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Car Forum / UK Car Forums / Driving (UK group) / January 2009Funeral Processions
I will be in the limo on a funeral procession on Tuesday next week and Im wondering just how many over vehicles will break up the procession en route from the church to the crem. I know that many people who post/ read here will have the respect that it deserves but perhaps there should be something a bit more formal. I cant remember having read anything about funerals in the HC but maybe it warrants a mention. Just a thought. McKevvy >I will be in the limo on a funeral procession on Tuesday next week and >Im wondering just how many over vehicles will break up the procession >en route from the church to the crem. I know that many people who post/ >read here will have the respect that it deserves but perhaps there >should be something a bit more formal. I cant remember having read >anything about funerals in the HC but maybe it warrants a mention. most people will not try and get between the limos, but they may not realise about any normal cars behind. There's usually somebody with the decency to let the procession out too, even though it means being stuck.  SignatureBMW >>I will be in the limo on a funeral procession on Tuesday next week and >>Im wondering just how many over vehicles will break up the procession [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the decency to let the procession out too, even though it means being > stuck. After reading this thread there can't be many, sadly. Decency? That must be an olde worlde notion. >After reading this thread there can't be many, I haven't read the thread yet but don't confuse the people in this ng with a cross section of the community. SignatureBMW >>> I will be in the limo on a funeral procession on Tuesday next week and >>> Im wondering just how many over vehicles will break up the procession [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > After reading this thread there can't be many, sadly. > Decency? That must be an olde worlde notion. There have been some real w.nkers responding here. They've been held up for what, 2 minutes maybe and are moaning like children. >>>> I will be in the limo on a funeral procession on Tuesday next week and >>>> Im wondering just how many over vehicles will break up the procession [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > There have been some real w.nkers responding here. They've been held up > for what, 2 minutes maybe and are moaning like children. Agreed, civilised societies respect others wishes and common coutesy costs nothing. Gonad > > There have been some real w.nkers responding here. They've been held > > up for what, 2 minutes maybe and are moaning like children. > Agreed, civilised societies respect others wishes and common coutesy > costs nothing. True. Now if only all would be so courteous to that little old lady with her shopping waiting to cross the road in the freezing rain... Signature*How's my driving? Call 999* Dave Plowman dave@davesound.co.uk London SW 12 >> Agreed, civilised societies respect others wishes and common coutesy >> costs nothing. > >True. Now if only all would be so courteous to that little old lady with >her shopping waiting to cross the road in the freezing rain... very true. Why not always stop (if its safe to do so) when you see any infirm person or one escorting children waiting to cross? That's what I do, but there's the slightly difficult area of giving any signal to cross or not, as it can be interpreted as "its safe to cross". SignatureBMW >> > There have been some real w.nkers responding here. They've been held >> > up for what, 2 minutes maybe and are moaning like children. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > True. Now if only all would be so courteous to that little old lady with > her shopping waiting to cross the road in the freezing rain... Depends where she is trying to cross - it would be very easy to aid her death if no regard is paid to road layout and traffic. SignatureMrBitsy Rover 75 CDTi >>I will be in the limo on a funeral procession on Tuesday next week and >>Im wondering just how many over vehicles will break up the procession [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > most people will not try and get between the limos, but they may not > realise about any normal cars behind. They have an excellent idea in the USA; all the normal cars in the cortege have little orange flags on their radio aerials with the lettering "Funeral Procession" on them. Signature"Please try to understand, the one you call Messiah is a lie." [email me at huge {at} huge (dot) org <dot> uk] In article <873fd73b-785f-429f-81dd-a65863cb996f@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, > I will be in the limo on a funeral procession on Tuesday next week and > Im wondering just how many over vehicles will break up the procession [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > anything about funerals in the HC but maybe it warrants a mention. > Just a thought. Many motorists have no respect for the living other than themselves - so not quite sure why you expect them to respect the dead? Signature*How do they get the deer to cross at that yellow road sign? Dave Plowman dave@davesound.co.uk London SW 12 > In article ><873fd73b-785f-429f-81dd-a65863cb996f@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Many motorists have no respect for the living other than themselves - so > not quite sure why you expect them to respect the dead? Duhg??? Is that you? Signature"Please try to understand, the one you call Messiah is a lie." [email me at huge {at} huge (dot) org <dot> uk] >I will be in the limo on a funeral procession on Tuesday next week and > Im wondering just how many over vehicles will break up the procession [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > anything about funerals in the HC but maybe it warrants a mention. > Just a thought. My mum's procession was interupted by a lollypop woman at a zebra crossing. She became visibly narked when pedestrians on both sides of the road failed to cross... SteveTBM > I will be in the limo on a funeral procession on Tuesday next week and > Im wondering just how many over vehicles will break up the procession > en route from the church to the crem. If it's in the west of Scotland, very, very few indeed. I've seen all three lanes of the M8 reduced to 40mph because nobody would overtake a funeral in the slow lane. I think it's a nice way to express respect, sympathy and fellow feeling to the bereaved. Ian >> I will be in the limo on a funeral procession on Tuesday next week and >> Im wondering just how many over vehicles will break up the procession [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > funeral in the slow lane. I think it's a nice way to express respect, > sympathy and fellow feeling to the bereaved. Life goes on. You're a long time dead, so there's no need to hold up the rest of us when life is so short. They should get a move on. Silk wrote : > Life goes on. You're a long time dead, so there's no need to hold up the rest > of us when life is so short. They should get a move on. Remember, Speed Kills :-) SignatureRegards, Harry (M1BYT) (L) http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk > Silk wrote : >> Life goes on. You're a long time dead, so there's no need to hold up >> the rest of us when life is so short. They should get a move on. > > Remember, Speed Kills :-) Not if you're already dead. ;-) "Harry Bloomfield" <harry.m1byt@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message news:mn.a4737d91ef7cbcb3.86812@.tiscali.co.uk... > Silk wrote : >> Life goes on. You're a long time dead, so there's no need to hold up the >> rest of us when life is so short. They should get a move on. > > Remember, Speed Kills :-) Oh God, a hobby class licence! It's "Inappropriate Speed Can Kill" to be precise. > "Harry Bloomfield" <harry.m1byt@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message > news:mn.a4737d91ef7cbcb3.86812@.tiscali.co.uk... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Oh God, a hobby class licence! It's "Inappropriate Speed Can Kill" to be > precise. I think he was being ironic. The M1 is simply "moronic". > "Harry Bloomfield" <harry.m1byt@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message > news:mn.a4737d91ef7cbcb3.86812@.tiscali.co.uk... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Oh God, a hobby class licence! Can you keep your sad, pitiful, pointless nonsense in the amateur radio groups where they can be ignored? Signature"Please try to understand, the one you call Messiah is a lie." [email me at huge {at} huge (dot) org <dot> uk] In article <7ffc217b-e928-4f0e-818e-56948c836bc7 @d36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, ubergeekian@googlemail.com says... > > I will be in the limo on a funeral procession on Tuesday next week and > > Im wondering just how many over vehicles will break up the procession [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Ian Sadly not always the case. A funeral procession I was in was moving off and turning left on to a main road, and even with the Funeral Director standing there guiding them out some arsehole decided he was going to exercise his right of way. SignatureHalmyre That's you that is. > In article <7ffc217b-e928-4f0e-818e-56948c836bc7 > @d36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, ubergeek...@googlemail.com says... [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > funeral in the slow lane. I think it's a nice way to express respect, > > sympathy and fellow feeling to the bereaved. > Sadly not always the case. A funeral procession I was in was moving off and > turning left on to a main road, and even with the Funeral Director standing > there guiding them out some arsehole decided he was going to exercise his > right of way. Ah well, there are always a few arseholes, aren't there? As another response to my posting has already shown. Ian >I will be in the limo on a funeral procession on Tuesday next week and > Im wondering just how many over vehicles will break up the procession [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > anything about funerals in the HC but maybe it warrants a mention. > Just a thought. Another thought. Why is it disrespectful to overtake a funeral procession? Mike. > Another thought. > Why is it disrespectful to overtake a funeral procession? It's not. The respect people show at funerals is inversely proportional to the respect shown to them while they were alive. >> Another thought. >> Why is it disrespectful to overtake a funeral procession? > > It's not. The respect people show at funerals is inversely proportional to > the respect shown to them while they were alive. Maybe so, but death ia fate that awaits us all.. I see no reason why the death of a total stranger should impinge on the lives of those who happen across their funeral procession. We can all think smpathetically for their family and friends etc, but does that have to be expressed by not overtaking the funeral procession, if one needs to keep an appointment or get somewhere at a certain time? I don't really see the problem. How does overtaking affect the grief of those in the procession? Or, more to the point, why should it? Maybe I'm an oddball, but I don't really understand the meaning of 'respect for the dead' Mike. >>> Another thought. >>> Why is it disrespectful to overtake a funeral procession? [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Maybe I'm an oddball, but I don't really understand the meaning of > 'respect for the dead' Graveyards are for the living, not the dead. >>>> Another thought. >>>> Why is it disrespectful to overtake a funeral procession? [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Graveyards are for the living, not the dead. Exactly - and a chronic waste of land. Cremation should be compulsory. The last thing I want, after I'm gone, is for members of my family to be visiting a miserable, dreary, graveyard. I'm an atheist - I don't want any religion at my funeral, I want to be cremated and my ashes scattered and I don't want my family doing anything more than looking at the occasional photo! Ret. >>>>> Another thought. >>>>> Why is it disrespectful to overtake a funeral procession? [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Ret. Seconded. Gonad >>>>>> Another thought. >>>>>> Why is it disrespectful to overtake a funeral procession? [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Gonad Thirded, except the photo bit. ;-) >>> I'm an atheist - I don't want any religion at my funeral, I want to be >>> cremated and my ashes scattered and I don't want my family doing [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Thirded, except the photo bit. ;-) me too SignatureBMW >>>>>> Another thought. >>>>>> Why is it disrespectful to overtake a funeral procession? [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Gonad Good idea, but cremation could see difficulties in the future when CO2 emissions are concerned. Does cremation contribute to global warming? That will be taxed next. No wonder energy companies know who to go for. > Good idea, but cremation could see difficulties in the future when CO2 > emissions are concerned. Does cremation contribute to global warming? > That will be taxed next. No wonder energy companies know who to go > for. I suppose it would mean fat people would be charged more. >>>>>>> Another thought. >>>>>>> Why is it disrespectful to overtake a funeral procession? [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > That will be taxed next. No wonder energy companies know who to go > for. There's an idea. Create electricity generating stations that can also cremate, using the bodies as a secondary fuel. Two birds with one stone. Mike. > There's an idea. > Create electricity generating stations that can also cremate, using the > bodies as a secondary fuel. > Two birds with one stone. This has already been done. Think Hitler. Say no more. >>>>>> Another thought. >>>>>> Why is it disrespectful to overtake a funeral procession? [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Seconded. You want A, so anybody who wants B is wrong? SignatureMrBitsy Rover 75 CDTi >>> I'm an atheist - I don't want any religion at my funeral, I want to be >>> cremated and my ashes scattered and I don't want my family doing anything [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >You want A, so anybody who wants B is wrong? I think the underlying question is:- Is religion something made up all over the world in different forms to assuage our fear of death and is then manipulated by those in power to exert control and pacify - "the opium of the people" - (and engender hatred of non or different believers) and is indoctrinated into the gullible at an early age. And that the world was made a few thousand years ago using intelligent design and somehow the people in England happen to be the ones who got the correct version of events. or It isn't. Of course the wider and deeper matter of the existence of some "higher force" unconstrained by superstitions is more open to debate. Many people who are atheists