Car Forum / UK Car Forums / Driving (UK group) / April 2004
How slow?
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Peter - 12 Apr 2004 15:25 GMT I have a query about the highway code, which has confused me. It's rule 131 about traffic calming. Part of it says,
"When you approach these features reduce your speed."
I've never been taught to do this and I certainly don't normally do this, but what does it mean? What if it's a completely empty road with a 20mph or 30mph limit, you'd be supposed to drive at less than 20mph or 30mph wouldn't you? What if you've got the same situation, but with somebody behind you? Would you break this rule by driving at the speed limit or break the rule about comming into confilict with other road users by causing road rage?
Anyway, how slow would you go in these situations? 1mph under the limit, 5mph under, or really slow?
PeterE - 12 Apr 2004 15:34 GMT > I have a query about the highway code, which has confused me. It's > rule 131 about traffic calming. Part of it says, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Anyway, how slow would you go in these situations? 1mph under the > limit, 5mph under, or really slow? If you keep driving over road humps in 30 limits at 30 you'll rapidly knacker your suspension.
In my experience few road humps can be comfortably negotiated above 20 mph in a normal car.
I was taught by the IAM to maintain a fairly constant speed through traffic-calmed areas, but to lift off the gas when approaching a hump, and accelerate gently once over it.
-- http://www.speedlimit.org.uk "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." (William Pitt, 1783)
Peter - 12 Apr 2004 18:49 GMT > > I have a query about the highway code, which has confused me. It's > > rule 131 about traffic calming. Part of it says, [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > traffic-calmed areas, but to lift off the gas when approaching a hump, and > accelerate gently once over it. Ah yeah, humps make perfect sense, but what about chicanes? The HWC has a picture of a chicane by the rule and clearly indicates that you should slow for chichanes. Maybe it does just mean humps?
I get a lot of speed cusions around here which I have mentioned before. They can't be negotiated comfortably at any speed. I find that the best thing in my car is to drive between the humps in the middle of the road, with some roads you won't even touch the bump, but with most you just get slight bump. I find that with speed cusions faster is almost always better, for a few reasons. I'll take the chance with wearing out shocks etc, I just find that a slow speeds (<25mph) my back starts to ache after about 20 of them. I have some on the way to work though which are so bad that my wheels spin as I go over at just 30mph :-o
In Reading the IAM technique would probably cause a lot of road rage, although it is a very good technique. I'm far too impatient though when I've got more than 20 of them ahead of me.
Doki - 12 Apr 2004 18:54 GMT > I get a lot of speed cusions around here which I have mentioned > before. They can't be negotiated comfortably at any speed. Get a wider car, and you should be able to get a wheel either side on *most* speed cushions, though you occasionally encounter wide ones.
Doug - 12 Apr 2004 22:19 GMT > > I get a lot of speed cusions around here which I have mentioned > > before. They can't be negotiated comfortably at any speed. > > Get a wider car, and you should be able to get a wheel either side on *most* > speed cushions, though you occasionally encounter wide ones. A wheel either side isn't always a good thing. Encountered bumps in pairs at the weekend where I could have got a wheel either side (in my wee spitfire) but instead I took to the middle of the road and put a wheel on each bump. Preferred this as it meant my exhaust would still be in the same place afterwards.
Silk - 12 Apr 2004 20:29 GMT > In Reading the IAM technique would probably cause a lot of road rage, > although it is a very good technique. I'm far too impatient though > when I've got more than 20 of them ahead of me. I'm not sure there is an IAM technique. If there is, no one's mentioned it to me. I'm an IAM observer and recommend, for the cushion types in my area at least, that faster is best. Up to the speed limit that is.
This is just based on my personal experience. There are various types and there is probably no "official" way of dealing with them. "Advanced" driving is not just about following a set of rules, it's also about planning and using your own judgement and common sense.
Ian Bailey - 14 Apr 2004 07:40 GMT > > I have a query about the highway code, which has confused me. It's > > rule 131 about traffic calming. Part of it says, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > If you keep driving over road humps in 30 limits at 30 you'll rapidly > knacker your suspension. Can never understand why speed bumps in a 30 limit aren't designed to be taken at 30. Or for that matter, there's one in Rotherham in a 40 limit thats 15mph max....
