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Car Forum / UK Car Forums / General Car Topics (UK group) / August 2005

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Remote control central locking systems.

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Grumps - 30 Aug 2005 13:36 GMT
I have a 206 van (2001) with remote control central locking. The range of
the transmitter seemed to be quite good, at least 15m. Then, one day, I
noticed that the range was very short at home, but still ok when I get to
work. I didn't really think anything of it.
Now I have another car (BMW 530d, 1999) which seems to have the same
problem; low range at home (i.e. the key needs to be right by the car's
window for it to work) but ok elsewhere (except Carrefour in Cherbourg!).
And I have another car (BMW 525tds 1993) which has a decent range
everywhere.
So the question is what can cause this apparent localised interference to
'modern' systems, but not my older car? Are there known interference
problems of this type?
I did switch off the mains to my house suspecting that there was something
here that could cause a problem, but it's not me. I'm going to plot the
range at various places araound where I live. This is beginning to bug me
now.
D - 30 Aug 2005 14:37 GMT
> I have a 206 van (2001) with remote control central locking. The range of
> the transmitter seemed to be quite good, at least 15m. Then, one day, I
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> range at various places araound where I live. This is beginning to bug me
> now.

My parents complain of the same thing when they come round my house
(Volvo S80). I remember reading an article that blamed 3G phone masts
for this affecting a whole village somewhere in England, but the telcos
denied it.
Andrewr At Work - 30 Aug 2005 14:41 GMT
<SNIP, shortened key-fob ranges>

> I remember reading an article that blamed 3G phone masts
> for this affecting a whole village somewhere in England, but the telcos
> denied it.

ISTR seeing something on telly years ago that blamed microwave
transmitters, or something similar.
Neil - 30 Aug 2005 18:33 GMT
http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/lucy_pargeter
> > I have a 206 van (2001) with remote control central locking. The range of
> > the transmitter seemed to be quite good, at least 15m. Then, one day, I
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> for this affecting a whole village somewhere in England, but the telcos
> denied it.

not surprised 3g telcos denied it. their freq is too high.

TETRA, that's the cause, tx's around 440mhz.

car fobs work between 418-435mhz. The tetra broadbands the car rx'er. ie
makes it deaf, cuz the piddly 1mwatt from keys finds it hard to get over the
top of 50watts tetra.
Matthew Haigh - 30 Aug 2005 15:20 GMT
> So the question is what can cause this apparent localised interference to
> 'modern' systems, but not my older car? Are there known interference
> problems of this type?

The problem is that newer cars tend to have remotes working on
433.92MHz. This is an unprotected frequency used by many remote link
devices (e.g. wireless thermometers for clocks/weather units that show
inside and outside temperature), and also by relatively high power users
such as amateur radio voice repeaters and the MoD (some bright spark
thought it was a good idea to allow low power telemetry stuff like this
in the middle of the long standing 70cm (430-440MHz) amateur radio band,
and not even put it to one side of the band but use a frequency in the
middle of the relatively heavily used voice repeater section!).

Worse than that, the receivers for car remotes are typically cheap and
nasty pieces of work, so a local high power transmission that isn't
particularly close in frequency can cause desensitisation of the
receiver (imagine a friend trying to talk to you whilst someone standing
next to him is shouting).

Possibly the easiest way to find out what is causing the interference is
to find a local radio amateur with some 70cm equipment, who should be
able to help trace where it is coming from. If it is a constant problem,
I'd think it is more likely to be some telemetry device (like the
weather station things or a wireless burglar alarm) than an amateur
repeater, as the repeaters typically aren't in use 24 hours a day (they
only transmit when people are talking through them). If you are close to
a commercial premises, they may have something in use that is causing
the problem.

Matt
Neil - 30 Aug 2005 18:38 GMT
> > So the question is what can cause this apparent localised interference to
> > 'modern' systems, but not my older car? Are there known interference
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> Matt

yes, as per my short post, fully agree with the above.

OP, have you put your postcode into
http://www.sitefinder.radio.gov.uk/frame_map.htm

shows nearby tx sites and limited info.

ie...

     Name of Operator
    MMO2

     Operator Site Ref.
    WMI105F

     Height of Antenna
    16.5 Metres

     Frequency Range
    400 MHz

     Transmitter Power
    21 dBW

     Maximum licensed power
    25 dBW

     Type of Transmission
    TETRA

--
--
Kind Regards
Neil B
Orange CS - +447837614753
Live Life in the Fast Lane - www.blueyonder.co.uk
http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/lucy_pargeter
Grumps - 30 Aug 2005 22:07 GMT
> > > So the question is what can cause this apparent localised interference
> to
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> shows nearby tx sites and limited info.

Thanks. V.useful.
There is a base station about 500m away. It's an Orange GSM one. I think
it's been there for ages though.
Conor - 30 Aug 2005 21:13 GMT
> So the question is what can cause this apparent localised interference to
> 'modern' systems, but not my older car? Are there known interference
> problems of this type?

Yup - its called an open public frequency. That means you get to share
it with cordless phones, baby monitors, house alarms etc etc.

Signature

Conor

"You're not married, you haven't got a girlfriend and you've never seen
Star Trek? Good Lord!" - Patrick Stewart, Extras.

Guy Smith - 31 Aug 2005 10:45 GMT
You may think I am taking the piss but try this: Facing the car, stick the
key in your ear, open your mouth and press the lock/unlock button. Your head
concentrates and directs the signal at the car.

Originally I assumed I was a freak until I saw Jeremy Clarkson do it as
well! Clarkson - I suppose we could all be freaks together??!!

The other option is to find where the receiver is (usually middle of the
windscreen) and put the key near it and press.
 
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