at the level of religion are agnostic on the question of "god", if you see what I mean. SignatureBMW > I think the underlying question is:- > Is religion something made up all over the world in different forms to > assuage our fear of death and is then manipulated by those in power to > exert control and pacify - "the opium of the people" - (and engender > hatred of non or different believers) and is indoctrinated into the > gullible at an early age. That's about it. > And that the world was made a few thousand years ago using intelligent > design and somehow the people in England happen to be the ones who got > the correct version of events. If you changed UK for US you'd be closer. Not so many take the bible literally in the UK. Apart from the bits that suits them to, obviously. Signature*How about "never"? Is "never" good for you? Dave Plowman dave@davesound.co.uk London SW 12 >> And that the world was made a few thousand years ago using intelligent >> design and somehow the people in England happen to be the ones who got >> the correct version of events. > >If you changed UK for US you'd be closer. Not so many take the bible >literally in the UK. Apart from the bits that suits them to, obviously. Yes, I should have said "where one is" when I said England, New England would have been better! Sadly intelligent design and creationism have a toehold here and in Australia (that I know of) but not the 50% it does in US, its hard to believe the US is supposed to be the most advanced country in the world. SignatureBMW >>> And that the world was made a few thousand years ago using >>> intelligent design and somehow the people in England happen to be [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > believe the US is supposed to be the most advanced country in the > world. It's not, it only has the most money. >but not the 50% it does in US, its hard to >> believe the US is supposed to be the most advanced country in the >> world. > >It's not, it only has the most money. which doesn't seem to result in good infrastructure or lack of poverty, odd place. SignatureBMW >> but not the 50% it does in US, its hard to >>> believe the US is supposed to be the most advanced country in the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > which doesn't seem to result in good infrastructure or lack of > poverty, odd place. Indeed. I believe it's called "market forces". >> which doesn't seem to result in good infrastructure or lack of >> poverty, odd place. > >Indeed. I believe it's called "market forces". or "unbridled capitalism" SignatureBMW >>>> I'm an atheist - I don't want any religion at my funeral, I want to be >>>> cremated and my ashes scattered and I don't want my family doing [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I think the underlying question is:- <snip> I am an atheist, but I can imagine awful grief if my wife or sons died. I also can sympathise deeply with those in a funeral procession, who will be feeling similar pain. Try to be less narrow minded, more sympathetic towards others and have a little more respect for other views. SignatureMrBitsy Rover 75 CDTi >I am an atheist, but I can imagine awful grief if my wife or sons died. I >also can sympathise deeply with those in a funeral procession, who will be >feeling similar pain. so can I, its blindingly obvious from my posts, why do you think otherwise? >Try to be less narrow minded, more sympathetic towards others and have a >little more respect for other views. Right, you're throwing insults about now, explain to me why expressing the reasons why god probably does not exist is narrow minded? And why do you draw the absurd conclusion I have no sympathy with bereaved people? There is no reason to adopt the pathetic position that religion cannot be discussed because it might offend the religious. SignatureBMW >>I am an atheist, but I can imagine awful grief if my wife or sons died. >>I also can sympathise deeply with those in a funeral procession, who [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > There is no reason to adopt the pathetic position that religion cannot > be discussed because it might offend the religious. "I'm an atheist. I have respect for others and act morally because I want to, not because I'm afraid of the Sky Fairy sending me to Hell for All Eternity.' >>>>> I'm an atheist - I don't want any religion at my funeral, I want to be >>>>> cremated and my ashes scattered and I don't want my family doing [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > also can sympathise deeply with those in a funeral procession, who will be > feeling similar pain. When my mother died at 88 a few years ago, my brother and I gave her a proper funeral with all the trimmings, because that is what she wanted. Neither of us felt pain or were overcome by grief. We'd seen the day coming for 2 or 3 years, so there was no shock when it finally happened. Towards the end her mind was going, and she obviously wasn't happy about that. In her more lucid moments she had accepted it herself, and was even looking forward to the day when it would all be over. After the funeral we took the dozen or so of her 'mourner' friends to a nearby restaurant for a light meal and chat. Nothing dreary. No one was particularly depressed. On the whole it was quite a convivial party. Afterwards we all went home, and that was that. As I see it, funerals don't allways have to be unhappy affairs, particularly those of relatives or friends who have simply died of old age. > Try to be less narrow minded, more sympathetic towards others and have a > little more respect for other views. A patronising comment. Death is a natural consequence that happens to us all, and not all of us regard it with doom and gloom. That doesn't mean we're all unsympathetic, just more realistic in in our attidudes to the inevitable. Premature deaths are not the same. Mike. . > After the funeral we took the dozen or so of her 'mourner' friends to a > nearby restaurant for a light meal and chat. Nothing dreary. No one was > particularly depressed. On the whole it was quite a convivial party. > Afterwards we all went home, and that was that. As I see it, funerals > don't allways have to be unhappy affairs, particularly those of > relatives or friends who have simply died of old age. I've told my lot that if they don't have a good time and go away smiling I'll haunt 'em. And as far as remains go, they can use what they can then barbeque the rest. I'm just dysfunctional meat at that point - although some would say that process has already started :-( >> After the funeral we took the dozen or so of her 'mourner' friends to a >> nearby restaurant for a light meal and chat. Nothing dreary. No one was [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > rest. I'm just dysfunctional meat at that point - although some would say > that process has already started :-( As I've said elsewhere I've donated my body to medical research, so my wife and/or family wont have to pay for anything. If they want to have a get together or party, it's up to them. Maybe I should make specific bequest in my will to pay for it, with a likeness of myself at the head of the table. On second thoughts maybe not. That would be too macabre even for my sense of humour. Mike. >As I see it, funerals don't allways have to be unhappy affairs, particularly >those of relatives or friends who have simply died of old age. for those who are Christian, logically they shouldn't. I have been to a few wakes which were very much celebrations of the life. SignatureBMW >>>>>>> Another thought. >>>>>>> Why is it disrespectful to overtake a funeral procession? [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > You want A, so anybody who wants B is wrong? It's not a question of what I want - it's what is sensible. Don't you think that it is extreme selfishness to want to occupy a patch of valuable land after you are dead? Why people want to think of their loved ones buried underground in a cold dismal graveyard, slowly rotting, putrefying and stinking, when they could have them cremated and have their ashes doing something useful by returning nutrients to the earth, I just don't know. Ret. >It's not a question of what I want - it's what is sensible. Don't you think >that it is extreme selfishness to want to occupy a patch of valuable land >after you are dead? Why people want to think of their loved ones buried >underground in a cold dismal graveyard, slowly rotting, putrefying and >stinking, when they could have them cremated and have their ashes doing >something useful by returning nutrients to the earth, I just don't know. because its traditional. In any case fewer and fewer do it. SignatureBMW >>It's not a question of what I want - it's what is sensible. Don't you >>think [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > because its traditional. In any case fewer and fewer do it. What use would you like this land put to - another golf course, road or office? SignatureMrBitsy Rover 75 CDTi > "BMW Driver (male)" <u_d_machine@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message >>> after you are dead? Why people want to think of their loved ones buried [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > What use would you like this land put to - another golf course, road or > office? Or advanced driving school or skidpan facility? Chris >> because its traditional. In any case fewer and fewer do it. >What use would you like this land put to - another golf course, road or >office? Why are you asking me? Land is generally valuable in towns, so I dont see the point in the question anyway. SignatureBMW >>> because its traditional. In any case fewer and fewer do it. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Why are you asking me? > Land is generally valuable in towns, Graveyards are really important wildlife habitats. They are also places for the bereaved to sit in peace and reflect. My mum and dad were cremated and their ashes scattered in the peaceful grounds - I suppose these grounds take up valuable space too? SignatureMrBitsy Rover 75 CDTi >> Why are you asking me? >> Land is generally valuable in towns, > >Graveyards are really important wildlife habitats. they can be. >They are also places for >the bereaved to sit in peace and reflect. true >My mum and dad were cremated and >their ashes scattered in the peaceful grounds - I suppose these grounds take >up valuable space too? the thing is, why are you asking me? Or did you just happen to follow up to my post? I don't think the places you scatter ashes at the crematorium are controversial at all. SignatureBMW >>> It's not a question of what I want - it's what is sensible. Don't >>> you think [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > What use would you like this land put to - another golf course, road > or office? Whatever is more useful than the existing 'dead centre' of town. Many churches have inadequate provision for car parking (although this problem is lessening as fewer and fewer people attend church any more). Ret. >Whatever is more useful than the existing 'dead centre' of town. Many >churches have inadequate provision for car parking (although this problem is >lessening as fewer and fewer people attend church any more). If I was a Christian I would walk to church, they tend to be local, in the country many footpaths lead to a church. SignatureBMW >>>>>>>> Another thought. >>>>>>>> Why is it disrespectful to overtake a funeral procession? [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > doing something useful by returning nutrients to the earth, I just don't > know. You don't have to know anything, just have respect for others wishes. SignatureMrBitsy Rover 75 CDTi >It's not a question of what I want - it's what is sensible. Don't you think >that it is extreme selfishness to want to occupy a patch of valuable land >after you are dead? In our village we have three graveyards the oldest one closed in 1799. They are for many people a source of peace, calm, and reflection. > Why people want to think of their loved ones buried >underground in a cold dismal graveyard, slowly rotting, putrefying and >stinking, These are the normal, natural consequences of death. > when they could have them cremated and have their ashes doing >something useful by returning nutrients to the earth, Who told you that then ? The nutrients go up the spout to polute the atmosphere having been burnt and turned into poisons such as dioxins. What is returned to the family as "Ashes" are basically incompletely (to save gas) burnt bones ground up in a ball mill (or "Cremulator"). >I just don't know. Buy yourself a grave. You know you want one. Treat Yourself. You can't take it with you. :-)) Derek >>It's not a question of what I want - it's what is sensible. Don't you think >>that it is extreme selfishness to want to occupy a patch of valuable land >>after you are dead? > >In our village we have three graveyards the oldest one closed in 1799. >They are for many people a source of peace, calm, and reflection. I think village graveyards round a church are a very different thing from the vast municipal cemeteries in cities, although some of the older ones have their fans. The thing is some people want somewhere that remains a memorial to the dead person, quite understandable. SignatureBMW >>> It's not a question of what I want - it's what is sensible. Don't >>> you think that it is extreme selfishness to want to occupy a patch [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > The thing is some people want somewhere that remains a memorial to the > dead person, quite understandable. What's wrong with a newly planted tree in your own garden? Ret. >> The thing is some people want somewhere that remains a memorial to the >> dead person, quite understandable. > >What's wrong with a newly planted tree in your own garden? I think the problem there is people move and trees often die. I would go for a memorial bench somewhere. SignatureBMW >>> The thing is some people want somewhere that remains a memorial to the >>> dead person, quite understandable. >> What's wrong with a newly planted tree in your own garden? > > I think the problem there is people move and trees often die. I would > go for a memorial bench somewhere. From my experience, it seems that women tend to go more for keeping an urn of ashes than men. Keeping ashes of a dead person is kind of creepy to me. Gonad >> I think the problem there is people move and trees often die. I would >> go for a memorial bench somewhere. > > From my experience, it seems that women tend to go more for keeping >an urn of ashes than men. scary isn't it, I suggest sleeping with one eye open :-) >Keeping ashes of a dead person is kind of creepy to me. I suppose it is, I would scatter them in a favourite place, probably. If you follow the idea that we are all reborn in a Buddhist sort of way, you need you body to rejoin the earth to become part of some living thing again so a pyramid, for instance, would be the worst idea. SignatureBMW >>> I think the problem there is people move and trees often die. I would >>> go for a memorial bench somewhere. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > living thing again so a pyramid, for instance, would be the worst > idea. The body or the soul?....... or both? Gonad >> I suppose it is, I would scatter them in a favourite place, probably. >> If you follow the idea that we are all reborn in a Buddhist sort of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >The body or the soul?....... or both? Dont quote me but i think the buddhists don't make a seperation. SignatureBMW >> Keeping ashes of a dead person is kind of creepy to me. > > I suppose it is, I would scatter them in a favourite place, probably. The ashes are a mixture of all kinds of things and other people. Not the quaint thing people excpect. But if they don't know, I guess they can hold on to them as a symbol of rememberance. Chris >> It's not a question of what I want - it's what is sensible. Don't >> you think that it is extreme selfishness to want to occupy a patch [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Treat Yourself. You can't take it with you. :-)) LOL!! Actually I was well aware of what goes on in Crematoria because I once had a guided tour of one before I retired. What made me smile was how much ash and detritus was left in the ovens and cremulator after use. Certainly there was no real attempt made (at least in the crematorium I visited) to effectively clean out the ovens and cremulator after each use. This means, of course, that when you get your little plastic urn of ashes, a proportion of the contents will be the remains of others and not your loved one! Ret. > This means, of course, that when you get your little >plastic urn of ashes, a proportion of the contents will be the remains of >others and not your loved one! well yes. Just keep quiet about it. My wife has the ashes of her favourite cats, do the cat crematoria do one at a time? But its a more tasteful momento than having them stuffed, I would have been happy with a photo. SignatureBMW >> This means, of course, that when you get your little >>plastic urn of ashes, a proportion of the contents will be the remains of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >favourite cats, do the cat crematoria do one at a time? But its a more >tasteful momento than having them stuffed, "Do you want them mounted" No, no, just staple them on their perch together side by side. < What makes me think of Gordon Brown and Mantlebum ??? > Derek >No, no, just staple them on their perch together side by side. > >< What makes me think of Gordon Brown and Mantlebum ??? > what a horrible thought. SignatureBMW >>>>>>> Another thought. >>>>>>> Why is it disrespectful to overtake a funeral procession? [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > You want A, so anybody who wants B is wrong? No, I just happen to agree with 'Ret', each to their own etc. Gonad > You want A, so anybody who wants B is wrong? Sometimes people have to be prevented from doing what they want for the greater good. It's what laws are for. >>>>> Another thought. >>>>> Why is it disrespectful to overtake a funeral procession? [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > cremated and my ashes scattered and I don't want my family doing anything > more than looking at the occasional photo! I'm donating my body for medical research. AIUI bodies are in short supply for surgeons, etc, to practice new techniques. Mike. >>>>>> Another thought. >>>>>> Why is it disrespectful to overtake a funeral procession? [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >AIUI bodies are in short supply for surgeons, etc, to practice new >techniques. Do you really want medical students throwing your bits around? >>> I'm an atheist - I don't want any religion at my funeral, I want to be >>> cremated and my ashes scattered and I don't want my family doing [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Do you really want medical students throwing your bits around? That may happen, but I don't believe it is common, and students are not the only surgeons who need practice, before carrying out intricate surgery on live patients. In any case, why should what happens to my body after my death, concern me while I'm alive? If a dead body can be used as a resource, I'm all for it. Better than burning, or burying it. A bonus is that relatives do not have any funeral expenses, other than those they choose to have. A wake or remembrance service etc. Mike. >>>> I'm an atheist - I don't want any religion at my funeral, I want to be >>>> cremated and my ashes scattered and I don't want my family doing [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > A bonus is that relatives do not have any funeral expenses, other than > those they choose to have. A wake or remembrance service etc. Good for you, but please have respect for the wishes of others. SignatureMrBitsy Rover 75 CDTi >>>>I'm donating my body for medical research. >>>>AIUI bodies are in short supply for surgeons, etc, to practice new [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Good for you, but please have respect for the wishes of others. I do. Have I suggested otherwise? but respect cuts both ways. Why should those in a funeral procession expect traffic to defer to them, and why should they not respect those, who for whatever reason do not wish to be delayed and overtake? My views on death and it's rituals. Funerals, cremation, burial etc are mine. I think few would agree with them. If you disagree with them, fine.As long as you don't expect me to always conform to the ideas that others might have. Mike. >Why should those in a funeral procession expect traffic to defer to them, >and why should they not respect those, who for whatever reason do not wish >to be delayed and overtake? you want respect for your attitude of not showing respect, hmmmm. SignatureBMW >>Why should those in a funeral procession expect traffic to defer to them, >>and why should they not respect those, who for whatever reason do not wish >>to be delayed and overtake? > > you want respect for your attitude of not showing respect, hmmmm. Is it respectful not to overtake, and at the same time complain about being delayed by the procession? A few here seem to think so. Smacks of hypocrisy to me. Mike. >> you want respect for your attitude of not showing respect, hmmmm. > >Is it respectful not to overtake, and at the same time complain about being >delayed by the procession? no SignatureBMW >>>>> I'm an atheist - I don't want any religion at my funeral, I want >>>>> to be cremated and my ashes scattered and I don't want my family [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Good for you, but please have respect for the wishes of others. No matter what those wishes are? What if I want my dead relatives placed in a perspex box and put on display in my front garden? Ret. >>>>>> I'm an atheist - I don't want any religion at my funeral, I want >>>>>> to be cremated and my ashes scattered and I don't want my family [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > No matter what those wishes are? What if I want my dead relatives placed > in a perspex box and put on display in my front garden? If you really want to be daft, how about charging visitors to piss on it? Always, always there are those that just want to go to extremes in any discussion. SignatureMrBitsy Rover 75 CDTi >> No matter what those wishes are? What if I want my dead relatives placed >> in a perspex box and put on display in my front garden? >If you really want to be daft, how about charging visitors to piss on it? How much? SignatureBMW >>>> I'm an atheist - I don't want any religion at my funeral, I want to be >>>> cremated and my ashes scattered and I don't want my family doing [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >only surgeons who need practice, before carrying out intricate surgery on >live patients. It is standard practice in medical schools. Genitals are a favourite. >In any case, why should what happens to my body after my death, concern me >while I'm alive? It's preferable not to think about it - whatever happens to it: burial, decomposition, post mortem etc. >If a dead body can be used as a resource, I'm all for it. Better than >burning, or burying it. Use as fuel? >A bonus is that relatives do not have any funeral expenses, other than those >they choose to have. A wake or remembrance service etc. A funeral service is part of the grieving experience. "Graz" <graz@gmail.com> wrote in message >>A bonus is that relatives do not have any funeral expenses, other than >>those >>they choose to have. A wake or remembrance service etc. > > A funeral service is part of the grieving experience. Fair enough. I don't expect everyone to think as I do. Mike. > "Graz" <graz@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >> A funeral service is part of the grieving experience. Many people I know believe that it is barbaric. A loved relative dies and everyone grieves. Two weeks later, when the worst is over, everyone is dragged to a cold dank church, or miserable crematorium, where everyone is plunged into more weeping and wailing. For many people the funeral is an ordeal they would rather do without - but go through with because 'it's the done thing'. Ret. >>> A funeral service is part of the grieving experience. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >ordeal they would rather do without - but go through with because 'it's the >done thing'. the argument is that its a way to mark the event and gain some "closure" as the US would say. But it seems stressful for the principal mourners. SignatureBMW >> "Graz" <graz@gmail.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >ordeal they would rather do without - but go through with because 'it's the >done thing'. The alternative forms of grieving take far longer and are ultimately more painful. >> "Graz" <graz@gmail.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > ordeal they would rather do without - but go through with because 'it's the > done thing'. Go and do some reading about rites of passage. Perhaps then you might have something worth saying. Signature"Please try to understand, the one you call Messiah is a lie." [email me at huge {at} huge (dot) org <dot> uk] >Many people I know believe that it is barbaric. A loved relative dies and >everyone grieves. Two weeks later, when the worst is over, everyone is >dragged to a cold dank church, or miserable crematorium, where everyone is >plunged into more weeping and wailing. For many people the funeral is an >ordeal they would rather do without - but go through with because 'it's the >done thing'. The funeral should be the end of it. IME it does clear the air, in fact within a few minutes of the end of the service. It's weddings that are miserable affairs. Derek >I'm donating my body for medical research. >AIUI bodies are in short supply for surgeons, etc, to practice new >techniques. The medical students will cut your todger off and float it in the soup in the canteen. Stranger things have happened. Derek "Miike G" <postmaster@miktoolman.plus.net> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: > I'm donating my body for medical research. AIUI bodies are in short > supply for surgeons, etc, to practice new techniques. When I saw my old man over Xmas, he very tentatively asked me if I'd mind having a look at some paperwork for him. Odd, I thought, not like him to be so edgy about that kind of thing. So he hands over "Donate body to medical science" forms from his local university hospital. No other comment, just a very uncomfortable look. "Oh, right - you want me to sign as next-of-kin? Course I will. Bloody good idea." He looked so relieved - he wasn't sure what my reaction'd be, and thought I might be all offended. Sod that. I must get round to getting a similar form and signing my flesh away. > "Miike G" <postmaster@miktoolman.plus.net> gurgled happily, sounding much > like they were saying: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > I might be all offended. Sod that. I must get round to getting a similar > form and signing my flesh away. You know you'll get the "odds and sods" back, one day? Signature"Please try to understand, the one you call Messiah is a lie." [email me at huge {at} huge (dot) org <dot> uk] Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: >> So he hands over "Donate body to medical science" forms from his local >> university hospital. No other comment, just a very uncomfortable look. > You know you'll get the "odds and sods" back, one day? No, I didn't... Still, I'm sure the cat'll be thankful. > I'm an atheist - I don't want any religion at my funeral, I want to be > cremated and my ashes scattered and I don't want my family doing anything > more than looking at the occasional photo! Then why not have a humanist burial and have a tree planted on your grave. Get enough people doing that and you get a forest. SignatureCarl Robson Get cashback on your purchases Topcashback http://www.TopCashBack.co.uk/skraggy_uk/ref/index.htm Greasypalm http://www.greasypalm.co.uk/r/?l=1006553 >> I'm an atheist - I don't want any religion at my funeral, I want to be >> cremated and my ashes scattered and I don't want my family doing anything >> more than looking at the occasional photo! >> > Then why not have a humanist burial and have a tree planted on your > grave. Get enough people doing that and you get a forest. Agreed - spot for the wife and I is picked. SignatureMrBitsy Rover 75 CDTi >>> I'm an atheist - I don't want any religion at my funeral, I want to be >>> cremated and my ashes scattered and I don't want my family doing [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Agreed - spot for the wife and I is picked. He said he didn't want a burial. Gonad >>>> I'm an atheist - I don't want any religion at my funeral, I want to be >>>> cremated and my ashes scattered and I don't want my family doing [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> >He said he didn't want a burial. on the subject of veneration of the dead body (including the big fuss about unauthorized use of body parts a while ago) and Christianity, it strikes me that as the "immortal soul", the bit Christians care about, leaves the body, they should not be worrying. SignatureBMW >>>>> I'm an atheist - I don't want any religion at my funeral, I want to be >>>>> cremated and my ashes scattered and I don't want my family doing [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > strikes me that as the "immortal soul", the bit Christians care about, > leaves the body, they should not be worrying. Or possibly an atheist view. That once you die you are no longer a person. Mike. >>>>>> I'm an atheist - I don't want any religion at my funeral, I want to be >>>>>> cremated and my ashes scattered and I don't want my family doing [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > That once you die you are no longer a person. > Mike. Yes you are, you're a dead 'person'. Gonad >> Or possibly an atheist view. >> That once you die you are no longer a person. >> Mike. >> > Yes you are, you're a dead 'person'. No you aren't. You're a few pounds of decaying meat. Signature"Please try to understand, the one you call Messiah is a lie." [email me at huge {at} huge (dot) org <dot> uk] > >> Or possibly an atheist view. > >> That once you die you are no longer a person. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > No you aren't. You're a few pounds of decaying meat. (looks at self in mirror after Yuletide excess) A *few* pounds?... -- Halmyre >>>> Or possibly an atheist view. >>>> That once you die you are no longer a person. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > -- > Halmyre Of course I'm being pedantic but when you die,you get registered as a dead person. Gonad >Of course I'm being pedantic but when you die,you get >registered as a dead person. good point, forget atheism, the law has things to say about bodies. SignatureBMW >>>>> Or possibly an atheist view. >>>>> That once you die you are no longer a person. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Of course I'm being pedantic but when you die,you get > registered as a dead person. Only because it's the easiest way to record it, and keep a check on a bodies disposal. Mike. >>>>>> Or possibly an atheist view. >>>>>> That once you die you are no longer a person. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > disposal. > Mike. Yes, I suppose it sounds less upsetting than calling them corpses. Gonad >> >> Or possibly an atheist view. >> >> That once you die you are no longer a person. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >A *few* pounds?... * After your dead ? * I still feel a bit cadaverous after my Yuletide excess. Derek > Yes you are, you're a dead 'person'. Wonder why we don't have pointless rituals to show respect for unborn 'people'. They are just as unavailable, and just as much 'people' if you seriously think the above. I expect the answer is a) it would highlight the ludicrous nature of death-related rituals, and b) nobody's yet considered how to make money from it. Chris >> Yes you are, you're a dead 'person'. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > highlight the ludicrous nature of death-related rituals, and b) nobody's > yet considered how to make money from it. I'm sure you're right, when a basic funeral with cremation costs around £1000, and one with a graveyard burial in a mid range coffin, is nearer £2000. I assume it has happened, but I've never heard of a funeral Co going bust. Sounds like a good trade to be in these days. People may give up a lot of things, but they are not going to give up dying just because of the credit crunch. Mike. >I assume it has happened, but I've never heard of a funeral Co going bust. >Sounds like a good trade to be in these days. AFAIK nearly all the funeral "providers" despite having folksy local names like "Obedia Earnshaw" were bought out by an American funeral conglomerate years ago. >People may give up a lot of things, but they are not going to give up dying >just because of the credit crunch. Derek >AFAIK nearly all the funeral "providers" despite having folksy local >names like "Obedia Earnshaw" were bought out by an American funeral >conglomerate years ago. I use the COOP, seems more appropriate somehow. SignatureBMW >> AFAIK nearly all the funeral "providers" despite having folksy local >> names like "Obedia Earnshaw" were bought out by an American funeral >> conglomerate years ago. > > I use the COOP, seems more appropriate somehow. There are still plenty of small, independent, usually family run, undertakers. They seem to less profit oriented than the large franchises. Ret. >> AFAIK nearly all the funeral "providers" despite having folksy local >> names like "Obedia Earnshaw" were bought out by an American funeral >> conglomerate years ago. > > I use the COOP, seems more appropriate somehow. Strangely, they didn't change the name to "Living" when the shop did. >Wonder why we don't have pointless rituals to show respect for unborn >'people'. They are just as unavailable, and just as much 'people' if >you seriously think the above. we have ceremonies to mark the rites of passage, birth, coming of age, marriage, death. Where do the unborn fit in exactly? SignatureBMW >> Wonder why we don't have pointless rituals to show respect for unborn >> 'people'. They are just as unavailable, and just as much 'people' if >> you seriously think the above. > > we have ceremonies to mark the rites of passage, birth, coming of age, > marriage, death. Where do the unborn fit in exactly? I just said that. Chris >> Yes you are, you're a dead 'person'. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > highlight the ludicrous nature of death-related rituals, and b) > nobody's yet considered how to make money from it. Yes indeed. I always grimace at the current obsession with setting up a tacky 'memorial' at the side of a road where someone has died in a crash. Rotting flowers piled up in a heap or tied to the offending tree or lamp post, etc. No-one ever creates such memorials if the deceased collapsed and died in the street - or in a hospital bed - so what's so special about the site of road deaths ? Seems to me it's more an opportunity for the bereaved to be able to say to the world: "See what a great mourner I am." It's tacky. Ret. Ret. >so what's so special about the site of road >deaths ? they are not all road deaths, many are stabblings etc. Its a public statement of "we dont like this happening all the time" its also a great way of getting some cheap flowers, just tie one bunch to a lamppost and harvest a dozen. SignatureBMW >> so what's so special about the site of road >> deaths ? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > great way of getting some cheap flowers, just tie one bunch to a > lamppost and harvest a dozen. LOL!! Ret. > Seems to me it's more an opportunity for the bereaved to be able to say to > the world: "See what a great mourner I am." It's tacky. Spot-on. People are afraid of not having meaning, not making a mark, not passing things on. I guess it stems from evolutionary instincts. Chris >>> Yes you are, you're a dead 'person'. >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Seems to me it's more an opportunity for the bereaved to be able to > say to the world: "See what a great mourner I am." It's tacky. There are far fewer round here then there used to be. Must mow down a few more chavs :-) <snip> >Yes indeed. I always grimace at the current obsession with setting up a >tacky 'memorial' at the side of a road where someone has died in a crash. >Rotting flowers piled up in a heap or tied to the offending tree or lamp >post, etc. The council should move them after a week or so, before they deteriorate. If left longer then there isn't another "good time" to get rid of them >No-one ever creates such memorials if the deceased collapsed and died in the >street - or in a hospital bed - so what's so special about the site of road >deaths ? > >Seems to me it's more an opportunity for the bereaved to be able to say to >the world: "See what a great mourner I am." It's tacky. It would be more accurate to say that about people who donate 25 quid seats/park benches with a 15 quid engraved brass plaque to be erected in hospital grounds. As for wakes and memorial services IME they are more along the lines "Poor old Fred, he helped a lot of people / made us all laugh while he was alive and has been taken from us and we didn't have a chance to say goodbye so we are getting together here to remeber him and say goodbye in the best way possible." Derek >>Yes indeed. I always grimace at the current obsession with setting up a >>tacky 'memorial' at the side of a road where someone has died in a crash. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >deteriorate. If left longer then there isn't another "good time" to >get rid of them most now do after a time, I understand SignatureBMW >> on the subject of veneration of the dead body (including the big fuss >> about unauthorized use of body parts a while ago) and Christianity, it >> strikes me that as the "immortal soul", the bit Christians care about, >> leaves the body, they should not be worrying. > >Or possibly an atheist view. I don't know if there can be a single view of a dead body to atheists, as there is no credo. SignatureBMW >>>>> I'm an atheist - I don't want any religion at my funeral, I want to be >>>>> cremated and my ashes scattered and I don't want my family doing [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > strikes me that as the "immortal soul", the bit Christians care about, > leaves the body, they should not be worrying. I am an atheist. SignatureMrBitsy Rover 75 CDTi >> on the subject of veneration of the dead body (including the big fuss >> about unauthorized use of body parts a while ago) and Christianity, it >> strikes me that as the "immortal soul", the bit Christians care about, >> leaves the body, they should not be worrying. >I am an atheist. Er, fine. SignatureBMW >>> on the subject of veneration of the dead body (including the big fuss >>> about unauthorized use of body parts a while ago) and Christianity, it [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Er, fine. Er, so one does not have to be religious to have respect for the dead and their relatives. SignatureMrBitsy Rover 75 CDTi >>>> on the subject of veneration of the dead body (including the big fuss >>>> about unauthorized use of body parts a while ago) and Christianity, it [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Er, so one does not have to be religious to have respect for the dead and >their relatives. of course not, my point was that Christians are supposed to be concerning themselves with the immortal soul, not the body, I heard a bishop say that all the fuss over body parts in the fairly recent "scandal" was un-Christian. SignatureBMW > "Elder" <carl.robson@bouncing-czechs.com> wrote in message >> Then why not have a humanist burial and have a tree planted on your >> grave. Get enough people doing that and you get a forest. > > Agreed - spot for the wife and I is picked. I'll get your coat... Chris >>>>> Another thought. >>>>> Why is it disrespectful to overtake a funeral procession? [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > last thing I want, after I'm gone, is for members of my family to be > visiting a miserable, dreary, graveyard. I respect your wishes. I hope you will respect mine - If my wife goes before me, I will visit the tree she is buried under. > I'm an atheist - I don't want any religion at my funeral, I want to be > cremated and my ashes scattered and I don't want my family doing anything > more than looking at the occasional photo! I respect your wishes. In fact respect is what appears to be lacking in general. SignatureMrBitsy Rover 75 CDTi >In fact respect is what appears to be lacking in general. true SignatureBMW >> In fact respect is what appears to be lacking in general. "Respect" is a word which is bandied around a lot, but on closer inspection usually means whatever the person bandying it around would like it to mean. "Respect is lacking" is meaningless, except whatever that phrase means in Ray's head. One might as well announce "Cheese has changed", as though this were some deep insight into the state of the world today. Chris > "Cheese has >changed", as though this were some deep insight into the state of the >world today. ahh, that might tell you that in the US they are nowadays frightened of unpasturised milk cheese and from deduction that they put more store on excessive hygeine than flavour in food. SignatureBMW >> "Cheese has >> changed", as though this were some deep insight into the state of the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > of unpasturised milk cheese and from deduction that they put more > store on excessive hygeine than flavour in food. Indeed - as anyone who has sampled their Monterey Jack cheese will testify!! Ret. >>> "Cheese has >>> changed", as though this were some deep insight into the state of the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Ret. One thing is for sure,Americans don't know how to make a decent cup of tea(other than that iced tea crap). -;) Gonad >a decent >cup of tea now there's a good idea SignatureBMW >> a decent >> cup of tea > > now there's a good idea I made it last time....your turn. Gonad >> now there's a good idea > >I made it last time....your turn. milk? Sugar? SignatureBMW >>> now there's a good idea >> I made it last time....your turn. > > milk? Sugar? Milk and only 3 sugars please,stirred not shaken. Gonad >Indeed - as anyone who has sampled their Monterey Jack cheese will testify!! It's like manna from heaven compared with what they call (in a generic sort of way) "American Cheese" or even "Swiss" = white plasticised stuff suitable for mending splits in drainpipes with a couple of jubilee clips. Derek > > Graveyards are for the living, not the dead. > Exactly - and a chronic waste of land. Cremation should be compulsory. > The last thing I want, after I'm gone, is for members of my family to > be visiting a miserable, dreary, graveyard. You'll not want the service round here then since the crematoriums are in graveyards... Signature*Why do we say something is out of whack? What is a whack? * Dave Plowman dave@davesound.co.uk London SW 12 >>> Graveyards are for the living, not the dead. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > You'll not want the service round here then since the crematoriums > are in graveyards... I was thinking more of family visiting graves long after the deceased has been committed to the ground. Do these visitors ever consider that the person they are visiting is not the person they remember but a stinking mess of putrefying flesh and guts? Ret. >>>> Graveyards are for the living, not the dead. >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >person they are visiting is not the person they remember but a stinking mess >of putrefying flesh and guts? It's bad ale that does that. Derek Derek Geldard <impex@miniac.demon.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: >>I was thinking more of family visiting graves long after the deceased >>has been committed to the ground. Do these visitors ever consider that >>the person they are visiting is not the person they remember but a >>stinking mess of putrefying flesh and guts? > It's bad ale that does that. You _bastard_. Not when I'm slurping a cuppasoup, please. > Derek Geldard <impex@miniac.demon.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding > much like they were saying: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > You _bastard_. Not when I'm slurping a cuppasoup, please. Consuming such will only speed the conversion of you to a stinking mess. Enjoy. :-) "Brimstone" <brimstone520-ng03@yahoo.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: >>>> I was thinking more of family visiting graves long after the deceased >>>> has been committed to the ground. Do these visitors ever consider >>>> that the person they are visiting is not the person they remember but >>>> a stinking mess of putrefying flesh and guts? >>> It's bad ale that does that. >> You _bastard_. Not when I'm slurping a cuppasoup, please. > Consuming such will only speed the conversion of you to a stinking mess. > > Enjoy. :-) I did, thanks. Thai chicken. > "Brimstone" <brimstone520-ng03@yahoo.