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Car Forum / UK Car Forums / General Car Topics (UK group) / December 2007Are there cars with 2 transmissions
I was wondering if there are any vehicles out there with a manual and a auto box that can easily be switched between ? > I was wondering if there are any vehicles out there with a manual and a > auto box that can easily be switched between ? No. There are auto boxes, such as DSG, that give a degree of manual override, but there is no such thing, as far as I know, that will switch between a fully conventional manual and a fully automatic. > > I was wondering if there are any vehicles out there with a manual and a > > auto box that can easily be switched between ? > > No. There are auto boxes, such as DSG, that give a degree of manual > override, but there is no such thing, as far as I know, that will switch > between a fully conventional manual and a fully automatic. Erm, that's almost exactly what DSG / Sillyspeed etc. do. They're a manual box with electronic gubbins that will control the shift.  SignatureSteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # >> > I was wondering if there are any vehicles out there with a manual and a >> > auto box that can easily be switched between ? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > They're a manual box with electronic gubbins that will control the > shift. No , they are automatic gearboxes with a manual override as they allow the car to run at it's full range of speeds from idle to flat out without the driver having to change gears. <FX: Marks thread "ignore"> SignatureAlex New laptop - Sig missing > > Erm, that's almost exactly what DSG / Sillyspeed etc. do. > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > <FX: Marks thread "ignore"> <opens popcorn> SignatureSteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # >>> Erm, that's almost exactly what DSG / Sillyspeed etc. do. >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > <opens popcorn> Oh no, not again. I overspent on my popcorn budget last time! Merry Christmas all, Dave. Dr Zoidberg ("Dr Zoidberg" <AlexNOOOO!!!!!!@drzoidberg.co.uk>) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: >> Erm, that's almost exactly what DSG / Sillyspeed etc. do. >> >> They're a manual box with electronic gubbins that will control the >> shift. > No , they are automatic gearboxes with a manual override as they allow > the car to run at it's full range of speeds from idle to flat out > without the driver having to change gears. Funny, I thought they were a pair of manual gearboxes strapped together with a shitload of electrickery. > <FX: Marks thread "ignore"> Pffft. Wuss. > Dr Zoidberg ("Dr Zoidberg" <AlexNOOOO!!!!!!@drzoidberg.co.uk>) gurgled > happily, sounding much like they were saying: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Funny, I thought they were a pair of manual gearboxes strapped together > with a shitload of electrickery. The Sillyspeed isn't even that - it's a bog standard manual box with electrickery gubbings strapped onto it to act on the clutch and shifter. SignatureSteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate SteveH,<steve@italiancar.co.uk> managed to produce the following words of wisdom >> Dr Zoidberg ("Dr Zoidberg" <AlexNOOOO!!!!!!@drzoidberg.co.uk>) >> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> Funny, I thought they were a pair of manual gearboxes strapped >> together with a shitload of electrickery. DSG is really mental the way it works. Invented by Porsche, most of it... > The Sillyspeed isn't even that - it's a bog standard manual box with > electrickery gubbings strapped onto it to act on the clutch and > shifter. The Sillyspeed is normally a blown up manual gearbox with loads of awkward shite strapped to it. SignaturePete M - OMF#9 "Save your breath for cooling your porridge! W&P Range Rover V8 Turbo Scorpio Ultima 24v > > The Sillyspeed isn't even that - it's a bog standard manual box with > > electrickery gubbings strapped onto it to act on the clutch and > > shifter. > > The Sillyspeed is normally a blown up manual gearbox with loads of awkward > shite strapped to it. To be fair, it's not usually the gearbox bit that goes wrong. It's just the Magnetti Spaghetti shite bolted onto it that's less than trustworthy. SignatureSteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate SteveH,<steve@italiancar.co.uk> managed to produce the following words of wisdom >>> The Sillyspeed isn't even that - it's a bog standard manual box with >>> electrickery gubbings strapped onto it to act on the clutch and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > just the Magnetti Spaghetti shite bolted onto it that's less than > trustworthy. The synchro hubs have a habit of destructing on 'em. I've seen the remains of a few.. Whether this is caused by the gearbox mechanically or gubbintronically I don't know. Prolly both. SignaturePete M - OMF#9 "Save your breath for cooling your porridge! W&P Range Rover V8 Turbo Scorpio Ultima 24v > > To be fair, it's not usually the gearbox bit that goes wrong. It's > > just the Magnetti Spaghetti shite bolted onto it that's less than [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Whether this is caused by the gearbox mechanically or gubbintronically I > don't know. Prolly both. Pah! Lack of synchros is normal for an Alfa box.... from what I know, the box itself is no better or worse than the standard box - any mechanical failures are caused by an electrionics f.ck-up. SignatureSteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # > Pah! Lack of synchros is normal for an Alfa box.... from what I know, > the box itself is no better or worse than the standard box - any > mechanical failures are caused by an electrionics f.ck-up. Mine certainly had no synchros. After the first few crashes down the box to make up for a lack of brakes, anyway. Seemed to work OK though, just do a fast hard change, sometimes even with the clutch. > > Pah! Lack of synchros is normal for an Alfa box.... from what I know, > > the box itself is no better or worse than the standard box - any [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Seemed to work OK though, just do a fast hard change, sometimes even with > the clutch. You had a 75 didn't you? 