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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / August 2005Calculate savings on gas driving Prius
Given: MPM (miles per month), $PG (dollars per gallon), MPG1 (previous miles per gallon), MPG2 (new miles per gallon) Find: SAV (savings in $ per month) SAV = MPM x $PG x (1 / MPG1 - 1 / MPG2) If you have an HP17BII calculator, you can enter the equation as written in "SOLVE" mode and the 5 quantities will label 5 top-row keys. Then you can input any 4 quantities (by pressing the numbers and then the labeled key for each) and pressing the 5th labeled key will display the calculated value. Sample Calculation: MPM = 1400, $PG = 3, MPG1 = 15, MPG2 = 55 SAV = 203.64 So this says the SUV I drive 30 miles to work and back 5 days a week, and average 50 miles on weekends costs me $203.64 a month more than it would if I drove a Prius. In a year the Prius would save me $2443.64 on my gas bill. If the trade-in on my SUV is $15,000, I would break even in 4.09 years. If the price of gas goes up, I would break even sooner - in fact if over the next few years the price of gas averages $4/gal, the break-even time would be 3.07 years. This does not account for any variation in trade-in value at different car dealerships so I assume Toyota allows the same as any other make, dropping it out of the calculation. If you think rewarding Toyota the $10,000 difference for their development of this hybrid system is better than paying it to Shell Oil and adding to the world's pollution for 4 years, it should be an easy choice. > Given: MPM (miles per month), $PG (dollars per gallon), MPG1 (previous > miles [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > of this hybrid system is better than paying it to Shell Oil and adding to > the world's pollution for 4 years, it should be an easy choice. This is the most straightforward and logical calculation I've seen for calculating the payback period for a hybrid. I've heard reports of Prius fuel economy as low as 45 MPG, which plugged into my HP 17B II (with a new formula) comes out to a monthly savings of $186.67, or a 4-1/2 year payback if the difference is $10,000. If you keep the car for 10 years, and assuming the batteries last for 10 years, then you're ahead of the game by almost $10,000.  SignatureRay O correct the return address punctuation to reply >> Given: MPM (miles per month), $PG (dollars per gallon), MPG1 (previous >> miles [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > the car for 10 years, and assuming the batteries last for 10 years, then > you're ahead of the game by almost $10,000. I still refuse to pay for that damned car LOL Seriously, though, we do very little driving on the whole, so I don't think it would be a bargain for us. Natalie >>> Given: MPM (miles per month), $PG (dollars per gallon), MPG1 (previous >>> miles [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > Natalie The same math applies when comparing an Echo or XA or any 2 vehicles. The payback is a lot quicker with a conventional fuel-efficient car. SignatureRay O correct the return address punctuation to reply :: I still refuse to pay for that damned car LOL Seriously, though, we :: do very little driving on the whole, so I don't think it would be a :: bargain for us. :: :: Natalie Yes, but it will get cheaper. At least I seriously hope so, because I want one and I'm not paying *that* for it either! The three to five thousand dollar premium one pays to buy a hybrid will buy ALL of ones fuel for three or four years. To say nothing of three to five thousand dollar premium one must pay to replace the battery pack, at some point down the road, if they keep the vehicle long enough in an effort to recover the original premium they pay to purchase the vehicle. Seems to me one can not benefit financially buying a hybrid. The best one can do is help save the planet, if that is their desire > :: I still refuse to pay for that damned car LOL Seriously, though, we > :: do very little driving on the whole, so I don't think it would be a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Yes, but it will get cheaper. At least I seriously hope so, because I want > one and I'm not paying *that* for it either! > The three to five thousand dollar premium one pays to buy a hybrid will buy > ALL of ones fuel for three or four years. To say nothing of three to five [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Seems to me one can not benefit financially buying a hybrid. The best one > can do is help save the planet, if that is their desire The planet don't need any saving. Otherwise I agree totally in your assessment of the hybrid cars. > > :: I still refuse to pay for that damned car LOL Seriously, though, we > > :: do very little driving on the whole, so I don't think it would be a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Yes, but it will get cheaper. At least I seriously hope so, because