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Car Forum / Volvo Cars / February 2008'93 240 automatic - where is the relay/switch for the fifth gear?
I got stuck in the snow last Friday and now the car doesn't go in the fifth gear. I know on a previous '91 240, the relay/switch had burned (the dealer changed it). So I guess it could be the same thing and I would like to do it myself. Can someone tell me the exact location of that relay/switch which allows the car to go to the last gear? Thanks.. On my 1982 244, the relay is to the left of the glove box, under the top of the dashboard. Undo the screw that hold the glove box, remove the glove box, and it is accessible. Not sure if your year is the same. > On my 1982 244, the relay is to the left of the glove box, under the > top of the dashboard. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Not sure if your year is the same. It is. Once you get it out, it's easy to repair if you know how to solder, the same thing goes wrong on all of them. The wire to the solenoid under the car is a common problem as well. I got the part, I opened it and it looked fine inside. I was stuck in the snow and I put the car in Reverse and Drive a few times to get myself out of the snow. Do you think it is very likely that it is the relay? It will cost me $100 to find out (the cost of a new one). P.S. In case you wonder why I didn't get out of my car and find another way out of the snow, I broke my leg while skiing and walking isn't my strong point right now. Thanks. >> On my 1982 244, the relay is to the left of the glove box, under the >> top of the dashboard. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >The wire to the solenoid under the car is a common problem as well. >I got the part, I opened it and it looked fine inside. I was stuck in > the snow and I put the car in Reverse and Drive a few times to get [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Thanks. A new relay is more like 40 bucks. Look closely at the solder joins on the bottom of the circuit board, the heavy connections for the plug contacts and the mechanical part of the relay. There will probably be hairline cracks around some of the pins. If the arrow light on the dash is illuminated, the problem is in the relay, if not, it could be the wiring under the car or some other problem. Thanks for the reply. Here's what I've done: I removed the cover from the relay and plugged it in. I drove the car around and observed the relay as I drove at speed where it should go into 5th gear. As soon as I start the car, the relay closes and stay closed all the time. If I press the button on the the gear selector to disengage the last gear (arrow illuminated) the relay opens. Pressing the button again closes the relay. I repeated this operation many times and it always work. So it seems the relay is closing and opening when pressing button on gear selector. Does this mean the relay is working fine? If yes, where should I look next? Btw, I called the local Volvo dealer and the part is $85 + taxes! Thanks. >>I got the part, I opened it and it looked fine inside. I was stuck in >> the snow and I put the car in Reverse and Drive a few times to get [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >If the arrow light on the dash is illuminated, the problem is in the relay, >if not, it could be the wiring under the car or some other problem. > Thanks for the reply. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Btw, I called the local Volvo dealer and the part is $85 + taxes! Sounds like the relay is probably fine, it's behaving as designed, the only other thing to check electrically is that 12V is present at the wire to the solenoid on the side of the transmission. All it does is close a hydraulic circuit which locks out overdrive, it's 4th gear actually, there is no 5th on the auto box. The electrical side of things behaves exactly the same with the car parked and the ignition on as it does while driving. Wouldn't hurt to check the fuses as well, I forget if the power for the relay comes from the same source as the power it controls. Have someone listen under the car, turn on the ignition but don't start the engine. When you push the lockout button, the solenoid should click underneath, if it does, then something else is screwy, misadjusted linkage or internal transmission problem, that's rare though. Never buy stuff like that from the dealer, it's far cheaper from IPD and cheaper still from online places like FCP Groton. The dealer is a last resort when a part simply cannot be had from anywhere else. > Never buy stuff like that from the dealer, it's far cheaper from IPD and > cheaper still from online places like FCP Groton. The dealer is a last > resort when a part simply cannot be had from anywhere else. Or, if you have some U Pull It junk yards in your area with some old Volvos, do what I do: grab a bunch of relays and small parts to keep at home "just in case." I did as you suggested and there is no noise whatsoever coming from the solenoid. Thanks. >> Thanks for the reply. >> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >cheaper still from online places like FCP Groton. The dealer is a last >resort when a part simply cannot be had from anywhere else. >I did as you suggested and there is no noise whatsoever coming from > the solenoid. That's a good sign. I'm leaning towards the wire under the car, it goes from the solenoid up into the tranny tunnel into the car. If it isn't that, then the relay or the fuse. Sorry, forgot