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding > much like they were saying: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > I did, thanks. Thai chicken. We now await your conversion into "a stinking mess of putrefying flesh and guts" (probably not on the road to Damascus though). "Brimstone" <brimstone520-ng03@yahoo.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: > We now await your conversion into "a stinking mess of putrefying flesh > and guts" <parp> > (probably not on the road to Damascus though). Or the A41. >road to Damascus though back on topic! Anybody driven it, what's the speed limit? SignatureBMW >> road to Damascus though > > back on topic! Anybody driven it, what's the speed limit? Four camels an hour. >>> road to Damascus though >> back on topic! Anybody driven it, what's the speed limit? > > Four camels an hour. Any congestion charge? Gonad >>>> road to Damascus though >>> back on topic! Anybody driven it, what's the speed limit? >> >> Four camels an hour. >> > Any congestion charge? Only in the city centre when there are more than twenty camels per square cubit. >> Any congestion charge? >Only in the city centre when there are more than twenty camels per square >cubit. and they crucify you for speeding, and I mean crucify! SignatureBMW >>> Any congestion charge? > >> Only in the city centre when there are more than twenty camels per square >> cubit. > > and they crucify you for speeding, and I mean crucify! Gosh! that'd make anyone get cross. Gonad > Maybe I'm an oddball, but I don't really understand the meaning of > 'respect for the dead' A statement to clearly show the drop in standards in this country. SignatureMrBitsy Rover 75 CDTi >> Maybe I'm an oddball, but I don't really understand the meaning of >> 'respect for the dead' > > A statement to clearly show the drop in standards in this country. I have to agree. Put another way, nobody gives a sh.t - how dare that bastard die and make me late for work. Respect and sorrow for the end of someones life? 2 hopes, no hope and Bob Hope. > >> Maybe I'm an oddball, but I don't really understand the meaning of > >> 'respect for the dead' > > > > A statement to clearly show the drop in standards in this country. > I have to agree. Put another way, nobody gives a sh.t - how dare that > bastard die and make me late for work. Respect and sorrow for the end > of someones life? 2 hopes, no hope and Bob Hope. I'd rather people were shown respect all their lives rather than just after death. Signature*Just give me chocolate and nobody gets hurt Dave Plowman dave@davesound.co.uk London SW 12 > I'd rather people were shown respect all their lives rather than just > after death. Indeed. When you're dead, you're hardly likely to care. SignatureConor I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams >> I'd rather people were shown respect all their lives rather than just >> after death. >> >Indeed. When you're dead, you're hardly likely to care. but the bereaved will when some selfish c.nt cuts into the funeral procession because he has a right for his selfishness to be "respected", apparently. SignatureBMW >>> I'd rather people were shown respect all their lives rather than just >>> after death. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > procession because he has a right for his selfishness to be > "respected", apparently Emotive terminology to make your point. What if the overtaker has a pressing reason for getting somewhere without delay. Is that person being selfish, for considering their needs to be more important than how those in the the funeral procession might think about it? In case you think otherwise, I have never overtaken a funeral procession, but I wouldn't hesitate to do so if it was urgent to get somewhere as quickly as possible. I've no doubt that someone driving their wife to hospital, with a baby on the way, wouldn't hesitate to overtake if the opportunity arose.. An extreme case to make my point. Mike. >>>> I'd rather people were shown respect all their lives rather than just >>>> after death. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > An extreme case to make my point. > Mike. I can't see anyone arguing with that scenario. Gonad >> I've no doubt that someone driving their wife to hospital, with a baby on >> the way, wouldn't hesitate to overtake if the opportunity arose.. >> An extreme case to make my point. >> Mike. >> >I can't see anyone arguing with that scenario. I've never seen a fire appliance have to overtake a cortege, do they remove helmets and switch off siren? SignatureBMW >>> I've no doubt that someone driving their wife to hospital, with a baby >>> on [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I've never seen a fire appliance have to overtake a cortege, do they > remove helmets and switch off siren? Why focus on extreme cases, when clearly the point being made was not about them? SignatureMrBitsy Rover 75 CDTi >> I've never seen a fire appliance have to overtake a cortege, do they >> remove helmets and switch off siren? >Why focus on extreme cases, when clearly the point being made was not about >them? have you heard of things called jokes? SignatureBMW >>> I've never seen a fire appliance have to overtake a cortege, do they >>> remove helmets and switch off siren? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > have you heard of things called jokes? Goes back to respect again - I don't find such things funny. SignatureMrBitsy Rover 75 CDTi >>>> I've never seen a fire appliance have to overtake a cortege, do >>>> they remove helmets and switch off siren? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Goes back to respect again - I don't find such things funny. If you're going to make a career on the railway Ray then developing a blacker sense of humour will be useful to your and your family. >>>>> I've never seen a fire appliance have to overtake a cortege, do >>>>> they remove helmets and switch off siren? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > If you're going to make a career on the railway Ray then developing a > blacker sense of humour will be useful to your and your family. How so? SignatureMrBitsy Rover 75 CDTi >>>>>> I've never seen a fire appliance have to overtake a cortege, do >>>>>> they remove helmets and switch off siren? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > How so? Because you are likely to experience things that will upset you. Black humour is a mean of relieving the emotional turmoil in a manner which harms no one. >>>>>>> I've never seen a fire appliance have to overtake a cortege, do >>>>>>> they remove helmets and switch off siren? [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > humour is a mean of relieving the emotional turmoil in a manner which > harms no one. I let it go over my head - sometimes it is on the level of soap opera. SignatureMrBitsy Rover 75 CDTi >>>>>>>> I've never seen a fire appliance have to overtake a cortege, do >>>>>>>> they remove helmets and switch off siren? [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > I let it go over my head - sometimes it is on the level of soap opera. Do you think clearing up the aftermath of a suicide is on the level of soap opera? >>>Why focus on extreme cases, when clearly the point being made was not >>>about >>>them? >> have you heard of things called jokes? >Goes back to respect again - I don't find such things funny. you don't think death and humour go together! SignatureBMW >>>> Why focus on extreme cases, when clearly the point being made was not >>>> about [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > you don't think death and humour go together! Some people are dying for a laugh. ;-) Gonad >> you don't think death and humour go together! > >Some people are dying for a laugh. ;-) "On the plus side, death is one of the few things that can be done just as easily lying down." "It is impossible to experience one's death objectively and still carry a tune." "I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying." Woody Allan SignatureBMW >>> you don't think death and humour go together! >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > achieve it through not dying." > Woody Allan "I told you I was ill." Spike Milligan >"I told you I was ill." >Spike Milligan that was very very good, wasn't it. SignatureBMW >> "I told you I was ill." >> Spike Milligan > > that was very very good, wasn't it. When Bob Hope was dying, he was asked "where would you like to be buried"....he replied "surprise me!"......a gem. LOL Gonad >>>> Why focus on extreme cases, when clearly the point being made was >>>> not about [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > you don't think death and humour go together! It's a safety valve in some situations. I once attended a motorcycle accident in Widnes where a lad had borrowed his mate's high powered motorcycle and driven far too fast. He was on a residential road and couldn't take a right hand bend. He clipped the nearside kerb, hurtled into a lamp-post and his body was literally ripped in half. His lower torso and legs ended up in the nearside hedge and his upper body landed on the opposite pavement, (in front of a couple of young girls walking to school). When I arrived at the scene my colleague said, "It's obvious he's been drinking." I asked him how he had arrived at that conclusion at that stage. He replied, "Well look at him - he's legless.............. " In truly horrific situations like that, humour can help with coping. Ret. >>>>> Why focus on extreme cases, when clearly the point being made was >>>>> not about [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Ret. Ha, he'd also lost his head. ;-) Seriously though, I take your point. Gonad >In truly horrific situations like that, humour can help with coping. i woulf guess all the emergency services and armed forces go in for a bit of black humour. SignatureBMW >> In truly horrific situations like that, humour can help with coping. > > i woulf guess all the emergency services and armed forces go in for a > bit of black humour. It's not so much a case of "going in for it" as something which one develops. >> but the bereaved will when some selfish c.nt cuts into the funeral >> procession because he has a right for his selfishness to be [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >delay. Is that person being selfish, for considering their needs to be more >important than how those in the the funeral procession might think about it? If he has a *truly* pressing need, then yes. If he just wants his view that he should not be delayed to be "respected", then no. >In case you think otherwise, I have never overtaken a funeral procession, OK >but I wouldn't hesitate to do so if it was urgent to get somewhere as >quickly as possible. OK >I've no doubt that someone driving their wife to hospital, with a baby on >the way, wouldn't hesitate to overtake if the opportunity arose.. >An extreme case to make my point. I agree for that type of situation. SignatureBMW > but the bereaved will when some selfish c.nt cuts into the funeral > procession because he has a right for his selfishness to be > "respected", apparently. How are they supposed to know who is in the convoy? SignatureConor I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams >> but the bereaved will when some selfish c.nt cuts into the funeral >> procession because he has a right for his selfishness to be >> "respected", apparently. >> >How are they supposed to know who is in the convoy? as I said at the start, you cannot know who is in their own car and nobody is going to expect special treatment when "invisible" to other drivers, however, you were saying:- "When you're dead, you're hardly likely to care" but the *mourners* (in the black limos) are not *dead*. SignatureBMW >>> Maybe I'm an oddball, but I don't really understand the meaning of >>> 'respect for the dead' [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >late for work. >Respect and sorrow for the end of someones life? and for the living bereaved. SignatureBMW >>> Maybe I'm an oddball, but I don't really understand the meaning of >>> 'respect for the dead' [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Respect and sorrow for the end of someones life? 2 hopes, no hope and Bob > Hope. I don't go in for all this "respect for the dead" hand-wringing bollocks. It ties in with a culture obsessed with death, religion and pointless rituals, and a very profitable industry honed to extract a lot money from said people. I'm very cynical of the way in which people are manipulated into positions of guilt where they feel they must participate in all of this. I care spiritually, if you like, about people I know and if they die I will remember the good times together. There is nothing else but that. Live for the here and now. Sticking them in a box and carrying it very slowly around the public highway serves no logical purpose. The end result is that a company made a lot of money from carrying a dead body very slowly around the public highway. If someone really thinks that there is somehow an element of disrespect in that, I seriously question their sanity. What is disrespectful is expecting complete strangers to accept without question something which has no importance to them but which has a negative impact on them in any case. Chris >>>> Maybe I'm an oddball, but I don't really understand the meaning of >>>> 'respect for the dead' [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > has no importance to them but which has a negative impact on them in any > case. Nice to note that at least one person in this thread has similar views to mine. I refuse to believe that all those who would not overtake a funeral procession, are sharing or really concerned about the grief of the mouurners. Mike. >I refuse to believe that all those who would not overtake a funeral >procession, are sharing or really concerned about the grief of the >mouurners. why, because otherwise you look a selfish c***? SignatureBMW >>>>> Maybe I'm an oddball, but I don't really understand the meaning of >>>>> 'respect for the dead' [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > procession, are sharing or really concerned about the grief of the > mouurners. I agree. Telling the undertaker that the mourners will meet the hearse at the church/crematorium is a far more sensible option. My father-in-law (who was living in Helston, Cornwall, at the time) died just prior to Christmas seven years ago. He had a funeral procession all the way from Helston to Truro where the crem was. Close family travelled in the funeral limos - which were ancient and had no effective heating for the passenger compartment. We crawled all the way from Helston to Truro and we were bloody frozen by the time we got to the crem (which was no warmer!). Ret. >Telling the undertaker If we were supposed to overtake he wouldn't be called an "undertaker". There, I said it, somebody had to. SignatureBMW >>Telling the undertaker > > If we were supposed to overtake he wouldn't be called an "undertaker". > There, I said it, somebody had to. Gordon Bennet, if my Dad had still been alive he'd have turned in his grave. Where are the coats? >>>>> Maybe I'm an oddball, but I don't really understand the meaning