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Car Forum / Volvo Cars / December 2004straight 6 in 760
Thinking about getting a 760, but I have heard that the straight 6 engine has a problem with #5,6 cylinders. Has Volvo come up with a fix? and does it last?. If not, how tough would putting a B230 in? bk > Thinking about getting a 760, but I have heard that the straight 6 > engine has a problem with #5,6 cylinders. Has Volvo come up with a fix? Do you mean a 960 or a 760? The 760 came with a PRV V6. The 960 came with an alloy inline 6. The PRV V6 was notorious for needing really good maintenance for longevity. Versions of the inline 6 used in the 960 continue to be used today. I don't know, but I imagine it would not be difficult to put a B230 into either a 760 or a 960, seeing as it is that Volvo made a version of each of those cars with a B230.  SignatureMany a smale maketh a grate -- Geoffrey Chaucer >Thinking about getting a 760, but I have heard that the straight 6 >engine has a problem with #5,6 cylinders. Has Volvo come up with a fix? >and does it last?. If not, how tough would putting a B230 in? bk Specs may vary between countries; you don't say where you are. In the UK, the 760 only had a straight 6 in diesel form. The petrol varients were V6 or a turboed 4. Early versions of the V6 engine had problems which were pretty well sorted by the time it was fitted to the 760, but it was always a thirsty engine and not as powerful as the turbo 4. Can't comment about the diesel, but if you are thinking of dropping in a B230, why not buy a 740? SignatureStewart Hargrave For email, replace 'SpamOnlyToHere' with my name Or a turbocharged BF230 760 - just about the only type of 760 you'll see where I live. We have the 1993 960 (with one of the oldest revisions of that engines for that model year, car built in Nov 1992) and we haven't had a single engine problem - 2,9L Inline 6.... Only bad part is the short durations between timing belt changes. >>Thinking about getting a 760, but I have heard that the straight 6 >>engine has a problem with #5,6 cylinders. Has Volvo come up with a fix? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Can't comment about the diesel, but if you are thinking of dropping in > a B230, why not buy a 740? > Thinking about getting a 760, but I have heard that the straight 6 > engine has a problem with #5,6 cylinders. Has Volvo come up with a fix? > and does it last?. If not, how tough would putting a B230 in? bk My understanding is that the PRV 6 was redesigned in 1988, fixing the cam and oil passage problems of the earlier PRVs. IIRC the engine designation was changed also. Mike Yes, you are right about the redesigning. The new PRV V6 was in the Peugeot 605 and the Citroen XM, introduced in 1989. I have a 1992 605 with the V6 - engine code ZPJ. It was modifed around 1991 and the ZPJ4 was introduced - the same engine but 4 valves per cyl. The kW went from 123 to about 145 and the hps from 167 to almost 2000. My Peugeot has done 192000 km and the engine is wonderful. Sweet sound, plenty of torque, and no problems. However, I do change the oil and filter every 5000 km or so. Gas consumption is pretty good. In cold climate, mostly city driving with automatic transmission, the average is 12,5 liters/ 100 kms. Ivar Petur >> Thinking about getting a 760, but I have heard that the straight 6 >> engine has a problem with #5,6 cylinders. Has Volvo come up with a fix? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Mike >> Thinking about getting a 760, but I have heard that the straight 6 >> engine has a problem with #5,6 cylinders. Has Volvo come up with a fix? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >and oil passage problems of the earlier PRVs. IIRC the engine designation >was changed also. I'm surprised it was as late as '88. However my only experience of the V6 was with a late 70s 264, in its B27 guise. My dad had the car before me, and although it was not without its faults, we never had the much spoken of oiling or camshaft problems. IIRC, between us we put about 225k miles on it, and it was still going well when I sold it. I seem to be one of the few people on this group with fond memories of the early V6. SignatureStewart Hargrave For email, replace 'SpamOnlyToHere' with my name > > Thinking about getting a 760, but I have heard that the straight 6 > > engine has a problem with #5,6 cylinders. Has Volvo come up with a fix? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > and oil passage problems of the earlier PRVs. IIRC the engine designation > was changed also. Yes it was made better, though they're still not known for lasting a spectacularly long time, and they're not any easier to work on. The 4 cyl turbo was more powerful, more dependable, easier to maintain and got better fuel economy, there's just not much reason to go with the V6 given a choice. Why not try the 760 GLE turbodiesel. It is a straight six and very reliable when looked after like all Volvo cars should be. Mileages of 500,000 are not uncommon with these engines before they require a top overhaul. Belt changes are every 80,000 miles. It is quite economical although the later version from 1993 onwards is even better, having hydraulic tappets and an extra cambelt idler which is adjustable.They can be very successfully tuned yielding very similar gains to electronically controlled diesels. Mine (in a '96 model 945) is