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Car Forum / UK Car Forums / Classic Cars (UK group) / May 2006Advice on car purchase
I'm looking for advice on getting a classic car for everyday use. The factors are these: I only drive about 3-4000 miles a year I don't work so running costs (ie Tax and Insurance are important) I can do all my own servicing and reasonable major repairs (having had an MG Midget) Must be able to carry dogs. Based on these parameters I am looking at spending up to £6k on a GOOD semi/fully restored Morris Traveller. My question is, given good care and attention, (ie waxoiling chassis every year and patching up the underseal etc etc) is it reasonable to expect a semi/fully restored Traveller to last another 20 years? >I'm looking for advice on getting a classic car for everyday use. >The factors are these: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >year and patching up the underseal etc etc) is it reasonable to expect a >semi/fully restored Traveller to last another 20 years? I don't see why not, if it's been done right in the first place. At that budget you should be able to afford something from the specialist dealers like Charles Ware. Parts availability is excellent. Any car which is well-looked after should last 20 years. The timber on the Traveller will need plenty of attention to keep it in top condition, as it's the most expensive bit to replace. And to be quite honest, I can't think of another car which fits your requirements better than that!  SignatureRegards, Chris (Please take out my car to reply by email) ---1967 Riley Elf----1978 Mini 1000----1965 Hillman Minx--- ---1957 Standard 8---1979 Ford Capri---1969 Morris Minor--- ---1966 Triumph Herald Estate--1972 Mini Clubman estate --- ********** Please don't email in HTML! ********** >>I'm looking for advice on getting a classic car for everyday use. >>The factors are these: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > And to be quite honest, I can't think of another car which fits your > requirements better than that! Thanks for that - it's funny isn't it, that for that price I could get a 3 or 4 year-old small hatchback, but would it last more than about ten years? Probably not! And, wouldn't have the "charisma" of the moggie...... >>>I'm looking for advice on getting a classic car for everyday use. >>>The factors are these: [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > years? > Probably not! And, wouldn't have the "charisma" of the moggie...... What have you been smoking? I drive a 16 year old Golf. It doesn't need waxoyling every year, it starts no matter what, and I expect it to last for the rest of time. Whereas a Morris Traveller will spend most of it's time trying to turn into iron oxide. >> Thanks for that - it's funny isn't it, that for that price I could >> get a 3 or 4 year-old small hatchback, but would it last more than >> about ten years? >> Probably not! And, wouldn't have the "charisma" of the moggie...... > What have you been smoking? I drive a 16 year old Golf. It doesn't > need waxoyling every year, it starts no matter what, and I expect it > to last for the rest of time. Whereas a Morris Traveller will spend > most of it's time trying to turn into iron oxide. But the Moggie'd always make you - and others - smile, whereas the Golf (1990 - so late Mk2/early Mk3?) is just... boring... >>> Thanks for that - it's funny isn't it, that for that price I could >>> get a 3 or 4 year-old small hatchback, but would it last more than [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > But the Moggie'd always make you - and others - smile, whereas the Golf > (1990 - so late Mk2/early Mk3?) is just... boring... Oh aye. That's why they're widely viewed as second only to the 205 GTI in the fun to drive stakes. That makes me smile. > But the Moggie'd always make you - and others - smile, Are you sure that is a smile and not a grimace? SignatureConor, Same sh.t, different day. > What have you been smoking? Nothing..... > I drive a 16 year old Golf. It doesn't need > waxoyling every year, it starts no matter what, and I expect it to last > for the rest of time. Umm I would be VERY surprised if it was still on the road in another 15 years...... SignatureGordon Burgess-Parker Interim Systems and Management Accounting www.gbpcomputing.co.uk <snip> > > I drive a 16 year old Golf. It doesn't need > > waxoyling every year, it starts no matter what, and I expect it to last > > for the rest of time. > > Umm I would be VERY surprised if it was still on the road in another 15 > years...... I was taken aback the other day when an immaculate (very early) Mk1 Golf passed-by..... Very much the exception than the rule, in fact I suspect that the value of the Mk1 Golf was probably matching that of a Minor Traveller due to rarity! ><snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >value of the Mk1 Golf was probably matching that of a Minor Traveller >due to rarity! I know of a couple of very good ones. But as you say, rare. SignatureRegards, Chris (Please take out my car to reply by email) ---1967 Riley Elf----1978 Mini 1000----1965 Hillman Minx--- ---1957 Standard 8---1979 Ford Capri---1969 Morris Minor--- ---1966 Triumph Herald Estate--1972 Mini Clubman estate --- ********** Please don't email in HTML! ********** >> What have you been smoking? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Umm I would be VERY surprised if it was still on the road in another 15 > years...... Come on. Think about it. The only reason classics become classics (ie, old, sought after and expensive) is because they have a propensity to pack up or rust to nothing and become rare. MK2 Golf GTi: Wax filled panels from new Fuel injection, so the engine runs and lasts better Closer tolerances and better materials for the engine + running gear Engines known for being able to run to stellar mileages without problems. No habit of random "black boxes" packing up and killing the whole car, and the FI system can be replaced relatively cheaply with a new one if it did pack up and parts weren't available in the distant future. 120mph and 45mpg+ (not at the same time mind), so it's actually usable as a day to day car 10000mile service schedule, so I don't spend every weekend underneath it. Minor: Panels not filled with wax from new, but can be DIYed 20 years after the car was built Carbs. Shite starting on cold days, crap fuel economy, crap fuelling in general so the engine's never quite getting the right mixture. End result of shorter engine life between rebuilds. Old engine design, with old materials etc. I know for a fact that the Golfs are very easy to work on, and suspect the Minor is too, so they're probably even in that stakes. > Minor: <snip> > Carbs. Shite starting on cold days, Oi! Some of us can still set up an S.U. carb (or even two, or three) and a conventional ignition system so that the engine starts first time, even in winter. SignatureKevin Poole **Use current month and year to reply (e.g. may2006@mainbeam.co.uk)*** >> Minor: >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >a conventional ignition system so that the engine starts first time, >even in winter. Not that much of a problem. I drove my Mini to work every day through the winter, never had a problem starting it. And nothing can match a good Mini for the smile factor when you chuck it round a bend! SignatureRegards, Chris (Please take out my car to reply by email) ---1967 Riley Elf----1978 Mini 1000----1965 Hillman Minx--- ---1957 Standard 8---1979 Ford Capri---1969 Morris Minor--- ---1966 Triumph Herald Estate--1972 Mini Clubman estate --- ********** Please don't email in HTML! ********** > Oi! Some of us can still set up an S.U. carb (or even two, or three) and > a conventional ignition system so that the engine starts first time, > even in winter. Likewise, a pair of properly set up Strombergs will start first time with frost on the car. Come to think of it, my Imp with its Solex never gave me cause for concern in the winter either. Jim >> Minor: >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > a conventional ignition system so that the engine starts first time, > even in winter. Well I never had any problems with my MG Midget starting easily in the winter.....(twin 1.25" SUs and points....) >I know for a fact that the Golfs are very easy to work on, and suspect the >Minor is too, so they're probably even in that stakes. I don't believe *anything* is as easy to work on as a Minor, and I'm damn sure no FWD is. SignatureIan >>I know for a fact that the Golfs are very easy to work on, and suspect the >>Minor is too, so they're probably even in that stakes. > > I don't believe *anything* is as easy to work on as a Minor, You've never tried replaced their sills then. Or anything to do with the brake master cylinder. >>I know for a fact that the Golfs are very easy to work on, and suspect the >>Minor is too, so they're probably even in that stakes. > > I don't believe *anything* is as easy to work on as a Minor, and I'm > damn sure no FWD is. Brake Master Cylinder. Richard SignatureRichardK - http://www.dmc12.demon.co.uk/ - retro, music, cars. 2006 Mazda RX8, 1992 Sera Phase III -= Do Not Tempt With New Cars =- "If the thought of something makes me giggle for more than 15 seconds I am to assume I am not allowed to do it". * 64 is 128 for email * > > I don't believe *anything* is as easy to work on as a Minor, and I'm > > damn sure no FWD is. > > Brake Master Cylinder. I was genuinely concerned when I saw where they'd put it. SignatureConor, Same sh.t, different day. > > > I don't believe *anything* is as easy to work on as a Minor, and I'm > > > damn sure no FWD is. > > > > Brake Master Cylinder. > > > I was genuinely concerned when I saw where they'd put it. Common enough with bottom pivot pedals. Signature*A closed mouth gathers no feet.* Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. : > > > I don't believe *anything* is as easy to work on as a Minor, and I'm : > > > damn sure no FWD is. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] : : Common enough with bottom pivot pedals. It's just the business of taking off the torsion bar to get the bolts out which is a tad boring. Well, that's the official method, of course... I had to do the master cylinder on a Morris MO recently. Dead easy. Ian > : > > > I don't believe *anything* is as easy to work on as a Minor, and > I'm [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Ian Moggy master cyl no problem, just carefully lever the torsion bar enough to remove the bolts. Then when replacing m/cyl put the bolts back the other way round so that next time its just undoing the nuts. While you've got the floor panel off check the condition of the brake pipes hidden in the channel. I had one rust away there resulting in no brakes. It was a police panda car which caused a lot of argument. Alan >> : > > > I don't believe *anything* is as easy to work on as a Minor, and >> I'm [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > to remove the bolts. Then when replacing m/cyl put the bolts back the > other way round so that next time its just undoing the nuts. Some time since I last did one, but IIRC the bolts may need