of >>>>> 'respect for the dead' [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > procession, are sharing or really concerned about the grief of the > mouurners. Amazing. I tell you I would not do so and give my reasons, yet you STILL will not respect the views of others. No wonder the world is in such a mess. SignatureMrBitsy Rover 75 CDTi >>>> Maybe I'm an oddball, but I don't really understand the meaning of >>>> 'respect for the dead' [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > people are manipulated into positions of guilt where they feel they > must participate in all of this. I agree with that last bit. When I told my kids that I didn't want them wasting money on a wooden coffin but wanted a cardboard coffin they said, "But what will people think? They'll think we didn't care for you." Which is exactly the sentiment that undertakers rely on. It's not about what the deceased wanted - it's all about 'what people will think' !! Ret. > I'm very cynical of the way in which >> people are manipulated into positions of guilt where they feel they [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >exactly the sentiment that undertakers rely on. It's not about what the >deceased wanted - it's all about 'what people will think' !! There are elements of "what will they think" and of "manipulation" but that does not mean that people do not show genuine respect for mourners and funerals or that it is OK to upset them by overtaking the cortege SignatureBMW >I agree with that last bit. When I told my kids that I didn't want them >wasting money on a wooden coffin but wanted a cardboard coffin they said, >"But what will people think? They'll think we didn't care for you." Which is >exactly the sentiment that undertakers rely on. It's not about what the >deceased wanted - it's all about 'what people will think' !! When my father died the funeral director said to my mother " You'll want a nice cremation coffin won't you " She said yes thinking "Cardboard and wood grain Fablon". What it turned out to be was an expensive polished wooden coffin with plastic (Fire - degradable) handles. Derek >>I agree with that last bit. When I told my kids that I didn't want them >>wasting money on a wooden coffin but wanted a cardboard coffin they said, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > What it turned out to be was an expensive polished wooden coffin with > plastic (Fire - degradable) handles. When my Father died, he got (at his and my Mother's wishes), a cardboard job. And we didn't go to the cremation. He died in the USA. Crematoria are on industrial premises there - me and the funeral director were mutually astonished at the difference between custom and practise in the UK and US. For example, I regard open casket funerals as a grotesquerie, and yet they are commonplace in the US. Signature"Please try to understand, the one you call Messiah is a lie." [email me at huge {at} huge (dot) org <dot> uk] >> Maybe I'm an oddball, but I don't really understand the meaning of >> 'respect for the dead' > > A statement to clearly show the drop in standards in this country. An expected reply. One that shows you haven't really thought about it. Respect is for the living, or for what someone who dies has done with their lives, not for something in a box that is no longer a person. As some may have guessed by now, I'm an atheist. AFAIC once you're dead, you're just something that needs to be disposed of. Mike. > An expected reply. One that shows you haven't really thought about it. > Respect is for the living, or for what someone who dies has done with their > lives, not for something in a box that is no longer a person. We don;t slow down for the body in a box. We slow down for the grieving in the procession. It's a simple way of saying "we appreciate your pain". It's a simple way of showing respect. Ian >> An expected reply. One that shows you haven't really thought about it. >> Respect is for the living, or for what someone who dies has done with [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > grieving in the procession. It's a simple way of saying "we appreciate > your pain". It's a simple way of showing respect. Agreed - I also imagine the Grief in that procession. SignatureMrBitsy Rover 75 CDTi >> An expected reply. One that shows you haven't really thought about it. >> Respect is for the living, or for what someone who dies has done with [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > grieving in the procession. It's a simple way of saying "we appreciate > your pain". It's a simple way of showing respect. It's a bit naive IMO to believe that all those who don't overtake a funeral procession are doing so out of respect. I suspect the majority are just conforming to the convention. They'll probably still complain to others about being held up Mike. >It's a bit naive IMO to believe that all those who don't overtake a funeral >procession are doing so out of respect. >I suspect the majority are just conforming to the convention. >They'll probably still complain to others about being held up you want to believe so. If someone arrives late from such a circumstance they will just say its one of those things. Anything else would be looked on as appalling. SignatureBMW >>> An expected reply. One that shows you haven't really thought about it. >>> Respect is for the living, or for what someone who dies has done with [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > They'll probably still complain to others about being held up > Mike. I can't imagine someone complaining that they were held up by a funeral procession - are their lives really that shallow? SignatureMrBitsy Rover 75 CDTi >>>> An expected reply. One that shows you haven't really thought about it. >>>> Respect is for the living, or for what someone who dies has done with [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I can't imagine someone complaining that they were held up by a funeral > procession - are their lives really that shallow? You obviously haven't read all the posts in this thread. Mike. >I can't imagine someone complaining that they were held up by a funeral >procession - are their lives really that shallow? I've never known it happen, maybe some moronic chav would, but no normal person. SignatureBMW >>>> An expected reply. One that shows you haven't really thought about >>>> it. Respect is for the living, or for what someone who dies has [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I can't imagine someone complaining that they were held up by a > funeral procession - are their lives really that shallow? I suppose it all depends upon how late they are, and how important it is that they get to their destination on time! No-one would object to being made late for work - but missing your flight to the Caribbean - now that's another matter entirely! Ret. >> I can't imagine someone complaining that they were held up by a >> funeral procession - are their lives really that shallow? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >made late for work - but missing your flight to the Caribbean - now that's >another matter entirely! if the occasion is that important, what are you doing leaving only those few minutes spare? SignatureBMW >>> I can't imagine someone complaining that they were held up by a >>> funeral procession - are their lives really that shallow? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > if the occasion is that important, what are you doing leaving only > those few minutes spare? My comment was intended to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek! Personally, I always get to the airport at least two hours before the take-off and, more often than not, three hours. Ret. > >>> I can't imagine someone complaining that they were held up by a > >>> funeral procession - are their lives really that shallow? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Ret. Only because the bloody airlines insist on it. I remember when the first inter-city shuttles started - "you'll just turn up and get on - just like taking the train or the bus". Aye, right. SignatureHalmyre That's you that is. >>>>> I can't imagine someone complaining that they were held up by a >>>>> funeral procession - are their lives really that shallow? [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Only because the bloody airlines insist on it. Mainly so that we can get seats together! Flying scheduled is not such a problem because you can usually book seats well in advance at no extra charge. Budget flights today, however, charge you around £10 per person each way to pre-book seats. Ret. >One that shows you haven't really thought about it. >Respect is for the living, you haven't thought about it. Are the limos full of bodies or people? SignatureBMW >>> Maybe I'm an oddball, but I don't really understand the meaning of >>> 'respect for the dead' >> >> A statement to clearly show the drop in standards in this country. > > An expected reply. One that shows you haven't really thought about it. That also is an expected reply - really proves my statement about lack of respect. > Respect is for the living, or for what someone who dies has done with > their lives, not for something in a box that is no longer a person. That is YOUR belief, but it may not be what others belief. If you had any respect, you would have sympathy for other people views. > As some may have guessed by now, I'm an atheist. AFAIC once you're dead, > you're just something that needs to be disposed of. I respect that view but do not share it. SignatureMrBitsy Rover 75 CDTi > That is YOUR belief, but it may not be what others belief. If you had any > respect, you would have sympathy for other people views. I would love to see a funeral procession driving onto the motorway and not giving way at the slip. We could have *months* of fun with that one! What a dilemma - "show respect" or "teach them a lesson"! Chris > Maybe so, but death ia fate that awaits us all.. > I see no reason why the death of a total stranger should impinge on the > lives of those who happen across their funeral procession. John Donne put it very nicely: "No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee." Ian >"No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes >me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know >for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee." thanks for raising the tone! SignatureBMW >I see no reason why the death of a total stranger should impinge on the >lives of those who happen across their funeral procession. indeed, why should we have any consideration for strangers? SignatureBMW >>I see no reason why the death of a total stranger should impinge on the >>lives of those who happen across their funeral procession. > > indeed, why should we have any consideration for strangers? If you think I meant that I think you need a lesson in comprehension. Mike. >>>I see no reason why the death of a total stranger should impinge on the >>>lives of those who happen across their funeral procession. >> >> indeed, why should we have any consideration for strangers? > >If you think I meant that I think you need a lesson in comprehension. the death of a stranger requires the consideration of the strangers attending the funeral. SignatureBMW >>>>I see no reason why the death of a total stranger should impinge on the >>>>lives of those who happen across their funeral procession. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the death of a stranger requires the consideration of the strangers > attending the funeral. Requires? There is no obligation for anyone to consider the feelings of strangers in a funeral procession. The majority might do so, for various reasons, but it should not be because it is required. That's a hypocritical reason IMO. Mike. >> the death of a stranger requires the consideration of the strangers >> attending the funeral. > >Requires? try reading for sense. >There is no obligation for anyone to consider the feelings of strangers in a >funeral procession. there's no obligation, its just what decent people do. >The majority might do so, for various reasons, but it >should not be because it is required. That's a hypocritical reason IMO. >Mike. do you know what hypocrisy means? SignatureBMW >>> the death of a stranger requires the consideration of the strangers >>> attending the funeral. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > do you know what hypocrisy means? How else would you describe someone who keeps behind for PC reasons? Or simply because it's required. Mike. >>>The majority might do so, for various reasons, but it >>>should not be because it is required. That's a hypocritical reason IMO. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >How else would you describe someone who keeps behind for PC reasons? Or >simply because it's required. they dont keep behind for "PC" reasons, they do so out of respect for the feelings of strangers. SignatureBMW >>>>The majority might do so, for various reasons, but it >>>>should not be because it is required. That's a hypocritical reason IMO. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > they dont keep behind for "PC" reasons, they do so out of respect for > the feelings of strangers. But my comment specifically excluded those that did so for genuinely sympathetic reasons. Which, in my cynical view, are probably in the minority. Mike. >> they dont keep behind for "PC" reasons, they do so out of respect for >> the feelings of strangers. > >But my comment specifically excluded those that did so for genuinely >sympathetic reasons. Which, in my cynical view, are probably in the >minority. that's your view, its not mine. SignatureBMW >>I will be in the limo on a funeral procession on Tuesday next week and >> Im wondering just how many over vehicles will break up the procession [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Why is it disrespectful to overtake a funeral procession? > Mike. Now the UK has had the doors opened to anyone who wants to come here and scrounge benefits, you have to realise that people have their own religious belief. Now that UK born people don't seem to be allowed freedom of speech and/or expression, why do you think others would even recognise a UK funeral? It's much the same as people born in the UK not recognising any other religious beliefs. It works both ways. >Now the UK has had the doors opened to anyone who wants to come here and >scrounge benefits, you have to realise that people have their own religious >belief. when people start a sentence that way you have to realize.... SignatureBMW >>I will be in the limo on a funeral procession on Tuesday next week and >> Im wondering just how many over vehicles will break up the procession >> en route from the church to the crem. I know that many people who post/ >> read here will have the respect that it deserves but perhaps there >> should be something a bit more formal. If there are any bad junctions or dual carriageways to get across etc, the police will send a constable out to stop the traffic. Well they did for us. >> I cant remember having read >> anything about funerals in the HC but maybe it warrants a mention. >> Just a thought. > >Another thought. >Why is it disrespectful to overtake a funeral procession? It's not, the issue is breaking up the cortage. Derek >I will be in the limo on a funeral procession on Tuesday next week and > Im wondering just how many over vehicles will break up the procession This is a UK DRIVING newsgroup. If you have a group of cars causing an obstruction for which they can be prosecuted under UK Law then you can see why people get annoyed. What gives anyone the right to drive extremely slowly and cause an obstruction? If you don't want people to break up your convoy, drive closer together. Next time, do try to read the title of the newsgroup. >> I will be in the limo on a funeral procession on Tuesday next week >> and Im wondering just how many over vehicles will break up the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > If you don't want people to break up your convoy, drive closer > together. Next time, do try to read the title of the newsgroup. I followed a very slow funeral procession the other day with the funeral director walking at the front of the hearse. I'm sorry but that is just ridiculous. Ret. >>> I will be in the limo on a funeral procession on Tuesday next week >>> and Im wondering just how many over vehicles will break up the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > director walking at the front of the hearse. I'm sorry but that is just > ridiculous. It was a families wish for gods sake, have some respect. It is not like you have to pass several funerals per day!!! SignatureMrBitsy Rover 75 CDTi >>>> I will be in the limo on a funeral procession on Tuesday next week >>>> and Im wondering just how many over vehicles will break up the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > It was a families wish for gods sake, have some respect. It is not > like you have to pass several funerals per day!!! And should the family's wishes always prevail, no matter what they are or how unreasonable? Ret. >> It was a families wish for gods sake, have some respect. It is not >> like you have to pass several funerals per day!!! > >And should the family's wishes always prevail, no matter what they are or >how unreasonable? are they unreasonable in the case in point? SignatureBMW >>> It was a families wish for gods sake, have some respect. It is not >>> like you have to pass several funerals per day!!! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > are they unreasonable in the case in point? FWIW, I would never overtake, nor cut into, a funeral procession. It's the way I was brought up. Having said that, I do not see any need for a funeral procession to crawl along at a snail's pace. I'm not suggesting that there should be a race to the church/crematorium - but I do not see any need for the crawl - and certainly not for the ridiculous practice of having a funeral director marching along on foot in front of the hearse. Ret. >> are they unreasonable in the case in point? > >FWIW, I would never overtake, nor cut into, a funeral procession. It's the >way I was brought up. understood >Having said that, I do not see any need for a funeral >procession to crawl along at a snail's pace. I'm not suggesting that there >should be a race to the church/crematorium - but I do not see any need for >the crawl - the thing is the slow march is traditionally associated with funerals, even if there's no clear logical reason why slow = respect >and certainly not for the ridiculous practice of having a >funeral director marching along on foot in front of the hearse. well, that's only for a few yards and breaking such traditions is hard, I bet its got shorter over the years SignatureBMW >>> are they unreasonable in the case in point? >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > well, that's only for a few yards and breaking such traditions is > hard, I bet its got shorter over the years All the funerals I have attended recently, including two parents, (one on my side and one on my wife's side), have deliberately *not* included funeral processions. We all made our own way to the crematorium and met the hearse there. This meant that there was no need for the funeral crawl. Better for the motoring public and better for the families because they can save on the cost of hiring funeral cars. The only funeral car needed is the hearse. Personally I don't believe that this is in any way disrespectful. I have already told my family that I want as little money as possible spent on my funeral. A cardboard coffin is fine by me. Why waste money on an expensive wooden coffin that is going to be burnt? I certainly don't want any religious input at my funeral. Apart from the fact that I'm an atheist, I believe that it is outrageous that a cleric should charge a fee for 'seeing off' one of his flock. Presiding over funerals should be part and parcel of his pastoral duties - not a nice little earner on the side. I think the practice of clerics charging for conducting funeral services is abhorrent and disgusting. Ret. >All the funerals I have attended recently, including two parents, (one on my >side and one on my wife's side), have deliberately *not* included funeral [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >cost of hiring funeral cars. The only funeral car needed is the hearse. >Personally I don't believe that this is in any way disrespectful. Yes, sounds fine to me. >I have already told my family that I want as little money as possible spent on my >funeral. A cardboard coffin is fine by me. Why waste money on an expensive >wooden coffin that is going to be burnt? Quite agree >I certainly don't want any religious input at my funeral. Apart from the >fact that I'm an atheist, I believe that it is outrageous that a cleric >should charge a fee for 'seeing off' one of his flock. Presiding over >funerals should be part and parcel of his pastoral duties - not a nice >little earner on the side. I think the practice of clerics charging for >conducting funeral services is abhorrent and disgusting. Well, yes and no. If we all took part in the church and didnt just use it for rites of passage I would agree. But as we tend to use it as a nice backdrop for wedding photos etc and ignore it the rest of the time I can see they have a case for charging. I haven't made any arrangements to avoid a Christian input as its just convenient to go with the flow. SignatureBMW >> All the funerals I have attended recently, including two parents, >> (one on my side and one on my wife's side), have deliberately *not* [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > I haven't made any arrangements to avoid a Christian input as its just > convenient to go with the flow. And handy 'insurance' - just in case..................... !! Ret. > I think the practice of clerics charging for > conducting funeral services is abhorrent and disgusting. Before they charged it was traditional to give them a present of some sort for conducting the service. This way is better for all concerned. Signature*Bills travel through the mail at twice the speed of cheques * Dave Plowman dave@davesound.co.uk London SW 12 >> I think the practice of clerics charging for >> conducting funeral services is abhorrent and disgusting. > > Before they charged it was traditional to give them a present of some sort > for conducting the service. This way is better for all concerned. A book of 'reality'? ;-) Gonad Dave Plowman <dave@davesound.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: >> I think the practice of clerics charging for conducting funeral >> services is abhorrent and disgusting. > Before they charged it was traditional to give them a present of some > sort for conducting the service. This way is better for all concerned. I'm trying - and failing - to understand why somebody shouldn't charge for performing a professional service at your request. <shrug> You wouldn't expect a plumber to not charge in favour of a "traditional" "present", after all. > Dave Plowman <dave@davesound.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding much like > they were saying: > >> I think the practice of clerics charging for conducting funeral > >> services is abhorrent and disgusting. > > Before they charged it was traditional to give them a present of some > > sort for conducting the service. This way is better for all concerned. > I'm trying - and failing - to understand why somebody shouldn't charge > for performing a professional service at your request. <shrug> > You wouldn't expect a plumber to not charge in favour of a "traditional" > "present", after all. Think the idea is you already pay for the cleric by your regular contributions to his church. That all falls down where you only use them for births marriages and deaths, of course. I've never quite understood why so many non church people have their children christened. Especially since it means they have to lie. Not a good example to those kids... Signature*Consciousness: That annoying time between naps. Dave Plowman dave@davesound.co.uk London SW 12 >> Dave Plowman <dave@davesound.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding much >> like they were saying: [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > children christened. Especially since it means they have to lie. Not a > good example to those kids... Many parents provide bad examples to their kids. That's why so many children behave as badly as they do. >> Dave Plowman <dave@davesound.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding much >> like they were saying: [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > children christened. Especially since it means they have to lie. Not a > good example to those kids... I agree. Just how many Godparents actually fulfill their obligations? 0.01% probably! I get so frustrated with the nonsense of religion. Hardly anyone in the UK is truly religious anymore - it's about time we accepted that fact and told the churches we no longer want any of their mumbo jumbo claptrap. Ret. Ret. >>> Dave Plowman <dave@davesound.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding much >>> like they were saying: [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Ret. I also heard, that the church owns a high proportion of our land(besides churches). I could be wrong though. Gonad >>>> Dave Plowman <dave@davesound.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding much >>>> like they were saying: [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >I also heard, that the church owns a high proportion of our land(besides >churches). I could be wrong though. Not wrong. Look under "Church Commissioners". >I agree. Just how many Godparents actually fulfill their obligations? 0.01% >probably! I can only speak for the people I know, but we all tend to. We dont have kids and dont want any, so we accepted the role except for the taking them on full time if the parents were killed, which someone else with kids took on. >I get so frustrated with the nonsense of religion. Hardly anyone in the UK >is truly religious anymore - it's about time we accepted that fact and told >the churches we no longer want any of their mumbo jumbo claptrap. I saw a survey that about 50% believe in god, of course very few go to church. SignatureBMW >> Dave Plowman <dave@davesound.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding much like >> they were saying: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > children christened. Especially since it means they have to lie. Not a > good example to those kids... I don't believe in God and I didn't get mine christened. Gonad >I don't believe in God and I didn't get mine christened. Lightening will strike you. And you will die. >Gonad Derek >> I don't believe in God and I didn't get mine christened. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> > Derek Are you the God that some people talk about? Gonad > >> I don't believe in God and I didn't get mine christened. > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Gonad No, *I'm* God. SignatureHalmyre That's you that is. >>> Dave Plowman <dave@davesound.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding much like >>> they were saying: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >> > I don't believe in God and I didn't get mine christened. Same here. I didn't see any point in it. Mike. > In article <6tomjnFbttp3...@mid.individual.net>, > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > children christened. Especially since it means they have to lie. Not a > good example to those kids... I think they should wait until the child decides which religion, if any, it wants to follow! -- Halmyre >> In article <6tomjnFbttp3...@mid.individual.net>, >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > I think they should wait until the child decides which religion, if > any, it wants to follow! The problem is that children are frequently indoctrinated to believe and therefore have no real 'mind of their own'. Why are there so few atheists or christians in, say, Iran? Because the indoctrination in Muslim countries is overwhelming. Ret. > I think they should wait until the child decides which religion, if > any, it wants to follow! It's a very difficult thing for anyone from a humanist tradition. For a start the state gives no particular rights to those who know that all religion is a load of old tosh. The rights of those who have an irrational, indeed insane, belief in the sky-fairies are enshrined in law and protected to a ludicrous extent. And among the rights that they protect most jealously is there belief that they know better than the mere parents what is good for children. So, while the children are safely at school, far from the interfering parents, some brain-dead loony with an axe to grind is set loose, with the sanction of the state, to brainwash children into believing in something that isn't there. And while they're at it, they attempt to give the child a complete set of phobias and hang-ups such as "sin". If one, as a parent, complains these same busy-bodies will file social reports and attempt to portray the parents as vile Satan-worshipping monsters unfit to be in charge of their own kids. So, I was most pleased with my grandson who was told at home that religion was a matter for him to decide and that he should consider it when he was old enough to make a decision, that he did indeed thinka bout for himself, from an early age. At school he was bullied by teachers who demanded that he believe in god. They fed him the bullshit, gave him pamphlets, forced him to write essays on the subjec to religion and ridculed his efforts if he failed to parrot back their line in bullshit. But when he got to the age of 14 he told me he'd been thinking about it, and religion was a crock of sh.t. Well done that man, I'm proud of him. And no, he was not subject to proselytisation by his atheist parents and grandparents. He came to the decision by himself. >> I think they should wait until the child decides which religion, if >> any, it wants to follow! <snip> > Well done that man, I'm proud of him. And no, he was not subject to > proselytisation by his atheist parents and grandparents. He came to the > decision by himself. You know what? We had that exact same discussion with my two boys (8 and 14) recently. They have always been left to make their own mind up - and both seem to have come to the same conclusion I did when I was a kid. i.e. It keeps the thicker people happy, so let it be. "The world holds two classes of men: intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence. - Abu al-Ala al-Ma’arri" He's an interesting bloke, actually. Quite ahead of his time: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ma%60arri> >i.e. It keeps the thicker people happy, so let it be. > >"The world holds two classes of men: > intelligent men without religion, > and religious men without intelligence. "don't give me knowledge, give me certainty SignatureBMW >I think they should wait until the child decides which religion, if >any, it wants to follow! if you dont indoctrinate them young, few will take it up later. SignatureBMW > Dave Plowman <dave@davesound.