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Car Forum / UK Car Forums / Car Modifications (UK group) / July 2009I drove a Focus for the first time today....
....and am inclined to say that SteveH doesn't know what he's talking about. It was a 56 plate 1.8TDCI Sport that had done 80k miles (and been abused for most of them) and I couldn't fault the way it drove. It handled well , the engine pulled strongly and claimed to be doing about 55mpg. The interior looked a bit too plasticky for my liking (though didn't creak) and the spec was pretty average with just front electric windows and manual aircon plus a crap stereo, but I'm sure that could be avoided with a better choice of spec.... On the whole it was pretty good.  SignatureAlex "I laugh in the face of danger , then I hide until it goes away" > ....and am inclined to say that SteveH doesn't know what he's talking about. > > It was a 56 plate 1.8TDCI Sport that had done 80k miles (and been abused for most of them) and I couldn't fault the way it drove. > It handled well , the engine pulled strongly and claimed to be doing about 55mpg. > > The interior looked a bit too plasticky for my liking (though didn't creak) and the spec was pretty average with just front electric windows and manual aircon plus a crap stereo, but I'm sure that could be avoided with a better choice of spec.... It can. Ghia gets proper climate control, leccy windows all round. Sounds like you had a LX. SignatureConor www.notebooks-r-us.co.uk I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams > ....and am inclined to say that SteveH doesn't know what he's talking about. You can't say that, Alex! It's correct, but you can't just come out and say it, that ruins all the fun. > It was a 56 plate 1.8TDCI Sport that had done 80k miles (and been abused for most of them) and I couldn't fault the way it drove. > It handled well , the engine pulled strongly and claimed to be doing about 55mpg. I like them. I love the handling. Steering is excellent. > The interior looked a bit too plasticky for my liking (though didn't creak) and the spec was pretty average with just front electric windows and manual aircon plus a crap stereo, but I'm sure that could be avoided with a better choice of spec.... It sounds like it was Rep spec. > On the whole it was pretty good. They are excellent cars. SignaturePete M - OMF#9 '62 Rover P4 100 '61 Rover P5 3 litre '72 Rover P6 3500 Auto '78 Escort 1300 Sport '96 Volvo 850 T5 CD Estate "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move." On 13 July, 17:58, Pete M <pete.mur...@SPAMFREEblueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > > ....and am inclined to say that SteveH doesn't know what he's talking about. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I like them. I love the handling. Whilst I'd agree the back end is well planted whatever you throw at it, the front end can be provoked into letting go and ploughing on far easier than you would imagine given all the praise foisted on these for handling well etc. I punted the hire one I had whilst the Passat was off the road down a back road I know very well, and whilst the back end was spot on, the front end was a disappointment as was the ride considering their reputation. -- JackH >> > ....and am inclined to say that SteveH doesn't know what he's talking >> > about. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > front end was a disappointment as was the ride considering their > reputation. If the setup is anything remotely like the Puma, it'll be sensitive to what front tyres it's got on. The Puma has some Michelins on when I got it, and behaved like that. Now it's got Pirellis on it, it sticks like sh.t to a blanket Mike P > >> > ....and am inclined to say that SteveH doesn't know what he's talking > >> > about. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > If the setup is anything remotely like the Puma, it'll be sensitive to > what front tyres it's got on. It was a fairly low mileage hire car, so I presume it was sitting on whatever it is they leave the factory with. I'll describe them now; mostly black and round. ;-) -- JackH ....and am inclined to say that SteveH doesn't know what he's talking about. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where is Steve recently ? > Where is Steve recently ? Telling everyone in the Mac groups that the Pious is the best car on the road. And trashing the Focus while he's at it. > Telling everyone in the Mac groups that the Pious is the best car on the > road. And trashing the Focus while he's at it. Autocar have just tested the new Prius. Rumour has it Toyota wouldn't let them test another after the original test when they first came out where they got 24 MPG overall - and less on their touring route than the a very much faster 3 Series diesel. Seems the latest one with a bigger engine has quite respectable open road performance. The original - which I had on loan for a week - was like a side valve Morris Minor... Overall, they were quite complimentary. Signature*When it rains, why don't sheep shrink? * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. > > Telling everyone in the Mac groups that the Pious is the best car on the > > road. And trashing the Focus while he's at it. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Overall, they were quite complimentary. I've seen several reports that the 2010 Pious is better than the two previous versions. Although still not that great compared to a modern diseasel. However el SteveH has the old one. >> Telling everyone in the Mac groups that the Pious is the best car on the >> road. And trashing the Focus while he's at it. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Overall, they were quite complimentary. I wonder if they'd let Top Gear have another go in one as part of a head to head with an M3 around their track.... Signature"For want of the price of tea and a slice, the old man died." > ....and am inclined to say that SteveH doesn't know what he's talking > about. > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Where is Steve recently ? Recharging his batteries? SignatureAnd remember kids, RAID is safe and the UPS never fails, and Cisco routers never develop intermittent faults, and external hard drives never fail with only a month's use, and the DNS is reliable and resilient, and the mailserver is protected from all forms of attack, and the replacement UPS will be reliable as the first one was an unusual failure. > ....and am inclined to say that SteveH doesn't know what he's talking about. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > On the whole it was pretty good. How about the visibility? I thought it was crap when I had one for a couple of days. The Astra was better. > How about the visibility? I thought it was crap when I had one for a > couple of days. The Astra was better. You have to be bloody kidding. The view through the Astra rear window is on a par with the Lotus Europa - the 1970s Europa. All cars nowadays have stupidly thick 'A' posts. Which I suspect is the cause of a lot of SMIDSYs. >> How about the visibility? I thought it was crap when I had one for a >> couple of days. The Astra was better. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > All cars nowadays have stupidly thick 'A' posts. Which I suspect is the > cause of a lot of SMIDSYs. 3 door astras are crap for visibility but the 5 door ones are ok > > How about the visibility? I thought it was crap when I had one for a > > couple of days. The Astra was better. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > All cars nowadays have stupidly thick 'A' posts. Which I suspect is the > cause of a lot of SMIDSYs. Agreed. The Citroen C3 I drive occasionally at the moment is terrible in this respect. -- JackH >> How about the visibility? I thought it was crap when I had one for a >> couple of days. The Astra was better. > > You have to be bloody kidding Nope. I didn't say the Astra had brilliant rear visibility ;) But I drove a Focus and an Astra back to back and to me anyway the Astra was less like looking out of a letterbox. It was a 5 door, not the 3 door with the huge roof chop which looks like it has terrible visibility, from the outside at least. Then I got the Megane... >> ....and am inclined to say that SteveH doesn't know what he's talking about. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > How about the visibility? I thought it was crap when I had one for a > couple of days. The Astra was better. No different to my Bravo - a huge A pillar that you need to make an effort to look round. SignatureAlex "I laugh in the face of danger , then I hide until it goes away" On 13 July, 16:43, "Dr Zoidberg" <AlexNOOOO!!!!!...@drzoidberg.co.uk> wrote: > ....and am inclined to say that SteveH doesn't know what he's talking about. > > It was a 56 plate 1.8TDCI Sport that had done 80k miles (and been abused for most of them) and I couldn't fault the way it drove. > It handled well , the engine pulled strongly and claimed to be doing about 55mpg. I guess they must get better economy wise the more miles they have under them then, only the hire one I had briefly last year averaged 42mpg overall on a steady run from Kent to Devon... or so the computer reckoned. -- JackH > On 13 July, 16:43, "Dr Zoidberg" <AlexNOOOO!!!!!...@drzoidberg.co.uk> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > -- > JackH The computer in Ye Olde Golfe also reckons that in my mix of driving I get 42mpg. It's actually 38. > ....and am inclined to say that SteveH doesn't know what he's talking about. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > On the whole it was pretty good. I drove one a couple of weeks ago whilst helping a friend choose a hatchback in the sub £1500 bracket. Amongst a whole range of things we tried out was a 90k 1.6 LX focus; I was genuinely impressed by it. It still felt tight and very responsive. Grip was good considering the meagre tyre size and the ride and handling compromise was very well judged [1]. The engine was no ball of fire, but I reckon you could have fun in it without huge gobs of power. [1] the salesman didn't come along for the test drive... > I was genuinely impressed by it. It > still felt tight and very responsive. Grip was good considering the > meagre tyre size and the ride and handling compromise was very well > judged [1]. Most people, and I think SteveH is one of them, never get to find out how well a Focus handles. If you drive it like granny's shopping trolley it's just a car. All cars (except for some really vile specimens) are docile and seem to "handle" okay if you're simply pottering around. This is how companies like Proton manager to sell cars to pensioners. Reginald Molehusband never drives above 25mph anywhere and even then he brakes for every corner. Someone who goes around a corner with their foot on the brake knows (0) about driving or handling. However drive a Focus properly and it's a smile-on-you-face experience. Go into a corner faster than you ever thought was possible, expecting some nasty squealy understeer and and close hedge experience and the control blade rear end keeps it doing exactly what you want. OK, it's still not as good as a proper RWD car, but it's good to drive for FWD. >> I was genuinely impressed by it. It >> still felt tight and very responsive. Grip was good considering the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > control blade rear end keeps it doing exactly what you want. OK, it's > still not as good as a proper RWD car, but it's good to drive for FWD. The Puma's like that. You can throw it into corners like a loon and it just goes round them. The inside tyre will squeal a bit but it never gets fussy, doesn't understeer and just goes where you point it. I'm talking speeds where you end up bracing yourself against the door, 90+ no pottering. It's like a 205 GTi but doesn't try to kill you if you lift off mid-bend and it's surprisingly steerable on the throttle for an FWD car. Another car that surprised me recently was the Xantia Activa that belongs to AVM of this parish. Went over a humpback bridge faster than was neccessary near here only for Pete to tell me to turn right immediately after. Big dab of the brakes, spin of the wheel and it just turned. No fuss at all. I'd have been in the trees in it's diesel cousin Mike P > Another car that surprised me recently was the Xantia Activa that belongs > to AVM of this parish. Went over a humpback bridge faster than was > neccessary near here only for Pete to tell me to turn right immediately > after. Big dab of the brakes, spin of the wheel and it just turned. No > fuss at all. I'd have been in the trees in it's diesel cousin Yes, I'd always fancied an Activa for that. But now there's the Jag with electrical clever suspension that pulls the same trick, so I have something to lust after that's in accord with my taste in cars. Hmm saw the new XJR recently, I'm not sure at present. Front end looks a but Hyundai/Audi the rear is either Lincoln or Hundy. >>> I was genuinely impressed by it. It >>> still felt tight and very responsive. Grip was good considering the [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > after. Big dab of the brakes, spin of the wheel and it just turned. No > fuss at all. I'd have been in the trees in it's diesel cousin Pete did something similar to me when we were winning the Pothunter Rally in the Ka. I overshot the junction and backed up. ;-) SignatureThe DervMan www.dervman.com > However drive a Focus properly and it's a smile-on-you-face experience. > Go into a corner faster than you ever thought was possible, expecting > some nasty squealy understeer and and close hedge experience and the > control blade rear end keeps it doing exactly what you want. Meanwhile, the front end pushes on, and with you travelling at a lower rate of velocity than you do the same corner in your Passat TDI... was my experience of it. Maybe the petrol engined ones are that much lighter on the front end and don't suffer in this respect so much, maybe not. Fair enough, the rear end felt more planted... but as an overall package, it certainly wasn't the be all and end all of handling / ride I'd been led to believe it would be by some in here. -- JackH > > However drive a Focus properly and it's a smile-on-you-face experience. > > Go into a corner faster than you ever thought was possible, expecting [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > package, it certainly wasn't the be all and end all of handling / ride > I'd been led to believe it would be by some in here. This thread is a fair old demonstration of why I rarely read the group anymore. Hence a post from google. My summary: Steering not as sharp as either of my 156s. Ride not as comfortable as my B5 Passat. More understeer than my shagged Primera. Slower than and less economical than my B6 Passat. Three times as expensive on company car tax than my Prius. Not as well screwed together as a B5 or B6. The 156 is arguably better built - certainly finished in a nicer quality of trim. Crap spec. for your money (£18.5k for a rep-spec 1.6TDCI Estate, ffs) Fine as transport for those with no interest in cars at all, but, as JackH says, not the last word in ride and handling as both this group and the media would have you believe. Feel free to continue slating both my driving and choice of car in my absence, though. -- SteveH > Steering not as sharp as either of my 156s. 156s have quick racks. Has always been a trait of them that made especially early ones a bit odd on motorways. > Ride not as comfortable as my B5 Passat. B5 passats were like jelly > More understeer than my shagged Primera. You're not driving properly > Slower than and less economical than my B6 Passat. You were thrashing the Focus. > Three times as expensive on company car tax than my Prius. And > Not as well screwed together as a B5 or B6. The 156 is arguably better B5 / B6 is a VW. 156 is laughably unlikely. > Crap spec. for your money (£18.5k for a rep-spec 1.6TDCI Estate, ffs) Followed by big discount for fleet purchases. > Fine as transport for those with no interest in cars at all, but, as > JackH says, not the last word in ride and handling as both this group > and the media would have you believe. And yet you're comparing a 100 bhp 1.6 diesel to your passat. Hmm. Not much comparison really. FWIW (not much) the V50 is a brilliant car, but oddly I prefer my rear drive 2.7 