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Car Forum / UK Car Forums / 4x4 Cars (UK group) / January 20087 seats 4x4?
I am thinking of buying second hand 4x4 however I want to aim for up to 7 seats. So far, I only know of the following 4x4s that can seat up to 7. If anyone knows of any more models, please feel free to point out any more 4x4s that can seat up to 7. The following 4x4s can seat up to 7 are: Land Rover Discovery Mercedes ML Mercedes GL Nissan Terrano Nissan Pathfinder Toyota LandCruiser If anyone spots any mistakes with any of the above, please feel free to correct me and if anyone knows of any more, please could you tell me what else are there? Many thanks. > I am thinking of buying second hand 4x4 however I want to aim for up to 7 > seats. So far, I only know of the following 4x4s that can seat up to 7. If [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > correct me and if anyone knows of any more, please could you tell me what > else are there? Ford Expedition, Ford Explorer (after 2002, very few in the UK), Nissan Elgrand, Mitsubishi Delica, Toyota Previa. BTW, the Pathfinder is overloaded with three passengers and a couple of suitcases, so it's not such a great choice. %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote in news:1iakyxs.18pw9d31970mekN%% steve%@malloc.co.uk: > Mitsubishi Delica The Delica is the MPV equivalent of the Pajero. Most LWB Pajeros have 7 seats but the Delica has 8 or 9. IIRC, the Mazda Bongo / Ford Freda has 7 seats and (in the auto-free-top version) a double bed "upstairs").  SignatureGeoff > %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote in news:1iakyxs.18pw9d31970mekN%% > steve%@malloc.co.uk: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The Delica is the MPV equivalent of the Pajero. Most LWB Pajeros have 7 > seats but the Delica has 8 or 9. Indeed, but that means it has seven seats, doesn't it? > IIRC, the Mazda Bongo / Ford Freda has 7 seats and (in the auto-free-top > version) a double bed "upstairs"). Have to be careful that it's a 4x4 though, and the same goes for the Elgrand. %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote in news:1iall9i.16flz5w1ur0hloN%% steve%@malloc.co.uk: >> The Delica is the MPV equivalent of the Pajero. Most LWB Pajeros have 7 >> seats but the Delica has 8 or 9. > > Indeed, but that means it has seven seats, doesn't it? Indeed! but the Delica having 8 or 9 means you get the option of seating 7 people while still having a reasonably sized "boot". OTOH, most 7-seat 4x4s don't give you a lot of space for shopping etc. with all 7 seats in use. IIRC the LWB Nissan Patrol also offers 7 seats. >> IIRC, the Mazda Bongo / Ford Freda has 7 seats and (in the auto-free-top >> version) a double bed "upstairs". > > Have to be careful that it's a 4x4 though, and the same goes for the > Elgrand. I suspect this also goes for the Toyota Previa/Estima. On the subject of MPVs that have 4x4 versions, IIRC there are 4x4 versions of the Ford Galaxy / Seat Alhambra / VW Sharan. SignatureGeoff > On the subject of MPVs that have 4x4 versions, IIRC there are 4x4 versions > of the Ford Galaxy / Seat Alhambra / VW Sharan. Not of the Alhambra AFAIR. I've seen 4x4 versions of the Sharan (badged 4-Motion) they are very popular as minbuses at ski resorts in Austria and Switzerland. >> On the subject of MPVs that have 4x4 versions, IIRC there are 4x4 >> versions of the Ford Galaxy / Seat Alhambra / VW Sharan. > > Not of the Alhambra AFAIR. I've seen 4x4 versions of the Sharan > (badged 4-Motion) they are very popular as minbuses at ski resorts in > Austria and Switzerland. Oops! Perhaps not in UK, but 4x4 Alhambras are available in other European countries (including Austria and Switzerland). I knew about the Galaxy 4x4 and that Sharan and Alhambra are basically the same car, so did a quick 'net search to check that some references to 4x4 Sharans and Alhambras came back. http://www.blueboxrent.com/Seat-Alhambra-4x4-TDi.36.1.html was the first to come back from repeating the search for "Alhambra 4x4". SignatureGeoff > >> On the subject of MPVs that have 4x4 versions, IIRC there are 4x4 > >> versions of the Ford Galaxy / Seat Alhambra / VW Sharan. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Oops! Perhaps not in UK, but 4x4 Alhambras are available in other European > countries (including Austria and Switzerland). Oh righty ho, never seen them over there. And when I looked for a 4x4 Alhambra/Galaxy a couple of years ago both Ford and Seat (UK) dealers told me no such thing existed. That's one reason I've stuck with Exploders, and been hacked off that Ford don't import the current US model which has Zafira-style seven seat accomodation. Steve Firth (%steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth)) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: >> >> On the subject of MPVs that have 4x4 versions, IIRC there are 4x4 >> >> versions of the Ford Galaxy / Seat Alhambra / VW Sharan. >> > Not of the Alhambra AFAIR. I've seen 4x4 versions of the Sharan >> > (badged 4-Motion) they are very popular as minbuses at ski resorts in >> > Austria and Switzerland. >> Oops! Perhaps not in UK, but 4x4 Alhambras are available in other >> European countries (including Austria and Switzerland). > Oh righty ho, never seen them over there. And when I looked for a 4x4 > Alhambra/Galaxy a couple of years ago both Ford and Seat (UK) dealers > told me no such thing existed. Did VW import the 4x4? "Doesn't exist" from a UK dealer just means "doesn't exist here". Since all three are built in the same factory and only differ very slightly in detail spec, I'd be surprised if all three weren't 4x4 for some market somewhere. I've got an Isuzu Bighorn (Trooper) 3.1TD auto. It has seven forward facing seats and an engine that will pull a house down. Huge truck at sensible running costs (27+mpg