I want > > one and I'm not paying *that* for it either! Signature snip >The planet don't need any saving. Otherwise I agree totally in your >assessment of the hybrid cars. I agree, Mankind is pretty presumptuous if he thinks that he can damage Mother Nature. He may very well damage mankind's environment faster that he can evolve to protect himself from the results of his pollution but 'Damage the earth itself'?, nah...we haven't gotten smart enough yet to devise any explosive force large enough to destroy or cause the earth to destroy itself physically. I really think that the dangers that have threatened us in the past, and that we have overpowered, (diseases mostly) are just the 'lemming effect' that most species encounter over their span. The ozone depletion (and the resultant increase in cancer) is just the latest threat that we may (or not) beat. I suspect that we'll beat this and even cancer itself sometime soon. This leads to the very real possibly (unless we get smarter still) and become able to effectively control our birthrate enough to prevent our present upward trend. The possibility of 'screwing ourselves out of a place at the table' is pretty scary. -- -Gord. (use gordon in email) > snip >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > -Gord. > (use gordon in email) I notice that you are Canadian, and you seem to post late in the evening. Does that mean you are in BC? (To those from Rio Linda reading this thread: BC stands for British Columbia, not Baja California.) Charles of Kankakee >> snip >>> [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > >Charles of Kankakee No Charles, just the opposite actually, about as opposite as you can get!...I'm on PEI, (Prince Edward Island) on the East coast. -- -Gord. (use gordon in email) >>> snip >>>> [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > -Gord. > (use gordon in email) So you must be at lunch now? (11:10) Charles of Kankakee snip >>>I notice that you are Canadian, and you seem to post late in the evening. >>>Does that mean you are in BC? (To those from Rio Linda reading this [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Charles of Kankakee Well, yeah, I was, at 11:10 (nearly 6 hours ago now) it's 17:40 now. -- -Gord. (use gordon in email) > snip >>>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > -Gord. > (use gordon in email) I am at 16:23, so it must have been over half an hour since you posted it. It is 21:23 GMT Charles "" wrote: > snip > > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > -Gord. > (use gordon in email) Prius is so you will feel better about driving. Thats it. you wont save money, you wont get smarter, you will prob attract a bunch of people who smell like pine tree and B.O. Its not any more comfy, more loaded, or better in any way (besides the use of the car pool lane in select citys), than any other SIMILAR car. I could compare a 2006 lincoln navagator to my kids tricycle and say that the trike is much better.. it gets a million + miles to a gallon, I’d like to see the prius touch that :roll: sure some people may like the way it handles or the smooth ride, but some people prefer chevy to ford, or the geo prism to the toyota corrola (same exact car, shy some trim) that doesnt mean that one car is better, just better for you. Nobody wants to feel they didnt think something through all the way, so you get a bunch of people defending the prius to the death. and the people who did think it through are tired of getting mocked for there choice. If you wanna save money, dont get a prius. if you want a prius, for heavens sake get one. > "" wrote: > > Dbu'' <nttspam@s2-pc.om> wrote: > > snip > > > <Snipperoo> > If you wanna save money, dont get a prius. if you want a prius, for > heavens sake get one. Let's boil this down to the one sentient statement, the one above. This is exactly it. Actually, you will save SOME gas, but not enough to cover the cost of the car. But, some like the Prius. Buying the Prius for the sake of driving a car you like is the reason to buy it. Unfortunately a lot of greenies don't do enough research to see that they really aren't saving anything but making a statement. Oh well... SignatureIt doesn't take a genius to know the difference between chicken sh.t and chicken salad... >> "" wrote: >> > Dbu'' <nttspam@s2-pc.om> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Unfortunately a lot of greenies don't do enough research to see that they > really aren't saving anything but making a statement. Oh well... They didn't figure it out back when GM was selling electric cars, either, that the electricity had to come from 'Somewhere'. Charles of Kankakee >>> If you wanna save money, dont get a prius. if you want a prius, for >>> heavens sake get one. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >They didn't figure it out back when GM was selling electric cars, either, >that the electricity had to come from 'Somewhere'. Yes - but when electric cars were all the rage, the Utilities were giving away the electricity effectively 'for free' for the chargers. Or they were writing it off against a public subsidy... I installed a few public charge stations (small-town City Hall that had an electric RAV-4) and the Edison instructions were to tap in before the meter and main, and use a fused disconnect going straight to the charging station. I assume (yes, dangerous...) that they had the same basic thing for residential charging stations. --<< Bruce >>-- SignatureBruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700 5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545 Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net. >>>> If you wanna save money, dont get a prius. if you want a prius, for >>>> heavens sake get one. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > --<< Bruce >>-- Yes, but you knew they wouldn't have continued that forever. And it does cost in terms of energy consumed to produce the electricity that goes into the battery, which is what they weren't exactly thinking about when they were doing this in the 70's and 80's. Charles of Kankakee ::: Wickeddoll® wrote: ::::: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] ::: Yes, but it will get cheaper. At least I seriously hope so, because ::: I want one and I'm not paying *that* for it either! :: The three to five thousand dollar premium one pays to buy a hybrid :: will buy ALL of ones fuel for three or four years. To say nothing [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] :: Seems to me one can not benefit financially buying a hybrid. The :: best one can do is help save the planet, if that is their desire I think that may have been what I said. However, unlike some of the other posters here, I do think the planet is in need of a little help. John. > ::: Wickeddoll® wrote: > ::::: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > John. I care too, but just can't make *that* leap. I recycle every possible consumable, but paying that outrageous price for that tiny car chafes my sense of duty to the planet. It's preposterous to have to pay Toyota's outrageous price for a car that they know is merely an idealistic toy for the tree-hugging set. Natalie >I care too, but just can't make *that* leap. I recycle every possible >consumable, but paying that outrageous price for that tiny car chafes my >sense of duty to the planet. It's preposterous to have to pay Toyota's >outrageous price Why do you call the price "outrageous"? Hybrids are more expensive to make than regular cars. > for a car that they know is merely an idealistic toy for the >tree-hugging set. I disagree with your assessment that the Prius is merely "an idealistic toy for the tree-hugging set". Certainly, it doesn't make sense for most people today, but they have to start somewhere. It fills a niche in the market, and gets volume manufacturing started. >>I care too, but just can't make *that* leap. I recycle every possible >>consumable, but paying that outrageous price for that tiny car chafes my [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > sense for most people today, but they have to start somewhere. It > fills a niche in the market, and gets volume manufacturing started. I agree with Hachi's assessment of the Prius - take a look in this thread for it. I agree that something needs to be done, but I don't see the Prius as a valid solution. Natalie >>>I care too, but just can't make *that* leap. I recycle every possible >>>consumable, but paying that outrageous price for that tiny car chafes my [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > for it. I agree that something needs to be done, but I don't see the > Prius as a valid solution. The Prius will only pan out for inner-city or metropolitan area commuters. The batteries only work in stop 'n go traffic where most of the time is spent stopped. In these cases, the batteries can move the car a very long way without running the engine, or running the engine at idle while the car moves along at 20 mph, or so. For those that live in the outlying areas and spend most of their time motoring along at 60+ mph, the Prius will not give them very much savings at all. >The Prius will only pan out for inner-city or metropolitan area commuters. >The batteries only work in stop 'n go traffic where most of the time is >spent stopped. In these cases, the batteries can move the car a very long >way without running the engine, or running the engine at idle while the car >moves along at 20 mph, or so. Partially correct if somewhat overstated. I'd like to find a car that was reasonably comfortable (besides the Prius) that could get 50mpg on a 240 mile trip that was 80% highway. >For those that live in the outlying areas and spend most of their time >motoring along at 60+ mph, the Prius will not give them very much savings at >all. Depends on what you're comparing it to. If you