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Car Forum / Volvo Cars / December 2004Most reliable 80's Volvo 240's
Hi, What are the most reliable Volvo 240's from the 80's? I'm looking for an automatic, so transmission reliability is quite important. Regards, Han. After 1988 when they improved the wiring. Howard > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Han. Hi Howard, What problems were there pre-1988 with the wiring? Han. > Hi Howard, > > What problems were there pre-1988 with the wiring? > > Han. The wiring in the earlier-80s models (I don't know just when it started, but my '85 was sure affected) had terrible insulation. I've heard it was of French manufacture, and heard it was biodegradable, but all I really know is that the insulation crumbles away from the smaller wires at the slightest touch. It only appears to affect the exposed portions and I'm sure it didn't happen when the car was new. Internal wiring also does not seem to be affected, but under the hood and under the chassis re-insulating exposed wires is an ongoing job. I replaced the engine harness maybe 8 years ago, but I still have dozens of wires I've repaired and some I've just patched up. Mike Insulation breaks down on wires exposed to heat. Replacement of engine wiring harness expensive. Prob $3-400 parts and 6-8 hours labor. May be hard to diagnose with lots of intermittant electrical/computer glitchs. Howard > Hi Howard, > > What problems were there pre-1988 with the wiring? > > Han. > Insulation breaks down on wires exposed to heat. Replacement of engine > wiring harness expensive. Prob $3-400 parts and 6-8 hours labor. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Howard There's a few tricks, at one point I found a nearly brand new harness on a car in a junkyard for 8 bucks, I've also bought a good one from Dave Barton, a lot more than the junkyard price but much less than the $350 or so new cost. Installation time on the last one I did was about 2 hours with no special tools so if a shop quotes you 6-8 hours they're ripping you off in a big way. Have seen one caught fire from....so bit dangerous.... have fun....sno > Insulation breaks down on wires exposed to heat. Replacement of engine > wiring harness expensive. Prob $3-400 parts and 6-8 hours labor. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.818 / Virus Database: 556 - Release Date: 12/17/2004 > What are the most reliable Volvo 240's from the 80's? I'm looking for > an automatic, so transmission reliability is quite important. One that has been fitted with a Chev V8. :-)  SignatureAthol <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000 I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss. > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Han. All 80's 240's had the same automatic transmission all the way up until the last ones in '93 so you won't find much difference there. Pre-'88 cars will probably need a new engine wiring harness if they haven't had one already, other than that the changes were minimal after the facelift in '86. Just small incremental stuff, power windows and seat heaters are more common, later ones have headrests in the rear, some of the very newest cars had ABS and driver's airbag but the basic car didn't change much at all. Shop by condition and maintenance, year and mileage is secondary but often related. Are the 740's from that era any less reliable than the 240's? > Are the 740's from that era any less reliable than the 240's? Generally no, the engine, transmission and much of the electronics are virtually identical, they tend to have a bit more bells & whistles to break but otherwise they're just as solid. One catch though is that some of the non-turbo models have the less robust ZF automatic gearbox. > > Are the 740's from that era any less reliable than the 240's? > > Generally no, the engine, transmission and much of the electronics are > virtually identical, they tend to have a bit more bells & whistles to break > but otherwise they're just as solid. One catch though is that some of the > non-turbo models have the less robust ZF automatic gearbox. What is the *more robust* slushbox, and how can I identify which one is on a vehicle? I like this thread so much I am looking for a 240 or 740! What kind of MPG's can one expect, real world? I get about 24-26 on the non turbo 850--my wife drives it day to day, and she gets about 17-18 but she is of the push the gas down let it up, push it down, let it up school of driving. >> > Are the 740's from that era any less reliable than the 240's? >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > of the push the gas down > let it up, push it down, let it up school of driving. The alternative is the AW-71 transmission. The types can be identified by the shifter; AWs have an overdrive button on the side and three speeds on the shifter, while ZFs have 4 speeds on the shifter and no separate overdrive button. My understanding is that the ZF is fine except for one dreadful catch - if the engine is revved in neutral (or park?) above 2000 rpm (IIRC) for more than 30 seconds (IIRC again) the transmission will be seriously damaged. Others can supply the exact details, I'm sure, but a number of transmissions have gone into emission testing working fine and had to be towed out. I understand there are alternative emission test procedures that are okay with the ZF. My '85 760 turbo wagon gets right at 20 mpg all the time - short trips or long, hot or cold weather. Mike > My understanding is that the ZF is fine except for one dreadful catch - if > the engine is revved in neutral (or park?) above 2000 rpm (IIRC) for more [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > understand there are alternative emission test procedures that are okay with > the ZF. I think there might be more to it, I know revving in park will damage it, but they seem to not last as long even with normal