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Car Forum / UK Car Forums / 4x4 Cars (UK group) / April 2005Cheapish 4x4
My parents have just purchased a property in the French alps, and we are looking to purchase a car which will spend most of its life down there on the snow bound roads of the Alps (inc. Switzerland). We dont want to spend any more than say £3,000 (less if we can), and want something reliable and fun to drive (with at least 130bhp for the summer months). I've never owned a 4x4 before, and would prefer something like a saloon rather than the traditional off-road 4x4's. All my family are owners of Volvo T-5's, but the AWD version of the T5 didn't come along til the V70, which is out of our price range. The 850 AWD is also slightly pricey for it's age! Whatever we get will be fitted with winter tyres etc We estimate it'll do between 6,000 and 10,000 miles per year, but spending the majority of its life in a heated garage. Not worried about fuel consumption of insurance costs. Some ideas off the top of my head include the Mondeo 2.0 Si 4x4 and certain Audi Quattro models. Expansion of this list with merits of certain cars would be a benifit! The car will be a UK car with UK plates, insured in the UK to drive in France and will be taken back once a year for it's MOT test! > My parents have just purchased a property in the French alps, and we > are looking to purchase a car which will spend most of its life down [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > The car will be a UK car with UK plates, insured in the UK to drive in > France and will be taken back once a year for it's MOT test! Not entirely convinced by the need for 4wd, as in a lot of situations FWD is just as useful - you don't see many Swedes driving 4wd cars. However, if it's being driven 99% of the time in France / Switzerland, then I'd definitely be looking for a left-hooker.  SignatureSteve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 VW Golf GL Cabrio - Alfa 75 TS - VW Passat 1.8T 20V SE - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # > The car will be a UK car with UK plates, insured in the UK to drive in > France and will be taken back once a year for it's MOT test! Why? Why do you need a 4wd, or do you fancy driving a 4wd ? For the former; identify the use and buy accordingly, for the latter go for a Jap tart car which will probably be more reliable and cost less to run than a genuine 4wd off-roader. Why 130 bhp ? for real use look at the torque output and the rev range the power is developed at . John H >Some ideas off the top of my head include the Mondeo 2.0 Si 4x4 and >certain Audi Quattro models. Expansion of this list with merits of >certain cars would be a benifit! I'd look at the Subaru Imprezza and Subaru Forester. The Imprezza comes in saloon and 5 door hatch back. The Forester benefits from increased ground clearance, which might be useful in deep snow, but might be a bit too traditional 4x4 for you. Even the standard non-turbo versions of both meet your power requirements, the turbo ones are even more fun... SignatureAndy Norman trout@norman.cx http://www.norman.cx/ Replace the fish with my first name to reply > I'd look at the Subaru Imprezza and Subaru Forester. So would I, but I'd check on wheelarch clearances for snowchains. I'd also be surprised if either of those comes in on budget. Perhaps a Legacy would be a better bet? Signature"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 >> I'd look at the Subaru Imprezza and Subaru Forester. > >So would I, but I'd check on wheelarch clearances for snowchains. I'd Should be plenty of clearance on the Forester. >also be surprised if either of those comes in on budget. You could be right on the Forester, Autotrader only shows one under £3k. The Impreza shouldn't be so much of a problem though, Autotrader shows plenty under £3k. SignatureAndy Norman trout@norman.cx http://www.norman.cx/ Replace the fish with my first name to reply > You could be right on the Forester, Autotrader only shows one under > £3k. The Impreza shouldn't be so much of a problem though, Autotrader > shows plenty under £3k. The reason I didn't buy an Impreza in the end was because the more powerful models eat ludicrous amounts of fuel for no apparent reason, I was seeing specs like 15MPG which is half what even a Lotus Esprit manages, and even my 2 tonne landy does 25-30. For 3K and below I'd hope they'd have weedy engines and better fuel economy. Servicing was also very expensive and needlessly frequent, hopefully not the case with the less sporty