shorteng a little, as in the reversed position the bolt end may foul the torsion bar. While you've got the > floor panel off check the condition of the brake pipes hidden in the > channel. I had one rust away there resulting in no brakes. It was a police > panda car which caused a lot of argument. Unless it has been done already, I would advise any Minor owner to replace those particular pipes, if not all of them, with cupro nickel ones, Kunifer etc, as soon as possible. They'll last indefinitely. Unlike Bundy tubing which can rust, giving it a limited lifespan. Don't replace them with copper pipes, as copper has it's own problems. It doesn't corrode, but copper age hardens which can lead to their cracking. Mike. >>>I know for a fact that the Golfs are very easy to work on, and suspect the >>>Minor is too, so they're probably even in that stakes. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Brake Master Cylinder. True. But when that fails, you don't have to do any more work on the car at all. In my experience, at least... SignatureIan > > >Brake Master Cylinder. > > True. But when that fails, you don't have to do any more work on the > car at all. > > In my experience, at least... But not in mine :-) Jim >> > >Brake Master Cylinder. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >But not in mine :-) Probably depends where you are when it fails. SignatureIan We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Ian Dalziel <iandalziel@lineone.net> saying something like: >I don't believe *anything* is as easy to work on as a Minor, and I'm >damn sure no FWD is. Avenger beats just about everything hands down for ease of working on. Designed that way from scratch to keep maintenance costs down for fleet buyers. Oddly, these days that doesn't seem to be a factor in design. SignatureDave SE6a > We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the > drugs began to take hold. I remember Ian Dalziel [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Designed that way from scratch to keep maintenance costs down for fleet > buyers. Sounds like you're not very familiar with Minors. I can't think of any job on a Minor that could be regarded as anything but easy, and I speak as someone who has rebuilt one from a bare shell. I've had little to do with Avengers, but I've seen enough of them to know that of the two, the Minor has the far simpler construction. Designed nearly 20 years earlier, yet with it's torsion bar front suspension and rack and pinion steering, quite advanced in it's time. Mike. We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "Mike G" <metier@lycos.co.uk> saying something like: >Sounds like you're not very familiar with Minors. Wrong. >I can't think of any job on a Minor that could be regarded as anything but >easy, Torsion bars, trunnions, brake master cyl. >and I speak as someone who has rebuilt one from a bare shell. >I've had little to do with Avengers, but I've seen enough of them to know >that of the two, the Minor has the far simpler construction. Not at all. It's the same. Designed nearly >20 years earlier, yet with it's torsion bar front suspension and rack and >pinion steering, quite advanced in it's time. For its time, yes. SignatureDave SE6a > We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the > drugs began to take hold. I remember "Mike G" <metier@lycos.co.uk> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Torsion bars, trunnions, brake master cyl. What's difficult about those jobs? I've never had a problem with any of them. Torsion bars may be a bit fiddly to set up, but apart from that they're reasonably straightforward enough to remove and replace. Trunnions are a simple spanner job. I've replaced several of those. The master cyl unions and pipes can a bit fiddly to get at and replace, but the M/cyl fixing bolts can easily be removed by levering the torsion bar a little. >>and I speak as someone who has rebuilt one from a bare shell. >>I've had little to do with Avengers, but I've seen enough of them to know >>that of the two, the Minor has the far simpler construction. > > Not at all. It's the same. The Avenger bare body shell appears to be more complete. Ie, no separate rear wings, or fully removable front grill panels etc. Also I would imagine, being a later design, that the interior trim is more complicated to remove than the simple screw fixings found in the Minor. But, as I intimated earlier, I'm not very familiar with Avengers, so I'm really only guessing, based on the cars later design, and more modern appearance, and the fact that as an engineer I can't really see how a cars construction can be much more simple than that of an MM. Apart from having a more rounded shape, the MM has a lot in common with pre WW2 cars that were mainly just bolted together. Mike. We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "Mike G" <metier@lycos.co.uk> saying something like: >>>I can't think of any job on a Minor that could be regarded as anything but >>>easy, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >M/cyl fixing bolts can easily be removed by levering the torsion bar a >little. Yes, but the design of those parts is typical of the way things were done in the 50s, without any great thought put into servicing costs. Ok, the trunnions were a spectacular anomaly, and most other service items on the car were easy enough to get at, but the designers of the car hadn't given any thought to long term maintenance issues. I expect it's because the average life expectancy of cars then was around 7 years from prod line to scrapper, and by that time damned few torsion