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Car Forum / UK Car Forums / 4x4 Cars (UK group) / March 2005Land rover freelander or toyota land cruiser
Hi i was having a mass discussion with on of me mates over which was better the land rover freelander or the toyota land cruiser i said the land rover but he thought otherwise is there any one who can help me on this one? ----------------------------------------- Message sent by Excite Newsgroups. http://www.excite.co.uk/newsgroup Not had or driven either but the 2 cars you mention are in different classes Freelander is what is classed as a soft roader where the land cruiser is more of a proper 4x4. Selectable 4wd, diff-lock and all that while the freelander has none of that. Or do you mean discovery? Steve > Not had or driven either but the 2 cars you mention are in different > classes [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Or do you mean discovery? Free lander or Disco, doesnt matter they both break down lol >[...] the land cruiser is more of a proper 4x4. Selectable 4wd, >diff-lock and all that while the freelander has none of that. It doesn't need "that". It's got permanent 4x4 and clever gizmos to replace the diff. I haven't manged to get mine stuck yet. Cheers Blippie -- Ten minutes of this rain will do more good in half an hour than a fortnight of ordinary rain in a month. > It's got permanent 4x4 and clever gizmos to replace the diff. "To replace the diff"? No, to manage it. >> It's got permanent 4x4 and clever gizmos to replace the diff. >"To replace the diff"? No, to manage it. Quite right. Ta. OK, so I've got 40mpg, no leaks, aircon and a CD player but I miss all the knobs and levers of my Series III. Cheers Blippie -- Ten minutes of this rain will do more good in half an hour than a fortnight of ordinary rain in a month. > It doesn't need "that". It's got permanent 4x4 and clever gizmos to > replace > the diff. I haven't manged to get mine stuck yet. You not been off road then? If you had been then you would have had the landy in the repair shop after each time. One of the mobile operators used Freelanders for there tech guys but were very dissapointed in them as they were off the road (in a garage, not Off-road) more than on. Soon as they were off road it seemed that there was a burning smell coming from all those clever gadgets as they cant cope with the rough stuff that well. Still stands though, the freelander is in a different class, for one, has a lot less ground clearance than that of a land cruiser Steve >> It doesn't need "that". It's got permanent 4x4 and clever gizmos to >> replace [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >were off road it seemed that there was a burning smell coming from all those >clever gadgets as they cant cope with the rough stuff that well. Possibly had the hill descent control on when driving normally. >Still stands though, the freelander is in a different class, for one, has a >lot less ground clearance than that of a land cruiser > >Steve They are on a different scale. More appropriate to compare with Defender or Disco I would have thought.  Signaturehugh Reply to address is valid at the time of posting [Land Cruiser] > They are on a different scale. More appropriate to compare with Defender > or Disco I would have thought. Easy, Land Cruiser moderately good on-road, very good off-road. Defender, Disco, who knows? You'll spend every moment of ownership with the vehicle laid up in a garage to have yet another fault fixed. If you own either, budget at least £2K per annum for repair bills, and expect to spend a lot of time off work. Signature"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 "Steve > Defender, Disco, who knows? You'll spend every moment of ownership with > the vehicle laid up in a garage to have yet another fault fixed. If you > own either, budget at least ?2K per annum for repair bills, and expect > to spend a lot of time off work. Not true, had a Defenfer for 7 years ( from new ). I have looked after it, usual service intervals. So far in 7 years : rear diff seal (warranty), alarm, cam belt at 50k ( I change em early ), new security lock nut undoer !, usual service bills and thats it. The reason why some get a bad rep is because they are abused to the extent that some of the other types would simply cease to function. After all how many of the others mentioned do you see around after 15 years ? try the middle of an out of the way region and try to get your ecu and electric window fixed by the local balcksmith. Was'nt it the special forces in Iraq who repaired a bent track rod behind the lines with some explosive lit with a match to heat it enough that it could be bashed back into shape ? I would'nt rubbish anything on the heresay evidence of other peoples opinions, rather stick to what you like and let everybody else do the same in peace. If you want a serious discussion for some purchase in mind; decide if you truley want a real off roader or a toy to pose in, then