compare to something like a Civic that isn't very comfortable to ride in, I'd agree. If you're comparing it to my f350 diesel that gets 15mpg, maybe 16 with a tailwind, I don't think I can possibly agree with you there. >>>>I care too, but just can't make *that* leap. I recycle every possible >>>>consumable, but paying that outrageous price for that tiny car chafes my [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >motoring along at 60+ mph, the Prius will not give them very much savings at >all. That makes sense to me, and isn't most of the country's driving in city type driving?...seems to me that it is and getting more and more so? -- -Gord. (use gordon in email) >>>>>I care too, but just can't make *that* leap. I recycle every possible >>>>>consumable, but paying that outrageous price for that tiny car chafes [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > -Gord. > (use gordon in email) Here in Chicago we're going the other way, to longer and longer commutes and more highway miles. A Prius wouldn't give me any better mileage than an Echo or a Tercel. The extra cost doesn't help, especially when I can't afford it anyway. Charles of Kankakee snip >> That makes sense to me, and isn't most of the country's driving >> in city type driving?...seems to me that it is and getting more [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Charles of Kankakee That makes sense...I guess as the cities get bigger they just build more highways right through them making more and more of the driving highway driving (for the worker/commuter anyway), I suppose for taxi's and delivery vans etc the hybrid might make more sense. -- -Gord. (use gordon in email) > snip >>> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > -Gord. > (use gordon in email) They need to work on a hybrid that gets better all round mileage. If I'm stuck in a traffic jam, a Prius helps but not when I'm flying at 90 down the 294 and hoping I don't get rear-ended. (That's 140 or so in metric.) Chicago traffic either moves fast or not at all, usually. Charles of Kankakee >>>>>>I care too, but just can't make *that* leap. I recycle every possible >>>>>>consumable, but paying that outrageous price for that tiny car chafes [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > Charles of Kankakee I think that is the right way to look at it. Get the Prius for other reasons because the mileage numbers can be achieved with other kinds of cars at a lower cost. PS Pretty much everywhere is looking at longer and longer commutes because homes are cheaper in the outlying areas, but the jobs remain entrenced in the cities. Where I live, for example, the jobs are in Orange County and San Diego. But these areas are pretty much built out and the only new homes are where I live. People take the jobs in the OC and San Diego, but buy the homes in my area. They have to drive 60 miles to work. If they could get a home in San Diego, or the OC, and drive 5 miles to work, then they could do it in an electric car and be fine, but this just isn't the reality that most of us have. >>>>>I care too, but just can't make *that* leap. I recycle every possible >>>>>consumable, but paying that outrageous price for that tiny car chafes [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > in city type driving?...seems to me that it is and getting more > and more so? I don't know what the mix is, or how fast the mix is changing. What I do know is I live in an area where I drive 40+ miles to work, and only about 5 to 8 of it is considered conjested. I have about 200,000 thousand neighbors that all make essentially the same commute in differing directions of course, but the profile of driving 30+ miles or more is pretty much the norm. >>>>>>I care too, but just can't make *that* leap. I recycle every possible >>>>>>consumable, but paying that outrageous price for that tiny car chafes [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >course, but the profile of driving 30+ miles or more is pretty much the >norm. My lord, how things change...I don't think that I've ever commuted more than 10 miles (mind you, that was in Toronto). I moved around my jobsite a lot then, as my family grew at a friggin phenomenal rate (young horny airman). We had 4 lil tads under five years old once, all grown up and making grandkids for me now!...got 8...heh heh... -- -Gord. (use gordon in email) I haven't heard it stated any better than that... >I haven't heard it stated any better than that... Since you're an idiot, that doesn't count for much. >>I haven't heard it stated any better than that... > > Since you're an idiot, that doesn't count for much. Why must you assume that everyone that is not on the left is an idiot? Why must you be a dizziot? Charles of Kankakee Don't ask why, appealing to logic has little effect on those who are close-minded and incapable of original thought. >Don't ask why, appealing to logic has little effect on those who are >close-minded and incapable of original thought. Like right-wingers, you mean? It sure is easy to make claims. Much harder to provide evidence of those claims. >>Don't ask why, appealing to logic has little effect on those who are >>close-minded and incapable of original thought. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >It sure is easy to make claims. Much harder to provide evidence of >those claims. You are all the proof needed.... SignatureScott in Florida "A Democratic shift to the right risks inflaming the party's Angry Left base, while a shift to the left would surely cost the party whatever support it has left from normal people." JAMES TARANTO Wall Street Journal >>>Don't ask why, appealing to logic has little effect on those who are >>>close-minded and incapable of original thought. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >You are all the proof needed.... Incorrect, as usual. > >>>Don't ask why, appealing to logic has little effect on those who are > >>>close-minded and incapable of original thought. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Incorrect, as usual. "All conservatices are not morons, but all morons are conservative" Guess the source of this quote. >> >>>Don't ask why, appealing to logic has little effect on those who are >> >>>close-minded and incapable of original thought. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > "All conservatices are not morons, but all morons are conservative" > Guess the source of this quote. Dizzy is proof that that statement is false. Clearly he is a moron, and he isn't conservative by any stretch of the imagination. >Dizzy is proof that that statement is false. Liar. >Clearly he is a moron, Pretty funny, coming from someone whose a.s I've handed to on several occasions. >and he >isn't conservative by any stretch of the imagination. Irrelevant. >>Dizzy is proof that that statement is false. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Pretty funny, coming from someone whose a.s I've handed to on several > occasions. Really? >>and he >>isn't conservative by any stretch of the imagination. > > Irrelevant. Actually, it IS the entire point of the conversation. A statement was made, <quote>"All conservatices are not morons, but all morons are conservative" </quote> I challenged the accuracy of that statement using you as my example of a moron that is not conservative. You see, the idea that you are not conservative is the point, and therefore it is relevent. That fact that this even needs to be explained provides ample fodder that not only haven't you handed my a.s to me on any occasion, but that you view your a.s as a place to store your head. >>>Dizzy is proof that that statement is false. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Really? Yep. Not that you'd admit it, of course. >>>and he >>>isn't conservative by any stretch of the imagination. >> >> Irrelevant. > >Actually, it IS the entire point of the conversation. Wrong again. >A statement was made, ><quote>"All conservatices are not morons, but all morons are conservative" ></quote> I challenged the accuracy of that statement using you as my example >of a moron that is not conservative. Which was a stupid, irrelevant, lie, and rather ironic, considering how many times I've handed you your a.s (see more examples of this below). >You see, the idea that you are not >conservative is the point, and therefore it is relevent. Nope. >That fact that this even needs to be explained You haven't "explained" anything. You've merely writhed and twisted any which way you can to try to obfuscate you proven illogic. >provides ample fodder that >not only haven't you handed my a.s to me on any occasion, Illogical, again, since this instance of disagreement has no bearing on earlier disagreements. How many errors of logic from you do I have to document, before you get it through your head? >but that you view your a.s as a place to store your head. Another lie from you. Typical. > Which was a stupid, irrelevant, lie, and rather ironic, considering > how many times I've handed you your a.s (see more examples of this > below). LOL diz. You have not handed anybody anybodies a.s except your own for a kickin'. Diz is a dizzy again. Go have a beer diz and get a life. Signature>> Which was a stupid, irrelevant, lie, and rather ironic, considering >> how many times I've handed you your a.s (see more examples of this >> below). > >LOL diz. You have not handed anybody anybodies a.s except your own for >a kickin'. Nope. The proof is archived on google, and it continues to be proven, as Jeffy has been reduced to making unsubstantiated "dizzy is a moron" claims/lies, because he is unable to find fault with any of my arguments. Pretty funny to see Jeffy the Hypocrite, who in the past has lectured others about "attacking the messenger, not the message", embarrass himself with his illogical, ad hominem attacks. >Go have a beer diz Don't mind