bars would need replaced. Oh, they were chronic for breaking half-shafts, too. Check yours at the inner spline ends, just where the splines blend into the shaft body. >>>and I speak as someone who has rebuilt one from a bare shell. >>>I've had little to do with Avengers, but I've seen enough of them to know [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >The Avenger bare body shell appears to be more complete. I wasn't really meaning the shell, more the complexity of both cars is of the same order. The difference being the Avenger is a much easier car to work on, for major and minor jobs[1]. since it was designed that way in an effort to wrest some of the market from the Escort. [1] Clutch in 20mins, for example. Track control arm in 30, if you stop for a fag. SignatureDave SE6a > We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the > drugs began to take hold. I remember "Mike G" <metier@lycos.co.uk> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > Oh, they were chronic for breaking half-shafts, too. Check yours at the > inner spline ends, just where the splines blend into the shaft body. It's my wifes actually. A 948cc 1957 convertible, it's been off the road for some time now, but in the years she was using it she clocked up getting on for 200k. Including 2 european trips. Switzerland and the south of France. Both trouble free incidently. Hang on. I tell a lie. The mileometer packed up about a mile from Calais on the way home from Switzerland. Had to have it rebuilt. The mileometer is on it's third trip round at present. For all of those years it had the original half shafts, until the back axle was replaced a few years ago due to a severe rear end shunt. The car is actually a cut and shut job now, as the rear end was virtually completely replaced, with that from a donor car. Ok on a car of that age, and the fact that concealed in the side box sections are two lengths of 4" x 2" x 1/8" rectangular tubing, that cover the entire length. They were fitted long before the accident to stiffen the chassis. Scuttle shake was almost non existant after I had that done. Probably the reason why the front of the car suffered virtually no damage, after having the rear quarter of the car, including the mudguard, wheel and axle, and most of the boot, practically ripped off. I guess we'll just have to agree to differ about which car is the easiest to work on. Mike. We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "Mike G" <metier@lycos.co.uk> saying something like: >> Oh, they were chronic for breaking half-shafts, too. Check yours at the >> inner spline ends, just where the splines blend into the shaft body. > >It's my wifes actually. A 948cc 1957 convertible, Ah. I'm more familiar with the later 1100 ones. All that extra raging power was too much for the puny halfshafts, obviously. It's not that I don't like them; indeed, many a happy hour was spent up to my eyes in shite and dirt working on them, it's just that I came to appreciate more modern designs. SignatureDave SE6a > MK2 Golf GTi: > Wax filled panels from new Fuel injection, so the engine runs and lasts > better Closer tolerances and better materials for the engine + running [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > usable as a day to day car 10000mile service schedule, so I don't spend > every weekend underneath it. Still a crap car in its class, though. ;-) Signature*Nostalgia isn't what is used to be. Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >>MK2 Golf GTi: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Still a crap car in its class, though. ;-) That's the Mk III. The Mk II is a bloody excellent car. Richard (Mk IIIs rust, too. I've seen enough rotting ones to know that it's not just the odd badly-repaired one). SignatureRichardK - http://www.dmc12.demon.co.uk/ - retro, music, cars. 2006 Mazda RX8, 1992 Sera Phase III -= Do Not Tempt With New Cars =- "If the thought of something makes me giggle for more than 15 seconds I am to assume I am not allowed to do it". * 64 is 128 for email * > > Still a crap car in its class, though. ;-) > That's the Mk III. The Mk II is a bloody excellent car. Only minor experience of it, but I preferred the Mk I... Signature*In "Casablanca", Humphrey Bogart never said "Play it again, Sam" * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >>>Still a crap car in its class, though. ;-) > >>That's the Mk III. The Mk II is a bloody excellent car. > > Only minor experience of it, but I preferred the Mk I... Mk II feels a bit more solid; I prefer the looks of the Mk 1 and the overall experince of the Mk II. Wouldn't have a Mk III if it was free. Richard SignatureRichardK - http://www.dmc12.demon.co.uk/ - retro, music, cars. 2006 Mazda RX8, 1992 Sera Phase III -= Do Not Tempt With New Cars =- "If the thought of something makes me giggle for more than 15 seconds I am to assume I am not allowed to do it". * 64 is 128 for email * > > Thanks for that - it's funny isn't it, that for that price I could get > > a 3 or 4 year-old small hatchback, but would it last more than about > > ten years? Probably not! And, wouldn't have the "charisma" of the > > moggie...... > What have you been smoking? I drive a 16 year old Golf. It doesn't need > waxoyling every year, it starts no matter what, and I expect it to last > for the rest of time. Whereas a Morris Traveller will spend most of > it's time trying to turn into iron oxide. Not if the 'insides' are properly protected after repair. Which is what makers discovered some time ago - unless you think your VW is made of some special steel. Signature*The closest I