models. Still, why bother with a low-spec cheap Impreza when you could get a Forester? Good cars from the look of it. I'm also a fan of Audis, my 1.9 A4 TDi Automatic commute-wagon does 45-50MPG consistently, a quattro version would be a good bet and is popular in colder scandinavian climes. The Quattro drivetrain is supposed to be bullet-proof, and my old 90 Quattro even had rear diff lock for getting you moving, then at about 30MPH it would automatically switch off (newer "Quattro" drivetrains aren't as good as the original in some ways however). You can get those for 1,000-1,500 in good condition so a more recent car would be within budget. Or a Landy 110 with a 2.5 petrol? ;-) (cue Steve Firth) SignatureFor every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert > Or a Landy 110 with a 2.5 petrol? ;-) (cue Steve Firth) Well at least he wouldn't be getting into trouble in the Alps with that, he'd be unlikely to get that far. Signature"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 > Well at least he wouldn't be getting into trouble in the Alps with that, > he'd be unlikely to get that far. Yawn! Snore...... SignatureFor every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert >> You could be right on the Forester, Autotrader only shows one under >> £3k. The Impreza shouldn't be so much of a problem though, Autotrader [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >I was seeing specs like 15MPG which is half what even a Lotus Esprit >manages, and even my 2 tonne landy does 25-30. For 3K and below I'd That doesn't sound right. The Lotus Esprit has a combined fuel consumption of 21.2 mpg, according to this site: http://www.lotusespritworld.co.uk/EBuying/SundayTimes_12_2003.html The current Impreza WRX has an official combined figure of 30.7 mpg, the older Impreza Turbos had a figure of around 27 mpg. I average about 24 mpg in my year 2000 Impreza Turbo, I can get over 30 mpg on long motorway cruises. Sure you can get the Impreza to drop into the mid teens and below if you are really hammering it all the time, but with the same treatment I'm sure the Lotus would quickly drop under 10 mpg. I think you must have got some duff figures from somewhere, for such a high performance car the Impreza Turbo is relatively gentle on the wallet, fuel cost wise at least. And your 2 tonne Landy doesn't have a 0-60 time of just over 5 seconds... >hope they'd have weedy engines and better fuel economy. Servicing was >also very expensive and needlessly frequent, hopefully not the case >with the less sporty models. The 7500 service interval on the Impreza definitely is a disadvantage. SignatureAndy Norman trout@norman.cx http://www.norman.cx/ Replace the fish with my first name to reply > I average about 24 mpg in my year 2000 Impreza Turbo, i.e. the same as a 4.0 litre 2 tonne truck. Signature"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 > The Lotus Esprit has a combined fuel consumption of 21.2 mpg, > according to this site: > > http://www.lotusespritworld.co.uk/EBuying/SundayTimes_12_2003.html Mine does about 30 if driven carefully (or rather it did before I stripped the engine about 2 years ago!), the 15MPG figure was from an Impreza mailing list, however I have no idea about the spec of the car so it's probably a somewhat pessimistic figure! > I average about 24 mpg in my year 2000 Impreza Turbo, I can get over > 30 mpg on long motorway cruises. I get 24MPG at the worst in my Defender 110, so I don't think a powerful Impreza is practical for long distance driving unless your pockets are deep. My audi does 45-50 MPG. I also get the idea that the original poster was going to be leaving the car hanging around doing nothing much for some time, so a car that uses expensive tyres and has a complex ECU also wouldn't be the best choice. > And your 2 tonne Landy doesn't have a 0-60 time of just over 5 > seconds... With no anti-roll bars in the suspension, mud tyres, live axles and long-travel soft springs, I'm glad of that ;-) Mind you a Bowler Wildcat can keep up with an Impreza in a straight line, but it does cost 60K... > The 7500 service interval on the Impreza definitely is a > disadvantage. I thought it was 5,000 on some of them? SignatureFor every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert >> I average about 24 mpg in my year 2000 Impreza Turbo, I can get over >> 30 mpg on long motorway cruises. > >I get 24MPG at the worst in my Defender 110, so I don't think a >powerful Impreza is practical for long distance driving unless your >pockets are deep. My audi does 45-50 MPG. Bizarrely my wife's Fiesta 1.4 is probably the worse of our cars on a long high speed cruise. The Impreza will be managing 30mpg, the MX5 33mpg and the Fiesta struggling to reach 25mpg. >> And your 2 tonne Landy doesn't have a 0-60 time of just over 5 >> seconds... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Wildcat can keep up with an Impreza in a straight line, but it does >cost 60K... I'll bet it doesn't do 24mpg while it is doing it though ;) >> The 7500 service interval on the Impreza definitely is a >> disadvantage. > >I thought it was 5,000 on some of them? Not that I am aware of. You might be thinking of the Mitsubishi Evo, some of the more extreme versions of that have shortened service intervals. SignatureAndy Norman trout@norman.cx http://www.norman.cx/ Replace the fish with my first name to reply > Bizarrely my wife's Fiesta 1.4 is probably the worse of our cars on > a long high speed cruise. The Impreza will be managing 30mpg, the > MX5 33mpg and the Fiesta struggling to reach 25mpg. Revving its nuts off to get to a decent cruising speed most probably! > I'll bet it doesn't do 24mpg while it is doing it though ;) With a TVR-based V8 in it, I doubt it'll do much more than about 8-10 MPG with the welly down.. Mind you if you can afford an expensive plaything like a Bowler then I doubt fuel costs are uppermost in your mind.. > Not that I am aware of. You might be thinking of the Mitsubishi Evo, > some of the more extreme versions of that have shortened service > intervals. No, it was definitely the Impreza, a friend has one, I'll prod him sometime and see what he says. I don't think it was that extreme, but can't remember the age or the spec. Still, it's important to check service intervals if you're going for a budget car, and I doubt that a Landy (cue steve!), an Impreza, an Evo or a Bowler are really budget cars when you roll fuel into the equation. Mind you my 110 ran on vegetable oil for a few months. SignatureFor every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert > >Some ideas off the top of my head include the Mondeo 2.0 Si 4x4 and > >certain Audi Quattro models. Expansion of this list with merits of [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Even the standard non-turbo versions of both meet your power > requirements, the turbo ones are even more fun... I am a big fan of Scooby's but Foresters are a little thin on the ground have a look round for Legacys particularly the Outback there is a lot of variation in the range with the twin turbo at the top of the pile . Also there is the Toyota Corolla 4WD estate probably a little under the 130bhp but exceptionally capable offroad and of course very reliable but don't expect to buy on in the UK they are very rare.Also known as the Tercel in the US and some european countrys well withing the budget Derek on second Legacy ( after 3 Tercels) > Also there is the Toyota Corolla 4WD estate probably a little under the > 130bhp but exceptionally capable offroad and of course very reliable but > don't expect to buy on in the UK they are very rare.Also known as the > Tercel in the US and some european countrys well withing the budget Avoid like the plague, the Tercel is utter shite. Signature"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 "Steve Firth" wrote in message > > > > > Avoid like the plague, the Tercel is utter shite. well theres a reasoned argument then having owned 3 I would disagree I found they are ideal for delivering grain to pheasants on pete moorland and in snow as unlike my Rangy, Fourtrak, Cossack Trooper etc they are less inclined to sink in and have decent manners on road. Of course you could mean the Corolla/Tercel which I have no experience of save the popularity in the Peak District amongst farmers who they are not known for buying pigs in pokes Derek > My parents have just purchased a property in the French alps, and we > are looking to purchase a car which will spend most of its life down > there on the snow bound roads of the Alps (inc. Switzerland). > > We dont want to spend any more than say £3,000 (less if we can), Them IMO you'll be stuffed. Because you're not going to get what you ask for within the budget. I used to work in Switzerland and I had both a Golf GTi and a Golf Synchro while I was there. As others have said, the 4x4 didn't actually offer much benefit over the FWD car, you may be better off simply getting some lessons on driving on ice and snow. A 4WD car is not a license to drive flat out on snow covered roads. Many people who have never driven one seem to assume that a 4x4 has some magic