look for your car, Strange as it may seem LR has quite a following of very experienced people and at the last count 4 monthly magazines devoted to it on the newsagents stands. Can't recall any other car make having that much market presence in the news stands. Steve Firth composed the following;: > [Land Cruiser] > >> They are on a different scale. More appropriate to compare with Defender >> or Disco I would have thought. > > Easy, Land Cruiser moderately good on-road, very good off-road. Agreed, especially when compared with a Freelander. > Defender, Disco, who knows? You'll spend every moment of ownership with > the vehicle laid up in a garage to have yet another fault fixed. If you > own either, budget at least £2K per annum for repair bills, and expect > to spend a lot of time off work. I disagree. In my case (Landrover Discovery '97 300 Tdi) Only failures a CV joint and a rear exhhaust .. but as we off-road a lot these sorts of things are expected .. oh, and all the corner plastics have been pulled off a few times, but that, again, is par for an off-roader. However, I do my own servicing and don't run it into the ground (well, I do literally) between services. SignatureThe Caretaker. A balanced argument. www.4x4prejudice.org > Defender, Disco, who knows? You'll spend every moment of ownership with > the vehicle laid up in a garage to have yet another fault fixed. If you > own either, budget at least ?2K per annum for repair bills, and expect > to spend a lot of time off work. "By far the best proof is experience" Sir Francis Bacon 1603 > "By far the best proof is experience" Yes, that was why I eventually gave up Land Rover products. They are not as good off-road as the advocates claim, they are truly shite on road, and they are expensive to maintain and fix. Servicing bills for my 4xFord, £100 a year. Any Land Rover with servicing costs that low? Signature"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 > Yes, that was why I eventually gave up Land Rover products. They are not > as good off-road as the advocates claim, they are truly shite on road, > and they are expensive to maintain and fix. Well I hate to disagree however in my experience, they are excellent off road, bush, sand, srub, mud and as I try to drive in a fashion reflecting the vehicle I find them excellent on the road > Servicing bills for my 4xFord, ?100 a year. Any Land Rover with > servicing costs that low? I service my own, oil, filters x2 a year ?130 ( but then I get the best I can ); therafter I sort the axles diff transfer box etc. Thing is when I bought it I realized the cost for a complex machine and accepted it. Ferraris are great but the wrong car for a public road and need tuning every night. If you are getting service bills then ask the garage what they put in the car and do they do it all. "My idea of an agreeable person is one who agrees with me" Benjamin Disraeli :-)) Steve Firth composed the following;: >> "By far the best proof is experience" > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Servicing bills for my 4xFord, £100 a year. Any Land Rover with > servicing costs that low? Probably double that, for all oils, filters, fluids, including gearbox stuff .. and I do it at least twice a year. SignatureThe Caretaker. A balanced argument. www.4x4prejudice.org . > Servicing bills for my 4xFord, ?100 a year. Petrol engine? SignatureBudgie Note: email address is a dummy > > Servicing bills for my 4xFord, £100 a year. > > Petrol engine? 4.0 SOHC, yes. Signature"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 . > 4.0 SOHC, yes. But in that case, your fuel costs will be much higher. SignatureBudgie Note: email address is a dummy > .. > > > > 4.0 SOHC, yes. > > But in that case, your fuel costs will be much higher. What do you want, some sort of award for blindingly obvious statements? Does a petrol Land Rover cost less to service than a diesel Land Rover? Not in my experience, and despite the claims made here that you can service a Land Rover for £100 (well you can just about get the lubricants and filters for that) I've never had a Land Rvoer serviced for less than £300 at the local LR dealer, and usually the bill is about £530. Usually twice a year at that. And that's provided it doesn't break down. The extra cost for petrol over diesel is pretty small in actual fact, I get 14-24mpg off-road to on-road in mine vs the 20-27mpg I got from the 2.5TD Defender. The servicing difference costs more than the petrol does. Signature"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 > Not in my experience, and despite the claims made here that you can > service a Land Rover for £100 (well you can just about get the > lubricants and filters for that) I've never had a Land Rvoer serviced Last year I bought 25 litres of engine oil and 5 oil filters for under £50. I also changed the oil in the Tbox and both axles, that probably cost me another £20. Not quite 'just about get the lubricants and filters' for £100 is