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Car Forum / Toyota / Toyota Cars / May 2006Possible to buy used Matrix/Vibe for $8k?
I'm gonna sell my 2000 Mazda Protege to my nephew in college for abt $6k he needs a decent car bad and my Protege is a great car but always wished Id gotten a hatchback style for better cargo hauling. Cant haul NOTHING in the Protege. Having said that.... what can I expect to pay for decent use Matrix/Vibe say in 2002 range? Is that even possible at $8k? If not...what range should I be thinking on money wise? Id like to not have anything older than 5 years if possible > Having said that.... what can I expect to pay for > decent use Matrix/Vibe say in 2002 range? The /Matrix/Vibe wasn't introduced until the 2003 model year. Here in Florida a fair condition, 50K mile 4DR FWD Vibe (the base models, not the GT or 4WD versions) would go for about 9K from a private party. Mabye $500 more for the Matrix. So much for Toyotas claim of better resale value. Considering it cost thousands of dollars more to drive home a similarly equipped Matrix, when both were new, the Vibe has a better return on its original investment. mike hunt >> Having said that.... what can I expect to pay for >> decent use Matrix/Vibe say in 2002 range? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > models, not the GT or 4WD versions) would go for about 9K from a private > party. Mabye $500 more for the Matrix. > So much for Toyotas claim of better resale value. Considering it cost > thousands of dollars more to drive home a similarly equipped Matrix, > when both were new, the Vibe has a better return on its original > investment. Really? My research says the base model prices were actually higher on the Vibe as well as the top-end pricing. 2003 Vibe: MSRP: $16,485-19,785 2003 Matrix MSRP: $14,670-19,330 > Really? My research says the base model prices were actually higher > on the Vibe as well as the top-end pricing. > > 2003 Vibe: MSRP: $16,485-19,785 > 2003 Matrix MSRP: $14,670-19,330 Another reference: http://www.nctd.com/review-intro.cfm?ReviewID=1086 Toyota worked with GM to develop this product and the Pontiac Vibe is similar. Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Matrix have identical interiors but different exterior designs. Pontiac Vibes are more costly than the equivalent Toyota Matrix models. That may be but I was not referring to MSRP but rather the real world total drive home price of similarly equipped vehicles. mike hunt >> Really? My research says the base model prices were actually higher >> on the Vibe as well as the top-end pricing. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > different exterior designs. Pontiac Vibes are more costly than the > equivalent Toyota Matrix models. > So much for Toyotas claim of better resale value. Considering it cost > thousands of dollars more to drive home a similarly equipped Matrix, when > both were new, the Vibe has a better return on its original investment. > mike hunt We're so glad "mike hunt" took time out from his busy day to be wrong. http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/pontiac/vibe/100536817/prices.html?action=1 http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/toyota/matrix/100579324/prices.html?action=1 The fact of the matter is, the Toyota's about a thousand bucks cheaper, cash price after incentives, to drive home. Mike, the facts on Toyota/GM pricing have been pointed out to you many times. Are you just plain stupid or do you have an agenda but no scruples? > >> Having said that.... what can I expect to pay for > >> decent use Matrix/Vibe say in 2002 range? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > models, not the GT or 4WD versions) would go for about 9K from a private > > party. Mabye $500 more for the Matrix. Actually it is you who has the wrong opinion of what it cost to drive home a vehicle and it is NEVER the selling price Nobody drives home a car for the selling price. It has been pointed out to you many times Pontiac dealers in general add fewer smoke an mirrors options to their cars and generally offer more for ones trade than do Toyota dealers. In addition GM interest rates are generally lower than Toyotas rates. All of those things add to the selling price. That is a reason the Vibe outsells the Matrix by big numbers As has been point out to you many times as well, you should go out the real world and discover what it actually cost to buy various vehicles. Go to a Toyota dealer and a Pontiac dealer and get the total drive home price and see for yourself and learn something for a change In any event he is, looking at used vehicle and the poster point out the Matrix cost more used. >> So much for Toyotas claim of better resale value. Considering it cost >> thousands of dollars more to drive home a similarly equipped Matrix, when [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com *** > Actually it is you who has the wrong opinion of what it cost to drive > home a vehicle and it is NEVER the selling price Nobody drives home > a car for the selling price. Usually the final transaction (sales) price of a new car is lower than the MSRP. Except perhaps for new models or for models in very high demand where the dealer (attempts) to include additional dealer markup. > It has been pointed out to you many > times Pontiac dealers in general add fewer smoke an mirrors options > to their cars and generally offer more for ones trade than do Toyota > dealers. The price of the trade has nothing to do with the sales price of the car itself. I don't have any data to prove or disprove the concept of 'smoke and mirror' options. Personally, I never buy them. > In addition GM interest rates are generally lower than > Toyotas rates. All of those things add to the selling price. Interest rates have nothing to do with the sales price of the car itself. You are demonstrating that you do not know the difference between the selling price and the total drive home price. Dealers love buyer that do not know the difference. ;) mike hunt >> Actually it is you who has the wrong opinion of what it cost to drive >> home a vehicle and it is NEVER the selling price Nobody drives home [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Interest rates have nothing to do with the sales price of the car > itself. > You are demonstrating that you do not know the difference between the > selling price and the total drive home price. Dealers love buyer > that do not know the difference. ;) When comparing the value of two alternative assets you don't use their 'out the door' prices or include finance costs, In this example you use the contract price of the car net of any trade-in, taxes, or fees and compare that to the resale value of the used vehicle. Don't talk so stupid, of course the total amount one spends to drive the vehicle home, is its cost. What if the difference in fees that one Toyota dealer charges is $300 more than charged by another? What if the difference in the interest rates charged by the two on $30,000 is 1/4% lower. What if the one dealers trade allowance is $500 less? From which Toyota will you buy YOUR Toyota? The fact nationwide more buyers are buying the Vibe, than its similarly equipped Toyota twin. The reason is because the total drive home price of the Vibe is much less, regardless of what the MSRP happens to be. Like I said dealers love buyer that do not know the difference between the selling price and the actual cost of driving home their vehicle. LOL >> You are demonstrating that you do not know the difference between the >> selling price and the total drive home price. Dealers love buyer [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the contract price of the car net of any trade-in, taxes, or fees and > compare that to the resale value of the used vehicle. > Don't talk so stupid, of course the total amount one spends to drive > the vehicle home, is its cost. What if the difference in fees that [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > difference between the selling price and the actual cost of driving > home their vehicle. LOL When you learn not to top post I'll grant you a bit of credibility. Until then, *plonk*. > Actually it is you who has the wrong opinion of what it cost to drive home a > vehicle and it is NEVER the selling price Nobody drives home a car for the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Toyota dealer and a Pontiac dealer and get the total drive home price and > see for yourself and learn something for a change Edmunds says you're wrong. By about a grand. Go offer your expertise to Edmunds, they've got a lot riding on the accuracy of their site. I'm sure they'll be delighted to hear from you. Anybody who gets taken in by "smoke and mirrors" at a Toyota dealer is going to get taken in by "smoke and mirrors" at a Pontiac dealer. I haven't been to a Pontiac dealer in ages but all the cars I looked at on the local Chevy lot have hand-written entries on a secondary price sheet. Anybody who doesn't know the true value of his trade at a Toyota dealer won't know the true value of his trade at a Pontiac dealer. > In any event he is, looking at used vehicle and the poster point out the > Matrix cost more used. Then why did you bring up the "when both were new" aspect of the discussion? Just couldn't pass up an opportunity to be wrong? > >> So much for Toyotas claim of better resale value. Considering it cost > >> thousands of dollars more to drive home a similarly equipped Matrix, when > >> both were new, the Vibe has a better return on its original investment. > >> mike hunt > > > > We're so glad "mike hunt" took time out from his busy day to be wrong. http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/pontiac/vibe/100536817/prices.html?action=1 http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/toyota/matrix/100579324/prices.html?action=1 > > The fact of the matter is, the Toyota's about a thousand bucks cheaper, > > cash [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > > > *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com *** You are entitled to you own opinion, no mater how convoluted it may be. ;) mike hunt >> Actually it is you who has the wrong opinion of what it cost to drive >> home [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > discussion? > Just couldn't pass up an opportunity to be wrong? > You are entitled to you own opinion, no mater how convoluted it may be. ;) > > mike hunt Gee, "edmunds says you're wrong," doesn't strike me as particularly convoluted. I guess, in addition to being wrong, you're also fairly stupid. > >> Actually it is you who has the wrong opinion of what it cost to drive > >> home [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > discussion? > > Just couldn't