves.

Rick Wagoner, on the other hand, should have enough money so that he
doesn't need to work another day in his life. I don't know enough
about the finances and management of the company itself to say how
much Rick Wagoner is responsible for GM's present troubles.

I also think that the UAW is partly responsible for GM's problems.

Jeff
Conscience - 30 Mar 2009 03:05 GMT
>>> And away goes Icky Ricky.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> of their suppliers used to buy snacks when they had a job as well as
> for the GM and supplier employees themselves.

I don't.  Not a bit.  They're the idiots who voted to keep this corrupt
organization in place to oversee their financial future.

> Rick Wagoner, on the other hand, should have enough money so that he
> doesn't need to work another day in his life. I don't know enough
> about the finances and management of the company itself to say how
> much Rick Wagoner is responsible for GM's present troubles.

Results speak for themselves.

> I also think that the UAW is partly responsible for GM's problems.

How long have you had this talent for understatement?
Scott  in  Florida - 30 Mar 2009 12:49 GMT
>I also think that the UAW is partly responsible for GM's problems.
>
>Jeff

On that we agree....

Signature


Scott in Florida

larry moe 'n curly - 30 Mar 2009 14:15 GMT
> > And away goes Icky Ricky.
>
> My heart bleeds for the poor guy.

Rick Wagoner, the anti-Iacocca.
Conscience - 30 Mar 2009 14:49 GMT
>>> And away goes Icky Ricky.
>>
>> My heart bleeds for the poor guy.
>
> Rick Wagoner, the anti-Iacocca.

We should have let Chrysler die a long time ago.
dbu' - 30 Mar 2009 00:51 GMT
> And away goes Icky Ricky.

Yeah, and away goes GM.  Bye-bye GM, it was a nice ride while you had
the market years ago.
Signature


"It's deja vu all over again"
Yogi Berra

badgolferman - 30 Mar 2009 03:40 GMT
> And away goes Icky Ricky.

I'm no fan of this fellow but this is just wrong.  Having the
government telling the CEO of a company he's fired doesn't sit well
with me, no matter how bad he may have performed his job.  That
distinction should belong to the board of directors and shareholders.
I guess this is what happens when socialism and nationalization is
embraced by the people.  Who's going to be next?
Fat Moe - 30 Mar 2009 07:06 GMT
>> And away goes Icky Ricky.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> I guess this is what happens when socialism and nationalization is
> embraced by the people.  Who's going to be next?

The borrower becomes slave to the lender, unless your AIG then it's the
other way around.
SMS - 30 Mar 2009 15:27 GMT
> The borrower becomes slave to the lender, unless your AIG then it's the
> other way around.

Obama can't sell additional bail out money to the country if Wagoner
remains. It's all posturing. GM will get more money in the end.

And for Mr. Obama and his cabinet...you don't have to keep using the "i"
word. Everyone in the U.S. knows that it was W and the Republicans that
got us into this horrendous situation, so you don't have to keep
reminding everyone that you inherited the problems.
Conscience - 30 Mar 2009 15:55 GMT
>> The borrower becomes slave to the lender, unless your AIG then it's the
>> other way around.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> that got us into this horrendous situation, so you don't have to keep
> reminding everyone that you inherited the problems.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/26793903/the_big_takeover
C. E. White - 30 Mar 2009 15:25 GMT
>> And away goes Icky Ricky.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> I guess this is what happens when socialism and nationalization is
> embraced by the people.  Who's going to be next?

I disagree. The US Government is soon to be GMs biggest lender. If
instead of the Government, a big bank had loaned GM billions, they
certainly would have been within their rights to ask Wagoner to resign
as a condition of the loan. Same applies to the US Government.
Recently when Toyota started down the tubes, the CEO was also asked to
resign.  In both cases it is justified.

Many US Boards of Directors are a joke. They are made up of people
with a similar mind set and in many cases the same people are on
boards for multiple companies. There is way too much of a "I'll
scratch your back if you scratch mine" atttitude among US Boards of
Directors. Stockholder have essentially given complete control of the
companies over to the the top management of the company. If things
worked  like they should, the owners of GM (i.e. the Stockholders)
would have dumped Wagner months/years ago.

This is one area where Ford has an advantage over GM. The Ford family
still controls Ford. They realized the prior CEO was going the wrong
way and pulled the plug on him. They were able to go out and look for
the best available CEO. In theory GM's board could do this as well,
but in fact, they are so inbred they can't see their own shortcomings
and they keep hiring clones of the last CEO. Maybe the Government will
shake up this process. Back in the first half of the last century when
GM almost went bankrupt, the DuPont family bailed out GM. The first
thing they did was force out Durant (creator of GM), and installed
Alfred Sloan - the CEO that really got GM going. Maybe history will
repeat this time.

Ed
badgolferman - 30 Mar 2009 15:39 GMT
>>>And away goes Icky Ricky.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
>Ed

What you say has some merit regarding the board but I don't think the
government should have become the primary shareholder of GM in the
first place and they definitely are the worst ones to be choosing who
should run the company.  They have already shown how well bureaucrats
are at running anything.
C. E. White - 30 Mar 2009 15:48 GMT
>>>>And away goes Icky Ricky.
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
> bureaucrats
> are at running anything.

And most of the people runnig GM aren't burecrats? The replacement has
already been announced - Fritz Henderson. Mr Henderson is another old
GM hand and was already in line to repalce Mr. Wagoner. The goverment
just forced the change sooner. I expect Mr. Henderson won't last long.
The GM Board is going through a major shake-up. I imagine as soon as
things settle down, they'll shop around for an external repalcement.

Ed
Conscience - 30 Mar 2009 15:54 GMT
> Many US Boards of Directors are a joke. They are made up of people
> with a similar mind set and in many cases the same people are on
> boards for multiple companies. There is way too much of a "I'll
> scratch your back if you scratch mine" atttitude among US Boards of
> Directors. Stockholder have essentially given complete control of the
> companies over to the the top management of the company.

http://www.icahnreport.com/report/2008/10/compensation-co.html

http://www.icahnreport.com/report/2008/06/about-ceos.html
 
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