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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / September 2005

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FOG lights

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Don Fearn - 24 Sep 2005 02:54 GMT
Why can't I turn on JUST the fog lights in my 2005 Camry?

DUH! I know that's how it's designed. I want to know WHY!

Fog lights only would be ever so helpful during . . .

FOG.

But I have to turn on the headlights in order to get the fog lights
on, and the headlights reflect back in FOG, making the fog lights
about useless in . . .

FOG.

Any reasons why that is?

Any relatively easy way to make the fog lights come on by themselves?

Will my 2006 Scion xB that's arriving next week have the same setup?

-Don (curious in Rochester MN)
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"Ladies and gentlemen take my advice.
Pull down your pants and slide on the ice."

-- Sidney Freedman

badgolferman - 24 Sep 2005 03:13 GMT
Don Fearn, 9/23/2005,
<54c9j1lnc1r3tamom10slg9e7r50qikdsv@4ax.com>,9:54:07 PM, wrote:

> "Ladies and gentlemen take my advice.
> Pull down your pants and slide on the ice."
>
> -- Sidney Freedman

Please explain this quip.

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"Hockey is a sport for white men.  Basketball is a sport for black men.
Golf is a sport for white men dressed like black pimps." -- Tiger Woods

Don Fearn - 24 Sep 2005 04:32 GMT
I coulda sworn "badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com>
typ'd:

>Don Fearn, 9/23/2005,
><54c9j1lnc1r3tamom10slg9e7r50qikdsv@4ax.com>,9:54:07 PM, wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Please explain this quip.

I'm a M*A*S*H fan.

If you're one too, no other explanation is necessary.

If you're NOT, no other explanation will suffice.

-D
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 ____ ____    _ __________________________________________________
/    // o )  //    |    Don Fearn  |  "What do _you_ care         \
|   // __/ _//     |       of      |   what other people think?"  |  
|  ((_/oo((o/er is:     Rochester, |                              |  
\_____DoD #591_____|____Minnesota__|___________--Arline_Feynman___/

Hachiroku - 24 Sep 2005 12:24 GMT
> I coulda sworn "badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com>
> typ'd:
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> -D

Ah, yes...I missed the name associated with the quote.

Perfectly clear now!
Hachiroku - 24 Sep 2005 03:43 GMT
> Why can't I turn on JUST the fog lights in my 2005 Camry?
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> -Don (curious in Rochester MN)

I haven't tried this yet.

This is for an '87/88 Supra. If you're handy and can use a volt/ohm meter,
you should be able to translate this to your car. Not having a 2005 Camry,
I can't do it for you!

Category: MKIII _ 1986.5-1992
Subcategory: Body Electrical System     Visited: 2058
Usability Rating: Coming Soon

Article:
Authored by: Darin Moore

Tools Required: Wire strippers/cutters, Elec. tape, Solderless connectors

Skills Required: Wire stripping/splicing

Note: Tested on an 87, should work fine on 88 too

Okay everybody, here is the rewire for the 87's. I know this works, because I just did it.

I recommend taking the driver's seat out, it makes it much easier to get underneath the dash.

1) Remove the kick panel from the driver's side footwell. Also remove the dash piece under the steering column,
and the scuff plate from the door sill.

2) RELAY : Locate the F/L relay. It is just behind the dashboard up and away from the fuse block.
It clicks when the fog lights on turned on. Locate wire #1 (red/yellow) It
will test at a constant 12volts. leaving enough wire to splice with, cut
the wire, and tape off the dash side. Attach a splice / lead to the relay
side, and connect it to a wire or fuse that is 12v when the lights are
switched on. ( I used the bottom side of the Tail fuse). Locate wire #2
(white/green) cut this wire the same way, but attach your lead from the
relay to a known ground. (There is a large screw very close to the relay
that works perfect.)

3) SWITCH : pull the switch panel with the fog light switch away from the dash.
It snaps right off. locate the third wire from the top (red / black). Cut
this wire, tape off the dashboard end, and run a lead from the switch to
the third wire of the rear defogger switch (yellow). Splice your lead into
this wire.