pass up an opportunity to be wrong? When did Edmonds start comparing individual drive home price anyway. You are entitled to you own opinion, no mater how convoluted it may be or how often you express your opinion. LOL mike hunt >> You are entitled to you own opinion, no mater how convoluted it may be. > ;) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > convoluted. I guess, in addition to being wrong, you're also fairly > stupid. > When did Edmonds start comparing individual drive home price anyway. You > are entitled to you own opinion, no mater how convoluted it may be or how > often you express your opinion. LOL > mike hunt Edmunds compares the real selling price after incentives. The things that are missing are things which are not unique to the car. Trade, if any, taxes. There may also be individual dealer advantages and disadvantages. For similar dealer overhead in the same state, with the same trade situation, Edmunds will give an accurate picture of relative vehicle pricing. If you're so much more knowledgeable and accurate, why not set up your own web site and put Edmunds out of business? I'm sure you'd be doing the world a real service. Until you do, your credibility is zilch. However, you do appear very familiar with your right to remain wrong. > >> You are entitled to you own opinion, no mater how convoluted it may be. > > ;) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > convoluted. I guess, in addition to being wrong, you're also fairly > > stupid. You have never actually tried to compare the drive home prices of a similarly equipped Vibe and a Matrix. Until you do, your credibility is zilch. However, you do appear very familiar with your right to remain wrong. ;) mike hunt >> When did Edmonds start comparing individual drive home price anyway. > You [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Until you do, your credibility is zilch. However, you do appear very > familiar with your right to remain wrong. > You have never actually tried to compare the drive home prices of a > similarly equipped Vibe and a Matrix. Until you do, your credibility is > zilch. However, you do appear very familiar with your right to remain > wrong. ;) > > mike hunt Imitiation is the sincerest form of flattery, thank you. And YOU have compared the price of the Vibe and the Matrix? Is that right, Mr. "I Used to Drive Lexuzses But Now I Only Drive Ford Mustangs and Lincolns?" Answer: No, you haven't. [snicker] > >> When did Edmonds start comparing individual drive home price anyway. > > You [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Until you do, your credibility is zilch. However, you do appear very > > familiar with your right to remain wrong. Actually I have, and did not by either, my grandson preferred a Mazda. I buy more cars than just those I buy for myself. Since you did not want to answer the question I can only assume you have not compare the two so your opinion is just that, an uninformed opinion. mike hunt >> You have never actually tried to compare the drive home prices of a >> similarly equipped Vibe and a Matrix. Until you do, your credibility is [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > [snicker] >Actually I have, You have what, top poster? >and did not by either, "did not by either?" WTF does that mean? >my grandson preferred a Mazda. I >buy more cars than just those I buy for myself. Since you did not want to >answer the question I can only assume you have not compare the two so your >opinion is just that, an uninformed opinion. Better than the bald-faced lies that you spew out, top poster. My dear friend dizzy AKA, Stupid, Idiot, Troll, Moron, a.shole, Engineer and pathological liar, your statement is just one more BOLD faced lie from a proven pathological liar AKA as dizzy, Stupid, Idiot, Troll, Moron, a.shole, and Engineer ;) mike, hunt >>my grandson preferred a Mazda. I >>buy more cars than just those I buy for myself. Since you did not want [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Better than the bald-faced lies that you spew out, top poster. >The /Matrix/Vibe wasn't introduced until the 2003 model year. > >Here in Florida a fair condition, 50K mile 4DR FWD Vibe (the base >models, not the GT or 4WD versions) would go for about 9K from a private >party. Mabye $500 more for the Matrix. Well 9k isn't totally out of my range Any other used hatchback models to consider in that price range tho? I'm definitely not wanting to buy new tho. > Any other used hatchback models to consider in that > price range tho? The 2002 Mazda Protege 5 (a station wagon) is in that same price range. >> Any other used hatchback models to consider in that >> price range tho? > >The 2002 Mazda Protege 5 (a station wagon) is in that same price range. I'm talking my used price range of 8-9k > >The /Matrix/Vibe wasn't introduced until the 2003 model year. > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I'm definitely not wanting to buy new tho. Why not? You could consider a hatch or wagon Hyundai or Kia. New, they're fairly inexpensive and I believe they carry a long warranty. Of course, you could also consider a used one. Make sure the warranty remains in force. >> I'm definitely not wanting to buy new tho. > >Why not? You could consider a hatch or wagon Hyundai or Kia. New, they're >fairly inexpensive and I believe they carry a long warranty. I just didn't think I could buy new for any less than say 15k right now And I really don't have that much money this year. Other expenses coming up...college tuition, etc Are you saying that its perfectly feasible to buy a GOOD hatchback vehicle brand new for say 10k? >Are you saying that its perfectly feasible to buy a >GOOD hatchback vehicle brand new for say 10k? Local newspaper had a Ford dealer advertising new 2006 Focus ZX3 hatchback base model cars for $9988 (5 at this price).  Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------ Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message. >Local newspaper had a Ford dealer advertising new 2006 Focus ZX3 >hatchback base model cars for $9988 (5 at this price). wow not a bad deal huh! >>Local newspaper had a Ford dealer advertising new 2006 Focus ZX3 >>hatchback base model cars for $9988 (5 at this price). > > wow > > not a bad deal huh! A Focus at any price is a bad deal. > A Focus at any price is a bad deal. Why do you say that? I've read good things about them (expecially the ZX3 hatchback) in the car magazines. I rented one several months ago and thought it was a kick in the a.s to drive: great acceleration and sharp handling. The only downside I recall hearing about is that because the Focus has a low final-drive ratio (one reason for the quick acceleration), they're a bit noisy at freeway speeds. But since I didn't drive my rental on the freeway, I can't comment on that one way or the other. Have there been long-term reliability problems with the Focus? Incidentally, another small American car I rented that impressed me is the new Chevrolet Cobalt. It seemed well put together, was fun to drive, and is a damned sight better than the car it replaces, the Cavalier. But there's no hatchback version... Geoff Signature"'The meek shall inherit the earth?' Not on *my* watch!" -- G. Gordon Liddy Don't you realize in this NG EVERY vehicle is inferior to ANY Toyota, just ask them. LOL mike hunt >> A Focus at any price is a bad deal. > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Geoff >> A Focus at any price is a bad deal. > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >sight better than the car it replaces, the Cavalier. >But there's no hatchback version... They started out real bad, lots of recalls.. BUT after all the recalls were done, Ford fixed it all and the latest models are one of the best buys you can get. Very reliable and cheap. A great economy car. > They started out real bad, lots of recalls.. BUT after all the recalls > were done, Ford fixed it all and the latest models are one of the best > buys you can get. Very reliable and cheap. A great economy car. But let's just see how the newer models hold up in the long run. Also, Focus' gas mileage is about the same as the Matrix, but not as good as the Corolla. >> They started out real bad, lots of recalls.. BUT after all the recalls >> were done, Ford fixed it all and the latest models are one of the best [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Also, Focus' gas mileage is about the same as the Matrix, but not as good as >the Corolla. Then again, which DOES get better mileage than the corolla ? (non hybrid) >>> They started out real bad, lots of recalls.. BUT after all the recalls >>> were done, Ford fixed it all and the latest models are one of the best [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Then again, which DOES get better mileage than the corolla ? (non > hybrid) You can go to http://www.fueleconomy.gov/ and compare. It looks like only the Yaris gets better fuel economy than the Corolla with a manual transmission unless you opt for a diesel engine or hybrid. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >>Local newspaper had a Ford dealer advertising new 2006 Focus ZX3 >>hatchback base model cars for $9988 (5 at this price). > >wow > >not a bad deal huh! If you are only gonna keep it thru the warranty period....a great deal... If, like me, you keep a car till the wheels fall off....that would be a terrible deal. SignatureScott in Florida You forgot to say in my opinion. It was the Corolla that has the big recalled for wheels that could fall off. There are a lot of original Focus still running around. The courier fleets liked their Focus better than the Corollas they owned. mike hunt >>>Local newspaper had a Ford dealer advertising new 2006 Focus ZX3 >>>hatchback base model cars for $9988 (5 at this price). [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > If, like me, you keep a car till the wheels fall off....that would be > a terrible deal. > >> I'm definitely not wanting to buy new tho. > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Are you saying that its perfectly feasible to buy a > GOOD hatchback vehicle brand new for say 10k? The Chevy Aveo was advertised in the paper over the weekend for $9K or so. It's some sort of hatchback, built by Daewoo of South Korea. I would not necessarily recommend the Aveo. However, if I were you, I'd consider what else is available new. The Kia and/or Hyundais offer low prices and impressive warranties. You could consider a loan over a longer period of time, if the car is backed by a solid warranty. If you're cash-strapped and expect to be so for a while, I'd prefer not to face unexpected expenses. A good warranty might help you there. You can probably expect a Kia or Hyundai to still hold some value 6 years from