litre merc. > Feel free to continue slating both my driving and choice of car in my > absence, though. You can't drive and your cars are crap. HTH. Apart from the Prius, which I really like. SignatureAnd remember kids, RAID is safe and the UPS never fails, and Cisco routers never develop intermittent faults, and external hard drives never fail with only a month's use, and the DNS is reliable and resilient, and the mailserver is protected from all forms of attack, and the replacement UPS will be reliable as the first one was an unusual failure. >> > However drive a Focus properly and it's a smile-on-you-face >> > experience. Go into a corner faster than you ever thought was [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > trim. Crap spec. for your money (£18.5k for a rep-spec 1.6TDCI Estate, > ffs) I always thought a Focus was a Golf sized motor, ie a class below the Passat (which I'd say was a Mondeo class motor?).. so why are you comparing the two? I don't know what a new Prius is like, but my mate's 08 plate one is *nowhere* near as nice as an 03 plate Focus TDCi. Mike P > Feel free to continue slating both my driving and choice of car in my > absence, though. You couldn't resist the flounce after all! SignatureDouglas > On 14 July, 12:10, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > package, it certainly wasn't the be all and end all of handling / ride > I'd been led to believe it would be by some in here. This thread is a fair old demonstration of why I rarely read the group anymore. Hence a post from google. My summary: Steering not as sharp as either of my 156s. Ride not as comfortable as my B5 Passat. More understeer than my shagged Primera. Slower than and less economical than my B6 Passat. Three times as expensive on company car tax than my Prius. Not as well screwed together as a B5 or B6. The 156 is arguably better built - certainly finished in a nicer quality of trim. Crap spec. for your money (£18.5k for a rep-spec 1.6TDCI Estate, ffs) Fine as transport for those with no interest in cars at all, but, as JackH says, not the last word in ride and handling as both this group and the media would have you believe. Feel free to continue slating both my driving and choice of car in my absence, though. ------------------------------------------------------------------- will do you fat, Welsh dwelling, anti everything, miserable old git :) >> However drive a Focus properly and it's a smile-on-you-face experience. >> Go into a corner faster than you ever thought was possible, expecting [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > rate of velocity than you do the same corner in your Passat TDI... was > my experience of it. Pushing on in a Passat TDI is a horrible experience. They grip quite impressively, meanwhile the smile you get from driving a good handling car is wiped from your face. SignatureDouglas >>> However drive a Focus properly and it's a smile-on-you-face >>> experience. Go into a corner faster than you ever thought was [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Pushing on in a Passat TDI is a horrible experience. Just out of interest, what sort of speeds do people here consider "pushing on"?. It might help make sense of this post. Mike P >>>> However drive a Focus properly and it's a smile-on-you-face >>>> experience. Go into a corner faster than you ever thought was [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Just out of interest, what sort of speeds do people here consider > "pushing on"?. It might help make sense of this post. To me its not a speed, its more where you get towards the edges of the manners envelope of the car. The Passat TDI in the Payne stable is very practical, capable, controlled, carries 5 real adults, is grippy, has adequate performance and is frugal. It still manages to be horrible. I think most of my complaints centre around the steering. And the seats. And the lack of communication from the chassis. It might have a shot at the lazy motorway cruiser title if the Saab 9-5 wasn't much quieter, better handling and much, much more comfortable to drive. SignatureDouglas > >>>> However drive a Focus properly and it's a smile-on-you-face > >>>> experience. Go into a corner faster than you ever thought was [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > controlled, carries 5 real adults, is grippy, has adequate performance > and is frugal. ,,,and IIRC, is a cooking B5. Mine was a B5.5 Sport, and besides the fact the B5.5 was tweaked chassis wise and considered a better car over the B5 in that respect, being a Sport it was running with lower profile tyres and stiffened suspension, both of which appeared to help. -- JackH >>>>>> However drive a Focus properly and it's a smile-on-you-face >>>>>> experience. Go into a corner faster than you ever thought was [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > being a Sport it was running with lower profile tyres and stiffened > suspension, both of which appeared to help. I think Passats are great cars. Good to work on, I like the quality engineering (after mucking about with french cars) and the way they are screwed together. However. If I want fast, I won't get a Passat, Sport or otherwise. If I want comfortable " " " " " If I want enjoyable to drive " " " " I've never been in your Passat but I struggle to believe that it was sigificantly less wooly, detached and horrible to drive than any other. SignatureDouglas > >>>>>> However drive a Focus properly and it's a smile-on-you-face > >>>>>> experience. Go into a corner faster than you ever thought was [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > I've never been in your Passat but I struggle to believe that it was > sigificantly less wooly, detached and horrible to drive than any other. Believe what you want; I owned and drove it for 16 months, and only sold it because I talked myself into buying an MPV. Had it been an estate, I'd still have it now. Had my tame mechanic decided to get a new van and sell me his old one a few weeks earlier, I'd still have it now. But I haven't... instead, having since also disposed of the MPV, I now have the aforementioned shite old van and a Seat Ibiza TDI Sport 130, with the latter having been remapped today. :-) -- JackH >>>>> Pushing on in a Passat TDI is a horrible experience. >>>> Just out of interest, what sort of speeds do people here consider [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > engineering (after mucking about with french cars) and the way they are > screwed together. To my shame, after all my passat-slating, I am in possesion of another example (B5.5). I need a practical, frugal estate which will swallow the astonishing amount of gear we apparently need to go camping, two thundering great labradors and which won't break down half-way across the highlands; it does all this very well. It was also offered to me at a depreciation dodging price... I like the engine (PD130), I like the stereo, I like the layout and the 'solidity' of the thing. I *don't* like the utter lack of handling, the nanny-mentality of the central locking and trip-info computer thing, the bouncy ride and the constant nagging feeling that I could actually be having fun if only I was driving something else. > However. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I've never been in your Passat but I struggle to believe that it was > sigificantly less wooly, detached and horrible to drive than any other. My experience of the sport is that it has more grip than the 'comfort' models, the ride is stiffer but still rather underdamped and it is quite difficult to get a trolley jack under it. Other than that it has the same basic Passatiness as the normal models. >>>>>> Pushing on in a Passat TDI is a horrible experience. >>>>> Just out of interest, what sort of speeds do people here consider [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > difficult to get a trolley jack under it. Other than that it has the > same basic Passatiness as the normal models. I've been saying all this for years. I actually quite liked the B5 Passat Sport TDi when they came out, as I ran one for a few weeks back in '98. Even then the handling was wobbly and the ride wasn't that good but the interior was quite a nice place to be and the radio was ok. The Passat is a good car for a motorist, the Mondeo is a car for a driver. SignaturePete M - OMF#9 '62 Rover P4 100 '61 Rover P5 3 litre '72 Rover P6 3500 Auto '78 Escort 1300 Sport '96 Volvo 850 T5 CD Estate "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move." On Jul 23, 6:16 pm, Pete M <pete.mur...@SPAMFREEblueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > >>>>>> Pushing on in a Passat TDI is a horrible experience. > >>>>> Just out of interest, what sort of speeds do people here consider [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > in '98. Even then the handling was wobbly and the ride wasn't that good > but the interior was quite a nice place to be and the radio was ok. The stereo in mine was excellent for standard kit - really decent quality speakers, plus the headunit needed one lead plugged into it if you wanted to run pre outs for external amps etc. Much better speakers than in this Ibiza, anyway. As for the ride / handling, the B5.5 was improved over the B5, and so whilst I doubt it will ever win over the non-believers, I found mine great. Aside from anything else, it never once caught me out, wet or dry, despite my best efforts to provoke it into doing so. With that in mind, I suspect that in itself is one of the reasons it did so well on the track against various 'hot hatches'; I knew just how far I could push it, had 100% belief in it when I threw it into bends etc. and it didn't disappoint. :-) I can see, having driven my mates standard Highline in the past week, why some may find them boring... but a Sport sorted with a decent map is something I'd have again for sure. The one thing that lets them down if pushed to their limits on a track etc, are the brakes. They overheat far too easily. -- JackH > The Passat TDI in the Payne stable is very practical, capable, > controlled, carries 5 real adults, is grippy, has adequate performance [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > around the steering. And the seats. And the lack of communication from > the chassis. The Passat and the Vectra both strike me as very similar cars to drive. Dull to the point of being bloody irritating. Here's the problem, as I see it. When you have a list price of £18.5k, you have to deliver a bloody good product in that class. Plastic door cards, wind down rear windows, manual air-con, plastic wheel trims and a £19.99 Matsui quality head unit don't add up to a vehicle costing £18.5k. At the discounted price of circa. £14k, some of the above can be dismissed as reasonable for the price. However, company cars are taxed on list prices, which makes the Focus hopelessly outclassed. A quick comparison shows a Golf 1.6TDI Bluemotion SE is listed at 800 quid less than the Focus - so that's a lower list and lower tax band. Even a Passat Bluemotion is cheaper than a Focus 1.6TDCI Style. So, I'll stick by my thoughts - for the money, the Focus is a long way from being a great car. If it were taxed on the discounted price, I may have thought differently - although even then, it would still cost double what a hybrid would cost to tax. -- SteveH Here's the problem, as I see it. When you have a list price of £18.5k, you have to deliver a bloody good product in that class. Plastic door cards, wind down rear windows, manual air-con, plastic wheel trims and a £19.99 Matsui quality head unit don't add up to a vehicle costing £18.5k. At the discounted price of circa. £14k, some of the above can be dismissed as reasonable for the price. However, company cars are taxed on list prices, which makes the Focus hopelessly outclassed. --------------------------------------- Strangely enough I was having this exact conversation with my FD yesterday, as we're just ordering another Focus pool car at work. The list price is crazily high for what you get (1.6TDCi Style is what we ordered IIRC), but the monthly rental is not in line with the list price when compared to other similar cars - clearly the lease company get a nice fat discount on that £18k. Tomorrow (today..) I get to finally have a go in the new Focus I took delivery of a few months back - a 1.6 (petrol) Style Auto, with sequential 'manaul' shift. I'm expecting great things! > Here's the problem, as I see it. > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > delivery of a few months back - a 1.6 (petrol) Style Auto, with sequential > 'manaul' shift. I'm expecting great things! I had one of those as a hire car in Dublin. Slow doesn't even begin to describe it. And low 30s mpg, too. Fortunately, my hire car was a Ghia, which meant there were some toys to keep me occupied. Style is the new name for LX, which means stripped out poverty. -- SteveH > Slow doesn't even begin to describe it. > > And low 30s mpg, too. Driving style. I find our 1.6 petrol V50 slow, but it's fine from 4000-7000 rpm. It does hurt the MPG though and anything over 70mph, or being a twat in town, will see mid 20s. SignatureAnd remember kids, RAID is safe and the UPS never fails, and Cisco routers never develop intermittent faults, and external hard drives never fail with only a month's use, and the DNS is reliable and resilient, and the mailserver is protected from all forms of attack, and the replacement UPS will be reliable as the first one was an unusual failure. > So, I'll stick by my thoughts - for the money, the Focus is a long way > from being a great car. If it were taxed on the discounted price, I > may have thought differently - although even then, it would still cost > double what a hybrid would cost to tax. Of course, 19k gets you into a 1.6d V50, 19.5 into a 2.0D, 17k into a petrol one. Climate. Cloth door panels, electric windows all round, alloy wheels, Volvo stereo, everything the focus has and more. So if you're a user chooser that makes much more sense. 1.6D drive E stop start is 104gm/km too. SignatureAnd remember kids, RAID is safe and the UPS never fails, and Cisco routers never develop intermittent faults, and external hard drives never fail with only a month's use, and the DNS is reliable and resilient, and the mailserver is protected from all forms of attack, and the replacement UPS will be reliable as the first one was an unusual failure. > Here's the problem, as I see it. > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > may have thought differently - although even then, it would still cost > double what a hybrid would cost to tax. Your argument against the way the Focus drives appears to revolve purely around the fact that that it costs some users what you think too much in company car tax. Personally I never sit in the back of my car and I don't give a flying f.ck if it doesn't have electric windows in the front or the back. I have arms like an ape anyway and could reach the rear window winder if I suddenly decided to open them. Anyway, isn't that what air conditioning is for? As a supposed car nut you chose a Prius and insist on your employer providing you with a sub 200bhp[1] automatic. Doesn't sound like entertainment to me. How many miles has your 75 done in the last year? How many track days? It's not that the Focus is for people who don't like driving. I think it's that you don't like driving so didn't enjoy the Focus. [1] Arbitary figure I decided that automatic saloons should not have less than. SignatureDouglas > As a supposed car nut you chose a Prius and insist on your employer > providing you with a sub 200bhp[1] automatic. Doesn't sound like > entertainment to me. IIRC, Steve was supposed to be getting a Prius from day one and only ended up with a Focus initially as a stop gap whilst his employer waited for a Prius to come back into the fleet for him to have, and that he was told he'd be getting a Prius with the job when he took it rather than being given a long list of cars to choose from and him then opting for a Prius by choice. <Cue a long list of 'I wouldn't work for someone who didn't allow me to pick from a long list of cars' type comments> -- JackH > > As a supposed car nut you chose a Prius and insist on your employer > > providing you with a sub 200bhp[1] automatic. Doesn't sound like [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > <Cue a long