Ian
Peter - 14 Apr 2004 12:26 GMT > > > I have a query about the highway code, which has confused me. It's > > > rule 131 about traffic calming. Part of it says, [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Ian Ah, it depends what car you've got. An expensive BMW will probably be completely different to a Fiat Punto. They are stupid though, and partly fo this reason.
Conor - 15 Apr 2004 11:37 GMT > Can never understand why speed bumps in a 30 limit aren't designed to > be taken at 30. Or for that matter, there's one in Rotherham in a 40 > limit thats 15mph max.... Underhanded speed limit reduction. They've successfully brought the limit down to the 20MPH region without the need to put up 20MPH signage which'd show their true intent.
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Stevie D - 12 Apr 2004 17:46 GMT > I have a query about the highway code, which has confused me. It's > rule 131 about traffic calming. Part of it says, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the speed limit or break the rule about comming into confilict with > other road users by causing road rage? The general idea behind traffic calming features is to slow traffic down. Most speed humps are uncomfortable at 30mph, and will fairly quickly damage your car. Chicanes can be dangerous if taken too fast. And so on.
You should slow down to a speed that allows you to negotiate the hazards comfortably and safely. Sometimes this might mean that you don't need to slow below the speed limit, other times you might need to slow down to 20mph or less, depending on the nature of the hazards.
Use your judgment! The chances are that the driver behind either will be slowing down for the hazards anyway, or is an idiot who will just keep driving around until he finds someone to hassle and give road rage to.
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Doki - 12 Apr 2004 18:41 GMT > I have a query about the highway code, which has confused me. It's > rule 131 about traffic calming. Part of it says, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Anyway, how slow would you go in these situations? 1mph under the > limit, 5mph under, or really slow? I slow down until the speedhump can be driven over comfortably. For some this means carrying on at 30mph, others (those plastic ones you sometimes get at supermarkets and stations particularly) mean slowing down to tickover in first. Whoever's behind can wait or overtake.
MeatballTurbo - 12 Apr 2004 22:34 GMT > (those plastic ones you sometimes > get at supermarkets and stations particularly I hate those things. Most speed bumps are just annoyance. But those things are garaunteed to knock my exhaust off it's mountings, everytime.
Kind of undignified driving a Saab, then getting out crawling underneath, and come out with your hands covered in thrown up road crap.
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Depresion - 12 Apr 2004 22:54 GMT > > (those plastic ones you sometimes > > get at supermarkets and stations particularly > > > I hate those things. > Most speed bumps are just annoyance. But those things are garaunteed to > knock my exhaust off it's mountings, everytime. Yep exhaust has come off its rear mount on the jetta today at a DIY store.
MeatballTurbo - 13 Apr 2004 10:07 GMT > > > (those plastic ones you sometimes > > > get at supermarkets and stations particularly [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Yep exhaust has come off its rear mount on the jetta today at a DIY store. Nasty isn't it. You drive a car that was designed before speed bumps and have to suffer for it. Just because my car will do 135 doesn't mean I will try to do it on a Sainsburys car park.
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Peter - 13 Apr 2004 12:46 GMT > > I have a query about the highway code, which has confused me. It's > > rule 131 about traffic calming. Part of it says, [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > get at supermarkets and stations particularly) mean slowing down to tickover > in first. Whoever's behind can wait or overtake. I couldn't do that with some humps, believe me it would take me more than twice as long to get to work! However some are a first gear job, like the massive one at the bottom of my road and in car parks, like the ones you mentioned.
Doki - 13 Apr 2004 14:31 GMT > I couldn't do that with some humps, believe me it would take me more > than twice as long to get to work! However some are a first gear job, > like the massive one at the bottom of my road and in car parks, like > the ones you mentioned. You live about 5 minutes from work so you're probably not getting off of residential / urban streets. As umpteen people have said before, walk or get a bike.
Peter - 13 Apr 2004 20:29 GMT > > I couldn't do that with some humps, believe me it would take me more > > than twice as long to get to work! However some are a first gear job, > > like the massive one at the bottom of my road and in car parks, like > > the ones you mentioned. > > You live about 5 minutes from work so you're probably not getting off of 10 mins!