daily use). Much more reliable than anything from the Landrover stable - and parts available from Isuzu and Vauxhall (Monterey) > I am thinking of buying second hand 4x4 however I want to aim for up to 7 > seats. So far, I only know of the following 4x4s that can seat up to 7. If [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Many thanks. Jack <tango.main@btinternet.com> wibbled > I am thinking of buying second hand 4x4 however I want to aim for up > to 7 seats. So far, I only know of the following 4x4s that can seat > up to 7. If anyone knows of any more models, please feel free to > point out any more 4x4s that can seat up to 7. A lot depends upon what you actually want the 4x4 for. If it's to carry 7 in comfort and with luggage then it narrows it down a lot. If it's to normally carry four/five with an occasional couple extra then almost anything will suit. If you want to take a full complement of passengers off-road then it narrows again. Useage means a lot more than simply the number of available seats. SignatureDog Poop Away from home. Jack <tango.main@btinternet.com> wibbled > I am thinking of buying second hand 4x4 however I want to aim for up > to 7 seats. So far, I only know of the following 4x4s that can seat > up to 7. If anyone knows of any more models, please feel free to > point out any more 4x4s that can seat up to 7. >>>>A lot depends upon what you actually want the 4x4 for. If it's to carry 7 in comfort and with luggage then it narrows it down a lot. If it's to normally carry four/five with an occasional couple extra then almost anything will suit. If you want to take a full complement of passengers off-road then it narrows again. >>>>Useage means a lot more than simply the number of available seats. Yes, of course, it all depends on what I want to use a 4x4 for but it do not matter much anyway, there's a limited number of 4x4s capable of seating up to 7 and I now found out that there are only roughly 10 of them so far. I don't have much of a choice but to pick one anyway. Well, like you said, "almost anything will suit" as I am a single parent with two kids and need it mainly for general everyday use, with the two seats folded down or removed. And I have a close friend who is a single mother with 3 kids, so if I want to invite her and her kids with us on a outing, then that's where the extra 2 seats come in. Jack ("Jack" <tango.main@btinternet.com>) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: > Yes, of course, it all depends on what I want to use a 4x4 for but it do > not matter much anyway, there's a limited number of 4x4s capable of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > mother with 3 kids, so if I want to invite her and her kids with us on a > outing, then that's where the extra 2 seats come in. OK, but you're still missing a bit of the point, I think. Do you _need_ 4x4? If so, what do you need that for? Just for occasional on-road extra grip? Or for off-road use? If you _don't_ need off-road ability, then you'd find life a LOT easier opening your choices out to include people carriers, some of would have awd, especially if you're happy to consider a Jap-spec import - but do you even need that? If we go back to your original list, there's absolutely no indication of your other, probably more important, buying criteria - budget. Even the newest, tidiest, most specced-up Terrano wouldn't trouble a five figure ceiling - and oldies would start at a couple of grand or less. Likewise "Land Rover Discovery" covers everything from a brand new Disco 3 to a shed of a G-reg 200TDi - but I doubt you'd find any Merc GL for less than about £40k. >>>>Yes, of course, it all depends on what I want to use a 4x4 for but it do not matter much anyway, there's a limited number of 4x4s capable of seating up to 7 and I now found out that there are only roughly 10 of them so far. I don't have much of a choice but to pick one anyway. >>>>Well, like you said, "almost anything will suit" as I am a single parent with two kids and need it mainly for general everyday use, with the two seats folded down or removed. And I have a close friend who is a single mother with 3 kids, so if I want to invite her and her kids with us on a outing, then that's where the extra 2 seats come in. >>OK, but you're still missing a bit of the point, I think. I don't think I missed the point. I can't order a squadron of bombers if I want to use them for dogfight. I can't order a squadron of fighters if I want to bomb an emery warship. So, each 4x4 vehicle is more suited to a style of driving. Therefore the point is what kind of driving do I do and depending on what kind of driving I do, the question is do I really need a 4x4? Isn't that the point? (Or am I wrong???) >>Do you _need_ 4x4? If so, what do you need that for? Just for occasional on-road extra grip? Or for off-road use? What I need is something higher than a car because of my height so a 4x4 or a MPV or something similar would do. However I have been a passenger in a friend's MPV (It was an Espace) and I'm uncomfy with a MPV so that leaves a 4x4. Beside, a MPV is more suited to a large family at most times, I have a small family and only need two extra seats when I occasionally ask my close friend and her kids out. Most of the outings I go to with my kids (or ever with her and her kids) are the sort of places where fields are being used as car parks. (Example: Outdoor events) and not only that but we do go out to the countryside. Also, when my kids are staying at my ex-wife's for the night, I like to drive out to the countryside, to get to look at the stars. So there will be some little off-road driving needed. Look, I have been doing some thinking and for me personally, I would prefer a 4x4. I drove my close friend's 4x4 for a bit and it feels a bit better than my car. I aim of for ANY 4x4 that have up to 7 