in it that permits higher speeds than possible with a 2x4. Not so, so if that was the thinking behind your choice, think again. Also many saloon bodied 4x4s don't have differential locks, indeed very few cheap 4x4s of any type come equipped with diff locks although some may have such a primitive 4x4 arrangement that it doesn't have a centre diff and hence is effectively diff locked when in 4x4. That of itself isn't necessarily a good thing either. Something like a Series III Land Rover is actually harder to drive on snow than you would think. It's more or less permanently in a skid on snow, with one wheel somewhere or other losing traction. With practice they're easy to drive on snow but it takes practice and the sensation at first is disconcerting. Vehicles like the Vitara and Frontera feel much the same in snow. Modern 4x4s with selectable electronic gubbins give a much better experience but fall well outside your budget. > and want something reliable and fun to drive (with at least 130bhp for the > summer months). I've never owned a 4x4 before, and would prefer something > like a saloon rather than the traditional off-road 4x4's. Lower BHP would actually help in snow. > All my family are owners of Volvo T-5's, but the AWD version of the T5 > didn't come along til the V70, which is out of our price range. The > 850 AWD is also slightly pricey for it's age! > > Whatever we get will be fitted with winter tyres etc In winter, but you'll need two sets of wheels and summer tyres as well. And of course somewhere to store them and where will you keep them? In England or in France? Because you can guarantee that wherever you keep them will be the wrong place. > We estimate it'll do between 6,000 and 10,000 miles per year, but > spending the majority of its life in a heated garage. Not worried > about fuel consumption of insurance costs. Chevvy Blazer or Ford Explorer then. You'll get a decent one of either within your budget. > Some ideas off the top of my head include the Mondeo 2.0 Si 4x4 and > certain Audi Quattro models. Expansion of this list with merits of > certain cars would be a benifit! And Audi Quattro at that price will IMO be trouble. I can't see you gettign a good 4x4 Mondeo with the tyres for that price either but I'm willing to be surpised. > The car will be a UK car with UK plates, insured in the UK to drive in > France and will be taken back once a year for it's MOT test! Why? For a start any insurer will treat this with suspicion. Either get a car in France registered in France or insure your current vehicle to drive in Europe. Signature"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 > > My parents have just purchased a property in the French alps, and we > > are looking to purchase a car which will spend most of its life down [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > magic in it that permits higher speeds than possible with a 2x4. Not so, > so if that was the thinking behind your choice, think again. LOL - think I witnessed the 4x4 "magic" effect about 4 weeks ago in a brief flurry of sleet/snow on Reigate-ish area of the M25 early one Sunday morning. It was settling on the carriageway surface, and coming down relatively steadily - not great driving conditions. So I drop down to 40/45ish in L1, watching cars sailing past at 70ish. Sure enough after a couple of minutes traffic comes to a standstill & then creeps forward sporadically. 500m or so later the cause is apparent - bloke in Impreza WRX sat skewed in L2/3, steam pouring from (badly deformed) bonnet, dont know quite how he'd managed it but his front bumper was wrapped around the hard shoulder barrier supports horseshoe-stylee. He looked somewhat embarrassed... <snip> SignatureRichard Sampson mail me at richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk > My parents have just purchased a property in the French alps, and we > are looking to purchase a car which will spend most of its life down [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > The car will be a UK car with UK plates, insured in the UK to drive in > France and will be taken back once a year for it's MOT test! I'd go for something like an Impreza 2.0 non turbo. You could pick one up well within budget. But then again if its gonna live in France perhaps something like a Peugeot or Citroen would be better as it'll be easier/cheaper to get them fixed. And a Citroen Xantia for example would be good with it silly suspension if you came across some deep snow. > The car will be a UK car with UK plates, insured in the UK to drive in > France and