now. If you have $8-9K in cash for a car, now, consider putting $4K down and financing the rest over a few years. This would be low payments, which you could meet out of your cash reserve, if necessary, for a couple of years. You might get low-interest financing from the manufacturer. You could also consider the new Toyota Yaris. It starts at $12K or so. Again, you might need a loan, but at the end of a few years, chances are good that the car will be worth something and still reliable. Also consider the Scions (a little more) and the Honda Fit (even more). Is a new car right for you? I don't know. However, if you're thinking of $8-9K, for a little more money, you have a variety of new-car choices. Buying used, you could be buying trouble. A new car comes with some protection that a used car does not have. Can you get credit? That will be an important question. A car loan could also help establish credit. Watch out for interest rates, hidden fees, etc. Be prepared to walk at any time, if there's fees or dollars on the deal you didn't expect. Check with BBB before going to a dealer. Actually the Aveo is a Suzuki, that is built in plants that were formally owned by Daewoo and now owned by GM. mike hunt > <me@privacy.net> wrote in message > The Chevy Aveo was advertised in the paper over the weekend for $9K or so. > It's some sort of hatchback, built by Daewoo of South Korea. > Actually the Aveo is a Suzuki, that is built in plants that were formally > owned by Daewoo and now owned by GM. > > mike hunt http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/chevrolet/aveo/100565684/researchlanding.html Introduction: Chevrolet and General Motors as a whole have long known they do not have a credible offering in the low-priced subcompact segment. Enter the Chevrolet Aveo. The Aveo is the result of GM's acquisition of Daewoo Motor Company and is essentially a rebadged Daewoo Kalos, a car already on sale in other markets around the world. No mention of Suzuki there. > > <me@privacy.net> wrote in message > > > The Chevy Aveo was advertised in the paper over the weekend for $9K or so. > > It's some sort of hatchback, built by Daewoo of South Korea. > No mention of Suzuki there. Guess they didn't want to waste the verbiage. http://cars.about.com/cs/testdrives/fr/Suzuswift_test.htm (It) began life as a Daewoo product but when GM bought the company the Swift+/Aveo was updated mechanically by Suzuki, given a style refresher by Italy's Giugiaro/ItalDesign, had its development overseen by General Motors engineers in Detroit. A global product if there ever was one! Suzuki, in case, you're not aware, is also a GM subsidiary, which explains the Aveo connection. He said, 'you're' not aware, I guess the post was directed to you ;) mike hunt >> No mention of Suzuki there. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Suzuki, in case, you're not aware, is also a GM subsidiary, which > explains the Aveo connection. Typical reply. That your problem, you like to comment on every post, and find fault with what is posted, without first doing a search to find out if what you BELIEVE is actually true. There is a name for people like that LOL mike hunt >> Actually the Aveo is a Suzuki, that is built in plants that were formally >> owned by Daewoo and now owned by GM. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com *** > Typical reply. That your problem, you like to comment on every post, and > find fault with what is posted, without first doing a search to find out if > what you BELIEVE is actually true. There is a name for people like that > LOL > mike hunt I checked a source that was incomplete. Thanks to Travis Jordan, I now know the information was incomplete. As he said, there was apparently little incentive to waste verbiage explaining the genesis of the Aveo. I've driven one and I can certainly understand an aversion to wasting resources on the Aveo. > >> Actually the Aveo is a Suzuki, that is built in plants that were formally > >> owned by Daewoo and now owned by GM. > >> > >> mike hunt http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/chevrolet/aveo/100565684/researchlanding.html > > Introduction: Chevrolet and General Motors as a whole have long known they > > do not have a credible offering in the low-priced subcompact segment. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > > > *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com *** > You could consider a hatch or wagon Hyundai or Kia. Which models? "DH" <dh@stargate.com> wrote: >> You could consider a hatch or wagon Hyundai or Kia. <me@privacy.net> replies: > Which models? Look at Hyundai's and Kia's Web sites! Take a gander at autotrader.com or cars.com and look at listings for used examples of these (and other) manu- facturers' respective models, to get an idea of which ones might suit your needs and how much you can expect to spend on them. Then, once you've narrowed your solections down a bit, look for newsgroups (like this one) and Web fora that are devoted to the various makes, and ask people who own these cars what they think of them, what their strong and weak points are, etc. Geoff Signature"'The meek shall inherit the earth?' Not on *my* watch!" -- G. Gordon Liddy > > >The /Matrix/Vibe wasn't introduced until the 2003 model year. > > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Of course, you could also consider a used one. Make sure the warranty > remains in force. Aren't the Suzuki models fairly cheap? >> > >The /Matrix/Vibe wasn't introduced until the 2003 model year. >> > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >> > Aren't the Suzuki models fairly cheap? The biggest challenge to purchasing a new Suzuki is a limited dealer service network. The OP could consider a Scion xA - low price, hatchback, Toyota dealer network, and Toyota quality. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >The OP could consider a Scion xA - low price, hatchback, Toyota dealer >network, and Toyota quality. There is also the Yaris hatchback. Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------ Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message. >The biggest challenge to purchasing a new Suzuki is a limited dealer service >network. agree As well as Toyota dealers infamous add-on pricing ;) mike hunt >>> > >The /Matrix/Vibe wasn't introduced until the 2003 model year. >>> > > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > The OP could consider a Scion xA - low price, hatchback, Toyota dealer > network, and Toyota quality. >The /Matrix/Vibe wasn't introduced until the 2003 model year. > >Here in Florida a fair condition, 50K mile 4DR FWD Vibe (the base >models, not the GT or 4WD versions) would go for about 9K from a private >party. Mabye $500 more for the Matrix. is it a good vehicle over all? Search nadaguides.com for the current pricing, WBMA The Vibe sells for thousands less new, when similarly equipped, than the Matrix so you can assume it will cost somewhat less used as well I find it odd you could carry nothing in you Mazda. How much room do you need to carry 'nothing?' One would think carrying 'anything' would be the problem. mike hunt > I'm gonna sell my 2000 Mazda Protege to my nephew in > college for abt $6k [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Id like to not have anything older than 5 years if > possible > Search nadaguides.com for the current pricing, WBMA The Vibe sells for > thousands less new, when similarly equipped, than the Matrix so you can > assume it will cost somewhat less used as well You should try to keep your misinformation all in one spot for the convenience of those who actually look things up. Nadaguides contradicts you on the new price. The Vibe is more expensive when new. [snip condescending BS from...] > mike hunt > > I'm gonna sell my 2000 Mazda Protege to my nephew in > > college for abt $6k [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Id like to not have anything older than 5 years if > > possible The magic word is 'sells,' in the sentence 'The Vibe sells for thousands less new, when similarly equipped, than the Matrix ;) mike hunt >> Search nadaguides.com for the current pricing, WBMA The Vibe sells for >> thousands less new, when similarly equipped, than the Matrix so you can [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com *** > The magic word is 'sells,' in the sentence 'The Vibe sells for thousands > less new, when similarly equipped, than the Matrix ;) > > mike hunt Don't come whining back here with that. You referred us to Nadaguides. I looked. You're wrong. Why don't you just set up your own web site, call it "misinformation.com," and put up whatever numbers you like? That way you'll have an "authoritative" source on the 'net that, finally, agrees with you. Just remember to get back to it and change the numbers when you contrradict yourself. > >> Search nadaguides.com for the current pricing, WBMA The Vibe sells for > >> thousands less new, when similarly equipped, than the Matrix so you can [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > > > *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com *** Wrong about what? Have you ever tried to get a drive home price for both, to know for sure that you are not wrong? Every time I ever compared Edmonds Toyota prices, in the market place, they were always lower than the price the dealer wanted me to pay to drive the car home, and the prices did not include financing, since I write checks. mike hunt >> The magic word is 'sells,' in the sentence 'The Vibe sells for thousands >> less new, when similarly equipped, than the Matrix ;) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Don't come whining back here with that. You referred us to Nadaguides. I > looked. You're wrong. > Wrong about what? Have you ever tried to get a drive home price for both, > to know for sure that you are not wrong? Every time I ever compared Edmonds [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > mike hunt Why would I waste a couple of salespeople's time doing that? Their time is valuable to them. People use things like Edmunds because they provide a valuable service. If they provided inaccurate information, they'd be gone. I'm supposed to believe YOU? Ha! I bought my first Toyota because it was LESS than the comparable Chevy/Chrysler. It's still worth a lot of money. Toyota gives you excellent value and Edmunds' figures reflect this. They hold their value well and Edmunds' figures reflect this. > >> The magic word is 'sells,' in the sentence 'The Vibe sells for thousands > >> less new, when similarly equipped, than the Matrix ;) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Don't come whining back here with that. You referred us to Nadaguides. I > > looked. You're wrong. That is what I