seats. All I want to do is to find out what 7 seats 4x4s there are out there then I'll worry about which one would be more suitable for my needs. Thanks to some of the guys who posted replies to my question, I now found out that there are 9 models to choose from. Jack <tango.main@btinternet.com> wibbled something like: >>>>> Yes, of course, it all depends on what I want to use a 4x4 for >>>>> but it do [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > Thanks to some of the guys who posted replies to my question, I now > found out that there are 9 models to choose from. OK. We have two adults and two children and a Landrover Discovery 3 door 300 Tdi '96/'97 model (P reg). We almost always travel in it as a family, if we're going out somewhere we invariably take at least one friend each for the boys, so the two extra seats in the boot are used frequently. With six of us in it there's still reasonable luggage space. With seven in the luggage space is pretty limited, though the footwells in the rear are good and the spaces under the seats in the rear are also larger than they look, IYSWIM. It's sat on the drive most of the week, used almost exclusively now only at weekends, is ten years old and isn't worth more than two grand, I guess. But it's great. It tows our caravan with seven people and four bikes with ease, it'll tow anything (in the trailer) from the garden/small-holding to the tip/recycle centre, willl cope with almost any furniture when seats are packed away or folded over and is an extremely versatile all-rounder. Cheapish to buy nowadays, cheapish to run (we run on veg oil/diesel mix) and a doddle to maintain as ours doesn't have the ECU or fly-by-wire stuff of the more modern Discos. It's feckin' ace off-road, where it spends a lot of it's time, though we have larger tyres on it and various guards and other stff to make off-roading safer and more reliable. I'd recommend a Disco to anyone who needs a vehicle to do more than the usual 'car stuff'. If you ever want to go off-road the standard Disco is still way better than almost any other make of 4x4, but if you never want to venture off-road then it's, IMHO, still a damn fine bit of kit, which can be made even better for totally road-based work very easily. (Road oriented tyres, stiffer springs, stiffer ARB's etc) In our area there's no hassle from the tree-huggers (rural area) but if you live in a city then I'd suggest that a 4x4 probably isn't the best choice. Almost any large estate would probably suit better, many Volvo's, for example, have seven seats. If you want a 4x4 just because of it's style then I think before long you'll soon be disappointed in it. SignatureDogpoop Stand by me. http://www.glass-uk.org/ > Jack <tango.main@btinternet.com> wibbled >> I am thinking of buying second hand 4x4 however I want to aim for up [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > mother with 3 kids, so if I want to invite her and her kids with us on a > outing, then that's where the extra 2 seats come in. "Only" 10? >>>>Yes, of course, it all depends on what I want to use a 4x4 for but it do not matter much anyway, there's a limited number of 4x4s capable of seating up to 7 and I now found out that there are only roughly 10 of them so far. I don't have much of a choice but to pick one anyway. >>"Only" 10? I said "roughly" After checking for more 4x4s capable of up to 7 seats from some people who posted here and from more dealerships, I found out that now there are: Land Rover Discovery (Not all models) Mercedes ML (Not all models) Mercedes GL Nissan Pathfinder Nissan Patrol Nissan Terrano Toyoah LandCruiser Isuzu Trooper (Not all models) Mitsibushi Shogun So far I managed to find out that there are nine 4x4s capable of seating up to 7. Well, seem close enough, but I need to keep on researching to find out if there are any more. >I am thinking of buying second hand 4x4 however I want to aim for up to 7 > seats. So far, I only know of the following 4x4s that can seat up to 7. If [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Many thanks. Add in to the equation the Audi Q7 Quattro,Audi 100 Avant Quattro, Volvo C70 Volvo XC90, Volvo 850 T5R , Subaru B9 Tribeca Derek Discovery 200Tdi 'Kato' Discovery 300TDi 'Miles' Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate Derek,<del.wattsnospambaby@ntlworld.com> managed to produce the following words of wisdom >> I am thinking of buying second hand 4x4 however I want to aim for up >> to 7 seats. So far, I only know of the following 4x4s that can seat [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> to correct me and if anyone knows of any more, please could you tell >> me what else are there? > Add in to the equation the Audi Q7 Quattro,Audi 100 Avant Quattro, > Volvo C70 Volvo XC90, Volvo 850 T5R , Subaru B9 Tribeca Depends on how much you want to spend really. The problem with 4x4s is the Anti 4x4 mob are gaining in power on a weekly basis, Red Ken is doing what he can to make them as socially unacceptible as he can, and people using them for the School Run are making it worse. I adore my old Range Rover and use it for everything, towing cars and trailers, off roading, as a van for gigs, and soon for a 2000 mile European tour. It's the perfect tool for my work, and one of my favourite cars of all time, but the "Anti 4x4" brigade are making it more difficult in any way possible along with the emissions muppets who conveniently ignore that a 20 year old vehicle, maintained properly and used sparingly is about the most ecologically friendly form of motorised transport there is. The people who are pro-4x4 seem to be judged as a bunch of oily fingered, bearded weirdos or on the same level as the scrotes who race down inner city streets on stolen trail bikes. X5 drivers seem to use theirs solely for either drug dealing or the school run. It's not easy explaining to some people that a 4x4 can be an exceptionally useful and environmentally friendly mode of transport. SignaturePete M - OMF#9 "Save your breath for cooling your porridge! W&P Range Rover V8 Turbo Scorpio Ultima 24v Pete M ("Pete M" <pete.murray@blueSPAMFREEyonder.co.uk>) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: >> Add in to the equation the Audi Q7 Quattro,Audi 100 Avant Quattro, >> Volvo C70 Volvo XC90, Volvo 850 T5R , Subaru B9 Tribeca > Depends on how much you want to spend really. Well, he has got the Merc GL in his original list... Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate Adrian,<toomany2cvs@gmail.com> managed to produce the following words of wisdom > Pete M ("Pete M" <pete.murray@blueSPAMFREEyonder.co.uk>) gurgled > happily, sounding much like they were saying: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Well, he has got the Merc GL in his original list... Troo. I had spotted that but wasn't sure how serious the list was. For a huge 4x4 you can't beat the Ford Excursion. SignaturePete M - OMF#9 "Save your breath for cooling your porridge! W&P Range Rover V8 Turbo Scorpio Ultima 24v Add to the list the Mitsubishi Outlander - very new, so probably minila second hand also Ssang Yong s new range includes several, inlcudiong one which claims to be a 4WD people carrier which will carry 7 AND luggage. > Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate > Adrian,<toomany2cvs@gmail.com> managed to produce the following words [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > For a huge 4x4 you can't beat the Ford Excursion. John Moppett (John Moppett <johnmoppett@btinternet.com>) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: > Add to the list the Mitsubishi Outlander ...and Cit C-Crosser/Pug 4007 clones. > John Moppett (John Moppett <johnmoppett@btinternet.com>) gurgled happily, > sounding much like they were saying: > >> Add to the list the Mitsubishi Outlander > > ...and Cit C-Crosser/Pug 4007 clones. Oh I saw an ad last night the Chevrolet Captiva has 7 seat option as well. is that a Kia or Ssangyong? Derek Derek ("Derek" <del.wattsnospambaby@ntlworld.com>) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: >>> Add to the list the Mitsubishi Outlander >> ...and Cit C-Crosser/Pug 4007 clones. > Oh I saw an ad last night the Chevrolet Captiva has 7 seat option as > well. is that a Kia or Ssangyong? It's a Direwoo.. >>>>Depends on how much you want to spend really. >>Well, he has got the Merc GL in his original list... I did not put the GL on my list due to how much it cost. It was due to the fact that it could seat up to 7. Jack ("Jack" <tango.main@btinternet.com>) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: >>>>>Depends on how much you want to spend really. >>>Well, he has got the Merc GL in his original list... > I did not put the GL on my list due to how much it cost. It was due to > the fact that it could seat up to 7. <rolls eyes> Anyway, did you have the Landie Defender 110 on your list? 9 seats in one of those. > >>>>Depends on how much you want to spend really. > > >>Well, he has got the Merc GL in his original list... > > I did not put the GL on my list due to how much it cost. It was due to the > fact that it could seat up to 7. So can you afford to spend 40K on a car or were you just blowing it out of your arse? If you can't afford a 40K car why are you encouraging people to waste their time recommending vehicles way beyond your budget? >>>>>>>>Depends on how much you want to spend really. >>>>>>Well, he has got the Merc GL in his original list... >>>>I did not put the GL on my list due to how much it cost. It was due to the fact that it could seat up to 7. >>So can you afford to spend 40K on a car or were you just blowing it out of your arse? If you can't afford a 40K car why are you encouraging people to waste their time recommending vehicles way beyond your budget? This is not the point and reason for my list including the GL. All I did was to find out which 4x4s is able to seat up to 7 and make a list. Once I have found out every possible 7 seats 4x4, the next thing I will do is to carry out research on which model would be good for me. I did not know that the GL cost £40,000 until you start mentioning that. Like I said, all I did was to find out every 4x4s that have 7 seats. And no, I am not wasting people’s time. In fact, I wish to thank each and every one of them for actually telling me of any 7 seat 4x4s that I did not know of. >>Depends on how much you want to spend really. I am not after any 7 seats 4x4 depending on the price tag. The first most important thing for me is to find out a range of 7 seats 4x4s then figure out which models would be good for me. Then worry about the costs later. >>The problem with 4x4s is the Anti 4x4 mob are gaining in power on a weekly basis, Red Ken is doing what he can to make them as socially unacceptible as he can, and people using them for the School Run are making it worse. I am aware of this. But if we all stop using 4x4s and start using small cars. Chances are one day in the future, people who are tall, those over 6 feet tall, will have to bend over in order to help their kids put seat belts on, or have to duck when driving, in order to see around ‘cos the rear view mirror blocks part of their view. The more we do this, the worst we’ll do to our backs. One day in the future, there will be tall drivers going to hospitals for appointments due to having bad backs ‘cos of cars with less rooms than 4x4s. In the long run, NHS will end up needing more funds to help cope with this problem. One day taxpayers will complain: “Why can’t you get a big car and sit upright instead of driving a small car which hurts your back?” The answer: “I did! But you won the fight to ban 4x4s!!! Now make up your minds! Do you want us to drive 4x4s or not?!” Part of the