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Car Forum / UK Car Forums / 4x4 Cars (UK group) / January 2005What does 4x4 stand for?
I apologise for asking such a basic question but I've asked everybody I know who has some knowlege of vehicles and have not received a definitive answer. Obviously the first 4 means four wheel drive. The question is: what does the second four denote. To put it an other way: how does a 4x4 differ from any other four wheel drive vehicle? Thanks in advance Roy Sharples. Roy Sharples composed the following;: > I apologise for asking such a basic question but I've asked everybody > I know who has some knowlege of vehicles and have not received a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > does the second four denote. To put it an other way: how does a 4x4 > differ from any other four wheel drive vehicle? You have the idea, but slightly wrong. The first four is the number of wheels on the vehicle, the second is the number of DRIVEN wheels. So a 4x4 has four wheels in total and all four may be driven. A 6x4 has six wheels with only four driven wheels. Such as a truck, maybe. A 'normal' car could be classed as a 4x2 .. four wheels total, 2 wheels driven. A 4x4x4 is a four wheel vehicle with all four wheels driven and all four wheels can steer as well. A 4x4 is a four wheel drive vehicle, there is no difference really, only in the eyes of people who must label and categorise based upon generalities which they percieve, but which don't always work. In very general terms 4x4's were mostly 'Landrover' type vehicles, meant to do a job on the farm or in off-road circumstances. However, nowadays many 'normal' cars also have 4x4 capabilities more related to traction, steering, control and safety than for any off-road purpose. There are also many 4x4 'style' cars that are occasional off-roaders that are much more suited to the road than having real off-road capability, but which are also more suitable for farm tracks or green lanes, maybe, than 'normal' road cars.  SignatureThe Caretaker. On Sunday, in article <crr42h$pet$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk> > I apologise for asking such a basic question but I've asked everybody I know > who has some knowlege of vehicles and have not received a definitive answer. > > Obviously the first 4 means four wheel drive. The question is: what does the > second four denote. To put it an other way: how does a 4x4 differ from any > other four wheel drive vehicle? 4 wheels, all 4 driven. So a conventional vehicle is 4x2. Some trucks are 6x4, others 6x2. Likewise 8x4 (which I haven't seen lately). Articulated lorries are different. SignatureDavid G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger. Wrought under license granted by Her Majesty's Apostropher Royal AD MMIV > I apologise for asking such a basic question but I've asked everybody I know > who has some knowlege of vehicles and have not received a definitive answer. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Roy Sharples. 4x4 also differentiates it from AWD, FWD, and RWD FWD and RWD is front and rear wheel drive AWD is your basic subaru setup, front and rear diffs and a center diff. all wheels driving. some models with AWD allow you to lock the center diff, turning it into a 4x4 4x4 differs from AWD in that the front axle is not always connected to the transfer case, and does not have a center differential SignatureBen Jerew AKA PolarPuppy ASE Certified Master Technician New Country Lexus of Latham, NY, USA Amateur Off-Roader 93 YJ 4.0l 3spd MudPuppy76 wrote: >> I apologise for asking such a basic question but I've asked everybody I >> know who has some knowlege of vehicles and have not received a definitive [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > always connected to the transfer case, and does > not have a center differential So a Discovery is not a 4x4? Nor a Range Rover? I think you've drawn a distinction that doesn't actually exist. 4x4 is simply four road wheels, all of which are driven. There is no distinction in the drivetrain beyond that. P. >So a Discovery is not a 4x4? Nor a Range Rover? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >P. But there is a difference between AWD and 4WD - though I always forget what it is. The terminology isn't very logical. SignatureR o o n e y >>So a Discovery is not a 4x4? Nor a Range Rover? >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > But there is a difference between AWD and 4WD - though I always forget > what it is. The terminology isn't very logical. If I were going to draw that line I'd say that AWD are vehicles with all wheels driven which are intended entirely for metalled road use, whereas 4x4 is intended for some offroad duty. I wouldn't try and actually set a distinction on the drivetrain as there will be enough exceptions to any rule you come up with to render the rule invalid. P. >>>So a Discovery is not a 4x4? Nor a Range Rover? >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >wheels driven which are intended entirely for metalled road use, whereas >4x4 is intended for some offroad duty. Hmm. I'd say the exact opposite. A military Scammell for example has all 6 wheels permanently driven regardless of what the other 5 happen to be doing a the time. If you drive it on a tarmac road you have to bump it up the kerb or take it on grass every 15 miles to unwind the transmission. A 4x4 without centre locking diff or viscous coupling can easily be reduced to only one wheel driving in mud or on wet grass. Locking the centre diff guarantees at least two wheels will be driving Locking front and rear axle diffs gives you all 4 wheels driving. Take it on tarmac in that configuration and not only will you not be able to turn the steering wheel even with power steering, you'll wreck your transmission within a few miles - guaranteed. >I wouldn't try and actually set a distinction on the drivetrain as there >will be enough exceptions to any rule you come up with to render the rule >invalid. > >P. And you would never get it universally adopted in any case. Signaturehugh Reply to address is valid at the time of posting > A 4x4 without centre locking diff or viscous coupling can > easily be reduced to only one wheel driving in mud or on wet grass. Didn't the Caravan Club find that with a Honda CRV "4x4" some time ago? It had difficulty pulling a van across wet grass! Budgie > A 4x4 without centre locking diff or viscous coupling can easily be > reduced to only one wheel driving in mud or on wet grass. > Locking the centre diff guarantees at least two wheels will be driving Not necessarily. If neither end has a locked diff, then even with a locked centre diff, you can be sat there with one wheel each end spinning freely. The only difference is that without the centre diff locked, you've only got the one wheel spinning uselessly... Hell, with front and rear diff locks engaged, it's entirely possible to be sat there with all four wheels spinning in brown windsor soup... Adrian composed the following;: >> A 4x4 without centre locking diff or viscous coupling can easily be >> reduced to only one wheel driving in mud or on wet grass. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Hell, with front and rear diff locks engaged, it's entirely possible > to be sat there with all four wheels spinning in brown windsor soup... Like this one. http://groups.msn.com/LosiPaulsPictures/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=118 It took another Discovery and a Series Landrover in tandem to pull this one out, and about an hour. :) http://groups.msn.com/LosiPaulsPictures/shoebox.msnw?Page=3 SignatureThe Caretaker. >> A 4x4 without centre locking diff or viscous coupling can easily be >> reduced to only one wheel driving in mud or on wet grass. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >If neither end has a locked diff, then even with a locked centre diff, you >can be sat there with one wheel each end spinning freely. Exactly - 2 wheels being driven - I did not say they were doing anything useful other than going round. The other 2 would just be sat there doing nothing. >The only difference is that without the centre diff locked, you've only got >the one wheel spinning uselessly... Which is what I said >Hell, with front and rear diff locks engaged, it's entirely possible to be >sat there with all four wheels spinning in brown windsor soup... Yes, but the point is that they are being driven. Signaturehugh Reply to address is valid at the time of posting > But there is a difference between AWD and 4WD - though I always forget > what it is. The terminology isn't very logical. The only difference between "AWD" and "4x4" is that "AWD" includes 6x6 and 8x8. >> But there is a difference between AWD and 4WD - though I always forget >> what it is. The terminology isn't very logical. > >The only difference between "AWD" and "4x4" is that "AWD" includes 6x6 and >8x8. I'll go along with that. SignatureR o o n e y >> 4x4 also differentiates it from AWD, FWD, and RWD >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > I think you've drawn a distinction that doesn't actually exist. More likely something being lost in the translation between American English and British English. Mudpuppy76 is in the US of A... I suspect he is trying to make the distinction between vehicles with permenant 4 heel drive (Subarus, Discovery's etc) and those where you can select between 4WD and RWD. I find his last paragraph mildly amusing, a front axle with no diff? > 4x4 is simply four road wheels, all of which