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Car Forum / UK Car Forums / General Car Topics (UK group) / August 2004

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Renault Scenic

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Jim Walsh - 31 Aug 2004 13:20 GMT
Just wondering if anyone else here has an opinion on these cars? Hired
one on holiday (a 20K miles example) a few things really pissed me off
(and the other drivers in my group).

Firstly, there is the handbrake- a lever on the dash not dissimilar to a
choke control, that operates as a binary switch. No gradual application
or release-just on or off (the "off" being controlled automatically when
the clutch starts to bite). Hill starts on steep inclines were almost
impossible. In a regular car, the usual routine is to gradually let out
the clutch whilst maintaining revs and slowly releasing the handbrake,
loading the engine progressively and in a predictable manner. In the
Scenic, as the clutch bites, the handbrake is released completely in an
instant and the engine stalls. It wasn't just me- the other drivers in
my group and also other people I spoke to who hired these things had the
same problem. Why would Renault fit such a crazy feature and how is it
an improvement over the infinitely variable manual handbrake control
that is fitted to most cars?

Secondly, there's the digital speedo- I thought these went out with the
talking Maestro. What a bloody idiotic way to display the information.
Dial speedos are the most appropriate (and widely accepted as such)
because a simple glance allows the diver to gauge speed by the position
of the needle without having to actually read the numbers.

Thirdly there's the headlight controls- fairly conventional in design (a
stalk-based on/ off with rotation and dip/full with  backward
deflection. However, the torque required to rotate the on/off control is
very low, meaning that when pulling the stalk to flip between full and
dipped beam, it is all too easy to turn the lights off completely. I
discovered this, in fact, when approaching a nasty bend late at night in
the Alps and got the shock of my life.

Fourth thing is the steering- massively over assisted to the point of
being twitchy and dangerous

Fifth thing is the foot brake- sharp like nothing else I've ever driven
and almost impossible to get used to.

Seemed a pity that a car with such a nice, well designed interior could
be so flawed in other areas.

Regards, Jim.
Questions@quickwatchsales.com - 31 Aug 2004 14:36 GMT
Two words:

"French" & "Engineering".

>Just wondering if anyone else here has an opinion on these cars? Hired
>one on holiday (a 20K miles example) a few things really pissed me off
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>
>Regards, Jim.
Higgins@Work - 31 Aug 2004 14:55 GMT
> Just wondering if anyone else here has an opinion on these cars? Hired
> one on holiday (a 20K miles example) a few things really pissed me off
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> Seemed a pity that a car with such a nice, well designed interior could
> be so flawed in other areas.

I had one earlier this year and didn't have any problems with the handbrake,
you just need to adjust your driving style.

At risk of sounding patronising (and apologies if it does), the whole point
of gradually releasing the clutch is to find the bite point and then
synchronise the clutch and handbrake release. On the Scenic that isn't
necessary, just release the clutch in the same way you would normally and
the handbrake is taken care of.

The footbrake was typically French!

Signature

cheers,
John

Jim Walsh - 31 Aug 2004 15:27 GMT
> > Just wondering if anyone else here has an opinion on these cars? Hired
> > one on holiday (a 20K miles example) a few things really pissed me off
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> > an improvement over the infinitely variable manual handbrake control
> > that is fitted to most cars?

--snip

> I had one earlier this year and didn't have any problems with the handbrake,
> you just need to adjust your driving style.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> cheers,
> John

It isn't simply a case of substituting your driving style; the manner in which
the brake works is fundamentally different from a proper car. As you load up
the clutch there is a point at which the brake is removed suddenly and
completely and this occurs automatically. For level roads or slight inclines it
presents no problem, but with a full load on a steep incline, the whole
backwards force of the car is dumped on the engine in an instant. Since this
occurs at a moment not of your choosing, it is very hard not to stall under
such circumstances. The system removes a whole dimension of control over the
car that I (and I'm sure, other drivers) attach some importance to.

Regards, Jim.
Scott Williamson - 31 Aug 2004 16:30 GMT
> It isn't simply a case of substituting your driving style; the manner in which
> the brake works is fundamentally different from a proper car. As you load up
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> such circumstances. The system removes a whole dimension of control over the
> car that I (and I'm sure, other drivers) attach some importance to.

I hired one in Spain over the summer, and to my embarassment I didn't
even find out that the handbrake releases automatically. The agent doing
the handover didn't tell me.

Since I obviously didn't expect it to release itself, I fiddled around
with the handle until I found that if you pull the outer bit and press
the inner bit, it releases. Still a binary on/off but at least at a time
of your chosing, and you can catch it with the clutch.

I don't remember having to do any major hill starts though.

Now kicking myself I didn't discover the automatic release function.
Higgins@Work - 31 Aug 2004 17:14 GMT
>>> Just wondering if anyone else here has an opinion on these cars?
>>> Hired one on holiday (a 20K miles example) a few things really
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>
> Regards, Jim.

But that's the whole point, there's no need to load up the clutch, just
release it and go.

In my case, carrying a family of four and luggage to match, I'd say the load
was substantial and there was no problem once I recognised that it was not a
conventional handbrake and conventional hillstarts don't apply.

However, YMMV and I don't think I would buy one that was out of warranty.
Way too complex for my liking.

Signature

cheers,
John

Adrian - 31 Aug 2004 17:42 GMT
>>> The footbrake was typically French!

Excellent! It's as good as Citroen brakes used to be before they started
pissing around with them to make them feel as 'orribly squishy as all the
other cars for sheep?

>Way too complex for my liking.

Is it any worse than anything else modern? Electric handbrakes aren't
*that* new - didn't the S-type have it at launch 5/6 years ago?
Higgins@Work - 31 Aug 2004 18:01 GMT
>>>> The footbrake was typically French!
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Is it any worse than anything else modern? Electric handbrakes aren't
> *that* new - didn't the S-type have it at launch 5/6 years ago?

But that wasn't French <shudder>

It wasn't just that, it was the whole keyless entry and startup, automatic
lights, wipers and just about everything else.
I generally drive old SAABs in the UK so all these gadgets worry me ;-)

Signature

cheers,
John

Adrian - 31 Aug 2004 18:24 GMT
>>> Way too complex for my liking.

>> Is it any worse than anything else modern? Electric handbrakes aren't
>> *that* new - didn't the S-type have it at launch 5/6 years ago?

> But that wasn't French <shudder>

Whereas English/American electrics have a *flawless* reputation...?

> It wasn't just that, it was the whole keyless entry and startup,
> automatic lights, wipers and just about everything else.

Again - hardly unusual in anything released in the last few years.

What cracks me up is the tendency to flag a "start button" as being
something really modern, flash and sporty - One of my fleet of 2cvs has one  
(and keyless start) after the ignition switch died and I couldn't be
bothered to fix it...

> I generally drive old SAABs in the UK so all these gadgets worry me

<grin> - I took an E-reg 900 across the Sahara at Xmas - I know *exactly*
what you mean... Bomb-proof...
 
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