reason for why I opt for a 4x4 was due to the need for more leg room, height, and better front view. I can’t use the sun visor when driving my Ford Focus because if I do, it blocks my view then I would duck to see where I am going. I feel like I am driving in a tank in a car, but I tried a test drive of a 4x4 and I feel ever better. I’m sorry those people don’t like 4x4s but they should take it out on the manufactures who made them not on the drivers. > Part of the reason for why I opt for a 4x4 was due to the need for more leg > room, height, and better front view. I can't use the sun visor when driving > my Ford Focus because if I do, it blocks my view then I would duck to see > where I am going. The Focus has about the same head height, windscreen size, seat size and legroom as the average 4x4. The Focus is quite a tall, boxy vehicle for its sector. What it doesn't have is a "f.ck off I'm bigger than you are" driving position, but that's not the same thing. If you simply admitted you want a 4x4 because they appeal to you rather than making up bollocks reasons for having one, you would do better. If you defined a budget you would be doing well. >> Part of the reason for why I opt for a 4x4 was due to the need for >> more leg room, height, and better front view. I can't use the sun [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > vehicle for its sector. What it doesn't have is a "f.ck off I'm bigger > than you are" driving position, but that's not the same thing. For such large vehicles, many 4x4s offer surprisingly cramped driver accommodation. I'm well over 6 ft tall, don't fit behind the wheel of a Defender, just about squeeze behind the wheel of a Disco 1 or 2, and if truth be told could do with an inch or two of extra space in my Pajero. OTOH, the car that I've driven that had the most capacious driver accommodation was a 1980s VW Polo. More recently, I found that a hired Peugeot 208 offered more room for the driver than does my Pajero. I guess that this all boils down to "suck it and see". If you're tall don't write off a car or assume you'll fit from the exterior size - you have to try it on for size to be sure! HTH, SignatureGeoff Geoff Lane <geoff@nospam.invalid> wibbled something like: >>> Part of the reason for why I opt for a 4x4 was due to the need for >>> more leg room, height, and better front view. I can't use the sun [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > a hired Peugeot 208 offered more room for the driver than does my > Pajero. Conversely I'm 5'4", and the Disco suits me perfectly. :) SignatureDogpoop Stand by me. http://www.glass-uk.org/ > The Focus has about the same head height, windscreen size, seat size and > legroom as the average 4x4. Oh come off it. That's plainly not true. I've got a Land Rover and it's got far more room than a Focus in all those areas. Plus, the Focus is horrible to drive - we have them as hire cars for callout jobs at work. The biggest problem with the Focus, is that the seats are really uncomfortable. I had a bad back for a week after driving one from Hampshire up to Manchester, despite re-adjusting the seat about 20 times en route. Plus, the Focus has really bad visibility when coming to junctions and roundabouts. It seems to have a badly designed windscreen/door pillar arrangement. And my Land Rover has about three times the headroom of the Focus and just feels more spacious all round. No comparison in my view. SignatureUsenet replies: To contact me, visit www.vigay.com/feedback/ Life, the Universe, RISC OS Help and Everything - www.vigay.com/ Share and discuss ideas or chat about the above - forum.vigay.com/ Quality Internet, Domain Registration & Hosting - www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/ > And my Land Rover has about three times the headroom of the Focus and just > feels more spacious all round. No comparison in my view. Obviously not a Defender then, bloody cramped ;-) SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! > Obviously not a Defender then, bloody cramped ;-) Discovery! :-) SignatureUsenet replies: To contact me, visit www.vigay.com/feedback/ Life, the Universe, RISC OS Help and Everything - www.vigay.com/ Share and discuss ideas or chat about the above - forum.vigay.com/ Quality Internet, Domain Registration & Hosting - www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/ Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate Paul Vigay,<invalid-email-address@invalid-domain.co.uk> managed to produce the following words of wisdom > In a dim and distant universe > <1iaqn38.5g1wwfgfpqirN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>, Steve Firth [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > And my Land Rover has about three times the headroom of the Focus and > just feels more spacious all round. No comparison in my view. Land Rover 90s have absolutely bugger all legroom though. I'm 6'2" and I can't drive a Land Rover 90 for more than a few miles without suffering. No legroom, no shoulder room and having to duck down to see out of the bloody things. SignaturePete M - OMF#9 "Save your breath for cooling your porridge! W&P Range Rover V8 Turbo Scorpio Ultima 24v > > The Focus has about the same head height, windscreen size, seat size and > > legroom as the average 4x4. > > Oh come off it. That's plainly not true. I've got a Land Rover and it's got > far more room than a Focus in all those areas. Plus, the Focus is horrible > to drive - we have them as hire cars for callout jobs at work. You appear to be suffering from some sort of delusion. The Focus is one of the better handling small cars and Land Rover offer about the most cramped driver experience ever. > You appear to be suffering from some sort of delusion. The Focus is one > of the better handling small cars and Land Rover offer about the most > cramped driver experience ever. I've seen a number of polite posts from you recently Steve, and was worried that you were ill. Nice to see you're well again! He said the focus was horrible to drive, which it is, which doesn't mean it's a bad handling car, just that some people find it unpleasant to drive. As for Land Rover being cramped, my Defender certainly is, no argument there, and now I've got the truck cab on it's even more cramped because the truck cab stops the seat going back much, and it never went back much in the first place... I drove a Discovery 1 once, not so cramped, but *that* was a horrible car to drive.. The Disco 3 and the current Range Rovers don't seem to be cramped. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! > > You appear to be suffering from some sort of delusion. The Focus is one > > of the better handling small cars and Land Rover offer about the most > > cramped driver experience ever. > > I've seen a number of polite posts from you recently Steve, and was > worried that you were ill. Nice to see you're well again! Ah yes, somebody calling me a liar is of course in no way impolite. > He said the focus was horrible to drive, which it is No, that's a load of old bollocks. > which doesn't mean it's a bad handling car, just that some people find it > unpleasant to drive. The same people who think it's trendy to knock any Ford product, no doubt. > Ah yes, somebody calling me a liar is of course in no way impolite. Didn't see me say it was polite.. >> He said the focus was horrible to drive, which it is > > No, that's a load of old bollocks. Whether a car is horrible to drive or not is a matter of *taste*, personally I don't like most modern cars, but like my old audi diesel automatic, believe it or not.. > The same people who think it's trendy to knock any Ford product, no > doubt. They made the GT40 which gives them some leeway for cockup, but I find their cars are on the whole rather dull, same as those from toyota, volkswagen, peugeot, subaru etc etc etc.. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! > Whether a car is horrible to drive or not is a matter of *taste*, No, it's a matter of *prejudice* in this instance, and a warping of the English language to boot. The fact that someone feels uncomortable in a Focus because they don't like to be seen driving a Ford doesn't make a car "horrible to drive". Indeed the Focus isn't by any stretch of the imagination "horrible to drive". If you want horrible to drive, try a Dodge Calibre or a Daewoo (just about any one of them will do) or the current Astra. The Focus is many things, but it's never been "horrible to drive", not even close to it. > If you want horrible to drive, try a Dodge Calibre or a Daewoo (just > about any one of them will do) or the current Astra. The Focus is many > things, but it's never been "horrible to drive", not even close to it. Sorry Steve, but you don't seem to get the difference between opinion and fact, a Focus is a Car for example, that's fact, a Focus is a horrible soul-less device on the other hand, that's opinion, and there's no right or wrong with the latter. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! > > If you want horrible to drive, try a Dodge Calibre or a Daewoo (just > > about any one of them will do) or the current Astra. The Focus is many > > things, but it's never been "horrible to drive", not even close to it. > > Sorry Steve, but you don't seem to get the difference between opinion > and fact I know the difference perfectly well, thank you. >, a Focus is a Car for example, that's fact, a Focus is a horrible >soul-less device on the other hand, that's opinion, and there's no >right or wrong with the latter. And that's bullshit. Opinon can be incorrect and the "opinion" you are expressing is incorrect. The fact that it's simply the usual, somewhat tedious, Ford knocking bollocks is simply tiresome. Trying to exempt your statements from criticism by stating that they are only opinion is most amusing. > I know the difference perfectly well, thank you. Plainly not! > And that's bullshit. Opinon can be incorrect and the "opinion" you are > expressing is incorrect. The fact that it's simply the usual, somewhat > tedious, Ford knocking bollocks is simply tiresome. Fanboy! > Trying to exempt your statements from criticism by stating that they are > only opinion is most amusing. You really don't know the difference do you.. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate Steve Firth,<%steve%@malloc.co.uk> managed to produce the following words of wisdom >>> If you want horrible to drive, try a Dodge Calibre or a Daewoo (just >>> about any one of them will do) or the current Astra. The Focus is [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Trying to exempt your statements from criticism by stating that they > are only opinion is most amusing. I have to say I agree with Steve when it comes to the Focus being good to drive. I'm in the motor trade and deal with everything from the humblest Daewoo to the snazziest Porsches and the Focus is one of the nicest things out there to drive - of any size. It's far and away the best in its group to own and drive. I have to note that I'm not a Ford dealer.. SignaturePete M - OMF#9 "Save your breath for cooling your porridge! W&P Range Rover V8 Turbo Scorpio Ultima 24v > I have to say I agree with Steve when it comes to the Focus being good to > drive. Where I disagree with Steve is that he thinks *everyone* finds the focus being a nice car to drive and anyone who doesn't like it is a liar. He thinks his opinions are facts. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate Ian Rawlings,<news06@tarcus.org.uk> managed to produce the following words of wisdom >> I have to say I agree with Steve when it comes to the Focus being >> good to drive. > > Where I disagree with Steve is that he thinks *everyone* finds the > focus being a nice car to drive and anyone who doesn't like it is a > liar. He thinks his opinions are facts. You're right enough that not everyone likes the Focus. When they were first released I was running a car hire fleet which still had some Escorts. The first time any of us drove a Focus we put all the Escorts up for sale but people would still come in saying they'd rather hire an Escort or Golf than a Focus. We thought they were clearly benefitting from "Care in the community" but it's horses for courses innit?. Ford have made some awful cars in the past, but the Focus is definately not one of them. I'd rather drive a Mk1 Focus than a new VW Golf or pretty much anything else of its size. SignaturePete M - OMF#9 "Save your breath for cooling your porridge! W&P Range Rover V8 Turbo Scorpio Ultima 24v > Ford have made some awful cars in the past, but the Focus is definately not > one of them. I'd rather drive a Mk1 Focus than a new VW Golf or pretty much > anything else of its size. I'm quite sure that the focus is probably a good car by modern car standards (I remember it getting good reviews), but subjectivity and not objectivity is the rule when it comes to whether a person thinks a car is nice to drive or not. Personally I've never driven that class of car and liked it, I like my cars either very sporty, very agricultural or more cosseting like a well-trimmed Audi (even an old one). So to me, the focus is a horrible car to drive, I had one as a courtesy car and was glad to get back to my rattly old Audi 1.9 TDi. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! > > I have to say I agree with Steve when it comes to the Focus being good to > > drive. > > Where I disagree with Steve is that he thinks *everyone* finds the > focus being a nice car to drive and anyone who doesn't like it is a > liar. No I don't and I've said no such thing. > He thinks his opinions are facts. That would be you, the one making up complete bullshit and then claiming that it is something that I think. When did you become a mind reader? >> > I have to say I agree with Steve when it comes to the Focus being good to >> > drive. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > No I don't and I've said no such thing. You've said that anyone who thinks a ford focus is a horrible car is wrong and a ford-beater, despite it plainly being a matter of taste and not fact, the rest is less of an extrapolation than those you've leapt at in this thread. > That would be you, the one making up complete bullshit and then claiming > that it is something that I think. When did you become a mind reader? I can read my own mind, you it seems can't see into your own. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! > >> > I have to say I agree with Steve when it comes to the Focus being good to > >> > drive. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > and not fact, the rest is less of an extrapolation than those you've > leapt at in this thread. The statement above is a complete load of old bollocks. > > That would be you, the one making up complete bullshit and then claiming > > that it is something that I think. When did you become a mind reader? > > I can read my own mind, you it seems can't see into your own. And more complete shite from you. Here's a clue, get a clue. > And more complete shite from you. Here's a clue, get a clue. That's more like the steve we know, talking shite and claiming everyone else is ;-) Glad to see your previous politeness was just a passing phase. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! > > And more complete shite from you. Here's a clue, get a clue. > > That's more like the steve we know, talking shite and claiming > everyone else is ;-) Glad to see your previous politeness was just a > passing phase. A point so stupid that you had to remove evidence of your stupidity before making it. Well done, you pathetic arsewipe. > A point so stupid that you had to remove evidence of your stupidity > before making it. Well done, you pathetic arsewipe. You just have to get the last word eh steve, pity you waste them as usual! Go on, let someone else have the last word for a change! (I wonder how long I can string this out for) SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! Pete M ("Pete M" <pete.murray@blueSPAMFREEyonder.co.uk>) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: > I have to say I agree with Steve when it comes to the Focus being good > to drive. I'm in the motor trade and deal with everything from the > humblest Daewoo to the snazziest Porsches and the Focus is one of the > nicest things out there to drive - of any size. It's far and away the > best in its group to own and drive. A colleague has an S-reg 1.8 Ghia estate. Had it for years. He _hates_ it - to the point where he actually prefers driving his wife's 1.9D ZX. > Pete M ("Pete M" <pete.murray@blueSPAMFREEyonder.co.uk>) gurgled happily, > sounding much like they were saying: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > He _hates_ it - to the point where he actually prefers driving his wife's > 1.9D ZX. He's perfectly welcome to hate it, it doesn't mean that it's "horrible" or even "bad" to drive. It's neither of those things. As Pete says, it's much better than the Golf to drive, indeed it's far better than the majority of small hatchbacks. Just as the Mondeo is one of the best medium sized saloons to drive at the moment. It doesn't stop the blinkered from making moronic statements or stop them from hating the car. It doesn't make their hatred objective or even well founded. > majority of small hatchbacks. Just as the Mondeo is one of the best > medium sized saloons to drive at the moment. It doesn't stop the > blinkered from making moronic statements or stop them from hating the > car. It doesn't make their hatred objective or even well founded. I'll agree with