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding much > like they were saying: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > You wouldn't expect a plumber to not charge in favour of a > "traditional" "present", after all. Accepted. But then a plumber is not paid a wage to provide a service to a community is he? Perhaps police officers should charge for turning out at your request, or to deal with your traffic accident? A vicar is paid a salary to provide services to his parishioners. I don't see why those 'services' should not include conducting christenings, weddings and funerals. Bit like an ambulance driver taking you to hospital - but then demanding payment for wheeling you into A&E. Ret. > Accepted. But then a plumber is not paid a wage to provide a service to > a community is he? Neither is a cleric. He's paid to provide a service to his flock. Or perhaps you think a Rabbi would be fine at C of E service? Signature*If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular? Dave Plowman dave@davesound.co.uk London SW 12 >> Accepted. But then a plumber is not paid a wage to provide a service >> to a community is he? > > Neither is a cleric. He's paid to provide a service to his flock. Or > perhaps you think a Rabbi would be fine at C of E service? Either way - even if the deceased was a regular attendee at his church- he will still charge for officiating at the funeral. Ret. >> I think the practice of clerics charging for >> conducting funeral services is abhorrent and disgusting. > > Before they charged it was traditional to give them a present of some > sort for conducting the service. This way is better for all concerned. I can't see how it is 'better' for the nok to have to dip into their pockets to pay a cleric for services that I believe should be included within his/her normal pastoral duties. Ret. >>>> are they unreasonable in the case in point? >>> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > is the hearse. > Personally I don't believe that this is in any way disrespectful. I That is fine, but if you do meet a procession, then that family have THEIR reasons for wanting one - respect their wishes. This is beyond belief anyway - I have probably passed a handful of funeral processions in my lifetime. I have seen my parents, grandparents, aunt and uncle die in the last 15 years. I have seen people stop walking and bow their heads as we pass. I have seen drivers going the other way slow down as they pass. That really was respectful of them and I certainly appreciated the gesture. However, I have also seen drivers overtake and sound their horn - really awful that others show such little respect. SignatureMrBitsy Rover 75 CDTi >>>>> are they unreasonable in the case in point? >>>> [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > I have also seen drivers overtake and sound their horn - really awful that > others show such little respect. Nobody cares, I'm afraid we're living amongst arsehole low life. > However, >> I have also seen drivers overtake and sound their horn - really awful that >> others show such little respect. > >Nobody cares, I'm afraid we're living amongst arsehole low life. *some* don't care SignatureBMW > I have seen people stop walking and bow their heads as we pass. I >have seen drivers going the other way slow down as they pass. yep. SignatureBMW >> I have seen people stop walking and bow their heads as we pass. I >>have seen drivers going the other way slow down as they pass. > >yep. decent people will put themselves out when they see people are attending a funeral, I got slightly lost going to an after funeral wake once, I stopped to ask directions, wearing black tie and suit and the chap I asked didnt know but quickly knocked up his neighbour, you could see they were making maximum effort to help. SignatureBMW >>> I have seen people stop walking and bow their heads as we pass. I >>> have seen drivers going the other way slow down as they pass. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > the chap I asked didnt know but quickly knocked up his neighbour, you > could see they were making maximum effort to help. Well, getting your neighbour pregnant as a mark of respect is taking things a bit too far I reckon.... Ret. >>>> I have seen people stop walking and bow their heads as we pass. I >>>> have seen drivers going the other way slow down as they pass. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Ret. Gives a new meaning to 'friendly neighbours. Gonad >>>> I have seen people stop walking and bow their heads as we pass. I >>>> have seen drivers going the other way slow down as they pass. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Ret.It gives a new meaning to 'friendly neighbours. Gonad >but quickly knocked up his neighbour, you >> could see they were making maximum effort to help. > >Well, getting your neighbour pregnant as a mark of respect is taking things >a bit too far I reckon.... LOL, yes, its an original excuse though. SignatureBMW >>>>> are they unreasonable in the case in point? >>>> [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > gesture. However, I have also seen drivers overtake and sound their > horn - really awful that others show such little respect. I have already stated that I would never overtake, or cut into, a funeral procession. That does not mean that I do not believe that they are a nonsense. Ret. || I have already stated that I would never overtake, or cut into, a || funeral procession. That does not mean that I do not believe that || they are a nonsense. Never? I guess you kept that to yourself during your police driving career. SignatureRob >>> I have already stated that I would never overtake, or cut into, a >>> funeral procession. That does not mean that I do not believe that >>> they are a nonsense. > > Never? I guess you kept that to yourself during your police driving > career. I was thinking more from the point of view of me as a private driver. SFAICR, I never came across a funeral procession when I was on a 'shout'. I suppose that I would have had little alternative but to overtake in an emergency situation. You wouldn't, for example, expect an ambulance rushing someone to hospital on blues and twos to slow down and crawl along behind a cortege! Ret. >expect an ambulance rushing >someone to hospital on blues and twos to slow down and crawl along behind a >cortege! the ambulance behind the funeral is putting the cart before the horse SignatureBMW >>expect an ambulance rushing >>someone to hospital on blues and twos to slow down and crawl along behind a >>cortege! > >the ambulance behind the funeral is putting the cart before the horse The opposite is also the case. ;-) Derek >>>> I will be in the limo on a funeral procession on Tuesday next week >>>> and Im wondering just how many over vehicles will break up the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > It was a families wish for gods sake, have some respect. It is not like > you have to pass several funerals per day!!! They only walk to the end of your own road, then the flag walker gets into the hearse. Gonad >> It was a families wish for gods sake, have some respect. It is not like >> you have to pass several funerals per day!!! >> >They only walk to the end of your own road, then the flag walker >gets into the hearse. I reckon I'm held up a few minutes a year. OT What do you do as pedestrians? When I was young, a cortege passed as I walked near a uniformed policeman (a "beat bobby"), he switched into a march and saluted. That experience made an impression and ever since I have always removed my hat as they pass, although its only ever been a hood or "bobble hat", as I dont wear hats as such. SignatureBMW >I followed a very slow funeral procession the other day with the funeral >director walking at the front of the hearse. I'm sorry but that is just >ridiculous. It's getting more and more popular, usually with a rather dishy girl like "Cat Balou" in kinky boots walking in front. You can't knock it, it gets all that phlegm off your chest. Usually for only 2-3 houses either side of the deceased's erstwile dwelling, though. :-( Derek >I followed a very slow funeral procession the other day with the funeral >director walking at the front of the hearse. I'm sorry but that is just >ridiculous. they normally do that for the first hundred yards or so. SignatureBMW > >I followed a very slow funeral procession the other day with the > >funeral director walking at the front of the hearse. I'm sorry but > >that is just ridiculous. > they normally do that for the first hundred yards or so. And/or near the end of the journey? Signature*All men are idiots, and I married their King. Dave Plowman dave@davesound.co.uk London SW 12 >> they normally do that for the first hundred yards or so. > >And/or near the end of the journey? I don't remember that but it could be poor observation. SignatureBMW >>> they normally do that for the first hundred yards or so. >> And/or near the end of the journey? > > I don't remember that but it could be poor observation. I can confirm,that they do. Gonad >>>> they normally do that for the first hundred yards or so. >>> And/or near the end of the journey? >> >> I don't remember that but it could be poor observation. > >I can confirm,that they do. I live near a burnatorium in a large park/boneyard. If they do it's within the confines of the park and not round the Leeds Ring Road alongside B&Q and PC World ! derek >>I can confirm,that they do. > >I live near a burnatorium in a large park/boneyard. > >If they do it's within the confines of the park and not round the >Leeds Ring Road alongside B&Q and PC World ! I think that's why I've not noticed, its inside the crematorium grounds usually. Its also at a moment when your attention is on making a dignified and correct arrival etc. SignatureBMW > >> they normally do that for the first hundred yards or so. > > > >And/or near the end of the journey? > I don't remember that but it could be poor observation. There's a fairly busy crematorium not far from here and I've seen it a few times. Of course it could be the whole journey was very short so it was for the full distance. Signature*Honk if you love peace and quiet. Dave Plowman dave@davesound.co.uk London SW 12 > I followed a very slow funeral procession the other day with the funeral > director walking at the front of the hearse. I'm sorry but that is just > ridiculous. I've only been in a funeral procession once. The lead car was 100 yards from the junction onto the main road. A bloke in a top hat walked in front. I wondered how long it would take as we were around 15 miles from where we were going. Once the lead car was ready to turn left onto the main road, the man in front stopped the traffic & then jumped into the hearse as it pulled onto the main road. We then drove at normal speeds until we got to the crematorium, where once inside the grounds we drove at a slow pace to the crematorium itself. This would perhaps explain why the man walking in the road doesn't exactly get seen much, not do hearse convoys drive everywhere at 5mph. >I've only been in a funeral procession once. >The lead car was 100 yards from the junction onto the main road. A bloke [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >This would perhaps explain why the man walking in the road doesn't >exactly get seen much, not do hearse convoys drive everywhere at 5mph. this is unfair, introducing realism into the thread. SignatureBMW >> I've only been in a funeral procession once. >> The lead car was 100 yards from the junction onto the main road. A bloke [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > this is unfair, introducing realism into the thread. Quit whining, I put a spelling mistake in there for someone to bitch about!! "much, not do hearse" > >I will be in the limo on a funeral procession on Tuesday next week and > > Im wondering just how many over vehicles will break up the procession [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > then you can see why people get annoyed. What gives anyone the right to > drive extremely slowly and cause an obstruction? Not everything is covered by "rights". Common humanity and courtesy, for example. Ian > I will be in the limo on a funeral procession on Tuesday next week and > Im wondering just how many over vehicles will break up the procession [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > anything about funerals in the HC but maybe it warrants a mention. > Just a thought. I overtook one once because they were being twats and holding up traffic on a perfectly straight A-road at 40 mph. Graham >> I will be in the limo on a funeral procession on Tuesday next week and >> Im wondering just how many over vehicles will break up the procession [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Graham Bravo Graham, you should be proud. The end of someones (40mph) life (maybe your Mom?) is so inconsiderate. My god, we're all living amongst complete arseholes. >My god, we're all living amongst complete arseholes. this NG has a much higher % of arseholes that society. SignatureBMW >> I overtook one once because they were being twats and holding up >> traffic on [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > The end of someones (40mph) life (maybe your Mom?) is so inconsiderate. > My god, we're all living amongst complete arseholes. Hmm. I have respect for funeral processions, and wouldn't pull into the middle of one. However in that circumstance where I could be pretty sure of getting right past before having to pull back in, I'd do it. It's different. The act of overtaking isn't disrespectful, but pulling into the middle of it between the 'car with his wife and kids in' in and 'the car with his brother and sister in' *would* be disrespectful. IMHO. Respect is what makes society run smoothly. >I will be in the limo on a funeral procession on Tuesday next week and > Im wondering just how many over vehicles will break up the procession > en route from the church to the crem. I know that many people who post/ > read here will have the respect that it deserves You think so? It doesn't look like it to me, nobody gives a sh.t, it seems. The place is full of (stiff upper lipped 2009) arseholes. |
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