are driven. There is no > distinction in the drivetrain beyond that. I'd agree with that. SignatureCheers new5pam@howhill.com Dave. pam is missing e-mail >>>4x4 also differentiates it from AWD, FWD, and RWD >>> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > I'd agree with that. no no no, the front axle definitely has a differential. i was noting that a 4x4 has a transfer case and not a center differential. an AWD would have 3 diffs in all. SignatureBen Jerew AKA PolarPuppy ASE Certified Master Technician New Country Lexus of Latham, NY, USA Amateur Off-Roader 93 YJ 4.0l 3spd MudPuppy76 wrote: [SNIP] >>>4x4 is simply four road wheels, all of which are driven. There is no >>>distinction in the drivetrain beyond that. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > transfer case and not a center differential. an > AWD would have 3 diffs in all. Which makes all Discoveries, Range Rovers, Freelanders and the likes AWD which is a bit of a change in branding from "The best 4x4xFar" I think you are probably trying to draw a distinction which only exists in marketers minds. At the end of the day, AWD is All Wheels Driven. 4x4 is Four wheels, all of which are driven. If you want to push a point, AWD is actually a trademark of a now defunct company in the UK who took over Bedford's truck manufacturing business in the 1980s. The brand name was intended to refer to their incarnation of the Bedford TM which was a 4x4 10 ton utility truck, but they didn't get the military contract they'd been hoping for and as a result actually sold rather more TL series which was a 4x2. P. >MudPuppy76 wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > >P. Having looked at dozens of websites over the last hour or so, I have discovered that AWD means different things to different people. There are lots of explanations about the distinction between AWD and 4WD, and they are all different! I can now happily conclude that my own common sense was right all along - ie, if an AWD vehicle has four wheels then it must be 4WD. There is no justification for limiting the term 4WD to those vehicles with selectable 4WD, or selectable low ratio, etc. Paul must surely be correct. SignatureR o o n e y >>MudPuppy76 wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Paul must surely be correct. maybe i was making too broad a generalization in the naming. an RX300 tag says AWD (All Wheel Drive), which mechanically speaking has front, rear, and center differentials. my Wrangler tag says 4x4, which mechanically has front and rear differentials and a transfer case. i thought that was actually the way that the different systems were identified, perhaps that isn't the case with all manufacturers? in actual use and marketing, i guess it doesn't make all that bit of difference to the customer. SignatureBen Jerew AKA PolarPuppy ASE Certified Master Technician New Country Lexus of Latham, NY, USA Amateur Off-Roader 93 YJ 4.0l 3spd >maybe i was making too broad a generalization in >the naming. an RX300 tag says AWD (All Wheel [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >use and marketing, i guess it doesn't make all >that bit of difference to the customer. It looks to me as though advances in technology have blurred whatever distinction there once was. I agree - it makes no difference to the buyer. No doubt someone will do a bit of market research into which label is preferred by which set of people! SignatureR o o n e y >>>4x4 also differentiates it from AWD, FWD, and RWD >>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > I find his last paragraph mildly amusing, a front axle with no diff? yeah, you're right, i worded that sentence kinda strangely didn't i? >>4x4 is simply four road wheels, all of which are driven. There is no >>distinction in the drivetrain beyond that. > > I'd agree with that. SignatureBen Jerew AKA PolarPuppy ASE Certified Master Technician New Country Lexus of Latham, NY, USA Amateur Off-Roader 93 YJ 4.0l 3spd >I apologise for asking such a basic question but I've asked everybody I know >who has some knowlege of vehicles and have not received a definitive answer. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Roy Sharples. The first 4 means it had 4 wheels. The second 4 means it has drive delivered to 4 wheels. most cars would be 4x2, they have 4 wheels but only 2 of them are driven. Four wheel drive means that drive is delivered to 4 wheels, though it could be used to refer to a 6x4 (6 wheels with drive to 4) it is usually used to refer to 4x4's. Regards. Mark.(AKA, Mr.Nice.) Signature_________________________________________ www.markvarleyphoto.co.uk 1984 110 CSW 2.5(na)D (3,000 rivets flying in close formation) _________________________________________ |
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