> residential / urban streets. As umpteen people have said before, walk or get > a bike. Nope! I'll be leaving my part time job within a few months anyway and I'll only be working at my other place. On my journey to the other place my car does get up to full temp, it also gets a very thourough work out. 4,700rpm from cold, but then into 4th, up a slight hill at 50mph. It's weird, my engine gives more of a roar now with different spark plug gaps :-o
Doki - 14 Apr 2004 01:31 GMT >>> I couldn't do that with some humps, believe me it would take me more >>> than twice as long to get to work! However some are a first gear [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > 50mph. It's weird, my engine gives more of a roar now with different > spark plug gaps :-o You ought to hear the sound a 1.0 Polo makes as you do 30 in first gear at full throttle whilst left foot braking in a feeble attempt to clear all the shite out of the engine. It's been beautifuly coked up again by my mum after I cleared it out with a week of merciless hammering.
Peter - 14 Apr 2004 12:31 GMT > >>> I couldn't do that with some humps, believe me it would take me more > >>> than twice as long to get to work! However some are a first gear [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > shite out of the engine. It's been beautifuly coked up again by my mum after > I cleared it out with a week of merciless hammering. lol! My car only does a max of about 26mph in 1st. Left foot braking would probably work well, although my pedals are too small :-(. I tried getting both feet on the pedals while stationary and had no chance :-( My engine's going beatiful now, I gave it full throttle today and it sounded normal (apart from a slight drone from my dodgy exhaust). I was stuck behind a cyclist (doing about 20mph) on a 50mph road with double white lines, you're not supposed to overtake but it was completely clear and the cars behind were impatient. The chance I took though was probably the only safe gap, the car behind would've probably have been lucky.
Nick Finnigan - 12 Apr 2004 20:14 GMT > I have a query about the highway code, which has confused me. It's > rule 131 about traffic calming. Part of it says, > > "When you approach these features reduce your speed." Anything which recommends 'reduce your speed' is badly thought out (e.g. you've stopped to let oncoming traffic past). It generally means the speed limit might be too fast.
Stevie D - 13 Apr 2004 19:41 GMT > Anything which recommends 'reduce your speed' is badly > thought out (e.g. you've stopped to let oncoming traffic past). > It generally means the speed limit might be too fast. The speed limit does not give a proscriptive speed at which it will be safe to drive.
On many roads, you will need to slow down below the speed limit for bends, blind crests, junctions, speed humps &c., even though for *most* of the road the speed limit is appropriate and sensible. In these situations, I think recommending "Reduce speed" is a perfectly reasonably thing to do.
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PeterE - 13 Apr 2004 19:45 GMT > On many roads, you will need to slow down below the speed limit for > bends, blind crests, junctions, speed humps &c., even though for > *most* of the road the speed limit is appropriate and sensible. In > these situations, I think recommending "Reduce speed" is a perfectly > reasonably thing to do. And anyone with an ounce of common sense will realise if they are already driving *very* slowly there is no need to reduce speed further.
-- http://www.speedlimit.org.uk "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." (William Pitt, 1783)
W K - 14 Apr 2004 09:19 GMT > > On many roads, you will need to slow down below the speed limit for > > bends, blind crests, junctions, speed humps &c., even though for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > And anyone with an ounce of common sense will realise if they are already > driving *very* slowly there is no need to reduce speed further. Wonderful.
Of course, I hope you don't mean that 65 on a rural A road, or 38 in a 30 is "*very* slowly"
Nick Finnigan - 13 Apr 2004 20:46 GMT > > Anything which recommends 'reduce your speed' is badly > > thought out (e.g. you've stopped to let oncoming traffic past). > > It generally means the speed limit might be too fast. > > The speed limit does not give a proscriptive speed at which it will be > safe to drive. That's right, most people generally drive faster, safely.
> On many roads, you will need to slow down below the speed limit for > bends, blind crests, junctions, speed humps &c., even though for > *most* of the road the speed limit is appropriate and sensible. In > these situations, I think recommending "Reduce speed" is a perfectly > reasonably thing to do. So "reduce speed" means driving at the limit is inappropriate.
Stevie D - 13 Apr 2004 22:15 GMT > So "reduce speed" means driving at the limit is inappropriate. For the duration of one hazard, yes. But unless you are going to assess individually every single bend, crest, junction, pot-hole and access point, and then sign them all with variable signs that change according to meteorological conditions, volume of traffic, number of pedestrians, and so forth ... *of course* there will be times when the limit will be inappropriate.
Or did you have a better idea?
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Nick Finnigan - 13 Apr 2004 23:47 GMT > > So "reduce speed" means driving at the limit is inappropriate. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > pedestrians, and so forth ... *of course* there will be times when the > limit will be inappropriate. If driving at the speed limit is inappropriate, but driving 9mph below the limit is safe, the speed limit itself is appropriate.
