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Car Forum / UK Car Forums / General Car Topics (UK group) / July 2005Citroen C4 Coupe 2L VTS HDi
Hi all, Just recently got myself a Citrone C4 2L VTS Hdi Coupe. For anyone thinking of buying one, just a few points I have noticed. Plus Points - One of the nicest cars in the £15K price point. - Very powerful for overtaking - Best car out of the range for performance/mileage - Very good looking car - Very spaceous - Diesel engine is quiet. Neutral Points - Not sure I like the way the windscreen wipers work - they both start from the side pointing in. Also the rear wiper seems a little short. Minus Points - 5 CD autochanger is poor. It isn't bump proof, very slow to change CDs and is temperamental on whether it likes recorded CDs. (The normal CD player that you get as standard in addition to the 5 CD autochanger is very good though). - Blind spots in rear view - you need to check whether you can live with them. I think that the horizontal blind spot is okay as it shields you against the headlights of the car behind but at the same time, because you block out the car a bit, its hard to spot when there's a police car behind you. - The car (and this may be all diesels) judders when sitting waiting for the lights to turn etc. AMO > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Plus Points > - One of the nicest cars in the £15K price point. *cough* No, I don't think so. Looking on Autotrader there are some much nicer pieces of kit available for well under £15,000. > - Very powerful for overtaking > - Best car out of the range for performance/mileage > - Very good looking car Ewwww ugly ugly ugly. But it's also down to personal opinion so we can discount this. > - Very spaceous You've tried the Focus then? > - Diesel engine is quiet. That's the best part about the C4. Just needs a better home. >:-/  SignatureThe DervMan www.dervman.com >> Plus Points >> - One of the nicest cars in the £15K price point. > > *cough* No, I don't think so. Looking on Autotrader there are some much > nicer pieces of kit available for well under £15,000. We are talking similar type sportish coupe small-medium new cars here. Which others would you consider in the same price bracket? ;0) Remember, this is the top of the range C4 Coupe. AMO > >> Plus Points > >> - One of the nicest cars in the £15K price point. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > We are talking similar type sportish coupe small-medium new cars here. It's not really a coupe, though. It's just a 3 door hatch. SignatureSteve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # >> We are talking similar type sportish coupe small-medium new cars here. > > It's not really a coupe, though. It's just a 3 door hatch. True, but true coupe sports cars don't come in diesel. You also have to compromise a lot. ;0) AMO > >> We are talking similar type sportish coupe small-medium new cars here. > > > > It's not really a coupe, though. It's just a 3 door hatch. > > True, but true coupe sports cars don't come in diesel. You also have to > compromise a lot. ;0) Alfa GT JTD. SignatureSteve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # >> >> We are talking similar type sportish coupe small-medium new cars here. >> > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Alfa GT JTD. The Alfa GT is £3-4K more expensive after negotiated discount. Besides, what put me off these cars is that I only know two people that have Alfa Romeo's and both have had constant trouble with them. AMO >>> >> We are talking similar type sportish coupe small-medium new cars >>> >> here. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > what put me off these cars is that I only know two people that have Alfa > Romeo's and both have had constant trouble with them. The same can sadly be said about new Citroens. Anyway, the GTV is: * a proper coupe. * looks superb. * has a better diesel engine. * won't depreciate as quickly as the Citroen. * doesn't cost the French tax payer money (that's a bad point). And finally. * isn't French. I would much rather spend the extra and get the GTV, if I were buying new. People aspire for an Alfa Romeo. Only the very truly madly strange aspire for a Citroen. SignatureThe DervMan www.dervman.com > > The Alfa GT is £3-4K more expensive after negotiated discount. Besides, > > what put me off these cars is that I only know two people that have Alfa [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > People aspire for an Alfa Romeo. Only the very truly madly strange aspire > for a Citroen. Please note I said 'GT' not 'GTV'. However, much of the above still applies, probably even more so. SignatureSteve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # >> > The Alfa GT is £3-4K more expensive after negotiated discount. >> > Besides, [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > However, much of the above still applies, probably even more so. *cough splutter cough* The new funky sexy bodied one, not the older one... SignatureThe DervMan www.dervman.com > >> I would much rather spend the extra and get the GTV, if I were buying > >> new. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > The new funky sexy bodied one, not the older one... Which one are we talking about here...... This one: http://www.italiancar.com.au/images/AlfaGT_140_lg.jpg or this one: http://dxbec.ihep.su/~solo/alfa/pics/alfagtv96.jpg The latter has never been sold as a diesel, so I'm assuming the former. SignatureSteve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # >> The new funky sexy bodied one, not the older one... > Which one are we talking about here...... > > This one: > http://www.italiancar.com.au/images/AlfaGT_140_lg.jpg The one that you very rarely see rear photos of, because from the wrong angle the sheer bulk of the rear wings and the fact they forgot to fit any tail lights to it just looks... awkward. Saw a 90s GTV v6 TB in my local auto-electrician the other day. Oooh, missus. 3.0 v6 twin turbo. Don't mind if I do! > >> The new funky sexy bodied one, not the older one... > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Saw a 90s GTV v6 TB in my local auto-electrician the other day. Oooh, > missus. 3.0 v6 twin turbo. Don't mind if I do! 2lt, ISTR. Italian tax-dodge. SignatureSteve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # >> Saw a 90s GTV v6 TB in my local auto-electrician the other day. Oooh, >> missus. 3.0 v6 twin turbo. Don't mind if I do! > 2lt, ISTR. Italian tax-dodge. It said 3.0 Turbo on the engine... A google suggests there was a 2.0, but there was a 3.0, too... http://www.dooyoo.es/archivos-motor/alfa-gtv-3-0-v6-tb/ > >> Saw a 90s GTV v6 TB in my local auto-electrician the other day. Oooh, > >> missus. 3.0 v6 twin turbo. Don't mind if I do! [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > http://www.dooyoo.es/archivos-motor/alfa-gtv-3-0-v6-tb/ Jesus. That's a bit of a monster. Didn't know there was one of those. There was a LHD 2lt V6 Turbo on ebay the other week, only made £2k, I *really* wanted that. SignatureSteve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # > > >> I would much rather spend the extra and get the GTV, if I were buying > > >> new. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > http://dxbec.ihep.su/~solo/alfa/pics/alfagtv96.jpg I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but IMO Alfa make some of the ugliest cars I've ever seen. Those in the links prove it. :-) Mike. > > Which one are we talking about here...... > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but IMO Alfa make some of the > ugliest cars I've ever seen. Those in the links prove it. :-) And you, sir, have no taste. Out of interest, what do you drive? SignatureSteve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # > > > Which one are we talking about here...... > > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > And you, sir, have no taste. I know. My son likes Alfas as well. I prefer cars with smooth balanced lines. Styling with bodywork lines that look purposefull rather than being put there for purely cosmetic reasons. Alfas and a few other cars have that jacked up look as well. Low at the front and high at the back. A style I do not like at all. > Out of interest, what do you drive? Late BMW E34 525i saloon, and a ST185 Toyota Celica GT4 turbo coupe. Plus an SD1 Vitesse, when I get round to doing some minor repairs. Exhaust etc. All cars with nice clean unfussy styling IMO. Mike. > > Out of interest, what do you drive? > > Late BMW E34 525i saloon Nice engine, but totally uninspired styling. >, and a ST185 Toyota Celica GT4 turbo coupe. OK if you like mundane looking Jap coupes. > Plus an SD1 Vitesse, when I get round to doing some minor repairs. Exhaust > etc. Poor man's Daytona. > All cars with nice clean unfussy styling IMO. You mean 'uninspired, dated styling'. HTH. SignatureSteve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # > > > Out of interest, what do you drive? > > > > Late BMW E34 525i saloon > > Nice engine, but totally uninspired styling. Traditional, with clean lines. The way I like em. > >, and a ST185 Toyota Celica GT4 turbo coupe. > > OK if you like mundane looking Jap coupes. Maybe, if compared to other jap coupes, but not with most of the european competition. > > Plus an SD1 Vitesse, when I get round to doing some minor repairs. Exhaust > > etc. > > Poor man's Daytona. Nah. The Vitesse is a full 4 seater