will be taken back once a year for it's MOT test! Jesus Christ, talk about a stupid and costly way to go about things. So not only will it be far more expensive to insure but you'll also be paying £150/year road tax that you'll never use! What an idiot.. SignatureConor An imperfect plan executed violently is far superior to a perfect plan. -- George Patton > > The car will be a UK car with UK plates, insured in the UK to drive in > > France and will be taken back once a year for it's MOT test! [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > What an idiot.. Not that stupid the way things are at the moment. You could basically drive like an utter c.nt in France in a UK registered car and all they could give you is a fine, with no points. It's a very sensible way to do things if you have a UK address. The same is also true for using a Euro registered car in the UK. SignatureSteve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 VW Golf GL Cabrio - Alfa 75 TS - VW Passat 1.8T 20V SE - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # >> > The car will be a UK car with UK plates, insured in the UK to drive in >> > France and will be taken back once a year for it's MOT test! [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > The same is also true for using a Euro registered car in the UK. So, can i register my car at my friends place in the south of france, and then proceed to drive like a c.nt still, but not worry about getting caught? Is that allowed? Cos its quite appealing :D SignatureDan > >> > The car will be a UK car with UK plates, insured in the UK to drive in > >> > France and will be taken back once a year for it's MOT test! [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > then proceed to drive like a c.nt still, but not worry about getting caught? > Is that allowed? Cos its quite appealing :D It is, in theory, possible. SignatureSteve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 VW Golf GL Cabrio - Alfa 75 TS - VW Passat 1.8T 20V SE - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # I work a lot in France and keep a car there - French everything and only an mot thingy every five years - cheap insurance too....... > >> > The car will be a UK car with UK plates, insured in the UK to drive in > >> > France and will be taken back once a year for it's MOT test! [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > then proceed to drive like a c.nt still, but not worry about getting caught? > Is that allowed? Cos its quite appealing :D : You could basically drive like an utter c.nt in France in a UK : registered car and all they could give you is a fine, with no points. : : It's a very sensible way to do things if you have a UK address. : : The same is also true for using a Euro registered car in the UK. It's perfectly possible to have a driving record with points on it in the UK, but not have a UK driving licence. Ian Thank you for some of the decent replies, and some that provided some light hilarity value. 1/ I am perfectly adept on driving on ice and snow. I spend plenty of time going up and down ice packed roads in France, Italy, Switzerland and the like. In fact, I've just returned from Switzerland driving on several rather interesting swiss passes in the early hours in a highish powered FWD vehicle. No probs. 2/ 4x4 is not essential. However, show me (or most people) a swiss pass and the choice of a 4x4 or FWD. I certainly would take the 4x4 over FWD in these conditions anytime. As I'm sure would the vast majority of people. The car we purchase will be a secondary, even tertiary vehicle purely for use on the snow (apart from the rare times we're down there in the summer). I want 4x4, no question about it. 3/ Ok. So I spent a couple of hundred quid on bringing the car back to the UK every year. I save more than that on insurance premiums as I have no form of NCB in France. Add into that the hassle-free factor of having to go through French beurocracy registering a car where the owner is not a French national, etc. I may however consider an LHD vehicle, little benifit though for the use that it will be put to. 4/ I stated 130bhp as a rough figure. I enjoy driving quickly, and when the roads clear they are fantastic in the summer. I want to be able to enjoy driving in the summer rather than being stuck in a 4x4 piece of junk that can barely reach motorway cruising speeds in anything less than geological time. Also a reason I want a 4x4 saloon type car rather than a off-road vehicle. 