> Or did you have a better idea? Speed limits with graduations of roughly 6.25 mph.
Peter - 14 Apr 2004 12:36 GMT > > > So "reduce speed" means driving at the limit is inappropriate. > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > If driving at the speed limit is inappropriate, but driving 9mph > below the limit is safe, the speed limit itself is appropriate. No, speed limits are limits, not targets. The driver should choose an appropriate speed. The limits are merely little more than 'advice' and a way of fining drivers. I don't think it's necessary for roads to have the exact limits everywhere, if you approach a bend you don't want to see a sign with a 27mph limit on it do you?
> > Or did you have a better idea? > > Speed limits with graduations of roughly 6.25 mph. Nick Finnigan - 14 Apr 2004 16:56 GMT > > If driving at the speed limit is inappropriate, but driving 9mph > > below the limit is safe, the speed limit itself is appropriate. > > No, speed limits are limits, not targets. At the moment it seems we have signs like 'reduce speed' when they are not a target.
>The driver should choose an > appropriate speed. The limits are merely little more than 'advice' > and a way of fining drivers. I don't think it's necessary for roads > to have the exact limits everywhere, if you approach a bend you don't > want to see a sign with a 27mph limit on it do you? No, I've stated that the speed limit is appropriate, if there is an appropriate speed within 9mph of it.
Doki - 14 Apr 2004 17:57 GMT >> "Nick Finnigan" <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote in message > news:<c5hqki$1sihf$1@ID-118255.news.uni-berlin.de>... [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > No, I've stated that the speed limit is appropriate, > if there is an appropriate speed within 9mph of it. So the council ought to be out putting up lower limits on every rural B-road then? On a road near me, it's quite possible to drive safely at 100, but 1/2 a mile later you'd be mad to be doing more than 20.
Nick Finnigan - 14 Apr 2004 19:00 GMT > > No, I've stated that the speed limit is appropriate, > > if there is an appropriate speed within 9mph of it. > > So the council ought to be out putting up lower limits on every rural B-road > then? On a road near me, it's quite possible to drive safely at 100, but 1/2 > a mile later you'd be mad to be doing more than 20. Is there a (specific) speed limit on that road?
scott - 14 Apr 2004 19:17 GMT > > > No, I've stated that the speed limit is appropriate, > > > if there is an appropriate speed within 9mph of it. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Is there a (specific) speed limit on that road? There are loads of roads like that near me, out of the towns, lots of fast bits and lots of sharp corners. They are all 60 limits (for cars). On some of the more major roads they have warning signs for sharp corners but on the whites they don't normally.
Nick Finnigan - 14 Apr 2004 20:42 GMT > > Is there a (specific) speed limit on that road? > > There are loads of roads like that near me, out of the towns, lots of fast > bits and lots of sharp corners. They are all 60 limits (for cars). Specific 60mph limits set on each roads, or just NSL?
scott - 14 Apr 2004 21:15 GMT > > > Is there a (specific) speed limit on that road? > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Specific 60mph limits set on each roads, or just NSL? I've never seen a "specific 60 limit" (ie sign with 60 on it) where the NSL speed is 60. The only place I've seen them are where the NSL is 70, ie DC. I was talking about SCs, so the NSL is 60.
Andy Tucker - 15 Apr 2004 12:14 GMT > > > > Is there a (specific) speed limit on that road? > > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > speed is 60. The only place I've seen them are where the NSL is 70, ie DC. > I was talking about SCs, so the NSL is 60. ISTR that the A556 approaching the M56 on Bucklow Hill is like that - a specific 60 limit where NSL is 60. That's only because there's 2 lanes in each direction, but no CR. Some numpties think that NSL is 70 along here.
Andy
Richard Bullock - 15 Apr 2004 18:05 GMT > ISTR that the A556 approaching the M56 on Bucklow Hill is like that - > a specific 60 limit where NSL is 60. That's only because there's 2 > lanes in each direction, but no CR. Some numpties think that NSL is 70 > along here. Yes, a farly rare 60 sign on a single carriageway road - I think there are some on the A361 in North Devon as well. I believe that several truckers have gotten caught on the A556, exceeding the 40mph limit for LGVs (as it's a 4-lane single carriageway - not dual carriageway)
Richard
Doki - 15 Apr 2004 18:43 GMT >> ISTR that the A556 approaching the M56 on Bucklow Hill is like that - >> a specific 60 limit where NSL is 60. That's only because there's 2 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > limit for LGVs (as it's a 4-lane single carriageway - not dual > carriageway) I was once on an unclassified road, probably somewhere in North Notts, and saw a "Dual Carriageway Ahead" sign. I thought it had been put there by mistake, but a couple of hundred yards further on, the road split in two, with a grass, tree lined central reservation...