fastback with a decent sized boot. The Daytona is a low 2+2 coupe. They're not really comparable at all. > > All cars with nice clean unfussy styling IMO. > > You mean 'uninspired, dated styling'. If you like. But then I'm not interested in styling just to be up to date. Much of todays styling looks contrived, and doesn't make a car any more attractive IMO. Mike. > People aspire for an Alfa Romeo. I've had two. A widebody 155 and a v6 75. > Only the very truly madly strange aspire for a Citroen. <waves> I've got seven. Currently. > > People aspire for an Alfa Romeo. > > I've had two. A widebody 155 and a v6 75. Are the widebody's really *that* good? - I quite liked my narrowbody, it gripped like a grippy thing, but rolled like a 2CV. Only sold it after it gave me a scare due to corroded brake pipes letting go when I planted my foot at 70-ish mph. I should be getting a move to work closer to home before the end of the year, and my celebtratory gift for escaping Hereford is to flog the Panzerwagen and buy myself an Alfa..... the only restriction being is that it'll have to cost the same or less than I flog the Passat for. This means widebody 155 (probably a TSpark) or 164 (V6-24v, obviously). > > Only the very truly madly strange aspire for a Citroen. > > <waves> I've got seven. Currently. Heh. I do fancy an XM, but I'm not quite *that* insane. Yet. SignatureSteve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # >> > People aspire for an Alfa Romeo. >> I've had two. A widebody 155 and a v6 75. > Are the widebody's really *that* good? I never drove a narrowbody. > I quite liked my narrowbody, it gripped like a grippy thing, but rolled > like a 2CV. Mine was a brand spankin' P-reg 1.8 16v in metallic purple. Loved it. "Body roll" certainly wasn't anything it could be accused of - in fact, I think they forgot to fit the suspension travel at the factory. They must have been having an off-day, because they forgot the build quality, too... In the c.6mo/15k miles before I changed jobs and had to hand it back, the back box sheared and fell off, the bonnet release fell off, and the alarm developed severe paranoia. But I *adored* it. >> > Only the very truly madly strange aspire for a Citroen. >> <waves> I've got seven. Currently. > Heh. I do fancy an XM, but I'm not quite *that* insane. Yet. Heh. My XM is my sensible car. I've had it 5yrs - Turbo petrol auto, '96/N - and it's been rather well behaved, but I do have that essential accompaniment to Cit ownership, a VERY good specialist mechanic. > >> > People aspire for an Alfa Romeo. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Mine was a brand spankin' P-reg 1.8 16v in metallic purple. Nice colour, wrong engine ;-) 2lt TSpark is the only one, really. The V6 is too heavy and the 1.8 doesn't have the balancer shaft. > Loved it. "Body > roll" certainly wasn't anything it could be accused of - in fact, I think > they forgot to fit the suspension travel at the factory. Sounds like it was a 'sportspack' to me... > They must have > been having an off-day, because they forgot the build quality, too... In > the c.6mo/15k miles before I changed jobs and had to hand it back, the back > box sheared and fell off, the bonnet release fell off, and the alarm > developed severe paranoia. But I *adored* it. Argh! You're only tempting me now. *If* I can find a good one. I'd almost certainly pay £2k for a really tidy, historied P/R plate 2lt TSpark. > >> > Only the very truly madly strange aspire for a Citroen. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > - and it's been rather well behaved, but I do have that essential > accompaniment to Cit ownership, a VERY good specialist mechanic. Ahhh, I get the feeling those are hard to find in the depths of the South Wales valleys. Turbo Petrol appeals... same engine as the CX GTI Turbo? - but not with that gearbox. SignatureSteve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # >> Mine was a brand spankin' P-reg 1.8 16v in metallic purple. > Nice colour, wrong engine ;-) > 2lt TSpark is the only one, really. The V6 is too heavy and the 1.8 > doesn't have the balancer shaft. Since it was down to a choice between the 1.8 155 or a 1.8 A4... >> Loved it. "Body >> roll" certainly wasn't anything it could be accused of - in fact, I >> think they forgot to fit the suspension travel at the factory. > Sounds like it was a 'sportspack' to me... Nope... But don't forget I'm used to Cits... >> Heh. My XM is my sensible car. I've had it 5yrs - Turbo petrol auto, >> '96/N - and it's been rather well behaved, but I do have that >> essential accompaniment to Cit ownership, a VERY good specialist >> mechanic. > Ahhh, I get the feeling those are hard to find in the depths of the > South Wales valleys. I'm sure we can find you one... > Turbo Petrol appeals... same engine as the CX GTI Turbo? - but not > with that gearbox. No. It's the usual modern PSA 8v 2.0 (think Xantia, 406 - XU? TU? I dunno), but with a turbo & intercooler. 