use. Some people have had great luck with them, but many more have not. The AW-70 and 71 boxes are just so bulletproof and they're about the same to drive, enough reason for me to avoid the ZF. IF you are worried about emissions testing, go to a centre that runs the car in drive on a set of rollers... The only time i've seen a car standing in the shop with the car in neutral was the emission test for my diesel VW... All they looked for is smoke at idle and smoke at 2000rpm, The Volvo and our other VW were both done on a contraption that looked like a dyno with a pipe attached to the exhaust system and a tether mounted to the car "just in case" it slipped. >>> > Are the 740's from that era any less reliable than the 240's? >>> [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Mike > IF you are worried about emissions testing, go to a centre that runs the > car in drive on a set of rollers... The only time i've seen a car standing [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > with a pipe attached to the exhaust system and a tether mounted to the car > "just in case" it slipped. Here in Arizona the tests are done under contract and are the same everywhere (in the two counties that do it.) The main test is done on dyno rollers, but if the car fails some tests the car is revved out of gear to "condition" it in an effort to get an in-tolerance reading. Mike > > > Are the 740's from that era any less reliable than the 240's? > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > of the push the gas down > let it up, push it down, let it up school of driving. The ZF gear selector will have 1-2-3-D while the stronger AW-70/71 has 1-2-D and a button on the side to lockout overdrive (4th gear). When my mom's 240 was automatic it got about 26 mpg. Later converted it to manual and it's been doing 29-31 mpg but then at 235k miles or so it's probably loosened up a bit. 240's and 740's have different personalities, drive both and see what you like. One thing about the 740 though, beware the headliner, they tend to fail and sag with age, and it's a HUGE pain to redo it in a sedan. Not so bad in a wagon but it's no picnic either. It's the price to pay for a bit more luxury I suppose. >Subject: Re: Most reliable 80's Volvo 240's >From: "Steve n Holly" stevenholly@comcast.net [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >of the push the gas down >let it up, push it down, let it up school of driving. I think it depends on the individual car. My last 240 wagon got unbelievable MPG -- something like 28-32 in the *city*. My latest 240 gets far, far few MPG (but I stll love it!). > I think it depends on the individual car. My last 240 wagon got unbelievable > MPG -- something like 28-32 in the *city*. My latest 240 gets far, far few MPG > (but I stll love it!). What're the years and transmissions? If there's a substantial difference there may be something out of wack on the newer one, I'm assuming your driving style hasn't changed. I haven't noticed much difference between one 240 and another assuming same engine and tranny. >Subject: Re: Most reliable 80's Volvo 240's >From: "James Sweet" jamessweet@hotmail.com [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >driving style hasn't changed. I haven't noticed much difference between one >240 and another assuming same engine and tranny. The car that got the better MPG was a 1989. My current 240 wagon is a 1993. Both are automatic transmission. > >Subject: Re: Most reliable 80's Volvo 240's > >From: "James Sweet" jamessweet@hotmail.com [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > The car that got the better MPG was a 1989. My current 240 wagon is a 1993. > Both are automatic transmission. Have you checked the timing? Fuel injectors clean? How's the cap, rotor, plug wires and spark plugs? Tire pressure? Shouldn't be much difference between the two cars. > Are the 740's from that era any less reliable than the 240's? The 740s are pretty decent, but the 760s - especially before the '88 model year, have some troublesome accessories. (Ours is an '85, so I guess I am an authority!) The A/C will drive you cRaZY on the pre-88s. Mike Get an 81 240 with the B 21F engine with Bosch K Jet injection system. This fuel injection system is very basic, no real FI computer (just a closed loop system using voltage from the O2 sensor to modulate fuel/air ratio).. but it is ultra reliable. A three row radiator is a good idea for improving reliability and keeping things cool. If the alternator has an external regulator retrofit the internal regulator brush assembly (really easy). Put in new bushings on the power steering pump mounts. Put in new injector seals (easy). Put in the later model flame trap that doesnt clog. I know the wiring harnesses are often big trouble in this vintage, but I have had no serious problems with mine. The 81 240 is the best Volvo I have owned and I have had six, ranging from a 68 144 to a 92 240. The IPD sway bars are a good upgrade if you want less body roll in turns. The 90s 240s are nice, and they are cheap now, but they are more complex, a bit harder to fix and have the air mass meters that always seem to fail at the wrong time. Power windows and mirrors are nice, but they break. I love 240s and for me the 81 is a great vintage. > Get an 81 240 with the B 21F engine with Bosch K Jet injection system. This > fuel injection system is very basic, no real FI computer (just a closed loop > system using voltage from the O2 sensor to modulate fuel/air ratio).. but it is > ultra reliable. My advice gained by personal experience is opposite of that, I deal with a number of K-jet 240's on a regular basis (including two '81 B21F 240's) and while a couple of them run pretty well, I've spent more time screwing around with some others than I care to admit. As simple as it may be, when it's not working right it can be very difficult to diagnose without some