4) TEST : TURN THE IGNITION SWITCH ON! turn the parking lights on, then click
the fog light switch, it should work. If it doesn't, recheck all your
wires, and make sure that you have the relay connected to a fuse that is
12v when the parking lights are ON, and that you have a good ground. If
you have a test meter, it makes it much easier. If it works, put every
thing back together, and you are done. Note : My fog light switch was
wired with the third wire being red and green. My guess is this was done
during service some time before I bought the car. simply take the wire
plug out of the fog light switch, remove the back, and arrange the wires
from top to bottom in this order. 1 white/green, 2 green, 3 red/black, 4
red/green. You will notice that all the switches have the white/green and
green wires in the same place.

Oh!, and make sure you turn the ignition switch on when testing, I feel like
an idiot, but I forgot to do that, and was halfway through my sailor's
dictionary of swear words before i saw my keys sitting on the passenger's
seat. Doh!

This should provide a starting point; you'll at least have some idea what
you're looking for. Toyota has probably changed wire loom colors, so
that's where the meter will come in handy.

Perhaps if you can find the relay (chances are it will be close to where
it's described here) and can give us the wire colrs/voltages, someone here
may be able to help you out a little more.

Hey, tomorrow's Saturday; what ELSE did you have to do???  ;)

Good luck Write back with what you find!
Ray O - 24 Sep 2005 06:39 GMT
> Why can't I turn on JUST the fog lights in my 2005 Camry?
>
> DUH! I know that's how it's designed. I want to know WHY!

In some states, like Illinois, it is illegal to drive with just fog lights
when headlights are required so Toyota built this into their systems.  The
same reasoning applies to the fog lights turning off when the high beam
headlights are on.

Signature

Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

>
> Fog lights only would be ever so helpful during . . .
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> -Don (curious in Rochester MN)
NeedforSwede2 - 24 Sep 2005 14:52 GMT
>In some states, like Illinois, it is illegal to drive with just fog lights
>when headlights are required so Toyota built this into their systems.  The
>same reasoning applies to the fog lights turning off when the high beam
>headlights are on.

UK is the same.
Fogs only with low beam highlights.
Spots and long range driving lights only with hight beam.
Signature

Carl Robson
Car PC Build starts again. http://smallr.com/rz
Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com

Huw - 25 Sep 2005 18:42 GMT
>>In some states, like Illinois, it is illegal to drive with just fog lights
>>when headlights are required so Toyota built this into their systems.  The
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Fogs only with low beam highlights.
> Spots and long range driving lights only with hight beam.

Actually, in the UK, very many cars can be used with fogs on combined with
only the side-lights [park lights] are on.

Huw
Coyoteboy - 26 Sep 2005 12:57 GMT
> Actually, in the UK, very many cars can be used with fogs on combined with
> only the side-lights [park lights] are on.
>
> Huw

Yup, my celica can have the fogs on with anything sidelights upwards
including full beam.

J
Bruce L. Bergman - 26 Sep 2005 17:02 GMT
>> Actually, in the UK, very many cars can be used with fogs on combined with
>> only the side-lights [park lights] are on.
>
>Yup, my celica can have the fogs on with anything sidelights upwards
>including full beam.

 Toyota builds their cars slightly differently for each market they
sell to, to meet the local regulations even if the drivers don't
realize it.

 Over there in UKoGBaNI-land ;-) the laws are probably written that
you only have to have the tail lights on with the fog lights, so they
wire the cars at the factory so they work that way.  In the USA
several states require low-beam headlights also be on with the fog
lights, so that's how we get them all.

 Another example: European cars get a side turn signal on the front
fender behind or over the tire, but the US only requires that the
regular front side clearance markers blink.  So they only add the
extra fixture for EU market cars.  (Volkswagen uses the same fender
stampings, and blanks off the hole with a medallion.)

 And a third example:  Several Middle East countries require buzzers
that sound if the car goes over the national speed limit.  So those
cars get a little box under the dash that taps into the speed sensor
in the speedometer head and a simple pulse counter circuit...

 And yet a fourth:  Many cars in EU (I've seen several flavors of
Mercedes equipped this way) are wired with a switch that turns on the
front marker light and tail light on only one side or the other, in
case you have to park with one side of the car sticking out into a
narrow road.  That feature would not be useful in the US (just another
way to run down the battery accidentally) so they don't install it.

 Many US states are now passing laws that require full headlights and
tail lights (not just DRL's) when it's raining hard enough to require
full speed windshield wipers, because there are some fools who can't
figure it out that just because they can see out okay doesn't mean
that other people can see THEM.  (Crunch!)  California just did it,
which means a dozen more will pass similar laws in the near future.