list of 'I wouldn't work for someone who didn't allow me > to pick from a long list of cars' type comments> That's more or less it. Although the Focus could have been kept, had it been any good. Which it wasn't. Too much missing kit for it to be a decent car for someone in a regional role - no arm-rest, crap stereo and, yes, wind-down rear windows aren't much fun when you can do up to 1k miles in a week. (Leccy windows in the back are great to get some airflow in the car before the aircon gets ice-cold on a hot day). If people would take their blinkers off and stop quoting Clarsonisms, they may see that a Prius is actually a very good car - for company car users who do a fair bit of business mileage and next to no private miles. I haven't used the 75 as much as I hoped this year - but I've done around 5k miles on bikes since February - which eats into time I'd spend driving the 75. However, I have used the 75 for work on a handful of occasions, when I felt like a change. -- SteveH >>> As a supposed car nut you chose a Prius and insist on your employer >>> providing you with a sub 200bhp[1] automatic. Doesn't sound like [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > (Leccy windows in the back are great to get some airflow in the car > before the aircon gets ice-cold on a hot day). I have done more than 1000 miles a week many, many times, for work and just for the craic. I've still never missed being able to wind the rear windows down. Apart from in a list of 'What pointless features does your car have?'. Admitedly its not the most pointless feature I have encountered, but its not as useful as for instance, being able to dim the instrument panel on a Saab. (c; How do the rear window winders affect the way the Focus drives? > If people would take their blinkers off and stop quoting Clarsonisms, > they may see that a Prius is actually a very good car - for company > car users who do a fair bit of business mileage and next to no private > miles. So its good because of cheap tax? How does company car tax affect the way the supposedly terrible Focus drives? > I haven't used the 75 as much as I hoped this year - but I've done > around 5k miles on bikes since February - which eats into time I'd > spend driving the 75. So you don't enjoy driving that much either? > However, I have used the 75 for work on a handful of occasions, when I > felt like a change. Good. Just out of interest. Can you give us some real world brim to brim tankful MPG figures? Failing that, a reading from the trip computer? SignatureDouglas Douglas Payne <douggie@cheerful.com> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: >> (Leccy windows in the back are great to get some airflow in the car >> before the aircon gets ice-cold on a hot day). > I have done more than 1000 miles a week many, many times, for work and > just for the craic. I've still never missed being able to wind the rear > windows down. Really? <genuinely surprised> Biggest benefit, apart from trying to get the most air possible through the car on a hot day, is when you have a sliding sunroof fully open - just cracking a rear window open a bit will usually immediately remove that horrible booming that often accompanies it. > Just out of interest. Can you give us some real world brim to brim > tankful MPG figures? Failing that, a reading from the trip computer? How does that affect how it drives...? > Douglas Payne <douggie@cheerful.com> gurgled happily, sounding much like > they were saying: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > just cracking a rear window open a bit will usually immediately remove > that horrible booming that often accompanies it. Perhaps it doesn't get that hot very often where I live. Also, some of my time has been spent driving vehicles that don't have opening rear windows and laterally of course I've just put the roof down to cool the interior of the car. >> Just out of interest. Can you give us some real world brim to brim >> tankful MPG figures? Failing that, a reading from the trip computer? > > How does that affect how it drives...? Heheh, just curious. Not curious enough to start a new thread. SignatureDouglas > Biggest benefit, apart from trying to get the most air possible through > the car on a hot day, Aircon, it just works, y'know? > is when you have a sliding sunroof fully open - just cracking a rear > window open a bit will usually immediately remove that horrible booming > that often accompanies it. Never been a problem on any Ford that I have driven. It has been a problem on all Alfas and Citroens. %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: >> Biggest benefit, apart from trying to get the most air possible through >> the car on a hot day, > Aircon, it just works, y'know? It's different. >> is when you have a sliding sunroof fully open - just cracking a rear >> window open a bit will usually immediately remove that horrible booming >> that often accompanies it. > Never been a problem on any Ford that I have driven. It has been a > problem on all Alfas and Citroens. The worst I've ever experienced it was on the Golf III. > %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) gurgled happily, sounding much like > they were saying: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > The worst I've ever experienced it was on the Golf III. Peugeot 205 GTi with the hyuuge sliding roof is the worst I've experienced for in car turbulance. SignaturePete M - OMF#9 '62 Rover P4 100 '61 Rover P5 3 litre '72 Rover P6 3500 Auto '78 Escort 1300 Sport '96 Volvo 850 T5 CD Estate "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move." Pete M <pete.murray@SPAMFREEblueyonder.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: > Peugeot 205 GTi with the hyuuge sliding roof is the worst I've > experienced for in car turbulance. Odd. Herself's 205 with huge external sliding roof doesn't do it at all - and being pikeyspec doesn't even have manually opening rear side windows. > Pete M <pete.murray@SPAMFREEblueyonder.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding > much like they were saying: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Odd. Herself's 205 with huge external sliding roof doesn't do it at all - > and being pikeyspec doesn't even have manually opening rear side windows. I used to find that 45-50 mph in a 205 with the roof open and the windows closed was painful. SignaturePete M - OMF#9 '62 Rover P4 100 '61 Rover P5 3 litre '72 Rover P6 3500 Auto '78 Escort 1300 Sport '96 Volvo 850 T5 CD Estate "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move." >>> Aircon, it just works, y'know? >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Peugeot 205 GTi with the hyuuge sliding roof is the worst I've experienced > for in car turbulance. Can't say I've particularly noticed it on the Activa, but I used to normally have the n/s/f and o/s/r windows open, as my hair's a little on the overgrown side and I don't want it to get blown in my face. Today, for a change, I tried the o/s/r open a bit with the sunroof slid fully open, and it did the trick nicely, and amusingly, instead of my hair being blown in my face, it was constantly being sucked upwards through the sunroof. Signature"For want of the price of tea and a slice, the old man died." > %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) gurgled happily, sounding much like > they were saying: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > The worst I've ever experienced it was on the Golf III. Was the wind deflector present? "Doki" <mrdoki@gmail.com> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: >> The worst I've ever experienced it was on the Golf III. > Was the wind deflector present? The little pop-up one at the front? Absolutely. Two of them were brand spankin' new (or very near) long-term (10k mile) rentals. The other was only 2-anna-bit yo and still on the original co.car lease. > > is when you have a sliding sunroof fully open - just cracking a rear > > window open a bit will usually immediately remove that horrible booming > > that often accompanies it. > Never been a problem on any Ford that I have driven. It has been a > problem on all Alfas and Citroens. I don't see how it can be avoided - try blowing across the top of a bottle etc. At some speed you *will* get resonance. Signature*Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder... Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. > > > is when you have a sliding sunroof fully open - just cracking a rear > > > window open a bit will usually immediately remove that horrible booming [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I don't see how it can be avoided - try blowing across the top of a bottle > etc. At some speed you *will* get resonance. All Fords that I have owned/driven with a sunroof have a small spoiler that raises and lowers automatically as the roof is opened that seems to be there to deflect the flow of air up. Citroens AFAIR don't have this feature and they were the worst I had driven for resonance. %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: > All Fords that I have owned/driven with a sunroof have a small spoiler > that raises and lowers automatically as the roof is opened that seems to > be there to deflect the flow of air up. Citroens AFAIR don't have this > feature and they were the worst I had driven for resonance. The XM most certainly did. The CX didn't, but didn't have any problems with resonance. The Saab doesn't - and doesn't have very much at all. >> > > is when you have a sliding sunroof fully open - just cracking a rear >> > > window open a bit will usually immediately remove that horrible booming [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > be there to deflect the flow of air up. Citroens AFAIR don't have this > feature and they were the worst I had driven for resonance. My Bravo has a fabric mesh spoiler that does the job ok - if you hold it down you can certainly hear the difference - but the one on my Octavia was better - a crenellated plastic one SignatureAlex "I laugh in the face of danger , then I hide until it goes away" > All Fords that I have owned/driven with a sunroof have a small spoiler > that raises and lowers automatically as the roof is opened that seems to > be there to deflect the flow of air up. Citroens AFAIR don't have this > feature and they were the worst I had driven for resonance. I was amazed the first time I opened the BMW sunroof up full at 90mph (on a track, obviously) and found it was only just loud enough to need to speak up. Very quiet, and no resonance that I noticed at any speed. My ancient Nova from years ago, however, would resonate like anything at quite low speed if you didn't have the right combination of windows open. I feared for the rear screen at times. > > All Fords that I have owned/driven with a sunroof have a small spoiler > > that raises and lowers automatically as the roof is opened that seems to [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > quite low speed if you didn't have the right combination of windows open. > I feared for the rear screen at times. On a recent cross-continent trip, I opened up the roof on my S60 at 150mph on Germany's finest to see what it was like. Surprisingly, the difference in noise was negligible. It does have a little straked pop- up spoiler on the leading edge of the sunroof aperature though. In article <3a364160-a87d-4747-b40a- 368980e0139f@a7g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>, andytucker@gmail.com says... > > > All Fords that I have owned/driven with a sunroof have a small spoiler > > > that raises and lowers automatically as the roof is opened that seems to [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > difference in noise was negligible. It does have a little straked pop- > up spoiler on the leading edge of the sunroof aperature though. The classic 900 I had, had a metal sunroof, and big permanent 80's style plastic full width spoiler. Had almost zero noise. The 9000 just had a little internal popup which was much louder. The IS200 has the little popup type and it isn't great. SignatureCarl Robson Get cashback on your purchases Topcashback http://www.TopCashBack.co.uk/skraggy_uk/ref/index.htm Greasypalm http://www.greasypalm.co.uk/r/?l=1006553 Elder <carl.robson@bouncing-czechs.com> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: > The classic 900 I had, had a metal sunroof, and big permanent 80's style > plastic full width spoiler. Had almost zero noise. Mine's got the factory roof, but not the deflector - and has fairly loud wind noise, but not the borderline-painful booming. The deflector could be tempting, but they do look very cheesetastic. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300330932707 > > The classic 900 I had, had a metal sunroof, and big permanent 80's style > > plastic full width spoiler. Had almost zero noise. > > Mine's got the factory roof, but not the deflector - and has fairly loud > wind noise, but not the borderline-painful booming. The factory deflector is fabulous. And proper retro 80's/90's like rear window louvres. SignatureCarl Robson Get cashback on your purchases Topcashback http://www.TopCashBack.co.uk/skraggy_uk/ref/index.htm Greasypalm http://www.greasypalm.co.uk/r/?l=1006553 >> > The classic 900 I had, had a metal sunroof, and big permanent 80's >> > style plastic full width spoiler. Had almost zero noise. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > The factory deflector is fabulous. > And proper retro 80's/90's like rear window louvres. Works too. One of mine had one on, though it was cheesetastic dark blue on a red car.. ace :-) Mike P > The deflector could be tempting, but they do look very cheesetastic. > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300330932707 The one on mine was brown smoked on a Silver car and did look proper. SignatureCarl Robson Get cashback on your purchases Topcashback http://www.TopCashBack.co.uk/skraggy_uk/ref/index.htm Greasypalm http://www.greasypalm.co.uk/r/?l=1006553 > I have done more than 1000 miles a week many, many times, for work and > just for the craic. I've still never missed being able to wind the rear [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > How do the rear window winders affect the way the Focus drives? It's not just about how it drives. The whole package is f.cking hopeless. Uninspiring to drive, no power, poor economy, large tax bill. What's to like about that? > > If people would take their blinkers off and stop quoting Clarksonisms, > > they may see that a Prius is actually a very good car - for company [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > So its good because of cheap tax? How does company car tax affect the > way the supposedly terrible Focus drives? See above. > So you don't enjoy driving that much either? For work purposes, not an awful lot, no. It's just something you have to do. > Just out of interest. Can you give us some real world brim to brim > tankful MPG figures? Failing that, a reading from the trip computer? Currently the computer is showing 47.8mpg. I haven't reset it since I got it, around 6 weeks ago. Whatever anyone says - find me another car of similar size and performance, with an auto box which will beat that. As an overall package, it's faster than the Focus was, doesn't handle in an appreciably worse manner, actually rides better, is a lot more refined and comes with proper build quality and kit levels - even if I'd had a base T3, which I don't. There are no truly awful cars in that class anymore - but the Focus isn't any better than any others - and in many ways it's worse. -- SteveH > Uninspiring to drive, no power, poor economy, large tax bill. But enough about the Prius. > I haven't used the 75 as much as I hoped this year - but I've done > around 5k miles on bikes since February - which eats into time I'd > spend driving the 75. Well personally I'm not quite sure what how many times you have or haven't used your 75 has to do with whether or not a Focus is as good / bad as some suggest, so I'm not entirely sure why you're answering that point tbh. ;-) -- JackH >> I haven't used the 75 as much as I hoped this year - but I've done >> around 5k miles on bikes since February - which eats into time I'd [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > good / bad as some suggest, so I'm not entirely sure why you're > answering that point tbh. ;-) The point I'm