Richard Bullock - 15 Apr 2004 19:46 GMT > I was once on an unclassified road, probably somewhere in North Notts, and > saw a "Dual Carriageway Ahead" sign. I thought it had been put there by > mistake, but a couple of hundred yards further on, the road split in two, > with a grass, tree lined central reservation... A lot of unclassified dual carriageways will probably have been A-roads in the past, but the A-roads have now been bypassed/re-aligned or re-routed, as has frequently happened through the years since the A/B classification started in the 1920s
Richard
Stevie D - 15 Apr 2004 19:47 GMT > I've never seen a "specific 60 limit" (ie sign with 60 on it) where the NSL > speed is 60. The only place I've seen them are where the NSL is 70, ie DC. > I was talking about SCs, so the NSL is 60. There are some on the A303, A1 and A66, where they are used to remind drivers that they have come off umpteen hundred miles of 70mph duel carriageway and have to slow down a little and watch out for oncoming traffic.
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Doki - 14 Apr 2004 19:34 GMT >>> No, I've stated that the speed limit is appropriate, >>> if there is an appropriate speed within 9mph of it. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Is there a (specific) speed limit on that road? NSL, so 60. As there are no traffic police and no cameras on the road, there isn't an enforced limit.
Nick Finnigan - 14 Apr 2004 20:53 GMT > >>> No, I've stated that the speed limit is appropriate, > >>> if there is an appropriate speed within 9mph of it. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > NSL, so 60. As there are no traffic police and no cameras on the road, there > isn't an enforced limit. Well the NSL of 60mph might be inappropriate, but it is irrelevent in practice given not only the low enforcement but very high levels of compliance. I see no inappropiate speed limits set for that road.
scott - 14 Apr 2004 12:51 GMT > > > So "reduce speed" means driving at the limit is inappropriate. > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > If driving at the speed limit is inappropriate, but driving 9mph > below the limit is safe, the speed limit itself is appropriate. Oh dear oh dear.
Nick Finnigan - 14 Apr 2004 17:04 GMT > > If driving at the speed limit is inappropriate, but driving 9mph > > below the limit is safe, the speed limit itself is appropriate. > > Oh dear oh dear. What's the matter? Do you think speed limits should always be less than the average speed of cars on a road?
scott - 14 Apr 2004 17:43 GMT > > > If driving at the speed limit is inappropriate, but driving 9mph > > > below the limit is safe, the speed limit itself is appropriate. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > What's the matter? Do you think speed limits should always > be less than the average speed of cars on a road? You've brought up a good point. In my road where I live, the limit is 30, and I estimate the average speed to be about 15-20 (it's very narrow and twisty, kids playing, cats etc). There is another road near me that is wide and dead straight, fields on one side, big bank, fence and then peoples' back gardens on the other side. This is also a 30 limit, but I suspect the average speed is over 40. To make matters worse, further along it changes to a 40 limit and then there are terraced houses *right* on the pavement with no front gardens.
It seems to me as if someone has just randomly picked speed limits from the hat, as IMO none of them are appropiate.
a - 12 Apr 2004 20:44 GMT > I have a query about the highway code, which has confused me. It's > rule 131 about traffic calming. Part of it says, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Anyway, how slow would you go in these situations? 1mph under the > limit, 5mph under, or really slow? While we're at it, what is the best way or riding the smaller humps where you get 2 or 3 across the road? I normally straddle them, and the wheels just go over the slanted edges of the hump - you can go over these pretty much without slowing down. However, I have just had new tyres put on and the tracking was well out - I am wondering if constantly going over these slanted edges has been enough to push the wheels out. Is it better to go over the centre of the hump with one side of the car (which necessitates a much slower speed)?
cheers
Da.
Stevie D - 13 Apr 2004 19:41 GMT > While we're at it, what is the best way or riding the smaller humps where > you get 2 or 3 across the road? I normally straddle them, and the wheels [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > over the centre of the hump with one side of the car (which necessitates a > much slower speed)? The technical name for these is speed cushions.