'They all do that, Sir' I paid for a box rebuild on mine, so I have the only 75 in the UK with a full set of working synchros ;-) SignatureSteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # >> > Pah! Lack of synchros is normal for an Alfa box.... from what I know, >> > the box itself is no better or worse than the standard box - any [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I paid for a box rebuild on mine, so I have the only 75 in the UK with a > full set of working synchros ;-) Actually I wasn't planning to bring it home with me - the way I was treating it pretty much *anything* would have 'done that, sir'... Having a car on it's last outing (and on private roads too...) is like having a hire car, only it goes even faster in first gear... > The Sillyspeed is normally a blown up manual gearbox with loads of > awkward shite strapped to it. Much like an Alfa then: a blown up car with loads of awkward shite strapped to it. Pete M ("Pete M" <pete.murray@blueSPAMFREEyonder.co.uk>) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: >>> Funny, I thought they were a pair of manual gearboxes strapped >>> together with a shitload of electrickery. > DSG is really mental the way it works. Invented by Porsche, most of > it... I thought it was Borg-Warner? Anyway - fully-working Meccano DSG... http://www.selmec.org.uk/article_0004_computer_controlled_dsg_transmission.aspx > Anyway - fully-working Meccano DSG... > http://www.selmec.org.uk/article_0004_computer_controlled_dsg_transmission.aspx That's some serious Meccano building. Silk (Silk <me@privacy.net>) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: > That's some serious Meccano building. Isn't it just... Somebody really needs a life. > Silk (Silk <me@privacy.net>) gurgled happily, sounding much like they > were saying: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Somebody really needs a life. They have. It's just spent in a garden shed. > Silk (Silk <m...@privacy.net>) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were > saying: > > > That's some serious Meccano building. > > Isn't it just... I didn't know this bit, though ... "The beauty and simplicity of the DSG principle is not new, however. The invention of the double clutch gearbox is attributed to a French engineer, Andolphe Kegresse, around 1939 (figure 5). He intended to use it in the Citroen "Traction" vehicle, but business and war circumstances prevented further development." Dear lord, think of the nightmarish mechanical complexity Citroen could have achieved if they had used that on the DS. Mind you, it might have made the hydraulics simpler. Ian > Dear lord, think of the nightmarish mechanical complexity Citroen could > have achieved if they had used that on the DS. Mind you, it might have > made the hydraulics simpler. At least we would have had a good reason to buy one. > > Dear lord, think of the nightmarish mechanical complexity Citroen could > > have achieved if they had used that on the DS. Mind you, it might have > > made the hydraulics simpler. > > At least we would have had a good reason to buy one. Is that supposed to be provocative? I like the DS myself, both mechanically and aesthetically, but I can see that they might not be to everyone's taste. I do wish Citroen had had the money, time and inclination to give the D a better engine: the flat 6 it was deigned for would have been nice but a V-something would have been even better. Someone was flogging a low mileage SM engine and transmission on eBay recently and I was almost tempted ... Oddly enough, I admire the DSG transmission for the same reasons that I admire the DS suspension. Ian >> > Dear lord, think of the nightmarish mechanical complexity Citroen >> > could have achieved if they had used that on the DS. Mind you, it [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Is that supposed to be provocative? Is this Usenet? Does a bear sh.t in the woods? etc. I had a BX19 TGD as a company car once - I had no choice. Nice comfortable car and great, for the time, diesel engine. I just couldn't live with the ugliness of the thing. I got another job in the end. >>>> Dear lord, think of the nightmarish mechanical complexity Citroen >>>> could have achieved if they had used that on the DS. Mind you, it [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > comfortable car and great, for the time, diesel engine. I just couldn't > live with the ugliness of the thing. I got another job in the end. I had one of those as well, I liked it, good for London Amsterdam flat out over and over and over again. Lent it to a 'mate' who wrote it off in Belgium. :-( > > Is that supposed to be provocative? > > Is this Usenet? Does a bear sh.t in the woods? etc. Does Dolly Parton