ever got to a 4.0 in school was my blood alcohol content* Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> > Thanks for that - it's funny isn't it, that for that price I could get >> > a 3 or 4 year-old small hatchback, but would it last more than about [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > makers discovered some time ago - unless you think your VW is made of some > special steel. The VW was made by people who'd already discovered rust proofing... > > Not if the 'insides' are properly protected after repair. Which is > > what makers discovered some time ago - unless you think your VW is > > made of some special steel. > The VW was made by people who'd already discovered rust proofing... Oh yes? Never seen a rusty Beetle the same age as a Minor? They were at least as bad and more costly to repair... Signature*Prepositions are not words to end sentences with * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> > Not if the 'insides' are properly protected after repair. Which is >> > what makers discovered some time ago - unless you think your VW is >> > made of some special steel. > >> The VW was made by people who'd already discovered rust proofing... <falls about laughing> I was unfortunate enough to own a Beetle for a while. It had rust. Oh boy it had rust. Wings (of course), side panels, doors and most amusingly right through the bases of the door pillars. You could waggle them around if you wanted, and a big bump in the road would pop the doors open. MOTs didn't really bother about rust in those days. VWs rusted. Beetles rusted less than other VWs, slowbacks a bit worse than Beetles. All the rest were almost down to Vauxhall standards, which is why you don't see them around. >Oh yes? Never seen a rusty Beetle the same age as a Minor? They were at >least as bad and more costly to repair... Ever seen a 411 or a K70 /at all/? Or an early Passat, or for that matter an early anything-VW-watercooled? Up to about V-reg., maybe late T-reg VWs rusted as badly as anything, and much worse than most BL products. From V-reg onwards there was a real change, and they sorted out the rust problem to a much better degree than most other firms of the time - but that was a lot later than anything we're talking about here. SignatureAndy Breen ~ Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair) > > > Not if the 'insides' are properly protected after repair. Which is > > > what makers discovered some time ago - unless you think your VW is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Oh yes? Never seen a rusty Beetle the same age as a Minor? They were at > least as bad and more costly to repair... My sister owned a Beetle. Enough to put me off ever even thinking about it. The rust and the noise, crap drive and lack of go... > What have you been smoking? I drive a 16 year old Golf. It doesn't need > waxoyling every year, it starts no matter what, and I expect it to last > for the rest of time. Whereas a Morris Traveller will spend most of it's > time trying to turn into iron oxide. As do most cars after a certain number of years. With most cars, spares, especially body panels can start to become difficult to obtain after 20 years or so. Not so with a MM. If you were so inclined, you could build a completely new car from spares alone. Not that many would, because it would be very expensive, but it does show how comprehensive the spares situation is at present, and it's a situation that is likely to continue into the foreseeable future. Don't forget that most MM on the road are already over 30 years old. Nearly double the age of your Golf. Mike. > > What have you been smoking? I drive a 16 year old Golf. It doesn't need > > waxoyling every year, it starts no matter what, and I expect it to last [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Don't forget that most MM on the road are already over 30 years old. Nearly > double the age of your Golf. You can get a whole new MK1 Golf from south africa. Not bad for spares availability :). MK2s still have most spares available AFAIK. > You can get a whole new MK1 Golf from south africa. Not bad for spares > availability :). MK2s still have most spares available AFAIK. yes you can NOW - but what about 15+ years time? Unless the general public decide that the Golf is a classic and worth preserving, they'll just disappear. Now the moggie already IS a classic, and so won't disappear in 15 years time..... >> You can get a whole new MK1 Golf from south africa. Not bad for spares >> availability :). MK2s still have most spares available AFAIK. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > disappear. Now the moggie already IS a classic, and so won't disappear in > 15 years time..... You beat me to it, but I don't think the Golf will ever equal the status of a MM. In fact I can't think of any car built within the last 30 years that will. Many will no doubt have their dedicated bands of followers, but nothing on the scale of those intent on preserving the MM. One big advantage they have, is that they are relatively cheap to buy and maintain as classics. Maybe an even more important point in their favour, is that they are british, and with a small upgrade on the brakes, they are very practical classics for everyday use. Quite capable of keeping up with modern traffic flows. BTW, strictly speaking, the term Moggie refers to a Morgan. Their owners were using it long before it was appropriated and applied to Morris Minors. Just a bit of useless information. :-) Mike. >>> You can get a whole new MK1 Golf from south africa. Not bad for spares >>> availability :). MK2s still have most spares available AFAIK. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >a MM. >In fact I can't think of any car built within the last 30 years that will. The Mini. Admittedly it wasn't designed within the last 30 years, but it was built! SignatureRegards, Chris (Please take out my car to reply by email) ---1967 Riley Elf----1978 Mini 1000----1965 Hillman Minx--- ---1957 Standard 8---1979 Ford Capri---1969 Morris Minor--- ---1966 Triumph Herald Estate--1972 Mini Clubman estate --- ********** Please don't email in HTML! ********** > I'm looking for advice on getting a classic car for everyday use. > The factors are these: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > year and patching up the underseal etc etc) is it reasonable to expect a > semi/fully restored Traveller to last another 20 years? Only if you get a mint one now. SignatureConor, Same sh.t, different day. >> I'm looking for advice on getting a classic car for everyday use. >> The factors are these: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> > Only if you get a mint one now. I'm looking at getting one as near mint as I can...... > I'm looking at getting one as near mint as I can...... Needs to be. My old mans has had all the underside panels replaced in the last few years and they're not looking too great again. On the upside, at least you're not one of these dreamers who'll think they'll get a decent one for £1k. SignatureConor, Same sh.t, different day. > My old mans has had all the underside panels replaced in > the last few years and they're not looking too great again. Perhaps if they'd been replaced properly...? > > My old mans has had all the underside panels replaced in > > the last few years and they're not looking too great again. > > Perhaps if they'd been replaced properly...? They were...a very good job. Sadly the previous owner let his daughter have the car for a while. As you can probably guess, she didn't follow required maintenance. SignatureConor, Same sh.t, different day. > > > My old mans has had all the underside panels replaced in > > > the last few years and they're not looking too great again. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > have the car for a while. As you can probably guess, she didn't follow > required maintenance. Meaning that the job was not done correctly..... With modern professional refinishing products [1] there is really no need for a repaired vehicle to rot out were it has been repaid and as part of any restoration un damaged and un repaired areas can also be dealt with similar products. [1] meaning products that have been available for over ten years. > Needs to be. My old mans has had all the underside panels replaced in > the last few years and they're not looking too great again. Sounds like they weren't properly protected after fitting - common with some 'restoration' work. My brother's Stag had lots of new panels and a superb paint finish. But only on the outside... Signature*What happens if you get scared half to death twice? * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. > > I'm looking at getting one as near mint as I can...... > > > Needs to be. My old mans has had all the underside panels replaced in > the last few years and they're not looking too great again. Hmm, that says more about the people who did the work than the panels / vehicle, as others have said, it sounds like a couple of half-witted grease monkeys did the work... The real killer on any Minor Traveller is the state of the wood, even if you do the work yourself, to replace all the wood is going to cost real money. > The real killer on any Minor Traveller is the state of the wood, even > if you do the work yourself, to replace all the wood is going to cost > real money. Just as a matterof interest, what sort of wood did Travellers use? I assume it was probably ash, but does anyone know for sure? FWIW I have always reckoned the Traveller was the nicest handling member of the Minor family. One more thing about them - not from personal experience, you understand - if you have one of those roof racks that clamp onto the guttering, don't overtighten the clamps or you'll pull the gutters off. Ron Robinson >Just as a matterof interest, what sort of wood did Travellers use? I assume >it was probably ash, but does anyone know for sure? Ash - it's always ash, even for '30s coach built car bodies, not just BL's external woodies. New Traveller wood kits are fairly cheap, compared to something like an MG T-series (or earlier) kit, even though they're actualy fussier to make. You can be quite slapdash for fit on framing a coachbuilt body, as the cladding goes over the timber. On a woodie you don't get much option to adjust anything. The shaping of a Moggie is much more complex than a Mini too, particularly the tumblehome. The big problem with fixing Moggie Travellers IMHE is the terrible rust behind the wood. By the time the wood finally gets replaced, there's a strip of lace a couple of inches wide behind, owing to the trapped damp. >>>My question is, given good care and attention, (ie waxoiling chassis >>>every year and patching up the underseal etc etc) is it reasonable to >>>expect a semi/fully restored Traveller to last another 20 years? >> >>Only if you get a mint one now. > I'm looking at getting one as near mint as I can...... Consider it essential that you have it looked at by someone who knows the cars inside out. There are plenty of botched Minors about and for the money you're talking about, you could lose a lot if you get one that hasn't been restored properly. I'd suggest joining the