 Watch for this - Expect Toyota to start wiring a trigger between the
windshield wipers and the headlight control module on US spec cars.

   --<< Bruce >>--

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Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address:  Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

Scott in Florida - 26 Sep 2005 19:06 GMT
> Many US states are now passing laws that require full headlights and
>tail lights (not just DRL's) when it's raining hard enough to require
>full speed windshield wipers

What makes you think anyone that didn't turn on their headlights when
it rains before....will do it just because it is a law?

It has been the law here in Florida for a long time....but you still
see  a LOT of idiots without their lights on during a rain..

Signature


Scott in Florida

Bruce L. Bergman - 27 Sep 2005 04:38 GMT
>> Many US states are now passing laws that require full headlights and
>>tail lights (not just DRL's) when it's raining hard enough to require
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>It has been the law here in Florida for a long time....but you still
>see  a LOT of idiots without their lights on during a rain..

 All that takes is giving the driving public a good dose of education
through PSA announcements, license renewal reminder notes on this
year's new laws, and other methods.

 And sometimes the only way you can effectively impart that education
to the denser induhviduals in society comes through having the state
troopers and local yokels hand out nice expensive traffic tickets.
That tends to get their attention when nothing else will.  ;-)

 "License and registration please, Sir."  ...  "The reason I pulled
you over today is that I darned near ran into your car - you didn't
have your headlights on as required by the Vehicle Code, and it's
raining buckets making visibility near zero.  Now I might have given
you a warning if you'd have stopped under the nice sort-of-dry
overpass back there, but the rain running down the back of my neck
isn't improving my mood today at _all_..."

      --<< Bruce >>--

Signature

Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address:  Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

Scott in Florida - 27 Sep 2005 13:23 GMT
>>> Many US states are now passing laws that require full headlights and
>>>tail lights (not just DRL's) when it's raining hard enough to require
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>overpass back there, but the rain running down the back of my neck
>isn't improving my mood today at _all_..."

Yes...all that would work....IF they did it.

....and the ONE time I forgot....LOL

>       --<< Bruce >>--
Signature


Scott in Florida

NeedforSwede2 - 26 Sep 2005 15:42 GMT
> >>In some states, like Illinois, it is illegal to drive with just fog lights
> >>when headlights are required so Toyota built this into their systems.  The
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Huw

I realise that can many can, but I thought law on it was only with
dipped headlights?
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Carl Robson
Car PC Build starts again. http://smallr.com/rz
Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com

Coyoteboy - 26 Sep 2005 19:12 GMT
> I realise that can many can, but I thought law on it was only with
> dipped headlights?
> --
> Carl Robson
> Car PC Build starts again. http://smallr.com/rz
> Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com

I dont have a copy of the text here in front of me (i do have it
somewhere) but im pretty sure there is no law stating you can only use
them with dipped lights - they just advise it. Hence UK sold cars have
fogs enabled any time lights are on.

J
C. E. White - 26 Sep 2005 16:42 GMT
> Actually, in the UK, very many cars can be used with fogs on combined with
> only the side-lights [park lights] are on.

Hopefully, in the UK they treat "Fog Lights" as Fog Light, and not "Look at
me, I'm So Special Lights." I can't tell you how often I have had to
restrain myself from trying to smash the "Fog Lights" on the vehicle behind
me (or ones I meet for that matter). A large number of drivers in the US
feel the need to irritate as many other drivers as possible by using "Fog
Lights" on clear nights and/or on busy city streets.

Ed
Huw - 26 Sep 2005 17:32 GMT
>> Actually, in the UK, very many cars can be used with fogs on combined
>> with
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Ed

Exactly the same here. Unfortunately. It is against the law to use fog
lights where there is no fog and it is sometimes enforced, but the habit
seems to be growing nevertheless.

Huw
Coyoteboy - 26 Sep 2005 19:17 GMT
> "C. E. White" <cewhite3@removemindspring.com> wrote in message
> Exactly the same here. Unfortunately. It is against the law to use fog
> lights where there is no fog and it is sometimes enforced, but the habit
> seems to be growing nevertheless.
>
> Huw

Seems to be growing out of fashion here in the NW of the UK, there was
a rash of it but its tailing off. I have 100/130w headlights (no, they
arent dazzling as the beam is correctly aligned) and they are used to
spoon out own medicine with a full beam flash when i spot fog users.