5/ Conor: Please think outside your own silly little mind before you post useless crap. Refer to point 3. MJ > I want to be able to enjoy driving in the summer rather than being stuck > in a 4x4 piece of junk that can barely reach motorway cruising speeds in > anything less than geological time. Also a reason I want a 4x4 saloon type > car rather than a off-road vehicle. Hmm, well an American 4x4 will have closer to 240 bhp than 130 and be capable of 0-60 in 9.2ish or even less seconds. > 5/ Conor: Please think outside your own silly little mind before you > post useless crap. Refer to point 3. Get your head out of your arse, you're as wrong headed as anyone posting here, and if you give less than half the story (as you did) then you'll get less than half the answer. Signature"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Less than half the story? No. I asked a very simple question. I want a 4x4 saloon type vehicle for under £3k. I was looking for reccomendations for the best for the money. Thankfully, some people have replied to my direct question. I didn't ask for my logic of keeping the vehicle in france, my justification of wanting 4x4 and my ability to drive on snow and ice to be bought into question. Sadly, when some people can't answer the question it seems that they feel they have to pick holes in other parts of the post. I didn't ask whether my keeping the vehicle in France was a good idea, therefore I don't really see why people wish to comment on it. It will be kept in France and yes it will be a 4x4. Now, back on topic. I've been looking at a few Audi Quattros and a couple of Mondeo 4x4's on eBay which seem good value. They tend to have a highish mileage on them though - any problem with the Ford 4x4 or Quattro drive train of the mid-90's ? > Less than half the story? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > question it seems that they feel they have to pick holes in other > parts of the post. Yeah, it's terrible when people forget that Usenet is here for your personal information gathering needs and feel they have some kind of right to discuss whatever they like. It's good to see that you've given them a proper telling off ... maybe that will stop all of the mindless chatter that goes on in here in between you wanting your questions answered for free. SignatureAndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas) Kawasaki ZX-6R J1, Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo BOTAFOT#2,ITJWTFO#6,UKRMRM#1/13a,MCT#1,DFV#2,SKoGA#0 (and KotL) BotToS#5,SBS#25,IbW#34, DS#5, COSOC# Suspended, KotTFSTR# The speccy Geordie twat. > No. I asked a very simple question. I want a 4x4 saloon type vehicle > for under £3k. I was looking for reccomendations for the best for the > money. Thankfully, some people have replied to my direct question. You're a bit of a stranger to how usenet works, aren't you? Where the interest for anyone in simply providing you with a free research service? > I didn't ask for my logic of keeping the vehicle in france, my > justification of wanting 4x4 and my ability to drive on snow and ice to > be bought into question. That doesn't stop anyone discussing those topics. Indeed it doesn't stop anyone wondering why someone would want to do something as fuckwitted as buying a car in the UK to use predominantly in France, insuring it in England while possibly not coming clean with the insurer that the primary use of this vehicle is in France. Moving on from that to discuss the possibility that some English fuckwits seem to think that all they need to do is buy a 4x4 and voila! they can drive on snow is not off-topic either. > Sadly, when some people can't answer the question it seems that they feel > they have to pick holes in other parts of the post. I didn't ask whether > my keeping the vehicle in France was a good idea, therefore I don't really > see why people wish to comment on it. Because they can. > It will be kept in France Why not buy a left hooker in France then? If you want something cheap and with "oomph" why not buy a 4x4 Xantia or a 4x4 BX over there? The excuse about registration is bizarrely pathetic. I do hope you're not one of those Brits that lives life like a little Englander while abroad, I hate the whining ex-pats. > and yes it will be a 4x4. One wonders why. > Now, back on topic. We were never off-topic. > I've been looking at a few Audi Quattros and a couple of Mondeo 4x4's > on eBay which seem good value. They tend to have a highish mileage on > them though - any problem with the Ford 4x4 or Quattro drive train of > the mid-90's ? I hope you get the car you deserve. Signature"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 > Why not buy a left hooker in France then? If you want something cheap > and with "oomph" why not buy a 4x4 Xantia or a 4x4 BX over there? The > excuse about registration is bizarrely pathetic. I do hope you're not > one of those Brits that lives life like a little Englander while abroad, > I hate the whining ex-pats. They did a 4x4 BX? Cool. Did they do a 4x4 version of the GTI? SignaturePeter Get Circumcised to e-mail me Fiat Panda 4x4, just about to be released again ?? . > They did a 4x4 BX? Cool. Did they do a 4x4 version of the GTI? > Fiat Panda 4x4, just about to be released again ?? It's released in Europe. Saw one parked up in Rome a couple of days ago. It's like a Panda, but on stilts. BTW - Talk about ludicrous... "VW Polo Fun" - not just an Oxymoron, but a VW Polo given the StreetRover/C3 XTR/Rancho treatment... Bwahahahahahahaha... > > Fiat Panda 4x4, just about to be released again ?? > > It's released in Europe. Saw one parked up in Rome a couple of days ago. > > It's like a Panda, but on stilts. Selling like hot cakes in rural Italy. My neighbour has ditched his Smart ForFour and bought a Panda 4x4 diesel. The Panda is ideal for the Apennines where a combination of white roads, potholes, mudslides and heavy snowfall make standard saloon cars fairly useless. Signature"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 > > Why not buy a left hooker in France then? If you want something cheap > > and with "oomph" why not buy a 4x4 Xantia or a 4x4 BX over there? The [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > They did a 4x4 BX? Cool. Did they do a 4x4 version of the GTI? Yes, they only imported the (8 Valve) GTi version into the UK, I think. There were 1.9 and 1.9 Diesel versions in France. There's also a 4x4 version of the Mi16 (with a turbo). Quite a few of these available in France for about EUR 2000. I'll post some URLs when the email with the URLs in it makes its way to this machine. One suggestion I haven't seen from others is a Mitsubishi Evo, it's possible to get a K reg Evo within the £3k budget. Signature"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 > > Why not buy a left hooker in France then? If you want something cheap > > and with "oomph" why not buy a 4x4 Xantia or a 4x4 BX over there? The [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > They did a 4x4 BX? Cool. Did they do a 4x4 version of the GTI? They did a 1.9 petrol version, not sure whether it was the proper GTi engine or a detuned version. There was also a Group B rally car version - the BX 4TC (as in 4wd TurboCharged). Pug did the sister cars - a 405 GLx4/GRx4 (both 1.9s i believe), the Mi16x4 and of course the 405 T16. > They did a 4x4 BX? Cool. Did they do a 4x4 version of the GTI? OK, here we go, BX 4x4, Pug 4x4 and Airtrek[1] URLs. BX 4x4 <http://www.channel4.com/4car/feature/topten/forgotten-4x4s/forgotten-4x 4s-6.html> <http://www.citroenz.com/BX/rt4x4.html> <http://home.wanadoo.nl/cwdegier/techdraw.html> <http://www.webmycar.com/zonecar/webacar.nsf/fr/6BB17A77101AB63CC1256F15 0079C57C> Peugeot Mi 16 4x4 (Garrett T3) <http://www.globalcar.com/datasheet/Peugeot/1989Peugeot405MI-164x4.htm> <http://www.automobile-sportive.com/guide/peugeot/405mi16.php> <http://www.webmycar.com/zonecar/webacar.nsf/fr/CF1468A24D4F424CC1256FA0 0039FDE3> Airtrek <http://www.xtreme-uk.net/AirTrekTurboROverview.asp> <http://www.difflock.com/buyersguide/newcars/mitsubishi_airtrek.shtml> [1] Forgot to mention that one as well, but an Airtrek or VR4 would be my choice for a fast 4x4 cross country car. Or an American 4x4 if I was serious about crossing continents and then driving up a mountain in snow. In fact since I am serious about crossing the Alps and the Apennines in order to get home, I did choose a yank tank. Signature"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 > > They did a 4x4 BX? Cool. Did they do a 4x4 version of the GTI? > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Peugeot Mi 16 4x4 (Garrett T3) The Mi16 didnt have a turbo. It was a 16v MPi with ~155bhp. The T16 had the turbo (not sure if it was a T3 or not though). > > Peugeot Mi 16 4x4 (Garrett T3) > > The Mi16 didnt have a turbo. It was a 16v MPi with ~155bhp. The T16 had > the turbo (not sure if it was a T3 or not though). That was in this country, go look at the URL. Signature"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 > > > Peugeot Mi 16 4x4 (Garrett T3) > > > > The Mi16 didnt have a turbo. It was a 16v MPi with ~155bhp. The T16 had > > the turbo (not sure if it was a T3 or not