owners club before buying one. >>>>My question is, given good care and attention, (ie waxoiling chassis >>>>every year and patching up the underseal etc etc) is it reasonable to [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > hasn't been restored properly. I'd suggest joining the owners club > before buying one. Thanks - yes I've put joining the owners club in the diary - I did run an MG Midget as my everyday transport a few years ago so I'm not entirely new.......:-) >>Consider it essential that you have it looked at by someone who knows >>the cars inside out. There are plenty of botched Minors about and for >>the money you're talking about, you could lose a lot if you get one that >>hasn't been restored properly. I'd suggest joining the owners club >>before buying one. > Thanks - yes I've put joining the owners club in the diary - I did run an MG > Midget as my everyday transport a few years ago so I'm not entirely > new.......:-) Sorry, that bit hadn't registered. The critical thing, apart fom the timber, is knowing what the underside of the sills should look like. Botched Minors often have everything hidden behind welded on plates that do little for the structural integrity, but hide the rust at MOT time. If the sills have been replaced properly, it'll show. Incidentally, for an everyday Minor, I wouldn't see fibre-glass wings as a disadvantage as long as they were good quality. Though they'd knock a bit off the value. Not sure if everyone else would agree with me on that one... > My question is, given good care and attention, (ie waxoiling chassis > every year and patching up the underseal etc etc) is it reasonable to > expect a semi/fully restored Traveller to last another 20 years? It's lasted this long, with less careful protection... : > My question is, given good care and attention, (ie waxoiling chassis : > every year and patching up the underseal etc etc) is it reasonable to : > expect a semi/fully restored Traveller to last another 20 years? : : It's lasted this long, with less careful protection... Except that it has needed full restoration ... Ian >: It's lasted this long, with less careful protection... > Except that it has needed full restoration ... OK, so restore it again in another 30 years... : >: It's lasted this long, with less careful protection... : : > Except that it has needed full restoration ... : : OK, so restore it again in another 30 years... Not possible. Unless "restoration" means "replacing everything" then there /will/ be parts of the car now which are worse than they were when it was built. Twenty years the first time, ten the next, five after that ... Not that I'm knocking the daily use of classics (DS and 2CV currently on the go, Rebel as backup, Herald nearing completion) but I think it's unrealistic to expect a "restored" car to last anything like as long as a new one. Ian > I'm looking for advice on getting a classic car for everyday use. > The factors are these: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > year and patching up the underseal etc etc) is it reasonable to expect a > semi/fully restored Traveller to last another 20 years? No sense of adventure. You could get something quite silly, but still practical for that kind of cash..... How about a CX Turbo Familiale (spelling?) SignatureSteve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark - Fiat Marea 20v HLX - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # > How about a CX Turbo Familiale (spelling?) They only put the petrol turbo into the saloon, not the Safari (5-seat) or Familiale (7-seat). Unfortunately. Mind you, there's a few been built - I've driven one, built from new by a dealer, for the then Keeper of the Queen's Pictures... > > How about a CX Turbo Familiale (spelling?) > > They only put the petrol turbo into the saloon, not the Safari (5-seat) or > Familiale (7-seat). > > Unfortunately. Ahhh, didn't know that, 'cos I've seen a couple around. > Mind you, there's a few been built - I've driven one, built from new by a > dealer, for the then Keeper of the Queen's Pictures... Heh. I'd love something really stupid like that. SignatureSteve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark - Fiat Marea 20v HLX - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # >> > How about a CX Turbo Familiale (spelling?) >> They only put the petrol turbo into the saloon, not the Safari >> (5-seat) or Familiale (7-seat). >> >> Unfortunately. > Ahhh, didn't know that, 'cos I've seen a couple around. They DID put the Turbo Diseasel into the Saf/Fam, though... > >> > How about a CX Turbo Familiale (spelling?) > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > They DID put the Turbo Diseasel into the Saf/Fam, though... That's just a bit too perverted, even for me. SignatureSteve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark - Fiat Marea 20v HLX - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Adrian <toomany2cvs@gmail.com> saying something like: >Mind you, there's a few been built - I've driven one, built from new by a >dealer, for the then Keeper of the Queen's Pictures... Not Blunt, was it? SignatureDave SE6a >>Mind you, there's a few been built - I've driven one, built from new >>by a dealer, for the then Keeper of the Queen's Pictures... > Not Blunt, was it? Bit more recent... >> I'm looking for advice on getting a classic car for everyday use. >> The factors are these: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > No sense of adventure. Not too sure about that - he hasn't said anything about upgrading the brakes... ;-) Ron Robinson > I'm looking for advice on getting