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Car Forum / UK Car Forums / General Car Topics (UK group) / October 2005used car from dealer - number of keepers?
A friend of mine has put down a deposit of 200 gbp on a car from a dealer, and was informed that it had two previous owners (it was new in 1999). However, she got one of those AA reports on the history of the car, and it shows 4 previous keepers, all spaced at least a few months apart (it shows the dates of changes in keepers, but not the names of the keepers). The report doesn't seem to show any thing else wrong. I have two questions - If the car had been sold by dealers previously is it possible that the other two keepers shown are in fact the dealers involved? Also, if it turns out the latest dealer is not being honest about the number of previous owners, would she be entitled to her deposit back? She was only looking for a car with a maximum of two previous owners. Thanks. >She was only looking for a car with a maximum of two previous owners. Why?  SignatureRichard Faulkner >>She was only looking for a car with a maximum of two previous owners. > >Why? Why not?, it's called freedom of choice. Mike SignatureMichael Swift We do not regard Englishmen as foreigners. Kirkheaton We look on them only as rather mad Norwegians. Yorkshire Halvard Lange >>>She was only looking for a car with a maximum of two previous owners. >> >>Why? > > Why not?, it's called freedom of choice. Quite, but I don't think the original poster was (yet) saying that it was foolish to restrict the number of previous keepers. I guess it's like wanting a woman with only two previous lovers or something? SignatureThe DervMan www.dervman.com > I guess it's like wanting a woman with only two previous lovers or > something? I prefer my women with no previous owners, and preferably delivery miles only. SignatureCarl Robson Car PC Build starts again. http://smallr.com/rz Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com > In article <JK_7f.29699$S_1opportunity5-win.ntli.net>, > dervman@ntlworld.com says... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I prefer my women with no previous owners, and preferably delivery miles > only. Perhaps some form of human HPI would be a business opportunity? :-) Chris SignatureRemove prejudice to reply. >>>She was only looking for a car with a maximum of two previous owners. >> >>Why? > >Why not?, it's called freedom of choice. Very constructive!! It's a genuine question, the answer to which might help someone to assist the OP. SignatureRichard Faulkner >>>> She was only looking for a car with a maximum of two previous owners. >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > It's a genuine question, the answer to which might help someone to > assist the OP. How? If I knew her reason, I would have posted it! > A friend of mine has put down a deposit of 200 gbp on a car from a > dealer, and was informed that it had two previous owners (it was new in [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Also, if it turns out the latest dealer is not being honest about the > number of previous owners, would she be entitled to her deposit back? I think that dealer are exempt from being counted as a legal owner, otherwise all (dealer sold) cars would have owners counted in steps of 2. If he has lied about the number of owners, what else has he lied about, and yes I would expect you to ba able to get your deposit back. Mike > I think that dealer are exempt from being counted as a legal owner, > otherwise all (dealer sold) cars would have owners counted in steps of 2. > If he has lied about the number of owners, what else has he lied about, > and yes I would expect you to ba able to get your deposit back. Dealers don't count as an owner if they've got the owner to fill in the in the motor trader bit of the log book, but a lot of small-time dealers get a car cheap, register it, drive it around for a month or two, then flog it. Nothing to say that if that's happened there's neccessarily anything wrong with the car, but it may well have had the odd service ignored as the person wasn't going to keep it so didn't bother spending a penny on it. -- Tell me your birthday! www.BornOnTheSameDay.co.uk Called Pete? Join The Pete Collective NOW at www.thepetecollective.co.uk If the vehicle's been misdescribed then your friend would be entitled to cancel and get her deposit refunded. However, it may be worth a discussion with the dealer to see if he can satisfactorily explain the anomaly. I would ask for my deposit back and insist they pay for the AA report too. You would not have had the report if they had got the number of owners right. Obviously it could be a genuine mistake but it is a difficult one to make. Having said the above, 4 owners are not necessarily the end of the world. It all depends on why and whether you can trace the history and reasons properly. Alan The op didn't indicate that his friend had carried out the AA report because of any particular suspicions about the number of previous owners. I got the impression that the AA report was conducted as a routine and sensible safeguard. On this basis I don't agree that the AA report cost would be refundable. No but he may not have gone as far as an AA report if he had known about the owners beforehand. Alan > Obviously it could be a genuine mistake but it is a difficult one to > make. Also, the AA site isn't always accurate. SignatureConor "You're not married, you haven't got a girlfriend and you've never seen Star Trek? Good Lord!" - Patrick Stewart, Extras. The number of registered keepers of a vehicle is a matter of record but isn't it the case that this figure may be equal to, less than, or even more than the number of previous owners. If the buyer doesn't trust his or her own judgement of the condition of a car isn't it better to have a full (AA?) inspection rather than make (often unsound?) inferences on the basis of information (mileage included) that cannot be relied upon? Tempted as I am I will make no mention of the value of stamps in a service book... John >Tempted as I am I will make no mention of the value of stamps in a >service book... Ultimately, these things are worth whatever people think they are worth. What's a mint condition, low mileage 911 worth with no stamps in the service book (because it was diligently serviced by the owner's Porsche mechanic son)? If you plan on ever selling it, it's worth a lot less to you than the equivalent FSH car simply because the people looking to buy it from you would believe it so. SignatureSteve Walker > A friend of mine has put down a deposit of 200 gbp on a car from a > dealer, and was informed that it had two previous owners (it was new in > 1999). > However, she got one of those AA reports on the history of the car, and > it shows 4 previous keepers, all spaced at least a few