though). > > That was in this country, go look at the URL. I'm not that good at French, but they seem to agree with me. The Mi16x4 had the N/A engine which was brought out to compete with the Renault 21 Trubo 4x4, whereas the T16 had the turbo'd one which was a link the competition side of Peugeot and is very rare. >> Why not buy a left hooker in France then? If you want something cheap >> and with "oomph" why not buy a 4x4 Xantia or a 4x4 BX over there? The [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >They did a 4x4 BX? Cool. Did they do a 4x4 version of the GTI? How about a Lada? Signaturehugh Reply to address is valid at the time of posting >>> Why not buy a left hooker in France then? If you want something cheap >>> and with "oomph" why not buy a 4x4 Xantia or a 4x4 BX over there? The [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> > How about a Lada? This one would be interesting, the one about half way down the page. Built by Lada for racing, it has a 300ZX engine in. http://www.4wdonline.com/Lada/Lada.html Signaturesimon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk Simon Barr. '97 110 300Tdi. >>>> Why not buy a left hooker in France then? If you want something cheap >>>> and with "oomph" why not buy a 4x4 Xantia or a 4x4 BX over there? The [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >http://www.4wdonline.com/Lada/Lada.html Well, there you go - problem solved. Signaturehugh Reply to address is valid at the time of posting > They did a 4x4 BX? Cool. Did they do a 4x4 version of the GTI? Yep. We got two BX 4x4s in the UK - a GTi hatch and a 1.9i (so same mechanicals) estate. Also 405 4x4 - IIRC, it was 16v... They eat gearboxes and the bits are impossible to get. Many of the few you might see are now 4x2 again. In article <Xns961CBD90EB1D8adrianachapmanfreeis@130.133.1.4>, Adrian wrote:. > They eat gearboxes and the bits are impossible to get. Many of the few you > might see are now 4x2 again. That's a shame, I was alomst tempted to start looking for one. I've got a bit of a soft spot for BX's. Had two in the past, a BX DTR estate and a BX19 TZ something or other. Signaturesimon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk Simon Barr. '97 110 300Tdi. > No. I asked a very simple question. I want a 4x4 saloon type vehicle > for under £3k. I was looking for reccomendations for the best for the > money. Thankfully, some people have replied to my direct question. A common problem, and one that seems to have no solution. People will assume you are wrong and will try to tell you so and how you should do it, despite not knowing one tiny part of the situation. Such is life. > I've been looking at a few Audi Quattros and a couple of Mondeo 4x4's > on eBay which seem good value. They tend to have a highish mileage on > them though - any problem with the Ford 4x4 or Quattro drive train of > the mid-90's ? I owned a 90 Quattro, 1988 I think, from 60,000 to 115,000 miles with never a single peep, clonk or grind from the drivetrain, the mechanic who serviced the car told me that he used to own one exactly like mine and had never seen a quattro drivetrain go wrong. Thankfully too, as it would cost an arm and a leg to repair! SignatureFor every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert > My parents have just purchased a property in the French alps, and we > are looking to purchase a car which will spend most of its life down > there on the snow bound roads of the Alps (inc. Switzerland). > > We dont want to spend any more than say ?3,000 (less if we can), and > want something reliable and fun to drive 2cv > The car will be a UK car with UK plates, insured in the UK to drive in > France and will be taken back once a year for it's MOT test! Why on earth? how about a Lada Niva? Cheap and competent! Tim >how about a Lada Niva? Cheap and competent! > >Tim I've heard the Fiat Panda is the hottest selling 4x4 at the moment. Signaturehugh Reply to address is valid at the time of posting > I've heard the Fiat Panda is the hottest selling 4x4 at the moment. It certainly is in Italy. It meets the needs of people who live over 1200 feet above sea level, that's a large fraction of the Italian population. After about a year of living in Italy I realised a 4x4 isn't a luxury. Signature"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 >>how about a Lada Niva? Cheap and competent! > I've heard the Fiat Panda is the hottest selling 4x4 at the moment. Yes, but they're brand-spankin', so not cheap. Give 'em a couple of years. |
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