to mention that fuses were checked first and they are fine. Maybe I misunderstood your earlier reply, but since the solenoid doesn't make any noise when pressing the button on the gear selector, I thought it meant that the solenoid could likely be defective? >>I did as you suggested and there is no noise whatsoever coming from >> the solenoid. > >That's a good sign. I'm leaning towards the wire under the car, it goes from >the solenoid up into the tranny tunnel into the car. If it isn't that, then >the relay or the fuse. > Sorry, forgot to mention that fuses were checked first and they are > fine. > > Maybe I misunderstood your earlier reply, but since the solenoid > doesn't make any noise when pressing the button on the gear selector, > I thought it meant that the solenoid could likely be defective? It sounds like the solenoid could be defective or, as has been suggested, a problem with the wiring. Was the snow deep enough it might have loosened the plug or pulled wires loose? think the next step is to check for voltage at the solenoid.  Signature*H. Allen Smith* WACO - We are all here, because we are not all there. > Sorry, forgot to mention that fuses were checked first and they are > fine. > > Maybe I misunderstood your earlier reply, but since the solenoid > doesn't make any noise when pressing the button on the gear selector, > I thought it meant that the solenoid could likely be defective? It could, but that's rare, the only solenoid failure I've ever seen it was leaking, it still clicked. Either the relay or the wiring under the car is very likely the problem. Is there a way to measure the voltage at the pins of the overdrive relay? I mean while it is plugged in, using a voltmeter and doing it very carefully. Yesterday when I looked at the solenoid, the wire seemed fine, It was properly connected to the solenoid. And yes, I drove for an hour with snow as thick as the clearance under the car (I was on my way to hospital - emergency). IPD isn't an option here in Canada. And Volvo dealers love to sc#$% you with high prices (I recently found out that a front wheel caliper for a 240 sells for ~$170, but the dealer pays ~$85. They made a mistake - first time ever - and sold it to me at $85. It was too late when they realized and NO I wasn't going to pay for their mistake...). I once triewd a scrapyard located close to Toronto. They sent the wrong tachometer and ending up killing the speedometer. Pricey those darn things... P.S. If you want shitty service from the Volvo dealers come to Canada. Makes me sick enough, I'm not sure I'll ever buy another Volvo. This 240 is my 6th Volvo. Thanks for the help and listening to my rant. >> Sorry, forgot to mention that fuses were checked first and they are >> fine. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >leaking, it still clicked. Either the relay or the wiring under the car is >very likely the problem. > Is there a way to measure the voltage at the pins of the overdrive > relay? I mean while it is plugged in, using a voltmeter and doing it [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Thanks for the help and listening to my rant. You could measure voltage and continuity at the relay socket, but I forget which pin is which. You can also bridge two pins and force the solenoid on. There's lots of options besides IPD. I usually use FCP Groton or alloemvolvoparts.com, there's at least one other big online seller which I forget. FCP lists the OEM Bosch relay for US$31, and Hella relay for $30. Brake calipers are $44. Thanks for the info about online stores. I'll check them out. So sick of Volvo dealers. Here's one more tip about Volvo dealers, I recently found out that the owner of the Volvo dealership I go to was charging customers for the time the techs are on break/lunch. And they charge more than $100/hr. Could you please expand when you say bridging two pins? Which ones? Removing the solenoid to check voltage isn't an option. I might get a relay from FCP or Hella, just needs to check that they ship up North... >> Is there a way to measure the voltage at the pins of the overdrive >> relay? I mean while it is plugged in, using a voltmeter and doing it [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >forget. FCP lists the OEM Bosch relay for US$31, and Hella relay for $30. >Brake calipers are $44. > Thanks for the info about online stores. I'll check them out. So > sick of Volvo dealers. Here's one more tip about Volvo dealers, I [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I might get a relay from FCP or Hella, just needs to check that they > ship up North... I don't remember which pins, I'd have to look at it to tell. You don't have to remove the solenoid, though it's only two bolts, the wire unplugs. I received the OD relay from FCP and it doesn't solve the problem. Unless the part is defective, which is unlikely. I would have prefered a Bosch or OEM, but mine is a Kaehler. In the end, I think the part is fine, so my problem is elsewhere. FCP sells an OD solenoid for $95. Would you suggest I order it? Or do you have another suggestion? Thanks. >> Thanks for the info about online stores. I'll check them out. So >> sick of Volvo dealers. Here's one more tip about Volvo dealers, I [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >You don't have to remove the solenoid, though it's only two bolts, the wire >unplugs. >I received the OD relay from FCP and it doesn't solve the problem. > Unless the part is defective, which is unlikely. I would have [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Thanks. I've yet to ever see a solenoid fail, it can happen, but it's unlikely. As I've said before, check the wiring under the car to the solenoid, if the relay is ok then that's almost certainly where the problem is. You can test the solenoid while you're down there too. >>I received the OD relay from FCP and it doesn't solve the problem. >>Unless the part is defective, which is unlikely. I would have [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > relay is ok then that's almost certainly where the problem is. You can test > the solenoid while you're down there too. We had a solenoid fail. The wiring was also crap, but the solenoid was bad. Well, my dear James, you are right (again?). The wire above the electrical connector for the overdrive solenoid is cut. I haven't started to take things apart to see were that wire goes to on the inside of the car, but I'm sure I'll find out soon enough... P.S. An overdrive solenoid (I know I don't need one) sells for $95 at FCP and $390 at your friendly Volvo dealer... >>I received the OD relay from FCP and it doesn't solve the problem. >> Unless the part is defective, which is unlikely. I would have [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >relay is ok then that's almost certainly where the problem is. You can test >the solenoid while you're down there too. > Well, my dear James, you are right (again?). The wire above the > electrical connector for the overdrive solenoid is cut. I haven't > started to take things apart to see were that wire goes to on the > inside of the car, but I'm sure I'll find out soon enough... The wire goes up through a rubber plug into the passenger compartment and up into the center console to where the relay is. You can get heat shrink butt splices to make waterproof joints, or you can solder the wire together and cover it with a piece of heatshrink tubing. In a pinch, a normal butt splice with a good coat of electrical tape will work. Forgive my ignorance, but where can one usually find "heatshrink tubing"? Thanks. Btw, I find this whole thing pretty dumb. This overdrive thingy could be removed entirely and the car always able to reach 4th gear. I don't see any use for this thing which has caused me a good deal of aggravation and worries. >> Well, my dear James, you are right (again?). The wire above the >> electrical connector for the overdrive solenoid is cut. I haven't [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >cover it with a piece of heatshrink tubing. In a pinch, a normal butt splice >with a good coat of electrical tape will work. > Forgive my ignorance, but where can one usually find "heatshrink > tubing"? Thanks. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > don't see any use for this thing which has caused me a good deal of > aggravation and worries. It's handy if you're hauling a heavy load or towing a trailer, it prevents the transmission from hunting, which newer computer controlled automatics usually don't do. You can get a bypass plate from IPD, or just wire the solenoid to switched 12V. Heatshrink tubing can be found at an electronics store, Radio Shack carries it. Heatshrink butt splices are sold at any autoparts store in the electrical section. Update: I soldered the two wires and use heatshrink tubing. Btw, the insulation around the wire is crumbling into dust. In retrospect, I believe the wire broke in two as a result of driving in 10-12 inches of snow for 10+ miles. I must have hit something hard, like ice and it broke the wire. Everything is fine now. I must not be normal for worrying so much about my 240... Thanks to all for your help. You've got a nice group in here. >> Forgive my ignorance, but where can one usually find "heatshrink >> tubing"? Thanks. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >carries it. Heatshrink butt splices are sold at any autoparts store in the >electrical section. > Update: I soldered the two wires and use heatshrink tubing. Btw, the > insulation around the wire is crumbling into dust. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Thanks to all for your help. You've got a nice group in here. The heat and oil do nasty things to that wire over time. Last time I worked on an auto 240 I replaced the whole wire from about an inch from the solenoid to where it goes up into the car. New wire got two layers of heatshrink tubing over the whole thing. > Is there a way to measure the voltage at the pins of the overdrive > relay? I mean while it is plugged in, using a voltmeter and doing it > very carefully. Yes. Don't even have to be careful... it's only 12V. Touch all the joints on the relay with a clean hot soldering iron. Just because you can't see a bad joint doesn't mean there aren't any. My OD relay on my '83 looked fine under a jewelers loop but I touched them up anyway. Been working fine since. Same with the turn sigiginal relay. Run a hot wire out of the fuse box and poke it on the terminal on the solenoid... see if it goes click. Since the problem started after the adventure in the snow, it might be useful to check for damage to electrical connections under the car. Auto boxes are not my strong suit - I don't know exactly were the connections to the auto trans are located. > I got stuck in the snow last Friday and now the car doesn't go in the > fifth gear. I know on a previous '91 240, the relay/switch had burned [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Thanks..
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