if I do. >"dizzy is a moron" On that....we all agree....Ditz SignatureScott in Florida "A Democratic shift to the right risks inflaming the party's Angry Left base, while a shift to the left would surely cost the party whatever support it has left from normal people." James Taranto - Wall Street Journal >>> Which was a stupid, irrelevant, lie, and rather ironic, considering >>> how many times I've handed you your a.s (see more examples of this [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > claims/lies, because he is unable to find fault with any of my > arguments. I find fault with nearly all of your mornic arguments. I am not reduced to anything, I actually believe that you are a moron. No assertions. Nothing unsubatantiated. Pure fact from what you have given me/us to work with. You are the quintessential moron. > Pretty funny to see Jeffy the Hypocrite, who in the past has lectured > others about "attacking the messenger, not the message", embarrass > himself with his illogical, ad hominem attacks. That's a good point, I have given that lecture. But in the context here, I am not attacking the messenger, I'm using the messenger as an example of another's assertion that "All conservatices are not morons, but all morons are conservative," is a false assertion. I'm not attacking you by calling you a moron, I'm using you as an example. >>>> Which was a stupid, irrelevant, lie, and rather ironic, considering >>>> how many times I've handed you your a.s (see more examples of this [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >unsubatantiated. Pure fact from what you have given me/us to work with. You >are the quintessential moron. LOL! More empty claims. More ad hominem attacks. Sure signs of a frustrated idiot, reduced to such tactics because he is unable to actually defeat me in a debate. >> Pretty funny to see Jeffy the Hypocrite, who in the past has lectured >> others about "attacking the messenger, not the message", embarrass >> himself with his illogical, ad hominem attacks. > >That's a good point, I have given that lecture. Most all my points are good. >But in the context here, I >am not attacking the messenger Another bald-faced lie from you. >,I'm using the messenger as an example of >another's assertion that "All conservatices are not morons, but all morons >are conservative," is a false assertion. I'm not attacking you by calling >you a moron, I'm using you as an example. Pretender. >"All conservatices are not morons, but all morons are conservative" >Guess the source of this quote. No. >>>Don't ask why, appealing to logic has little effect on those who are >>>close-minded and incapable of original thought. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > You are all the proof needed.... Why, Thank You, Scott! Guess I don't have to let the door slap me after all, eh? SignatureIt doesn't take a genius to know the difference between chicken sh.t and chicken salad... >>>>Don't ask why, appealing to logic has little effect on those who are >>>>close-minded and incapable of original thought. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Guess I don't have to let the door slap me after all, eh? Nah...you are just fine (well relatively...that is) SignatureScott in Florida "A Democratic shift to the right risks inflaming the party's Angry Left base, while a shift to the left would surely cost the party whatever support it has left from normal people." James Taranto - Wall Street Journal >>Don't ask why, appealing to logic has little effect on those who are >>close-minded and incapable of original thought. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > It sure is easy to make claims. Much harder to provide evidence of > those claims. I don't HAVE to because I KNOW I'm Right... Yes I am, I'm Right... SignatureIt doesn't take a genius to know the difference between chicken sh.t and chicken salad... > Don't ask why, appealing to logic has little effect on those who are > close-minded and incapable of original thought. Their logic is sick and twisted, and not in a good way. . . Charles of Kankakee >"dizzy" <dizzy@nospam.invalid> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Why must you assume that everyone that is not on the left is an idiot? I don't. There's actually a few righties here who are not "idiots", IMO. >Why must you be a dizziot? If "dizziot" means "exceptionally intelligent person", I guess it's just my curse. 8) >>"dizzy" <dizzy@nospam.invalid> wrote in message >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > If "dizziot" means "exceptionally intelligent person", I guess it's > just my curse. 