giving better than 145 bhp (standard is 122 bhp) with standard intercooler. If the Italians can fit a 127bhp version in a 780! then I am sure anybody can live with a diesel. Cheers, Peter. > Thinking about getting a 760, but I have heard that the straight 6 > engine has a problem with #5,6 cylinders. Has Volvo come up with a fix? > and does it last?. If not, how tough would putting a B230 in? bk > Why not try the 760 GLE turbodiesel. It is a straight six and very reliable > when looked after like all Volvo cars should be. Mileages of 500,000 are not > uncommon with these engines before they require a top overhaul. What planet is this on? I've only seen a small handfull of the VW inline diesels these used in running order, and most of them were smoking badly and consuming/leaking oil with little over 100k on them. Seen plenty sitting dead in junkyards with busted camshafts or otherwise not running. I drove one 760TD once and while highway power was ok the lag was tremendous making it scary around town. It was noisy, a little smoky and leaked oil profusely. Fuel economy was slightly better than the gasoline 4 but not much. There's some very good Diesel engines out there but this is not one of them, it's worse than the gasoline V6. > > Why not try the 760 GLE turbodiesel. It is a straight six and very > reliable [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > some very good Diesel engines out there but this is not one of them, it's > worse than the gasoline V6. Mercedes Benz has some good long lasting diesel engines.. I have a relative who has a mid-80s 300 series MB. Engine has if I remember correctly somewhere around 650K Kms with no major engine work done. Yes, it smokes some but 20 years old engine with that many kms, I can live with that. It gets very good gas mileage too. Ahmet Turkey > Mercedes Benz has some good long lasting diesel engines.. I have a relative > who has a mid-80s 300 series MB. Engine has if I remember correctly [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Turkey I know someone with one of those too, the Mercedes Diesel engines do seem to be very good. I'd hope the company that pioneered diesel power in a passenger car would still be making some great diesel engines ;-) Those old MB diesels are still clattering around Southern Ontario (un-phased by our high sulphur diesel, and the salt on our roads that just doesn't attack those MB bodies)... I see even more of them around now that gas prices are rising... They outnumber, by far, the number of old VW diesels around... Volvo diesels are non-existant here... I don't think any must be running, I've only seen one and it was years ago. >> Mercedes Benz has some good long lasting diesel engines.. I have a > relative [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > to > be very good. Where have you been hiding Mr Sweet? Or have you just kept your head in the sand? You obviously know very little about diesel engines and seem to trot out the old American dogma about diesels. How many American truckers drive petrol engined trucks? Very few indeed as petrol engined trucks lack power and driveability as well as having an enormous fuel thirst. Diesel cars are on the point of breaking even with Petrol cars in Europe. Even UK market is around 35% diesel for new cars. The only problem given by VW/Audi diesels as fitted in Volvos is the vacuum pump (made by Pierburg of Germany) which is prone to spring breakage at around 150,000 miles or more. Please do some real research into the diesel engine and I mean, not using hearsay evidence, before you come back with an uninformed reply such as you made. Cheers, Peter. >> Why not try the 760 GLE turbodiesel. It is a straight six and very > reliable [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > some very good Diesel engines out there but this is not one of them, it's > worse than the gasoline V6. > Where have you been hiding Mr Sweet? Or have you just kept your head in the > sand? You obviously know very little about diesel engines and seem to trot [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > hearsay evidence, before you come back with an uninformed reply such as you > made. Do you really have to be such a dick about it? Research? I know a fair amount about diesel engines and I know there's a lot of excellent ones out there. In a pickup or other large truck diesel is the way to go, I've driven a VW Golf TDi which has an excellent diesel engine. The Diesel engine in question however is the anemic, noisy and well known to be unreliable inline 6 which Volvo used in the old 700 series cars. Even though they're quite rare in North America, I've personally worked on a couple of them, driven one of them, and known several others who have had them. This is not just rumors I've pulled out of my a.s, IMO it's a shitty engine, not *all* Diesels are shitty, but the one that Volvo chose in the 80's is. Any mechanic who's worked on them will say that they rarely last over 100k, and that's *if* you can find a mechanic willing to touch one. Fuel economy was about 28 mpg, not a whole lot better than the 26-27mpg the gasoline inline-4 will get. Factor in that Diesel fuel is significantly more expensive than gasoline (in the US anyway, and I can't control that factor) and the cost to run it is about the same. If there's a more "informed" reply than personal experience (and what just about any mechanic will tell you) I'd