sleep on her back? Ian >> > Is that supposed to be provocative? >> >> Is this Usenet? Does a bear sh.t in the woods? etc. > > Does Dolly Parton sleep on her back? I don't know. > Silk (Silk <me@privacy.net>) gurgled happily, sounding much like they > were saying: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Somebody really needs a life. If anything, this one is even more scary... <http://www.selmec.org.uk/article_0005_a_clutch_of_differentials.aspx> > The Sillyspeed isn't even that - it's a bog standard manual box with > electrickery gubbings strapped onto it to act on the clutch and shifter. Electric is cheating. Ian "DS" J >>> > I was wondering if there are any vehicles out there with a manual and >>> > a [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > <FX: Marks thread "ignore"> Someone so pedantic should know better the use of the apostrophe! > Erm, that's almost exactly what DSG / Sillyspeed etc. do. > > They're a manual box with electronic gubbins that will control the > shift. Stop being a tit. > They're a manual box with electronic gubbins that will control the > shift. <cough> In uk.rec.driving, SteveH wrote: >[DSG] > >They're a manual box with electronic gubbins that will control the >shift. ISTM there's rather more to it than that. The twin-clutch arrangement, an essential element of the DSG box, is neither electronic gubbins nor part of a normal manual transmission. And the result is continuous acceleration that is unattainable with a manual box, no matter how you control the shift. SignatureMike Barnes > I was wondering if there are any vehicles out there with a manual and a > auto box that can easily be switched between ? If you mean while driving, no. A manual box means to me it also has an ordinary clutch with pedal. If you're willing to forgo that then there are many autos which allow manual override. But non have a conventional gearchange gate. If you mean can a manual car be converted to auto then yes - it's quite easy with older models where there was an auto option. Signature*I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message. Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. > A manual box means to me it also has an > ordinary clutch with pedal. Saab for a while had a manual box with an automated clutch. Many have since been converted to a manual clutch with the same box. http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/gearbox/tech_gear_manual.htm And Alpina shift-tronic http://www.xs4all.nl/~alsoft/850%20alpina/b12_57.htm SignatureCarl Robson Audio stream: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com:8000/samtest Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com >> A manual box means to me it also has an >> ordinary clutch with pedal. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > And Alpina shift-tronic > http://www.xs4all.nl/~alsoft/850%20alpina/b12_57.htm Many moons ago I had a porsche targa (for a whole day only) it had a manual box and the clutch controlled by a button on the gearlever. > Many moons ago I had a porsche targa (for a whole day only) it had a > manual box and the clutch controlled by a button on the gearlever. Wasn't that how the (old, proper) Beetle 1500 semi-automatic worked too? Ian >> Many moons ago I had a porsche targa (for a whole day only) it had a >> manual box and the clutch controlled by a button on the gearlever. > > Wasn't that how the (old, proper) Beetle 1500 semi-automatic worked > too? Don't know exactly, I do remember the beetle semi auto but never personally have experienced one but seeing as porsche is only a low line volkswagen you are probably right. > > A manual box means to me it also has an > > ordinary clutch with pedal. > > > Saab for a while had a manual box with an automated clutch. Many have > since been converted to a manual clutch with the same box. > http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/gearbox/tech_gear_manual.htm > And Alpina shift-tronic > http://www.xs4all.nl/~alsoft/850%20alpina/b12_57.htm The Smiths Manumatic system - automatic clutch with normal manual box - predates that somewhat. Came out in the '50s. Also known as Easydrive. Fitted mainly to Hillmans - although also an option on some BMC products. Signature*I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >>> A manual box means to me it also has an >>> ordinary clutch with pedal. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > predates that somewhat. Came out in the '50s. Also known as Easydrive. > Fitted mainly to Hillmans - although also an option on some BMC products. And Citroen traffic clutch fitted to 2cv's and dyanes in the sixties, basically a centrifugal clutch. Then theres the wilson preselector fitted to RT London Buses since the early thirties (though not a car) >>>> A manual box means to me it also has an >>>> ordinary clutch with pedal. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > basically a centrifugal clutch. Then theres the wilson preselector > fitted to RT London Buses since the early thirties (though not a car) The Wilson pre-selector system was fitted on Daimler and Lanchester cars in the 1950s. Best wishes all, Dave. > The Wilson pre-selector system was fitted on Daimler and Lanchester cars > in the 1950s. I couldn't think which car it was, but it was Lanchester that PC did an article about when discussing various types of tranmissions. SignatureCarl Robson Audio stream: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com:8000/samtest Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com >> The Wilson pre-selector system was fitted on Daimler and Lanchester cars >> in the 1950s. >> > I couldn't think which car it was, but it was Lanchester that PC did an > article about when discussing various types of tranmissions. It was a Lanchester, I remember going in one belonging to a neighbour of my grandparents. > > And Citroen traffic clutch fitted to 2cv's and dyanes in the sixties, > > basically a centrifugal clutch. Then theres the wilson preselector > > fitted to RT London Buses since the early thirties (though not a car) > > The Wilson pre-selector system was fitted on Daimler and Lanchester cars > in the 1950s. And to Armstrong-Siddeleys. There was also the C-matic fitted to Citroens. > > And Citroen traffic clutch fitted to 2cv's and dyanes in the sixties, > > basically a centrifugal clutch. Then theres the wilson preselector > > fitted to RT London Buses since the early thirties (though not a car) > The Wilson pre-selector system was fitted on Daimler and Lanchester cars > in the 1950s. And to some BSA cars. Used to have one. Signature*Women like silent men; they think they're listening. Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. > The Smiths Manumatic system - automatic clutch with normal manual box - > predates that somewhat. Came out in the '50s. Also known as Easydrive. > Fitted mainly to Hillmans - although also an option on some BMC products. Wasn't there a VW golf system on the 1500 too offered at some point, and as Citroen GS. SignatureCarl Robson Audio stream: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com:8000/samtest Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com <uk.rec.cars.misc> <James> <Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:53:45 -0000> <2L6dnR3lIapVIfPanZ2dnUVZ8tChnZ2d@bt.com> > ? Yep . www.jpgimage.co.uk/full.php?image=581 > <uk.rec.cars.misc> > <James> >> ? > Yep . > www.jpgimage.co.uk/full.php?image=581 This one *did* have... <http://www.fazed.org/video/view/?id=116> Watch it to the bitter end... (or even better pause it while it downloads then skip straight to about 2:30 onwards...) > I was wondering if there are any vehicles out there with a manual and a auto > box that can easily be switched between ? Cars, no unless you're at the top end £100k bracket. Lorries - all the "automatics" are merely manual boxes with electrickery to handle the auto part. SignatureConor I'm not prejudiced. I hate everyone equally. > > I was wondering if there are any vehicles out there with a manual and a auto > > box that can easily be switched between ? > > Cars, no unless you're at the top end £100k bracket. Lorries - all the > "automatics" are merely manual boxes with electrickery to handle the > auto part. Just like DSG and Sillyspeed, then. SignatureSteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # >I was wondering if there are any vehicles out there with a manual and a >auto box that can easily be switched between ? Poor troll, 0/10. SignatureDan Clio V6 >>I was wondering if there are any vehicles out there with a manual and a >>auto box that can easily be switched between ? >> > Poor troll, 0/10. How can that be? If it wasn't for the hard of thinking who can't tell the difference between an automatic and manual gearbox it would be a fair question. >>I was wondering if there are any vehicles out there with a manual and a >>auto box that can easily be switched between ? > > Poor troll, 0/10. I'm not a troll Dan, I'm a regular, just an occasional poster. I was just wondeirng as someone asked me an I hadn't a clue and where better else to ask. > I'm not a troll Dan, I'm a regular, just an occasional poster. > > I was just wondeirng as someone asked me an I hadn't a clue and where > better else to ask. A proper regular would know this is the last place to ask. :-( >> I'm not a troll Dan, I'm a regular, just an occasional poster. >> >> I was just wondeirng as someone asked me an I hadn't a clue and where >> better else to ask. > > A proper regular would know this is the last place to ask. :-( :-/ >>> I'm not a troll Dan, I'm a regular, just an occasional poster. >>> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > :-/ Yea sorry, I just assumed after the multiple threads that have been spawned on 'is a DSG a manual or auto', that you were going for the massive reaction thread hehe :-) SignatureDan Clio V6 > Yea sorry, I just assumed after the multiple threads that have been > spawned on 'is a DSG a manual or auto', that you were going for the > massive reaction thread hehe :-) And? Which is it? In uk.rec.driving, PCPaul wrote: >> Yea sorry, I just assumed after the multiple threads that have been >> spawned on 'is a DSG a manual or auto', that you were going for the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Which is it? Neither. Both. Whatever. Who cares? (semi-serious question) SignatureMike Barnes > In uk.rec.driving, PCPaul wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Who cares? (semi-serious question) Actually, you're right. Serious answer. It's a gearbox with some quite interesting techniques involved, if you find that sort of thing interesting. If you are shallow enough to *need* labels on everything, then pick one. > Neither. Both. Whatever. I still haven't heard a better explanation than witchcraft. SignatureCarl Robson Audio stream: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com:8000/samtest Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com |
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