trying to make is that I think SteveH finds cars pretty hateful. Perhaps because judging by what he's said on here he often has to spend more of his life in a car he didn't choose and has a spec which he considers below a man of his standing within the company, than he does in his own bed. A man who cossets his weekend/track day car at considerable expense but almost never drives it at the weekend or at a track day. Someone who finds the act of driving a car so tedious might not be considered to be a particularly good judge of what makes a car good to drive. Especially as the argument has now turned from corner speeds and driving technique to company car tax and having a centre arm rest. SignatureDouglas > >> I haven't used the 75 as much as I hoped this year - but I've done > >> around 5k miles on bikes since February - which eats into time I'd [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > -- > Douglas Whatever you say, Doug. Haven't you got some aircraft to break, or something? Much as I like my cars, well, they're all a bit sh.t when compared with bikes. Even though I have spent far too much on my 75. In this country, cars are mostly tediously dull vehicles to drive, because there are far too many 40mph everywhere cocktards on the roads. None of this is to do with 'status' or any other such bollocks (it was important in my last job, but not this one, as I only ever deal with internal contacts these days) - it's to do with how fit the car is for the purpose. HTH. I suppose you'll call some kind of school-yard 'flounce' now. Or post that I must be a sh.t driver or some other such bollocks. But I'll leave you kids to play and spend some time doing something a bit more worthwhile than reading the opinions of the motoring media being posted as fact by billy-bullshitters who allegedly have driven every car anyone else has ever driven, but driven them faster and further, but still can only quote the commonly held media opinions of them. -- SteveH >>>> I haven't used the 75 as much as I hoped this year - but I've done >>>> around 5k miles on bikes since February - which eats into time I'd [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Whatever you say, Doug. I'm just trying to justify some of the utter shite you've posted to this group over the last couple of years. > Much as I like my cars, well, they're all a bit sh.t when compared > with bikes. Even though I have spent far too much on my 75. > > In this country, cars are mostly tediously dull vehicles to drive, > because there are far too many 40mph everywhere cocktards on the > roads. "Move somewhere less pikey". > None of this is to do with 'status' or any other such bollocks (it was > important in my last job, but not this one, as I only ever deal with [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I suppose you'll call some kind of school-yard 'flounce' now. Or post > that I must be a sh.t driver or some other such bollocks. You were doing quite well (after being unable to resist telling everyone why you left in the first place). It wasn't a flounce till this part: > But I'll leave you kids to play and spend some time doing something a > bit more worthwhile than reading the opinions of the motoring media > being posted as fact by billy-bullshitters who allegedly have driven > every car anyone else has ever driven, but driven them faster and > further, but still can only quote the commonly held media opinions of > them. SignatureDouglas > But I'll leave you kids to play and spend some time doing something a > bit more worthwhile than reading the opinions of the motoring media > being posted as fact by billy-bullshitters who allegedly have driven > every car anyone else has ever driven, but driven them faster and > further, but still can only quote the commonly held media opinions of > them. It could be that media journalists drive about the same number of different cars as other professional car people and therefore come to the same conclusions. SignaturePete M - OMF#9 '62 Rover P4 100 '61 Rover P5 3 litre '72 Rover P6 3500 Auto '78 Escort 1300 Sport '96 Volvo 850 T5 CD Estate "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move." >> But I'll leave you kids to play and spend some time doing something a >> bit more worthwhile than reading the opinions of the motoring media [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > cars as other professional car people and therefore come to the same > conclusions. Or to summarize, if everyone says it is sh.t and Steve H says it isn't, chances are it is sh.t. Fraser >>> But I'll leave you kids to play and spend some time doing something a >>> bit more worthwhile than reading the opinions of the motoring media [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Or to summarize, if everyone says it is sh.t and Steve H says it isn't, > chances are it is sh.t. Amazing, isn't it? SignatureThe DervMan www.dervman.com > > But I'll leave you kids to play and spend some time doing something a > > bit more worthwhile than reading the opinions of the motoring media [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > different cars as other professional car people and therefore come to > the same conclusions. I just can't see how anyone could drive a Prius and a Focus back-to-back and come to the conclusion that the Prius handles better or that the Prius is better built, has more interior room and a better "package" than the Focus. I think it's a classic case of "cognitive dissonance" or recto-oral inversion as it is better known. The basic truth is that the Pious is about the only car on offer to SteveH and that it has lower tax for him than a Focus. End of. Everything else is simply an attempt to justify driving around in an embarassing heap of crap. > >> I haven't used the 75 as much as I hoped this year - but I've done > >> around 5k miles on bikes since February - which eats into time I'd [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > The point I'm trying to make is that I think SteveH finds cars pretty > hateful. I think I know Steve well enough to that's not the case - finding *certain* cars aren't your cup of tea doesn't mean you find them hateful as a whole? > Perhaps because judging by what he's said on here he often has > to spend more of his life in a car he didn't choose and has a spec which > he considers below a man of his standing within the company, than he > does in his own bed. 'Familiarity breeds contempt' ;-) > A man who cossets his weekend/track day car at > considerable expense but almost never drives it at the weekend or at a > track day. What he chooses to do or not do with his 75, has little bearing on his observations and opinion of the Focus, having spent a fair amount of time driving one this year. Ergo, I still suspect you are clutching at straws with this particular line of argument. -- JackH In article <499f5fcf-4d59-4557-a5e5-ef48824b97a2@h11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, > If people would take their blinkers off and stop quoting Clarsonisms, > they may see that a Prius is actually a very good car - for company > car users who do a fair bit of business mileage and next to no private > miles. Have you got the latest model? The last one was very underpowered for open road driving - and no fun at all to drive. Poor steering and grip. The Focus is simply in a different league. Signature*60-year-old, one owner - needs parts, make offer Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. > In article > <499f5fcf-4d59-4557-a5e5-ef48824b97a2@h11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > road driving - and no fun at all to drive. Poor steering and grip. The > Focus is simply in a different league. you are realising we're comparing it with a 1.6d focus? SignatureAnd remember kids, RAID is safe and the UPS never fails, and Cisco routers never develop intermittent faults, and external hard drives never fail with only a month's use, and the DNS is reliable and resilient, and the mailserver is protected from all forms of attack, and the replacement UPS will be reliable as the first one was an unusual failure. >> In article >> <499f5fcf-4d59-4557-a5e5-ef48824b97a2@h11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > you are realising we're comparing it with a 1.6d focus? I've not driven them back to back. I don't expect to see that big a difference in consumption over my usual commute between these two. But my has cupholders, a centre arm rest and the company car tax for me is nothing. So it must be better than either option. Oh and I enjoy driving it too. Ultimately, if somebody enjoys driving their car, that's what it's all about, right? None of this hybrid-waving, lower-tax-waving, my-other-car-is-a-bike bollucks? SignatureThe DervMan www.dervman.com >>> As a supposed car nut you chose a Prius and insist on your employer >>> providing you with a sub 200bhp[1] automatic. Doesn't sound like [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > (Leccy windows in the back are great to get some airflow in the car > before the aircon gets ice-cold on a hot day). I did 250 miles in my 48 year old Rover P5 yesterday (its 48th birthday if you go off the date of registration). No aircon, no electric windows, no PAS, no auto-box, no central locking, no cruise control, no sat nav, no radio, on ancient crossply tyres and with a buggered carb needle so it wouldn't idle properly. At no point did I think "The lack of electric rear windows is really ruining this trip". Fabulous armrests though - the one on the door is height adjustable. Like driving a huge great old leather sofa. I even enjoyed going to the post office to tax it, asked for a receipt just to keep on file :-) > f people would take their blinkers off and stop quoting Clarsonisms, > they may see that a Prius is actually a very good car - for company > car users who do a fair bit of business mileage and next to no private > miles. I posted my honest opinion on the Pious when I drove one a few hundred miles in a day last year. I drove it 100 miles the next day and still thought it was a f.cking disaster for anything other than occasional city driving. Unfortunately, I've driven one again since I posted my thoughts and it was exactly the same. Utter Shite. SignaturePete M - OMF#9 '62 Rover P4 100 '61 Rover P5 3 litre '72 Rover P6 3500 Auto '78 Escort 1300 Sport '96 Volvo 850 T5 CD Estate "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move." > > f people would take their blinkers off and stop quoting Clarsonisms, > > they may see that a Prius is actually a very good car - for company > > car users who do a fair bit of business mileage and next to no private > > miles. > I posted my honest opinion on the Pious when I drove one a few hundred > miles in a day last year. I drove it 100 miles the next day and still > thought it was a f.cking disaster for anything other than occasional > city driving. Unfortunately, I've driven one again since I posted my > thoughts and it was exactly the same. Utter Shite. My thoughts too. And since Steve does such a large mileage I presume most of that isn't stop start town driving. Which is the only thing the Prius is any good at. But far to big for a town only car. Signature*The e-mail of the species is more deadly than the mail * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. Too much missing kit for it to be a decent car for someone in a regional role - no arm-rest, crap stereo and, yes, wind-down rear windows aren't much fun when you can do up to 1k miles in a week. (Leccy windows in the back are great to get some airflow in the car before the aircon gets ice-cold on a hot day). ***************************************************** That was my only real complaint about the Focus - the kit list wasn't good at all with a lot of stuff I'm used to being absent. I like having electric windows all round - it's very handy to wind them all down from the keyfob and let the heat out quickly on a hot day. ***************************************************** If people would take their blinkers off and stop quoting Clarsonisms, they may see that a Prius is actually a very good car - for company car users who do a fair bit of business mileage and next to no private miles. ***************************************************** I don't dispute that at all. I've sat in a cow-orker's Pious and it's certainly a nice place to be than a mid-spec Focus, and on financial grounds it makes a good case. Plus if you aren't paying for fuel it doesn't really matter that it won't do the claimed figures. The Focus , on the other hand makes a much better private buy as you can get huge discounts from the aritificially high list prices and good MPG. I wouldn't want a Focus as a company car and end up paying tax on the stupidly high list price. SignatureAlex "I laugh in the face of danger , then I hide until it goes away" On 15 July, 17:02, Douglas Payne <doug...@cheerful.com> wrote: > As a supposed car nut you chose a Prius and insist on your employer > providing you with a sub 200bhp[1] automatic. Doesn't sound like > entertainment to me. IIRC, Steve was supposed to be getting a Prius from day one and only ended up with a Focus initially as a stop gap whilst his employer waited for a Prius to come back into the fleet for him to have, and that he was told he'd be getting a Prius with the job when he took it rather than being given a long list of cars to choose from and him then opting for a Prius by choice. <Cue a long list of 'I wouldn't work for someone who didn't allow me to pick from a long list of cars' type comments> ***************************************** What about the "I wouldn't work for someone who made me have a Prius" post? SignatureAlex "I laugh in the face of danger , then I hide until it goes away" > >>> However drive a Focus properly and it's a smile-on-you-face > >>> experience. Go into a corner faster than you ever thought was [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Mike P Doing this: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?daddr=Llandovery,+Dyfed,+UK&geocode=Cei3G5dZAms0Fb pdGQMdMR7G_w&dirflg=&saddr=Nelson&f=d&hl=en&sll=52.000947,-3.793373&sspn=0.11434 9,0.249252&ie=UTF8&z=10 And coming out with an average of over 60mph. Allegedly, your honour. > >>> However drive a Focus properly and it's a smile-on-you-face > >>> experience. Go into a corner faster than you ever thought was [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Just out of interest, what sort of speeds do people here consider > "pushing on"?. It might help make sense of this post. I'll rephrase 'pushing on' to a more relevant and clear 'ploughing on'. In the context of the Focus I had the use of, this equated into the car ignoring the fact I'd asked it nicely to go round a right hander whilst maintaining a 'brisk pace', and it decided to ignore me until I backed the power off by quite a bit. The Passat on the other hand regularly took that bend more quickly and without letting go at the front end. -- JackH > >> However drive a Focus properly and it's a smile-on-you-face experience. > >> Go into a corner faster than you ever thought was possible, expecting [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Pushing on in a Passat TDI is a horrible experience. Not in my experience. Like I seem to remember saying in here many times before, I found my TDI Sport bloody good in this respect. > They grip quite impressively, meanwhile the smile you get from driving a > good handling car is wiped from your face. Mine handled fine, both on the road and round a track. Plenty of tyre squealing round the track, but then I pushed it *really* hard and was managing to get it round bends just as quickly as caged up Saxo VTS's etc. Unlike the Focus I tried (on the road), it didn't plough on at all. Bumps mid bend at full stretch didn't upset it at all, either. (1) The main fault I found with it on the track was that a couple of times when I really did push it to its limits into a particularly tight bend, I found the front end bobbing a little under full on braking. In the whole time I owned that Passat, it never broke free at the rear end, and believe me, I pushed it bloody hard enough times to have found out if it was likely to do so or not. :-) (1) Anyone who has ever driven Lydden circuit should be fully familiar with the big ridge you hit mid bend on 'Chessons Drift'. -- JackH |
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