8) My, my, we DO flatter ourselves, eh? ;) Guess I changed my sig file just in time! SignatureIt doesn't take a genius to know the difference between chicken sh.t and chicken salad... >>I haven't heard it stated any better than that... > >Since you're an idiot, that doesn't count for much. Wonderful....Ditzy! Your edumankasion is showing... SignatureScott in Florida "A Democratic shift to the right risks inflaming the party's Angry Left base, while a shift to the left would surely cost the party whatever support it has left from normal people." JAMES TARANTO Wall Street Journal >>I haven't heard it stated any better than that... > > Since you're an idiot, that doesn't count for much. I guess I'm an idiot too, because Hachi's opinion matches mine. Natalie >>>I haven't heard it stated any better than that... >> >> Since you're an idiot, that doesn't count for much. > >I guess I'm an idiot too, because Hachi's opinion matches mine. Everybody is an idiot in dizzies book....LOL SignatureScott in Florida "A Democratic shift to the right risks inflaming the party's Angry Left base, while a shift to the left would surely cost the party whatever support it has left from normal people." James Taranto - Wall Street Journal >>>>I haven't heard it stated any better than that... >>> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Everybody is an idiot in dizzies book....LOL That's strange, I thought just everyone to the right of Teddy Kennedy was an idiot in dizzot's book. Charles of Kankakee >>>I haven't heard it stated any better than that... >> >> Since you're an idiot, that doesn't count for much. > >I guess I'm an idiot too, because Hachi's opinion matches mine. Illogical, considering what you wrote did not match what Hachi wrote, and, even if it did, it would have zero bearing on the credibility of Mark the idiot's opinions. >>>>I haven't heard it stated any better than that... >>> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Illogical, considering what you wrote did not match what Hachi wrote Well, unless my comprehension skills have greatly deteriorated, I remember saying that Prius isn't cost effective, but more earth-friendly than anything else. That's essentially what Hachi said; at least I *think* that's what he meant. , > and, even if it did, it would have zero bearing on the credibility of > Mark the idiot's opinions. In your opinion, no Natalie >>>>>I haven't heard it stated any better than that... >>>> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Natalie Well...it's NOT really that much more Earth friendly...like I said, the batteries. I don't know if things have changed; when the car was on the drawing board, there was no way to dispose of the batteries. The thought was ther WILL be by the time these cars are done. SignatureIt doesn't take a genius to know the difference between chicken sh.t and chicken salad... > >I haven't heard it stated any better than that... > > Since you're an idiot, that doesn't count for much. He's not even an idiot. He's a mistake. >>::: Wickeddoll® wrote: >>::::: [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Natalie My bicycle uses no gas, plus I get some exercise. Save the world and get in shape! This is "outdoor" exercise, as opposed to Natalie's "indoor" exercise :-) The good news is I get exercise and my kids get off the sofa. The bad news is we ride to the ice cream store . . . . >My bicycle uses no gas, plus I get some exercise. Save the world and >get in shape! This is "outdoor" exercise, as opposed to Natalie's >"indoor" exercise :-) The good news is I get exercise and my kids get >off the sofa. The bad news is we ride to the ice cream store . . . . Bring your bikes down and I'll take you on my 10 mile early morning ride to the Gulf of Mexico. No ice cream stores open at 5 am....LOL SignatureScott in Florida "A Democratic shift to the right risks inflaming the party's Angry Left base, while a shift to the left would surely cost the party whatever support it has left from normal people." JAMES TARANTO Wall Street Journal >>>::: Wickeddoll® wrote: >>>::::: [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > exercise :-) The good news is I get exercise and my kids get off the sofa. > The bad news is we ride to the ice cream store . . . . ROFL! hehehe I actually do other indoor 'exercises' besides the mattress mambo. I have a stair machine that has me totally hooked on it. :-) Natalie >I actually do other indoor 'exercises' besides the mattress mambo. I have a >stair machine that has me totally hooked on it. > >:-) > >Natalie Just trying to picture a 'stair machine mounted on a mattress'...gollee...does one require a permit to operate that Nat?... -- -Gord. (use gordon in email) >>I actually do other indoor 'exercises' besides the mattress mambo. I have >>a [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > -Gord. *fwap* Natalie > The three to five thousand dollar premium one pays to buy a hybrid will buy > ALL of ones fuel for three or four years. To say nothing of three to five [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Seems to me one can not benefit financially buying a hybrid. The best one > can do is help save the planet, if that is their desire But on these cars, the gas engine is running a