It will depend partly on your car. Some cars are not wide enough to straddle them, so you will always get a bump. Some cars are too low to straddle them - especially when heavily loaded - so you will have to bounce one wheel over them.
I used to drive over a long run of these at 30-40mph on a regular basis, and on my car there is just the faintest of touches doing that. The tracking was still spot on afterwards.
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Conor - 12 Apr 2004 21:22 GMT > I have a query about the highway code, which has confused me. It's > rule 131 about traffic calming. Part of it says, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Anyway, how slow would you go in these situations? 1mph under the > limit, 5mph under, or really slow? Do you have a full licence? If you do how the hell did you manage to get it?
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MeatballTurbo - 12 Apr 2004 22:36 GMT > Do you have a full licence? If you do how the hell did you manage to > get it? Conor, I think it is a fair question. In a 20, when it tells you to reduce speed, yet if you do, you may conflict with other road users by causing an obstruction impeding their progress?
So pretty much, you break one highway code rule/suggestion or another.
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Scott M - 13 Apr 2004 11:28 GMT > In a 20, when it tells you to reduce speed, yet if you do, you may > conflict with other road users by causing an obstruction impeding their > progress? And what the 'ell are they doing wanting you to go slower than 20 - it's the motoring equivalent of walking by placing the heel of one foot against the toe of the other as you take a step!
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Peter - 13 Apr 2004 20:31 GMT > > In a 20, when it tells you to reduce speed, yet if you do, you may > > conflict with other road users by causing an obstruction impeding their [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the motoring equivalent of walking by placing the heel of one foot > against the toe of the other as you take a step! Don't ask me, these are the rules that we're supposed to follow. Having said that less than 1% of drivers follow the HWC and not many get fined.
scott - 14 Apr 2004 12:58 GMT > > > In a 20, when it tells you to reduce speed, yet if you do, you may > > > conflict with other road users by causing an obstruction impeding [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Having said that less than 1% of drivers follow the HWC and not many > get fined. Try using your common sense rather than following the HC to the letter.
MeatballTurbo - 14 Apr 2004 16:42 GMT > > > > In a 20, when it tells you to reduce speed, yet if you do, you may > > > > conflict with other road users by causing an obstruction impeding [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Try using your common sense rather than following the HC to the letter. Oh god, with a quote like that, you will bring down the wrath of the AIM through their local representitive Franchise.
Isn't the HC supposed to be the one hymn sheet that we all sing to, not our own individual interpretationof the rules, but only those that we choose to follow.
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Me - 15 Apr 2004 18:54 GMT > > In a 20, when it tells you to reduce speed, yet if you do, you may > > conflict with other road users by causing an obstruction impeding their [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the motoring equivalent of walking by placing the heel of one foot > against the toe of the other as you take a step! Step we gaily on we go, heel for heel and toe for toe....
Kev
Adrian Boliston - 13 Apr 2004 11:51 GMT > In a 20, when it tells you to reduce speed, yet if you do, you may > conflict with other road users by causing an obstruction impeding their > progress? > > So pretty much, you break one highway code rule/suggestion or another. You could say that you are "impeding" someone elses progress whenever you are driving along and there is someone else behind you as if you were not there then that person would be able to go faster.
MeatballTurbo - 13 Apr 2004 16:46 GMT > You could say that you are "impeding" someone elses progress whenever you are > driving along and there is someone else behind you as if you were not there then > that person would be able to go faster. if they had a vehicle that was capable of crossing a speed bump faster than you but below the speed limit (landdrove/landcruiser/rangerover etc), or weaving round the chicane faster (smart car/Cinq/seicento) and you slowed down below 20 to floow that rule in the highway code, and they stayed at 20 you would be impeding them, and they could rightly say so.
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Conor - 13 Apr 2004 18:38 GMT > > Do you have a full licence? If you do how the hell did you manage to > > get it? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > conflict with other road users by causing an obstruction impeding their > progress? So you're supposed to drive through a tight chicane etc at the speed limit no matter how dangerous that may be just in case you hold someone up?
> So pretty much, you break one highway code rule/suggestion or another. No you don't. If you have to slow down then so do they unless they intend negociating it dangerously.