expected, obviously you do not know that Edmonds site does not reflect actual drive home prices, only selling prices. If you did try to verify the total drive home pricing is in fact far different than selling prices, you would realize that fact. I never said Edmunds did not provide accurate information, I have simply been tiring to point out to you their service does not provide total drive home pricing, nor could they. If you ever compared drive home prices between three different dealership, on the exact same vehicle, you would know there is always a difference in the total drive home price even on the same car. It appears you would rather continue to believe what you want to believe rather than become enlightened as to what happens in the real world. ;) mike hunt >> Wrong about what? Have you ever tried to get a drive home price for >> both, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Why would I waste a couple of salespeople's time doing that? > That is what I expected, obviously you do not know that Edmonds site does > not reflect actual drive home prices, only selling prices. If you did try [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > know there is always a difference in the total drive home price even on the > same car. "... tiring to point out..." Well, you're right about that. > It appears you would rather continue to believe what you want to believe > rather than become enlightened as to what happens in the real world. ;) > > mike hunt OK, so I wasted a couple of guys' time on this. The Toyota's cheaper. GM has some sort of "conquest" rebate going for $1K (I'd have to demonstrate I'm switching "back" to GM by purchasing what is essentially a Toyota with a Pontiac sticker on its nose), plus $500 for something else. The $1K rebate does NOT appear on Edmunds. The Toyota still ended up cheaper but not by as much as I expected. Happy now? > >> Wrong about what? Have you ever tried to get a drive home price for > >> both, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > > > Why would I waste a couple of salespeople's time doing that? I'm not surprised Edmonds did not include the $1,000 rebate. I told you one can not rely on Edmunds to even get a true selling price, let alone a total drive home price. What equipment on each and was the total drive home price for each and what all was included in that price? mike hunt >> It appears you would rather continue to believe what you want to believe >> rather than become enlightened as to what happens in the real world. ;) [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Happy now? > I'm not surprised Edmonds did not include the $1,000 rebate. I told you one > can not rely on Edmunds to even get a true selling price, let alone a total > drive home price. What equipment on each and was the total drive home price > for each and what all was included in that price? > > mike hunt The Vibe had no options at all and the Matrix offered $500 or so in various things. The big picture here is that the Matrix is cheaper, which was my original assertion. > >> It appears you would rather continue to believe what you want to believe > >> rather than become enlightened as to what happens in the real world. ;) [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > > > Happy now? > The magic word is 'sells,' in the sentence 'The Vibe sells for thousands > less new, when similarly equipped, than the Matrix ;) > > mike hunt By the way, on 5/22 at 1532, you posted this: > All of those things add to the selling price. That is a reason the Vibe > outsells the Matrix by big numbers And you've been remarkably quiet about that piece of "information" since. I presume this is because you noticed Travis Jordan's post on 5/23 at 1402, titled "For the record: 2005 Toyota Matrix Outsold Pontiac Vibe" which included supporting evidence. Or, perhaps you noticed the recent decision by Pontiac to cut two variants of the Vibe from their lineup because of slow sales? Am I to presume since the Matrix outsells the Vibe, that the sales volume is further evidence that the "total drive home price" of the Matrix is actuallly lower? Or are you now going to ignore your previous specious reasoning? > >> Search nadaguides.com for the current pricing, WBMA The Vibe sells for > >> thousands less new, when similarly equipped, than the Matrix so you can [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > > > *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com *** Aparently my source of the sales figues was not correct, or they refered to sales in the US alone, I don't know mike hunt >> The magic word is 'sells,' in the sentence 'The Vibe sells for thousands >> less new, when similarly equipped, than the Matrix ;) [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > actuallly lower? Or are you now going to ignore your previous specious > reasoning? > And you've been remarkably quiet about that piece of "information" Gee, and I thought his absence was just because I *plonked* him. I probably got ripped off but, I had bad credit and it was my first car buying experience. I hope it's the last for a while. I got a 2002 Toyota Corolla w/ 61,000 miles for 10k. :( I probably got screwed as I see them new for like $13,000. Ah well, live and learn... and that I did. Good luck on your venture and if you have a Lithia, stay away from them! |
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