a classic car for everyday use. > The factors are these: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > year and patching up the underseal etc etc) is it reasonable to expect a > semi/fully restored Traveller to last another 20 years? Certainly. There is no reason why a MM can't be kept on the road indefinitly. AFAIA there is nothing on a MM that can't be replaced or repaired, and it's likely to continue that way. Have a look at Charlie Ware's site. http://www.morrisminor.org.uk/ He got a few Travellers for sale. Not the cheapest Co to deal with, but a browse of his site will give you a good idea of just how practical a MM for everyday motoring. Mike. > My question is, given good care and attention, (ie waxoiling chassis every > year and patching up the underseal etc etc) is it reasonable to expect a > semi/fully restored Traveller to last another 20 years? Theoretically, you can keep a Traveller going indefinitely. Most parts bolt together, rather than being welded like more modern cars, so replacements are usually within the scope of an owner with a modest tool kit. All parts are available from Charlie Ware. He has a factory in Sri Lanka which can provide spares sufficient to assemble a complete car from scratch, though at about six times the cost of a mint restored model. But as well as looking after the underneath, you really have to look after the timber. It is structural on the Traveller, so any rot is an MOT failure, and replacing it is expensive. So put waterproofing and varnish monitoring to your list of must dos. If you are prepared to reduce the 20 year life expectancy, there are other models you might think about, and on your budget you could buy two or three and restore the spares while the current one is on the road... The Mini Countryman, the A40 and the Herald Estate can all carry dogs and won't frighten the insurers. Jim > If you are prepared to reduce the 20 year life expectancy, there are other > models you might think about, and on your budget you could buy two or > three and restore the spares Unfortunately that's not an option due to lack of space and garage...... >If you are prepared to reduce the 20 year life expectancy, there are other >models you might think about, and on your budget you could buy two or three >and restore the spares while the current one is on the road... The Mini >Countryman, the A40 and the Herald Estate can all carry dogs and won't >frighten the insurers. A40 only if you can find a Countryman, and not a big boot space with the seats up. Parts are hard to find. Stick with the Moggy. Mini Countryman is also quite rare although there are enough Clubman estates about. Mini prices are rising towards Minor levels now. SignatureRegards, Chris (Please take out my car to reply by email) ---1967 Riley Elf----1978 Mini 1000----1965 Hillman Minx--- ---1957 Standard 8---1979 Ford Capri---1969 Morris Minor--- ---1966 Triumph Herald Estate--1972 Mini Clubman estate --- ********** Please don't email in HTML! ********** : is it reasonable to expect a : semi/fully restored Traveller to last another 20 years? Definitely not. Even a brand new one could not have been expected to last anything like that long, and unless you buy one on which absolutely everything has been replaced lots of it will already be down the road to disintegration. If you keep it in a heated garage and only use it occasionally then you'll be OK, but as a regular driver it will deteriorate and will need regular repair, sometime major. Still more fun than something modern, though. Ian > : is it reasonable to expect a > : semi/fully restored Traveller to last another 20 years? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Ian Moggys were looking long in the tooth when they stopped making them in 1971, a good design back in the fifties they were nothing special by the sixties. If you want to be different then why not buy a Green Goddess? There are several hundred for sale from about £2,000. They're already 50 years old, many with only a few thousand miles on the clock, no problems with rust, so, so easy to work on, and plenty of room for a dog too, oh and no MOT or tax needed either. I beleive there are 600 tons of spares too. Steve the grease > If you want to be different then why not buy a Green > Goddess? There are several hundred for sale from about £2,000. They're > already 50 years old, many with only a few thousand miles on the clock, > no problems with rust, so, so easy to work on, and plenty of room for a > dog too, oh and no MOT or tax needed either. I beleive there are 600 > tons of spares too. yes, and 10 miles to the gallon! Good for pressure washing the patio though..... (Fireman's strike 1978 - I /was/ that soldier......) R L driver <nospam4stevetee@onetel.net> realised it was Fri, 19 May 2006 19:44:08 +0100 and decided it was time to write: >If you want to be different then why not buy a Green >Goddess? There are several hundred for sale from about £2,000. They're >already 50 years old, many with only a few thousand miles on the clock, >no problems with rust, Can have some rot though, as most of the body is wood. >so, so easy to work on, and plenty of room for a dog too, If it didn't, the dog could walk alongside, as top speed is only about 50Mph. >oh and no MOT or tax needed either. No MOT or tax is good, since they have 5 Litre petrol engines, which do like to drink a lot of precious liquid. >I beleive there are 600 tons of spares too. Very reassuring. SignatureY. 'All parts falling off of this car are of the highest quality British manufacture' |
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