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AstraVanMan - 13 Apr 2004 21:34 GMT > Conor, I think it is a fair question. > In a 20, when it tells you to reduce speed, yet if you do, you may > conflict with other road users by causing an obstruction impeding their > progress? > > So pretty much, you break one highway code rule/suggestion or another. It's a bit like on the A316 heading out of London - there's a long-ish stretch between two roundabouts (about 1 1/2 miles) that's got a 40mph limit. It's the bit heading out of town between Whitton Road roundabout and Hospital Bridge roundabout. A fair while before Hospital Bridge roundabout there's a "reduce speed now" sign. If everyone did start reducing their speed there, they'd be crawling in no time, far too early for the roundabout. Obviously in the rush hour it's different, but in the rush hour you'll need to slow down well in advance of the reduce speed signs anyway, so it all becomes a bit irrelevant then.
Peter
Mark W - 12 Apr 2004 21:42 GMT > Anyway, how slow would you go in these situations? 1mph under the > limit, 5mph under, or really slow? If you have a Council van or a bus behind you, very very slow out of spite.
Conor - 13 Apr 2004 18:36 GMT > > Anyway, how slow would you go in these situations? 1mph under the > > limit, 5mph under, or really slow? > > If you have a Council van or a bus behind you, very very slow out of spite. Can't be our council then. Usually its them holding the rest of the world up. 15MPH below the limit no matter how low that limit is seems to be the order of the day for E.Yorks council workmen.
 Signature Conor
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Peter - 13 Apr 2004 20:46 GMT > I have a query about the highway code, which has confused me. It's > rule 131 about traffic calming. Part of it says, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Anyway, how slow would you go in these situations? 1mph under the > limit, 5mph under, or really slow? There was another question I wanted to ask too, but I had forgotten it. I've remembered now though, it's about overtaking parked cars.
If you come to a parked car (on your side of the road), there's on comming traffic and it's going to be a tight squeeze, what would you recommend? I was taught to go, but I don't these days and I don't think we should. I may have the confidence to negotiate my way through, but the other car may not. My dad squeezes through the smallest of gaps at high speeds, but it only takes a small mistake from either two drivers or somebody opening the car door to have an accident. The 'Pass your adanced driving test' book says that we should make progress where possible in these situations. If my old driving instructor gave me a lesson I know that he'd tell me that I should drive through more often. I prefer to drive safely though and waste a couple of seconds. If it's a situation where it's holding traffic up etc, then I may, but not if I'm just waiting for a car or two.
Doki - 14 Apr 2004 01:33 GMT > There was another question I wanted to ask too, but I had forgotten > it. I've remembered now though, it's about overtaking parked cars. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > traffic up etc, then I may, but not if I'm just waiting for a car or > two. The obstruction's on your side of the road, so you're meant to give way if there's no room. There's no point trying to squeeze through most of the time, particularly not quickly as you've no idea what could be behind the car. Even if you knock down someone's dog, you'll need your bumper fixing and AFAIK it has to be reported to the police.
scott - 14 Apr 2004 13:00 GMT > > There was another question I wanted to ask too, but I had forgotten > > it. I've remembered now though, it's about overtaking parked cars. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > could be behind the car. Even if you knock down someone's dog, you'll > need your bumper fixing and AFAIK it has to be reported to the police. My insurance documents say something about reporting an accident to the police within 24 hours if there is "injury to people or certain animals". Doesn't list the animals though, well maybe in the small print :-)
W K - 14 Apr 2004 13:30 GMT > My insurance documents say something about reporting an accident to the > police within 24 hours if there is "injury to people or certain animals". > Doesn't list the animals though, well maybe in the small print :-) Presumably the ones mentioned in other laws (HC?)
I believe domestic/farmed animals and dogs, but not wild animals or cats.
Nick Finnigan - 14 Apr 2004 17:07 GMT > My insurance documents say something about reporting an accident to the > police within 24 hours if there is "injury to people or certain animals". > Doesn't list the animals though, well maybe in the small print :-) Horse, cattle, a.s, mule, sheep, pig, goat or dog. (a.s probably includes donkey).
Adrian Boliston - 14 Apr 2004 11:31 GMT > If you come to a parked car (on your side of the road), there's on > comming traffic and it's going to be a tight squeeze, what would you > recommend?..... I'd say keep going if possible, but keep the speed down, to a crawl if need be, as a tight gap is usually safe at a very low speed, but a lot depends on the speed of the oncoming vehicle, as sometimes they make no attempt to keep over or even slow down even though it's clear that it's a tight squeeze, which I guess they are entitled to do, but if we all drive totally selfishly then things could get pretty miserable in busy traffic where a bit of give and take is required to keep things moving.