J
Bruce L. Bergman - 24 Sep 2005 06:55 GMT
>Why can't I turn on JUST the fog lights in my 2005 Camry?
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>FOG.

 Not really - properly adjusted low beams in fog don't help that
much, but they don't hurt either if you have real fog lights on.  Now
as to the people with their low beams aimed too high, or who try
running with high beams or driving lights on...

>Any reasons why that is?

 Yeah, because most US states and many other countries have laws on
the books restricting fog lights to be used only when the headlights
are on.  Some say low beams only, others specify just 'headlights'.

 The reason for the law being there are too many morons out there who
would not turn on their tail lights and try driving around with the
fog lights only, and the blacked out back of the car would be a sure
target to get rear-ended in the fog...

>Any relatively easy way to make the fog lights come on by themselves?
>
>Will my 2006 Scion xB that's arriving next week have the same setup?
>
>-Don (curious in Rochester MN)

 The wiring can be changed, but why do you want to?  You know better,
but other drivers of your car can get popped for that 'no headlights'
ticket.

 I would suggest KISS - carry a roll of duct tape in the car.  If you
hit heavy fog you put a strip of tape to physically block the top half
of your headlight low beam lamps so they can't throw any light above
the cutoff level at all.  Simple, cheap, and highly effective.

    --<< Bruce >>--

Signature

Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address:  Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

Scott in Florida - 24 Sep 2005 12:58 GMT
>I would suggest KISS - carry a roll of duct tape in the car.  If you
>hit heavy fog you put a strip of tape to physically block the top half
>of your headlight low beam lamps so they can't throw any light above
>the cutoff level at all.  Simple, cheap, and highly effective.

......but get that damned stuff off ASAP or you will be sorry....

Signature


Scott in Florida

Jeff Strickland - 27 Sep 2005 19:17 GMT
> Why can't I turn on JUST the fog lights in my 2005 Camry?
>
> DUH! I know that's how it's designed. I want to know WHY!

Because Fog Lights are deemed to be Auxiliary Lighting. Since they are an
auxiliary light source, they require a main light source at the same time so
they do not perform main lighting services.

And Fog Lights are also tied to the Low Beams because highbeams reflect lots
of light in your eyes and should NEVER be used in foggy situations. Lights
that come on with High Beams are called Driving Lights, and they must be
wired to not come on with the Low Beams. Driving lights are aimed higher and
they shine further down the roadway, if they were used in fog they would
effectively blind you. Fog Lights are aimed low to light the fog from a low
angle and reduce the glare of the low beams and increase the visibility.

> Fog lights only would be ever so helpful during . . .
>
> FOG.

Actually, they wouldn't help at all as a primary lighting source. They are
aimed too low to see anything by themselves.

> But I have to turn on the headlights in order to get the fog lights
> on, and the headlights reflect back in FOG, making the fog lights
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Will my 2006 Scion xB that's arriving next week have the same setup?

Yes. Not because Scion makes it that way, but because the law says they have
to make it that way.
Coyoteboy - 28 Sep 2005 09:43 GMT
> Because Fog Lights are deemed to be Auxiliary Lighting. Since they are an
> auxiliary light source, they require a main light source at the same time so
> they do not perform main lighting services.

Mine can :D Fogs come on with anything sidelights upwards. I get better
visibility in really thick fog JUST with fogs as even my dipped beams
reflect back as much as my mains give or take. When its that foggy
though I'm usually travelling at about 10mph and just watching the
white line, the kerb and for lights ahead lol.

J
Jeff Strickland - 28 Sep 2005 16:49 GMT
>> Because Fog Lights are deemed to be Auxiliary Lighting. Since they are an
>> auxiliary light source, they require a main light source at the same time
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> though I'm usually travelling at about 10mph and just watching the
> white line, the kerb and for lights ahead lol.

Actually, my BMW lights the fogs with the running lamps too. I forgot about
that.

But the cops are not impressed, and they stopped me to remind me that I
needed the headlamps on too.
Coyoteboy - 29 Sep 2005 09:14 GMT
must have been some point where regulation kicked in in various
countries that created some sort of standard for each country across
makers.
J
 
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