months apart (it > shows the dates of changes in keepers, but not the names of the keepers). It's entirely possible at least one previous owner has transferred it around the family..... our Alfa 75 has been mine, hers and back to being mine in the last 2 years. We did the same with our Escort and our Cinquecento, depending on who needed to be registered keeper for the insurance. SignatureSteve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # >> A friend of mine has put down a deposit of 200 gbp on a car from a >> dealer, and was informed that it had two previous owners (it was new in [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Cinquecento, depending on who needed to be registered keeper for the >insurance. Nobody "needs" to be registered keeper for the insurance. So long as one of the named drivers is the registered keeper, they are normally happy. And even if not, they will still insure if you explain the circumstances. SignatureAlex Heney, Global Villager I can't be overdrawn, I still have checks left! To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom > >It's entirely possible at least one previous owner has transferred it > >around the family..... our Alfa 75 has been mine, hers and back to being [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > And even if not, they will still insure if you explain the > circumstances. I've had this argument with them several times, but just got the answer 'no insurable interest'. SignatureSteve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # >> >It's entirely possible at least one previous owner has transferred it >> >around the family..... our Alfa 75 has been mine, hers and back to being [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >I've had this argument with them several times, but just got the answer >'no insurable interest'. Wife is registered keeper of the Mazda. Insurance policy is in my name with her as a named driver. Insurance company didn't care. SignatureSteve Walker > >> Nobody "needs" to be registered keeper for the insurance. > >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Wife is registered keeper of the Mazda. Insurance policy is in my name > with her as a named driver. Insurance company didn't care. Have you ever had any hassles getting road tax, with the policyholder being different to the registered keeper? -- Tell me your birthday! www.BornOnTheSameDay.co.uk Called Pete? Join The Pete Collective NOW at www.thepetecollective.co.uk >> >> Nobody "needs" to be registered keeper for the insurance. >> >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Have you ever had any hassles getting road tax, with the policyholder being >different to the registered keeper? Nope. The insurance certificate has the car's registration on it, which seems to be sufficient. SignatureSteve Walker >>> >> Nobody "needs" to be registered keeper for the insurance. >>> >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >Nope. The insurance certificate has the car's registration on it, which >seems to be sufficient. It should also have the registered keeper on it in some capacity. At least according to the notes on the back of the V11W (the standard relicensing document they send out to you). Those notes say "It must cover liability to third parties, be valid on the date the licence comes into force, and indicate that it covers the use of the vehicle by the registered keeper". I presume that this is because the registered keeper will be assumed to be liable in any incident where the vehicle is not being driven, unless they can show somebody else was responsible at the time. SignatureAlex Heney, Global Villager Reality is always more conservative than ideology. To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom >>>> >> Nobody "needs" to be registered keeper for the insurance. >>>> >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >It should also have the registered keeper on it in some capacity. It does, she's a named driver. SignatureSteve Walker > Have you ever had any hassles getting road tax, with the policyholder > being different to the registered keeper? Nope. Half of "the fleet" is in her name, <sheepish> mainly so I could drive 'em home from purchase on the "Somebody Else's Car" clause... The one time I've regretted doing that was the Saab - she got twice as many unusual and slightly cool stamps in her passport on the Dakar. Not many people's passports carry a "You've brought a car into Mauritania, bloody well take it out, too, else we'll rob you even worse" stamp. >> >It's entirely possible at least one previous owner has transferred it >> >around the family..... our Alfa 75 has been mine, hers and back to being [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >I've had this argument with them several times, but just got the answer >'no insurable interest'. They are clearly wrong. First, "registered keeper" is NOT equal to owner. Second, unless you are insuring it for fire and theft only (so not legal on the road), whoever is "using" the vehicle has an insurable interest. It is arguable (but still wrong IMO) that only the owner (not necessarily the registered keeper) has an insurable interest that would be covered by the fully comprehensive part of the policy, and so I can see that they might refuse to insure anything more than third party except to the owner. But the most important point is that first one. Registered keeper is NOT the same as owner. SignatureAlex Heney, Global Villager A professor is one who talks in someone else's sleep. To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom > > A friend of mine has put down a deposit of 200 gbp on a car from a > > dealer, and was informed that it had two previous owners (it was new in [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Cinquecento, depending on who needed to be registered keeper for the > insurance. Is there really much point in doing that? Not strictly honest, but surely you'd get away with playing the "lost in post" card, and if a claim arose, just fill it in as neccessary, take a photocopy, hide the original (or destroy it), and swear blind it was sent off. -- Tell me your birthday! www.BornOnTheSameDay.co.uk Called Pete? Join The Pete Collective NOW at www.thepetecollective.co.uk > > It's entirely possible at least one previous owner has transferred it > > around the family..... our Alfa 75 has been mine, hers and back to being [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > just fill it in as neccessary, take a photocopy, hide the original (or > destroy it), and swear blind it was sent off. To be honest, given the cars in question, adding an owner or two is hardly going to make a difference to it's value, so it's better to be totally honest. SignatureSteve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # |
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