Peter - 14 Apr 2004 18:38 GMT > > If you come to a parked car (on your side of the road), there's on > > comming traffic and it's going to be a tight squeeze, what would you [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > a tight gap is usually safe at a very low speed, but a lot depends on the speed of > the oncoming vehicle, as sometimes they make no attempt to keep over or even slow Yeah, that's my biggest fear! It's happened to me before, they don't usually slow up and they shouldn't have to really, they have the right of way.
> down even though it's clear that it's a tight squeeze, which I guess they are > entitled to do, but if we all drive totally selfishly then things could get pretty > miserable in busy traffic where a bit of give and take is required to keep things > moving. David Knowles - 28 Apr 2004 16:49 GMT > > If you come to a parked car (on your side of the road), there's on > > comming traffic and it's going to be a tight squeeze, what would you [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > miserable in busy traffic where a bit of give and take is required to keep things > moving. That's absolutely right Adrian. In fact while I detest the current anti-speed policy, in other respects I am actually enjoying my motoring somewhat more these days.
The reason is that my attitude to other road users is now largely along the lines of 'I will help you, and then you help me' which, when it works properly, really does make driving much more pleasant and safe.
I would not wish to oversell this, but there are times when I have taken particular care to be patient and courteous to another road user, and I can almost sense that feeling spreading, which is really nice.
Having said that, I have no qualms about covering a bit of ground at anything up to 100 mph when the conditions are right, but there you go, a bit of variety etc. :-)
Best wishes all, Dave - alias TripleS.
 Signature Any opinions expressed are the author's personal ones only and do not represent the official position of MDK Consultancy Ltd.
David Knowles - 28 Apr 2004 16:29 GMT > > I have a query about the highway code, which has confused me. It's > > rule 131 about traffic calming. Part of it says, [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > traffic up etc, then I may, but not if I'm just waiting for a car or > two. When I was an impressionable youth (hell, that's going back a while) I used to be very impressed by drivers who could whizz through narrow gaps at a brisk pace, and I used to feel quite inferior because I didn't have the confidence to do it. I now believe it is very unwise to shoot through narrow gaps, so that particular shortcoming of mine seems much less important.
One thing I do find a bit irritating is where my side of the road is partially blocked by a parked vehicle, and the driver coming the other way goes straight through the middle of the remaining gap. What he ought to do (IMHO) is move over closer to the kerb on his side, and leave me room to go through the middle at a sensible pace and with reasonable clearance all round. However, I would not expect an oncoming vehicle to move too far to his left if it meant him coming too close to hazards on his near side, such as pedestrians walking close to the pavement edge.
If there is any doubt about sufficient space being available for me to be the meat in the sandwich and go through the middle, I prefer to slow down early so that by the time I reach the parked vehicle the fellow coming the other way has passed that point and is out of the way. In that case I can often carry on without needing to stop, it just means hanging back a bit.
Another 'trick' I find helpful in this situation is to move out early on the approach to a parked vehicle on my side, and indeed to move out a bit further than is strictly necessary. This gives a better view past the parked vehicle, and if anyone is coming the other way it also encourages them to think about moving over a bit more to their left. I try to ensure that if they don't take the hint and move over, there is plenty of time for me to stop and wait until they are clear. In any event this 'moving out a bit too far' should be done early, clearly and positively - shall we say with a bit of assertiveness - but not in a pushy or aggressive style.
I hope this helps.
Best wishes all, Dave - alias TripleS.
 Signature Any opinions expressed are the author's personal ones only and do not represent the official position of MDK Consultancy Ltd.
Peter - 29 Apr 2004 11:41 GMT > > petermcmillan_uk@yahoo.com (Peter) wrote in message > news:<c74310fd.0404120625.35fce59@posting.google.com>... [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > bit too far' should be done early, clearly and positively - shall we say > with a bit of assertiveness - but not in a pushy or aggressive style. That's what I always try to do, I quite often drive within a few inches of the kerb on the opposite side of the road (only when there are not pedestrians). It gives me a great view and there usually aren't many nearby hazards.
> I hope this helps. > > Best wishes all, > Dave - alias TripleS.
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