like to know where to find it. "Peter K L Milnes" <Peter.K.L.Milnes@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:cqsr99 > > What planet is this on? I've only seen a small handfull of the VW inline > > diesels these used in running order, and most of them were smoking badly [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > some very good Diesel engines out there but this is not one of them, it's > > worse than the gasoline V6. I will concur the VW sourced 6cyl D24's are truly awful suffering from almost all maladies you can think of from failed injection pumps, clogged injectors, very poor cam oiling, broken rockers, snapped cams, oil leaks, excess smoke, broken rings, etc etc infact you name it they'll do it. On top of that at 100k it'll be pretty much shot. Avoid Tim.. " Tim (Remove NOSPAM." wrote: > I will concur the VW sourced 6cyl D24's are truly awful suffering from > almost all maladies you can think of from failed injection pumps, clogged [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Tim.. You forgot cracks in the cylinder heads between the valve openings. Perhaps they're good if there looked after by someone who knows and loves diesels, but I've never seen a long lasting example, although I have to admit I've only ever seen 2 or 3. SignatureMike F. Thornhill (near Toronto), Ont. Replace tt with t (twice!) and remove parentheses to email me directly. (But I check the newsgroup more often than this email address.) > " Tim (Remove NOSPAM." wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > loves diesels, but I've never seen a long lasting example, although I > have to admit I've only ever seen 2 or 3. A guy I know (retired VW mechanic) is crazy about the Diesel Rabbits, he has 5 or 6 of the things, anyway according to him the 4 cylinder version is a solid motor (though it's still noisy, smokey, and underpowered) but the 6 cylinder has problems getting enough oil to all the valves when cold started. He has the special tools needed to time the injection pump after replacing a timing belt but it's nearly impossible to find a shop willing to work on them anymore. The injection pumps aren't particularly poor, but when they do fail they cost as much as the car is worth. That must be the normal for Stateside vehicles but certainly is not where European versions are concerned. Perhaps it is down to the attitude of American car service people. Perhaps they are ingrained with the general American ambience towards all things simpler than a petrol engine. My own is almost run-in (reaching peak) at 180,000 miles (in a 945 turbodiesel, '96 model) and has not even had the head gasket changed. Volkswagen themselves achieved 225 bhp with this engine with slight modification to the camshaft and swirl chambers. The European attitude to servicing diesel cars is way ahead of the American attitude. My Anglo-Swede friend has a 740 turbodiesel with well over 200,000 miles which is doing well still, since he added an intercooler to it. He says there is nothing to touch it for comfort and reliability, particularly when cruising the high speed motorways (no speed limit) in Germany and the higher speed limited French Autoroutes. So if you would like to experience just how good diesel engined cars are, try a trip to Europe to see for yourself. Incidentally although Rudolf Diesel made the first working diesel engine it was a stationary type and it came down to an Englishman to make it very workable. The English experience is not only with four-stroke diesels but also with two-stroke and Sulzer (developed by a Swiss engineer) types. Have you heard of these latter two? Cheers, Peter > "Peter K L Milnes" <Peter.K.L.Milnes@btinternet.com> wrote in message > news:cqsr99 [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Tim.. OK, ok here is a simple question from someone who has no experience with diesels, other then the ones I rent in Europe-- A Fiat break with a turbo diesel that served fabulously through the French and Spanish mountains and made 200 KMPH going down hill with all the windows closed--my wife even got into it enough to snap a picture of the speedo at 200! -- it would go 180 ok and was VERY happy cruising at 160--that's 100 MPH, BTW. We also rented a Renault Megane with a non turbo of per the Renault web site either 1.5 or 1.9 L. The Renault did ok, however around 160 KMPH it got bad MPGs--it was around 8-10L/100KM whatever that works out to while at 80-100 KMPH, according to the on board computer it was around 4-5L/100 KM Anyway--Direct Injection Diesels are wonderful, and I sure hope they come here soon--but as a people we in the USA have about zilch experience with light duty diesels--what maintance is required--adjust the valves and change the oil--clean the water trap I know but what else? Thanks --Steve > That must be the normal for Stateside vehicles but certainly is not where > European versions are concerned. Perhaps it is down to the attitude of [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > > > Tim.. The valves on my 99.5 TDI are self adjusting... I change the oil and drain the water seperator and add a fuel stabilizer and conditioner (high sulphur in our fuel can damage the injector pump).... Less to do on maintenance, but it still ends up costing more then our 1993 960 to run tho ;-). > OK, ok > [quoted text clipped - 91 lines] >> > >> > Tim.. |
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