150bhp, 180lb/ft - a lot of people think it's a low pressure, but it isn't - the boost is managed to give completely flat peak torque over about 2,500rpm, allowing a relatively high CR. Nice mix. The autobox is a decent modern (ZF 4HP18) 4-spd with lock-up. Nice box, but a poor rep for 120k mile death due to poor maintenance - change the fluid with every oil change (only about 1 litre comes out unless you remove the pipes) and it'll be fine (touch wood, mine's on 117k... Erk.) Manual box in an XM does require a certain amount of tap-dancing ability - the handbrake is a foot pedal, a la Merc/merkins. The hydractive suspension is *superb*. Waftysmooth - 20mph+ over speedbumps - but tightens *right* up when you press on. > >> Mine was a brand spankin' P-reg 1.8 16v in metallic purple. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Since it was down to a choice between the 1.8 155 or a 1.8 A4... Heh. That's understandable, then. > >> Loved it. "Body > >> roll" certainly wasn't anything it could be accused of - in fact, I [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > the fluid with every oil change (only about 1 litre comes out unless you > remove the pipes) and it'll be fine (touch wood, mine's on 117k... Erk.) Sounds like a similar sort of engine to the VAG 1.8T, only with less valves. Lovely flat torque curve. If only Alfa could take that lump and tune the induction and exhaust systems to make it sound nice..... > Manual box in an XM does require a certain amount of tap-dancing ability - > the handbrake is a foot pedal, a la Merc/merkins. > > The hydractive suspension is *superb*. Waftysmooth - 20mph+ over speedbumps > - but tightens *right* up when you press on. Hmmmm, not sure I'm mad enough for an XM really, but I do fancy a Xantia Activa. SignatureSteve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # > Sounds like a similar sort of engine to the VAG 1.8T, only with less > valves. Lovely flat torque curve. A *lot* less valves. > Hmmmm, not sure I'm mad enough for an XM really, but I do fancy a > Xantia Activa. Bwahahahahahahah. That's a bit like saying "I don't really like heat, so I'm not going to Spain for a fortnight this summer - I'm going on a walking holiday in the Sahara." The Activa's the same TCT (Turbo Constant Torque) lump as my XM, but squeezed into an engine bay half the size, with the same Hydractive 2 suspension, but with the *added* entertainment of anti-roll bar links that hydraulically change their length to negate bodyroll completely. In fact, we're actually back full circle to the thread topic, because there's a vicious rumour that the C4 "dancing transformer" ad was inspired by somebody seeing an Activa parked at traffic lights trying to decide where "flat and level" was - "This wheel up a bit, no - that one down a bit, no - that one up, no - that one down, no - that one up, no - that one down" Not even *I'M* daft enough for an Activa - and I've got a Mehari with a GSA engine in it. > > Sounds like a similar sort of engine to the VAG 1.8T, only with less > > valves. Lovely flat torque curve. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Bwahahahahahahah. Well, I'm glad someone finds my afliction funny. > That's a bit like saying "I don't really like heat, so I'm not going to > Spain for a fortnight this summer - I'm going on a walking holiday in the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > suspension, but with the *added* entertainment of anti-roll bar links that > hydraulically change their length to negate bodyroll completely. By all accounts they're meant to be really amazing to drive, though. > In fact, we're actually back full circle to the thread topic, because > there's a vicious rumour that the C4 "dancing transformer" ad was inspired > by somebody seeing an Activa parked at traffic lights trying to decide > where "flat and level" was - "This wheel up a bit, no - that one down a > bit, no - that one up, no - that one down, no - that one up, no - that one > down" Heh. > Not even *I'M* daft enough for an Activa - and I've got a Mehari with a GSA > engine in it. You know, I might just have to have one for a few months. I'm sure there's some cheap but still working ones out there. SignatureSteve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # >> Not even *I'M* daft enough for an Activa > You know, I might just have to have one for a few months. I'm sure > there's some cheap but still working ones out there. Indeed. A mate has one (on the IoM) - paid about £500 for it, complete with a grand's worth of 18" five spoke 306 alloys on it... Rather incredible, apparently. In a "If it DOES finally let go, you do NOT want to be in it" way. >>>Sounds like a similar sort of engine to the VAG 1.8T, only with less >>>valves. Lovely flat torque curve. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Well, I'm glad someone finds my afliction funny. It's not just you. I *WILL* have an activa at some point. I know it'll mug me and leave me penniless, but if it survives just one of my regular trips to south wales it'll be worth it :-D > They must have been having an off-day, > because they forgot the build quality Ok, I'll bite. How does forgetting about build quality classify as an 'off day' at the Alfa Romeo factory ? SignatureLordy.UK >> They must have been having an off-day, because they forgot the build >> quality > Ok, I'll bite. > > How does forgetting about build quality classify as an 'off day' at the > Alfa Romeo factory ? No, no, you misunderstand. That's *ALL* that went wrong. They must have forgotten the <sarcasm>"build quality"</sarcasm>. >> They must have been having an off-day, >> because they forgot the build quality [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > How does forgetting about build quality classify as an 'off day' at the > Alfa Romeo factory ? That's not biting - that's throwing out a big fat juicy bait :-) Peter > Only the very truly madly strange aspire for a Citroen. Hooray! cheers, clive >> Only the very truly madly strange aspire for a Citroen. > > Hooray! Heh - I should really add the words "new" in there. I always liked the Xantia. The C5 didn't do it for me. The ZX was a nice machine. The rest... leave me cold. Except the later AX 1.4 diesel. :) SignatureThe DervMan www.dervman.com > The ZX was a nice machine. You're a sick man. The ZX is bland. It's unparkable without power steering, and dangerously twitchy at speed with it. It's biggest plus points are that it's indestructible and - especially as a 1.9(non-T)D - cheaper than walking. >> The ZX was a nice machine. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > a > 1.9(non-T)D - cheaper than walking. I thought that the ZX was supposed handle pretty well, due to passive rear steer, and sharing a chassis with the well-set-up Pug 306??? Peter >>> The ZX was a nice machine. >> You're a sick man. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> It's biggest plus points are that it's indestructible and - >> especially as a 1.9(non-T)D - cheaper than walking. > I thought that the ZX was supposed handle pretty well, due to passive > rear steer, and sharing a chassis with the well-set-up Pug 306??? Yep, it is - and it's also lighter than the 306. I s'pose I could be kind to the ZX - "Less crap than an Ashtray or Escrote" >> The ZX was a nice machine. > > You're a sick man. > > The ZX is bland. It's unparkable without power steering, and dangerously > twitchy at speed with it. "At speed." Heh. > It's biggest plus points are that it's indestructible and - especially as > a > 1.9(non-T)D - cheaper than walking. *ding!* SignatureThe DervMan www.dervman.com > I always liked the Xantia. The C5 didn't do it for me. The ZX was a nice > machine. The rest... leave me cold. Except the later AX 1.4 diesel. :) Freak. :-) Peter In news:bScDe.3006$yH4.1438@newsfe2-win.ntli.net, DervMan <dervman@ntlworld.com> decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows >>> Only the very truly madly strange aspire for a Citroen. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > nice machine. The rest... leave me cold. Except the later AX 1.4 > diesel. :) I *really* like Xantias. I've driven hundreds of them (no exaggeration that), and I've liked all of 'em. Best one I ever drove was a black 3.0 V6 Activa with *all* the toys. Black leather electric Recaros, big stereo, climate etc. I'd have been very tempted to buy that, but it was new and had a list price of something totally stupid once you priced up all the toys. Something stupid being somewhere around £30k. Doubt I'll ever find another one like it though, there can't be many mad bastards who bought a V6 Activa, never mind bought 'em and specced 'em upto the hilt. SignaturePete M Range Rover Vogue SE, Ford Capri (ressurection stalling) Porsche 911 3.2 (For Sale) COSOC #5 Scouse Git extraordinaire. Liverpool, Great Britain > In news:bScDe.3006$yH4.1438@newsfe2-win.ntli.net, > DervMan <dervman@ntlworld.com> decided to enlighten our sheltered souls [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > bastards who bought a V6 Activa, never mind bought 'em and specced 'em > upto the hilt. No, I think they sold seven. :-/ I understood that the only Activa