it? Signaturesimon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk Simon Barr. '97 110 300Tdi. > Not quite 'just about get the lubricants and filters' for £100 is it? That was the estimate given here by other Land Rover victims. Signature"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 > Yes, that was why I eventually gave up Land Rover products. They are not > as good off-road as the advocates claim, Another anti-advocate in here to troll things up, your cross-posting line betrays your juvenility. SignatureFor every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert > > "By far the best proof is experience" > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Servicing bills for my 4xFord, £100 a year. Any Land Rover with > servicing costs that low? Yes - My SIII costs half that per year to service. Excluding tyres etc. A couple of oil changes and she's fine. > Yes - My SIII costs half that per year to service. Excluding tyres > etc. A couple of oil changes and she's fine. And oddly enough the lowest servicing bill I had for any of SIIIs was £500. And these were regarded as good examples of SIIIs, pounced upon by punters when we sold them. Signature"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 > > Yes - My SIII costs half that per year to service. Excluding > > tyres etc. A couple of oil changes and she's fine. > > And oddly enough the lowest servicing bill I had for any of SIIIs was > £500. And these were regarded as good examples of SIIIs, pounced upon > by punters when we sold them. What do you do to them? Take them to a LR dealer? > > > Yes - My SIII costs half that per year to service. Excluding > > > tyres etc. A couple of oil changes and she's fine. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > What do you do to them? Take them to a LR dealer? Of course, and I take the Ford to a Ford dealer. Signature"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 On Sunday, in article <1gsncyh.yausthtvyd6jN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk> > > Yes - My SIII costs half that per year to service. Excluding tyres > > etc. A couple of oil changes and she's fine. > > And oddly enough the lowest servicing bill I had for any of SIIIs was > ?500. And these were regarded as good examples of SIIIs, pounced upon by > punters when we sold them. I'm a little wary of the figures flying around. It's quite possible that all modern vehicles, because the the computers running things, are impractical to service by the owner. But people still run Land Rovers which don't have that problem. I think you have to make some allowance for labour costs, it's not just parts and lubricants. SignatureDavid G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger. "I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six." > On Sunday, in article > <1gsncyh.yausthtvyd6jN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk> > >> And oddly enough the lowest servicing bill I had for any of SIIIs was >> £500. And these were regarded as good examples of SIIIs, pounced upon by >> punters when we sold them. SNIP > I think you have to make some allowance for labour costs, it's not just > parts and lubricants. Yebbut, cheapest service was £500 quid! That's some labour charge. I bet one of those services was just oil, filters and a quick look see, to find if anything was wrong. £500, ouch! Signaturesimon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk Simon Barr. '97 110 300Tdi. > > On Sunday, in article > > <1gsncyh.yausthtvyd6jN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I bet one of those services was just oil, filters and a quick look > see, to find if anything was wrong. £500, ouch! I wonder how much of the 500 quid is servicing costs, and how much repairs? On a service I would expect service items (consumables) to be replaced. Anything else is a repair (for example new track rod as the old one is bent) not part of servicing. > I wonder how much of the 500 quid is servicing costs, and how much > repairs? On a service I would expect service items (consumables) to be Maybe Mr Firth can tell us? Signaturesimon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk Simon Barr. '97 110 300Tdi. > > I wonder how much of the 500 quid is servicing costs, and how much > > repairs? On a service I would expect service items (consumables) to be > > Maybe Mr Firth can tell us? There were always spares to replace on every service. Plus two diffs and two swivel hubs to fill with oil because LR can't design an oil seal to save their lives. It's one of the gripes I have with Land Rover. As I said before they are far too fragile. My American lump has simply got on with the job, and it can crack 110mph on the autobahn when needed as well. I never managed anything close in a LR product. Signature"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 >> > I wonder how much of the 500 quid is servicing costs, and how much >> > repairs? On a service I would expect service items (consumables) to be [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > two swivel hubs to fill with oil because LR can't design an oil seal to > save their lives. Oddly, or not, I have never wrecked a LR diff and have never had a leaking hub seal. This despite owning some six live axle LR's over the years and owning my remaining 110 pick up from new in 1984. > It's one of the gripes I have with Land Rover. As I said before they are > far too fragile. My American lump has simply got on with the job, and it > can crack 110mph on the autobahn when needed as well. I never managed > anything close in a LR product. I have never found them fragile and I tow more weight and off road more than most, due to the nature of my business. I do actually cost the vehicles reasonably diligently and replacements are fairly regular in the suspension and steering departments. Otherwise they have been fairly reliable. The average cost of replacements and repairs for the work 110 has averaged around ?700 per year, with costs highest when new tyres, exhausts, and steering boxes [the bane of a working LR's life] coincide in the same year. Otherwise, normal servicing costs around ?200 per year. Costs are no worse now than 15 years ago for this vehicle. Some day sooner or later there will be a major failure, at which point some clear thinking will be needed in deciding whether to spend or scrap it. Huw Totally agree - the freelander is not in the same class as the Land Cruiser - different animals for different markets compare the Land Cruiser with a Discovery, compare the Freelander with a erm, erm..... Rav4, Nissan X-Trail, Honda CRV, any of the 20 grand lower end really > >> It doesn't need "that". It's got permanent 4x4 and clever gizmos to > >> replace [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > They are on a different scale. More appropriate to compare with Defender > or Disco I would have thought. >>I haven't manged to get mine stuck yet. >You not been off road then? Er, yes. Lots. Fair to say, though, I don't tackle anything I consider to be potentially damaging or requiring high clearance. I leave that to the Defenders. The Freelander performs suprisingly well on poor traction surfaces - used it to tow a bogged down Disco last year! Cheers Blippie -- Ten minutes of this rain will do more good in half an hour than a fortnight of ordinary rain in a month. Blippie schrieb: > The Freelander performs suprisingly well on poor traction surfaces - used it > to tow a bogged down Disco last year! > > Cheers Well, a 'surprise' is well defined by the reference point being the basis for your judgement. To nullify this I'd suggest to simply follow me or several other guys from this NG on their trails. This may well lead to a qualified re-adjustment. Axel >Blippie schrieb: >>The Freelander performs suprisingly well on poor traction surfaces - used >>it >>to tow a bogged down Disco last year! >Well, a 'surprise' is well defined by the reference point being the basis >for >your judgement. >To nullify this I'd suggest to simply follow me or several other guys from >this >NG on their trails. This may well lead to a qualified re-adjustment. LOL, I might suprise you by bringing along my mate's Camel Trophy Defender! I'm well aware of the limitations of the Freelander - I used to own a "real" Landrover - a Series III safari sation wagon - one of the ones with the 2.6 petrol. It's just I needed something a bit more refined! Cheers Blippie -- Ten minutes of this rain will do more good in half an hour than a fortnight of ordinary rain in a month. > Not had or driven either but the 2 cars you mention are in different > classes [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Steve I have not seen a selectable four wheel drive Land Cruiser officially sold in the UK for nearly ten years. Huw > I have not seen a selectable four wheel drive Land Cruiser officially sold > in the UK for nearly ten years. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Huw Agreed - although the newer Landcruisers are okay offroad the best model was the early to mid 90's VX Amazon. All the diff locks, power etc you ever needed. Newer UK models (can't comment for rest of the world) don't have all those transmission options anymore. They'll probably drop the ladder chassis soon.... Nevillef >> I have not seen a selectable four wheel drive Land Cruiser officially >> sold in the UK for nearly ten years. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Agreed - although the newer Landcruisers are okay offroad the best model > was the early to mid 90's VX Amazon. Had one of those. All the diff locks, power etc you ever > needed. Newer UK models (can't comment for rest of the world) don't have > all those transmission options anymore. My 100 series Amazon has selectable centre and rear diff locks though I seldom use the rear. It has more power than the previous version and is a significant step forward in almost every way. They'll probably drop the ladder chassis > soon.... Land Rover have dropped it to good effect on all models bar the [soon to be replaced hopefully] Defender and I can see little reason for Toyota not to follow on both their models as long as it does not compromise performance. Indeed if the new Range Rover and Discovery are to be taken as examples then performance is enhanced not compromised in all conditions. Huw On Sunday, in article <37siqqF54lqf7U1@individual.net> > > They'll probably drop the ladder chassis > > soon.... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Indeed if the new Range Rover and Discovery are to be taken as examples then > performance is enhanced not compromised in all conditions. One long-exploited feature of the Defender design is the ability to fit very different bodies. It's at the small end of the light truck market, with off-road capacity. Whether or not it's a significant part of the market, I couldn't say. SignatureDavid G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger. "I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six." > On Sunday, in article <37siqqF54lqf7U1@individual.net> > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > with off-road capacity. Whether or not it's a significant part of the > market, I couldn't say. A van and a chassis/cab version with alternative bodies are no problem with any vehicle with a chassis. I would imagine that a chassis/cab version would be somewhat deficient without a chassis LOL. A van and a plain pick-up and one or two other popular versions would be no problem though. Who knows, maybe LR will retain a chassis just for the new Defender model, which really can't come too soon because Defender sales are suffering a lingering death. Ask most LR dealers how their Defender sales are going and they will reply 'what sales?'. Huw On Monday, in article <37urqlF5h3lg3U1@individual.net> > > One long-exploited feature of the Defender design is the ability to fit > > very different bodies. It's at the small end of the light truck market, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > suffering a lingering death. Ask most LR dealers how their Defender sales > are going and they will reply 'what sales?'. I didn't realise Defender sales were that bad. If they were careful about the pick-up design, it could cover most special-body needs. But could the structure be stiff enough for something like a Pink Panther? No upper cab to bridge the hole where the doors are. That's the weak point. I suspect military procurement could abandon Land Rover if there isn't a standard model close to their needs. If they want something that can do that topless role it might not be possible, with modern design regulations, to buy something with a civilian-compatible structure. And right now there's a lot of essentially civilian-spec Land Rovers in military service which, if the sh.t hit the fan, could go out in the field with the Wolf models. That's a more useful reserve than backing up Hummers with Jeep Cherokees. I know there's stuff in the pipeline that might replace the Land Rover with a military-specific vehicle for front-line use (is there a front- line in any likely war?) and then go for some 4wd pick-up for the rest. But the US Army in Iraq has found that there isn't really a front line any more, and if you want armour kits for the Hummers, you also need them for all the supply trucks. The civilian and military versions of the Defender aren't identical, but a lot of the military gear is a bolt-on. (Not FFR, but that never has been.) Anyway, once the Defender can't be sold into the front-line procurement, and lack of a chassis could lead to that, it's a lot less attractive for the other 4wd utility roles. Lose the military market, and maybe the balance tips. SignatureDavid G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger. "I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six." > I suspect military procurement could abandon Land Rover if there isn't > a standard model close to their needs. I thought they pretty much already had in favour of the Pinz? >> I suspect military procurement could abandon Land Rover if there isn't >> a standard model close to their needs. > > I thought they pretty much already had in favour of the Pinz? And they are assembled in the UK. This would appear to be a main replacement for LR though http://www.army-technology.com/projects/future/ Huw > And they are assembled in the UK. > This would appear to be a main replacement for LR though > http://www.army-technology.com/projects/future/ Hmm, interesting-ish I suppose, auto gearbox with six gears and no low range, that seems like a backwards step though, it also has independent suspension all round but no portal axles, and ground clearance doesn't look that great. Seems to be built for speed more than off-road crawling. Give me a Pinzgaeur any day! I'm even tempted to sell my 110 to finance buying one.. SignatureFor every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert Toyota every time > Hi i was having a mass discussion with on of me