that bit. I like the Mondeo. In fact my non 4x4 is a Mondeo and it's a pleasure to drive - so I'm no Ford hater. However, I do intensely dislike the Focus because, for me, it's very uncomfortable and I can't seem to get the seat adjustment right - and there's a severe blind spot between the windscreen and the drivers door, which makes pulling out of junctions and going round roundabouts irritating to me. SignatureUsenet replies: To contact me, visit www.vigay.com/feedback/ Life, the Universe, RISC OS Help and Everything - www.vigay.com/ Share and discuss ideas or chat about the above - forum.vigay.com/ Quality Internet, Domain Registration & Hosting - www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/ > He's perfectly welcome to hate it, it doesn't mean that it's "horrible" > or even "bad" to drive. Subjective.. Look it up steve! You're always waffling on about your scientific credentials, sure you're not mis-spelling scientologist? > It doesn't stop the blinkered from making moronic statements Nothing can stop you steve! SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! > > He's perfectly welcome to hate it, it doesn't mean that it's "horrible" > > or even "bad" to drive. > > Subjective.. Look it up steve! You're always waffling on about your > scientific credentials, More lies. > sure you're not mis-spelling scientologist? I'm sure you're an idiot. > > It doesn't stop the blinkered from making moronic statements > > Nothing can stop you steve! Blah, blah, blah... > I'm sure you're an idiot. If I'm an idiot, how come I can tell the difference between subjective and objective, unlike your finely tuned brain.. > Blah, blah, blah... More sense than usual.. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! > > I'm sure you're an idiot. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > More sense than I usually post. Indeed. >> More sense than I usually post. > > Indeed. Oh steve, that was so funny! Someone hold my sides lest they split. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! In a dim and distant universe <1iarssb.13rdxcg12u0ftgN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> enlightened us thusly: > You appear to be suffering from some sort of delusion. The Focus is one > of the better handling small cars and Land Rover offer about the most > cramped driver experience ever. Certainly not in my experience, of extensive driving of both. SignatureUsenet replies: To contact me, visit www.vigay.com/feedback/ Life, the Universe, RISC OS Help and Everything - www.vigay.com/ Share and discuss ideas or chat about the above - forum.vigay.com/ Quality Internet, Domain Registration & Hosting - www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/ > In a dim and distant universe > <1iarssb.13rdxcg12u0ftgN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Certainly not in my experience, of extensive driving of both. Yes dear, but hours spent in front of Grand Playstation Touring Cars GTA don't count. >>>>The Focus has about the same head height, windscreen size, seat size and legroom as the average 4x4. >>Oh come off it. That's plainly not true. I've got a Land Rover and it's got far more room than a Focus in all those areas. Plus, the Focus is horrible to drive - we have them as hire cars for callout jobs at work. I agree! I actually test drive a Land Rover Discovery and a Mazda Tribute (I know the Tribute don’t have 7 seats but my friend have one and let me try it out a bit) and found out that surprising that sitting in a 4x4 feels like there is more room than my Focus. Plus.... >>The biggest problem with the Focus, is that the seats are really uncomfortable. I had a bad back for a week after driving one from Hampshire up to Manchester, despite re-adjusting the seat about 20 times en route. Plus, the Focus has really bad visibility when coming to junctions and roundabouts. It seems to have a badly designed windscreen/door pillar arrangement. I agree again! While I do like the Focus and love it, I have to give it up because I do not feel comfortable sitting in it. I lowered the seat right all the way down but did not feel comfy driving it, so I re-adjusted until it was at maximum height but that leaves me with looking out of the top part of the windscreen, the part where the wipers can’t reach. I still have to bend my back a little to see where I am going, so my shoulders hurts and sometimes my back. When I am at a computer, I sit upright for health and safely reasons, when I test drove a couple of 4x4s, I feel like I was sitting at a desk. More upright and keep my back straight. Also, it is a matter of how I feel getting into and out of a 4x4. Plus it is a matter of going to the back door, open it, and be able to get my kids in or out of the 4x4, or helping them put their seat belts on, by staying upright, just duck my head so not to bang against the roof. With a car, I have to bend over. >>And my Land Rover has about three times the headroom of the Focus and just feels more spacious all round. No comparison in my view. I agree once more time!!! Mr Vigay, what you have said so far had helped me decided that it do sounds like a 4x4 would be a better choice for me. I plan to test drive a few different 4x4s to see how I feel, but you’re right. > If you simply admitted you want a 4x4 because they appeal to you > rather than making up bollocks reasons for having one, you would do > better. If you defined a budget you would be doing well. STEVE - You are a troll - look back in this NG and a "steve filth" and you used the same excuses for the other side if the argument For everyone else - > Demand why Steve has not explained why he is young and old and has > homes everywhere in the Country that anyone mentions > surely not a trolling little LIAR Steve ? - No, no, no that would be > "libel" eh ? |
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