specialized tools. The warmup regulators fail often and are as expensive as air mass meters when you can find new ones. An '81 is a 25 year old car so unless very well maintained it will likely need all new hoses, some wiring, and possibly some other stuff. Also in a couple instances when I've been too busy to take on a project, the owners have found just how hard it can be to find a mechanic with K-Jet experience, most of them seem to look under the hood and go "huh?" The cars always seem to run, so in that sense yes it's "reliable" however they rarely run "well." On the other hand I've had nothing but great experience with the more modern LH-Jet injection. I've had two air mass meters fail out of about a dozen cars I've worked on and both were very easy to determine the problem and inexpensive to find a good used AMM. The LH injected engines run smoother and get better fuel economy, as well as there's less funky vacuum stuff and no "black box" hydraulics. Just simple, solid computerized electronics. Only problems I've ever experienced with them other than the AMM is rotted wiring (a problem with the K-Jet cars share), and an injector that had the plastic cap over the pintel crack and fall off into the stream. Most problems can be diagnosed with a basic multimeter and a quick visual inspection, no need for any special pressure guages, fittings, or any other special tools. i loved my 81 240,except for the lack of overdrive(automatic),but if you get an 82 you will get the aw71 auto.overdrive tranny,you really need that extra gear on the freeway.and you will still have the nice big metal bumpers. and it will be close to the age of being emisions exempt. mine was always a little tempermental on cold starts, but ran great otherwise.a couple of times when merging onto a freeway with it floored it caught a second gear scratch,a friend was with me,we just looked at each other and laughed. mark Nobody seems to be mentioning the colapsing driver's seats. I had three late 80's 240s and the drivers seat failed miserably (and uncomfortably) in all three. I never had this problem with my 70's 260s and haven't had it (yet) with the 850s. Signature----- -RL > Nobody seems to be mentioning the colapsing driver's seats. I had three > late 80's 240s and the drivers seat failed miserably (and uncomfortably) > in all three. I never had this problem with my 70's 260s and haven't had > it (yet) with the 850s. Ah, yes. IPD sells a repair kit, but it is still a hassle. I think all mid-80s Volvos had the problem Mike > Nobody seems to be mentioning the colapsing driver's seats. I had three > late 80's 240s and the drivers seat failed miserably (and uncomfortably) in > all three. I never had this problem with my 70's 260s and haven't had it > (yet) with the 850s. That's an easy problem to fix though, put the little screen that supports the foam back together and use a bit of duct tape to keep it from falling apart. Put the springs back on and it's solid. If the wire screen is cutting into the foam, a piece of lexan, fiberboard or even cardboard between the foam and the screen fixes this. The whole job including removing the seat and taking it inside to work on takes only about an hour, I've done it quite a few times and so far haven't had it fail again. I just rebuilt the driver's seat in my 89 240, with the help of a good seat back pad from my 88 240, the dealer replaced it in 93,so it was still good (just retired it after 300,000 miles, due to rust) I added 1 inch foam padding, and put the seat heaters under the padding, was tired of sitting on the plastic grates,much more comfortable, 1/2 inch padding would have been better as far as getting the covers back on, had to wrestle with the hog rings,still have the knuckles to prove it. mark as for the original post question, my 88 240 was the best car i ever owned, 300,000 miles on the original engine, auto.tranny, alternator, starter and waterpump.decided to retire it after i found major rust around the lower driver door hinge on the body,plus a couple of spots on the roof the size of a half dollar that finally went through. so i'm using it for parts for my "new" rust free 89 and i've needed a few parts as this one has been somewhat troublesome. mark > I just rebuilt the driver's seat in my 89 240, with the help of a good seat > back pad from my 88 240, the dealer replaced it in 93,so it was still good [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > knuckles to prove it. > mark I just cut those rings off and use nylon zip ties to put the upholstery back on, it's a whole lot easier. I've had problems with my 850 seat jamming and know of several other people with same issue. alan newfoundland canada 93- 850 92-745 87-745 >> Nobody seems to be mentioning the colapsing driver's seats. I had three >> late 80's 240s and the drivers seat failed miserably (and uncomfortably) [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > quite > a few times and so far haven't had it fail again. > I've had problems with my 850 seat jamming and know of several other people > with same issue. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > 92-745 > 87-745 What does 'seat jamming' mean, and if it occurs how is it resolved? I'd rather have the seat foam fail than the power driver's seat back develop a mind of it's own in our 960. mark Post '87. Also, '88 used a different injection system, which was changed again in '89. Biggest enemy of Volvo transmission is heat so radiator maintenance important--especially in hot climates. Might want to avoid anything with original rad or low quality replacement. > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Han. >Also, '88 used a different injection system, which was >changed again in '89. That depends upon where in the world you are. SignatureStewart Hargrave For email, replace 'SpamOnlyToHere' with my name |
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