used the light pressure 2.0 turbo...? SignatureThe DervMan www.dervman.com >> I *really* like Xantias. >> Best one I ever drove was a black 3.0 V6 Activa with *all* the toys. LHD? >> Doubt I'll ever find another one like it though, there can't be many >> mad bastards who bought a V6 Activa, never mind bought 'em and >> specced 'em upto the hilt. > No, I think they sold seven. :-/ Not even seven v6s in the UK - I didn't think. > I understood that the only Activa used the light pressure 2.0 > turbo...? In the UK, yes. Cit decided it wouldn't all fit in on RHD cars. There's a garage in Welwyn Garden City who *really* like v6 Xants, though - they're the UK specialist for them, and have built several "Eh?" combos, Activas and estates. (BTW - the TCT isn't a low-pressure) In news:Xns96994D4D63FF6adrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170, Adrian <toomany2cvs@gmail.com> decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows >>> I *really* like Xantias. > >>> Best one I ever drove was a black 3.0 V6 Activa with *all* the toys. > > LHD? Yup, Italian registered, which makes it even more freakish when you consider their tax laws. Probably the only one in Italy. SignaturePete M Range Rover Vogue SE, Ford Capri (ressurection stalling) Porsche 911 3.2 (For Sale) COSOC #5 Scouse Git extraordinaire. Liverpool, Great Britain > In news:Xns96994D4D63FF6adrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170, > Adrian <toomany2cvs@gmail.com> decided to enlighten our sheltered souls [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Yup, Italian registered, which makes it even more freakish when you > consider their tax laws. Probably the only one in Italy. Wellll.... When we were over there, we saw stacks of sub 1.0 litre cars. Quite a few up to 2.0 litres. Then very little between the 2.0 machines to the supercars. :) SignatureThe DervMan www.dervman.com > I *really* like Xantias. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > bastards who bought a V6 Activa, never mind bought 'em and specced 'em > upto the hilt. There's the Exclusive, which has pretty much got all that kit, I think. I know the Exclusive's got some sort of better-than-the-norm suspension setup (like the VSX - is the Activa even better and more complex than that? Peter > There's the Exclusive, which has pretty much got all that kit, I > think. I know the Exclusive's got some sort of better-than-the-norm > suspension setup (like the VSX - is the Activa even better and more > complex than that? Exclusive and VSX had Hydractive 2, same as the XM (earlier XMs had Hyperactive 1, slightly less sophisticated). The Activa was a development of Hippo2, with the active anti-roll achieved through a greater capacity pump and variable-length hydraulic roll bar droplinks - as the car rolls, one side shortens the other lengthens to bring it back to "level". <http://www.citroencarclub.org.uk/PostNuke/index.phpmodule=ContentExpress&f unc=display&ceid=40&meid=93> or http://snipurl.com/gdf0 >>> Plus Points >>> - One of the nicest cars in the £15K price point. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Which others would you consider in the same price bracket? ;0) Remember, > this is the top of the range C4 Coupe. I cannot consider anything new with a Citroen badge as good value and since I subscribe value as one of the legs of being "nice," I cannot believe that a new three door Citroen hatchback (coupe, heh, noooooo) as nice. Come back in three years when it's worth £3,000 and it might be nicer. Top of the range Citroens just depreciate quicker. SignatureThe DervMan www.dervman.com > Top of the range Citroens just depreciate quicker. <looks, fondly, out of window at XM> Yep. Good, innit? If that was a 5-series or E-class, it'd probably be worth now what I paid for the XM five years ago. £26k new. I paid £4.5k for it at 4 years old - and that was a little high, because it was exactly the (rare) spec I wanted. It works for me. <waits a few years for a cheap C6> >> Top of the range Citroens just depreciate quicker. > > <looks, fondly, out of window at XM> > Yep. Good, innit? It is. > If that was a 5-series or E-class, it'd probably be worth now what I paid > for the XM five years ago. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > It works for me. > <waits a few years for a cheap C6> Therein is the beauty - really we should applaud people who buy new, high specification Citroens! :) SignatureThe DervMan www.dervman.com > Therein is the beauty - really we should applaud people who buy new, > high specification Citroens! :) Indeed. And with the C6 list prices being higher than the equivalent 5- series, E-class, S-type, they'll certainly need applauding... It's not fair. At this rate, they won't sell one. How can I buy a cheap used C6 if they don't sell any? >> Therein is the beauty - really we should applaud people who buy new, >> high specification Citroens! :) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > It's not fair. At this rate, they won't sell one. How can I buy a cheap > used C6 if they don't sell any? Pah, they'll just give massive discounts and cash incentives as usual. Peter >> It's not fair. At this rate, they won't sell one. How can I buy a cheap >> used C6 if they don't sell any? > Pah, they'll just give massive discounts and cash incentives as usual. Won't help the co.car sales, though - the lease prices will be *horrific* on principle, and the co.car tax is based on list price. £28-38k, ffs... >> We are talking similar type sportish coupe small-medium new cars here. >> Which others would you consider in the same price bracket? ;0) Remember, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > believe that a new three door Citroen hatchback (coupe, heh, noooooo) as > nice. Well, I like the compromise between sporty looking with standard car features. Used to drive a Hyundai Coupe. Nice budget sports car. Low centre of gravity - good for turning corners etc. Smooth ride. However, not practical - I prefer a diesel engine for economy even though they only currently exist in non-true coupes. I prefer the fact that people can sit comfortably in the back. Lots of other minor practical things in the car I like. > Come back in three years when it's worth £3,000 and it might be nicer. > Top of the range Citroens just depreciate quicker. > The DervMan > www.dervman.com True, as does most cars. But I buy new and run them into the ground so depreciation doesn't really bother me. I used to buy nearly new, but since the age of the internet, its better to negotiate a very good discount on a new car at the right time of the year than go for a 1 year old car, unless the original owner had a lot of the optional extras installed. I don't go for cars older than that at the moment as I am buying a medium-sized car. I tend to buy 3-4 year old cars to maximise on depreciation if I am buying an executive car like a BMW with longer lasting parts, but not small / medium cars. AMO > I prefer a diesel engine for economy even though they only currently exist > in non-true coupes. Does the 406 coupe not count then? cheers, clive >> I prefer a diesel engine for economy even though they only currently >> exist in non-true coupes. > Does the 406 coupe not count then? Does the 406 coupe currently exist brand new, then? >>> I prefer a diesel engine for economy even though they only currently >>> exist in non-true coupes. > >> Does the 406 coupe not count then? > > Does the 406 coupe currently exist brand new, then? Ah yes. Forgot about that minor detail. cheers, clive >>>> I prefer a diesel engine for economy even though they only currently >>>> exist in non-true coupes. >>> Does the 406 coupe not count then? >> Does the 406 coupe currently exist brand new, then? > Ah yes. Forgot about that minor detail. Of course, there's always the Diseasel versions of the 3-coupe/conv, the CLK coupe/conv, A4 Cabrio. But are they "true coupes"? What IS a "true coupe"? [...] > But are they "true coupes"? What IS a "true coupe"? A "Coupé" is a "Cut" so I guess something has to be cut... A P5 Coupé is a coupé W124 Coupés are coupés, SECs might be. E36 or E46 Coupés are coupés so is the 406 Coupé... There has to be a non-coupé before you can have a coupé. Maybe :) A > A P5 Coupé is a coupé No, a P5B coupe is *gorgeous*. > There has to be a non-coupé before you can have a coupé. So what's a DB, then? > Maybe :) >> A P5 Coupé is a coupé > > No, a P5B coupe is *gorgeous*. True :) >> There has to be a non-coupé before you can have a coupé. > > So what's a DB, then? Proper David Brown DBs, with the standard body, were IIRC described as saloons. A >>> We are talking similar type sportish coupe small-medium new cars here. >>> Which others would you consider in the same price bracket? ;0) [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Well, I like the compromise between sporty looking with standard car > features. Used to drive a Hyundai Coupe. Nice budget sports car. That is a coupe! > Low centre of gravity - good for turning corners etc. Smooth ride. > However, not practical - I prefer a diesel engine for economy even though > they only currently exist in non-true coupes. I prefer the fact that > people can sit comfortably in the back. Lots of other minor practical > things in the car I like. Aye but don't kid yourself that the three door C4 is a coupe other than in name. >> Come back in three years when it's worth £3,000 and it might be nicer. >> Top of the range Citroens just depreciate quicker. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > True, as does most cars. But I buy new and run them into the ground so > depreciation doesn't really bother me. You've already managed to break the Hyundai? > I used to buy nearly new, but since the age of the internet, its better to > negotiate a very good discount on a new car at the right time of the year > than go for a 1 year old car, unless the original owner had a lot of the > optional extras installed. I disagree. We bought our Ka via the Internet and we haggled via the web over the price. He was nine months old when we bought him. > I don't go for cars older than that at the moment as I am buying a > medium-sized car. I tend to buy 3-4 year old cars to maximise on > depreciation if I am buying an executive car like a BMW with longer > lasting parts, but not small / medium cars. How many cars have you run into the ground then? But anyway, surely it's better to buy something that is worth under a monkey (sub £500) then only risk £500, unless you're going to make the C4 last for twenty years...? SignatureThe DervMan www.dervman.com > That is a coupe! ;0) > You've already managed to break the Hyundai? No - drove 5 through the company scheme changing every six months bar the first which I drove for 18 months. They're okay but don't really have that much power - lack of turbo or something. The 5 year warranty is all very well and good, but then you have to service every 10,000 miles. >> I used to buy nearly new, but since the age of the internet, its better >> to negotiate a very good discount on a new car at the right time of the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I disagree. We bought our Ka via the Internet and we haggled via the web > over the price. He was nine months old when we bought him. Fair enough, but when I was looking around for a new car at mid-June when every manufacturer were putting on offer their best prices to hit their 6 month targets, looking at the nearly new range, there wasn't a lot in it. Most dealers have company schemes where employees drive new cars for the first 6-12 months and then the car is sold on as nearly new. Primarily it adds cars to the nearly new market, but also it helps the dealer sell through more cars as they have to meet targets. These nearly new cars are sometimes not worth going for as you're probably saving an extra £1000 or so but with £10K on the clock. > How many cars have you run into the ground then? But anyway, surely it's > better to buy something that is worth under a monkey (sub £500) then only > risk £500, unless you're going to make the C4 last for twenty years...? > The DervMan You're absolutely correct. These days I know a lot of people buying £2K cars and running them into the ground. Older cars in todays terms have a lot of features and are okay to buy. What I am saying is that I buy cars new and whilst I take the hit of depreciation, I don't take the worst of it because I drive the car into the ground. I'll probably keep the Citroen for around 10 years or so and then decide whether to keep it longer of pass it down to a relative. Either way, its unlikely to get sold on. Maybe I'll see things differently in a few years time, but I'm not one for constantly changing my car. AMO >> That is a coupe! > ;0) > >> You've already managed to break the Hyundai? > No - drove 5 through the company scheme changing every six months bar the > first which I drove for 18 months. They're okay but don't really have > that much power - lack of turbo or something. The 5 year warranty is all > very well and good, but then you have to service every 10,000 miles. So you'd prefer your car to have the same engine oil under the bonnet for 20,000 miles?! Ewww no way. Ours has a 10,000 mile service interval. I change the oil and filter every five. >>> I used to buy nearly new, but since the age of the internet, its better >>> to negotiate a very good discount on a new car at the right time of the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > sometimes not worth going for as you're probably saving an extra £1000 or > so but with £10K on the clock. Yes, they will have covered mileage... ...and somebody else will have sorted any of the new car problems and started the running in process. >> How many cars have you run into the ground then? But anyway, surely it's >> better to buy something that is worth under a monkey (sub £500) then only [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > sold on. Maybe I'll see things differently in a few years time, but I'm > not one for constantly changing my car. SignatureThe DervMan www.dervman.com |
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