LOT, especially if you have the AC on. Then, on top of that, you have batteries to dispose of at the car's End Of Life, so where's the Eco savings? And they aree made of the same materials as other Toys; some MAY be more easily recycled, but on a whole, no. Basically, in it's present state, this car is a gadget for people who love gadgets, and for those who like to make a statement, whether they really are or not. Don't get me wrong; I LOVE the car; I like the older ones better on a whole, but the newer ones are sleek, roomy and run very well. But you aren't really saving ANYTHING by buying one! And when I had the chance to drive one for a while, I did no better that my '95 Tercel, that has the same engine as the gas unit in the Prius: 42MPG for the Tercel, 41 MPG for the Prius. >> :: I still refuse to pay for that damned car LOL Seriously, though, we >> :: do very little driving on the whole, so I don't think it would be a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> Yes, but it will get cheaper. At least I seriously hope so, because I want >> one and I'm not paying *that* for it either! >The three to five thousand dollar premium one pays to buy a hybrid will buy >ALL of ones fuel for three or four years. To say nothing of three to five >thousand dollar premium one must pay to replace the battery pack, at some >point down the road, if they keep the vehicle long enough in an effort to >recover the original premium they pay to purchase the vehicle. Oh well, I'd rather give it to Toyota than to the oil companies and the countries that hate us. > :: I still refuse to pay for that damned car LOL Seriously, though, we > :: do very little driving on the whole, so I don't think it would be a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Yes, but it will get cheaper. At least I seriously hope so, because I want > one and I'm not paying *that* for it either! I doubt it will get cheaper - - there was a "mid-year" increase of $300 in the MSRP already. I suspect the only thing that causes a price reduction is lagging sales due to obsolescence, which is where the rest of the industry is at right now. I think you need two calculations before you are finished looking at this. In the first calculation, you figure out how much you save on the gas bills by getting rid of the SUV, then compare the Prius to whatever you used in the calculations against the SUV. There is no question the SUV costs a small but increasing fortune to drive, but there are replacement models that are cheaper than the Prius, and give the ROI (Return on Investment) much sooner. The que4stion you need to answer is, is the cost-up for the Prius worth it? You can dump the truck and get a Camry and save enough in a month to make the payments, the question is, will there be enough extra savings with the Prius vs. the Camry to cover the added cost of buying it? Get it? PS The answer may very well be yes, the Prius is a good value. But, most analysts seem to think that Prius owners will not keep the cars long enough to have the fuel savings pay the added cost of purchasing them. > Given: MPM (miles per month), $PG (dollars per gallon), MPG1 (previous > miles [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > of this hybrid system is better than paying it to Shell Oil and adding to > the world's pollution for 4 years, it should be an easy choice. > I think you need two calculations before you are finished looking at this. > In the first calculation, you figure out how much you save on the gas bills [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > of this hybrid system is better than paying it to Shell Oil and adding to > > the world's pollution for 4 years, it should be an easy choice. My take is get a cheap car (maybe two years old) with good mileage, easy to maintain, like a Corolla or something like it. Keep it for a long time and in the later years it will become a clunker but cost you nil. You will be dollars ahead. BTW, how much is insurance on the Prius? SignatureYour model considers gas costs only, ignoring the cost of the car itself. At today's prices, it's a better financial decision to save $10K and buy a Corolla or a 4-cyl. Camry. At 30mpg for a Corolla, your (best case) savings with the Prius is $63 dollars a month, or over 13 years to pay for itself. > Given: MPM (miles per month), $PG (dollars per gallon), MPG1 (previous miles > per gallon), MPG2 (new miles per gallon) [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > of this hybrid system is better than paying it to Shell Oil and adding to > the world's pollution for 4 years, it should be an easy choice. The obvious omission is the "time cost of money". You lay out the $10K in 2005 dollars, but the savings is in future dollars. E.g., if you could invest the $10K at 5%, your Prius is costing you another $500 a year. SignatureKen Goldman kgold@watson.ibm.com 914-784-7646 |
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