mates over which was > better the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Message sent by Excite Newsgroups. > http://www.excite.co.uk/newsgroup Depends what you want it for and how much you want to spend really. I'm was an LR owner (SIII 109 - finances required its sale :-( ) but if you want a heavy towing vehicle or a hardcore offroader, I'd go for the Toyota. It's well made and built ot last. The Freelander is good on the road, and not bad at all off-road. It's ground clearance isn't huge, but I've seen them go places that I never thought they would - steep inclines, mud, etc. If you are offroading, the auto gearbox is probably better for the LR. Tim A I think I'd look for real off road use and emulate them. ie africa oz etc > Hi i was having a mass discussion with on of me mates over which was better the > land rover freelander or the toyota land cruiser i said the land rover but he [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Message sent by Excite Newsgroups. > http://www.excite.co.uk/newsgroup Depends what you want to do with it, The freelander is a great fun car both on and off road in my experience yes I have got it stuck but do did a range rover and mistibushi. The frelander blongs to the wife and she sings its praise all day long must admit I called her recently when i drove out of the village and found a lovely spot of black ice and asked had she got through ok her comment oh is that why traaction control ran for a few seconds arrrrrrr. In a landcuriser shed have slid sideways I dont doubt because 4wd wouldnt have been on etc etc. The freelander does everything for you with regard to 4x4 and does it very cleverly. Having said that I had an toyota amazon and loved it and you could move 7 people around in relative comfort. These 2 dont really compare probably close between a freelander and a rav 4. >Hi i was having a mass discussion with on of me mates over which was better the >land rover freelander or the toyota land cruiser i said the land rover but he [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Message sent by Excite Newsgroups. >http://www.excite.co.uk/newsgroup > Hi i was having a mass discussion with on of me mates over which was > better the > land rover freelander or the toyota land cruiser i said the land rover but > he > thought otherwise is there any one who can help me on this one? The Toyota rival for Freelander is the Rav4. The Land Rover rival to Landcruiser 90/Colorado is Discovery. The 'proper' LC 100/Amazon rivals the Range Rover very closely. Huw > Hi i was having a mass discussion with on of me mates over which was > better the land rover freelander or the toyota land cruiser i said the > land rover but he thought otherwise is there any one who can help me on > this one? You're wrong, HTH. In fact you're wrong for just about any value of Land Rover, let alone the godawful on-roader that is the Freelander. Signature"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 What about the freelander dont you like ? Must admit havent drive the wifes much but its a fun little car very quick handles well and a reall giggle I find ? I had the merc ML450 and the freelander is much better both on and off road >> Hi i was having a mass discussion with on of me mates over which was >> better the land rover freelander or the toyota land cruiser i said the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >You're wrong, HTH. In fact you're wrong for just about any value of Land >Rover, let alone the godawful on-roader that is the Freelander. > What about the freelander dont you like ? Rover parts bin interior. Over priced, under specced, shite gearbox, stupid decision to rely on a lowish first gear and electronics rather than to fit a high/low ratio. > Must admit havent drive the wifes much but its a fun little car very quick <snort> Quick my arse 0-60 13.2s for the diseasel, 0-60 10.1s for the V6. Glaciers accelerate faster. > handles well and a reall giggle I find ? I had the merc ML450 and the > freelander is much better both on and off road Compare it with the X-Trail which is in the same category. The X-Trail pisses on Land Rover's chips. The Freelander is for those who can't see past the badge. Signature"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 > The Freelander is for those who can't see past the badge. From the rest of your posts in this topic Steve you appear to be one of those who can't see past the badge! It's very infrequent these days that you get massive gulfs between manufacturers, but you certainly get massive gulfs in friend-of-a-friend stories. SignatureFor every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert > Hi i was having a mass discussion with on of me mates over which was > better the land rover freelander or the toyota land cruiser If it's the big LandCruiser, the Amazon, you could probably hang a Freelunch off the tailgate on davits, like the tender dinghy to a yacht. |
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