Problem with '95 850 AT

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Stephen Henning - 07 Jan 2005 22:04 GMT

Our '95 850 with automatic transmission has a quirky problem.
Going down steep hills I shift from drive to "3". About 10 to 20
seconds going down hill the transmission makes a shift, or at least does
something that causes the engine to rev up, then it shifts back to 3rd,
goes into limp mode, flashes the yellow transmission arrow, and turns on
the check engine light.

After turning the ignition off and back on, the computer resets, the
transmission works normally. After about 2 hours of driving, the
flashing yellow arrow goes out and just the check engine light stays on.

When my wife drives the car she leaves it in drive and there never is a
problem. It only occurs when I drive the car and shift down.

The first time I took it to the dealer, he said that it was the speed
sensor and replaced that. Then it occurred again and they said it was
the speed sensor. When I balked, they said is the the speed sensor on
the output side which is different. Well, I got the car back yesterday
and it happened again today.

I called the dealer and told him I am not going to throw any more money
at the problem. I knew the solution, to not down shift. They want to
look some more. I told them it would be at their own expense.

Any ideas. The first time the engine code was 2-4-1 and they changed
the EGR valve. Then the light came back on and the code was for
incorrect gear ratio, vehicle sensor output side. Then, again the light
came on and the code was the same. This has cost well over a $1000 for
a non-problem.

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Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA, USA
Owned '67,'68,'71,'74,'79,'81,'87,'93,'95 & '02 Volvos.
The '67,'74,'79,'87,'95 and '02 through European Delivery.
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/volvo.html

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Steve n Holly - 07 Jan 2005 23:08 GMT

> Our '95 850 with automatic transmission has a quirky problem.
> Going down steep hills I shift from drive to "3". About 10 to 20
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> came on and the code was the same. This has cost well over a $1000 for
> a non-problem.

I do not know what the problem is, but I would get the Volvo zone involved.
3 unrequired repairs at your expense is enough. I think three times is the
criteria for the lemon law as well!

I would ask for your $1000 back and for the zone to have a qualified tech
diagnose the car.

Volvo Customer Care Center
For questions about the Volvo you currently own.

Volvo Cars of North America, LLC
Attn: Volvo Customer Care Center
7 Volvo Drive
Rockleigh, New Jersey 07647

Tel: 1-800-458-1552
Email: customercare@volvocars.com
Hours: 8:30 AM to 7:00 PM EST, M - F

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Stephen Henning - 08 Jan 2005 23:51 GMT

> I do not know what the problem is, but I would get the Volvo zone involved.
> 3 unrequired repairs at your expense is enough. I think three times is the
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Email: customercare@volvocars.com
> Hours: 8:30 AM to 7:00 PM EST, M - F

OK, thanks much,

Yes this is the third time:
1st time replaced the throttle position sensor,
2nd time replaced the vehicle speed sensor,
3rd time replaced the output speed sensor and the problem still exists.

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Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to rhodyman@earthlink.net
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman

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Steve n Holly - 10 Jan 2005 19:32 GMT

Please post how you make out, Stephen!

> > I do not know what the problem is, but I would get the Volvo zone involved.
> > 3 unrequired repairs at your expense is enough. I think three times is the
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> 2nd time replaced the vehicle speed sensor,
> 3rd time replaced the output speed sensor and the problem still exists.

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Stephen Henning - 11 Jan 2005 16:38 GMT

I am going in Thursday to meet with the dealership.

Here is what I put together:

In December of 2003, a problem occurred while the car was descending a
hill at about 45 mph and the automatic transmission had been in 3 for
about 10 to 15 seconds. The car started to shift for no reason then the
yellow transmission arrow light started flashing, the check engine light
came on, and the car went into limp mode. Shutting the car off and
restarting got it out of limp mode and it worked normally except the
transmission arrow was flashing and the check engine light was still on.
This problem has occurred 5 times. After a few days, the transmission
arrow will stop flashing by itself. The check engine light stays on.

12-16-03 Tom: Check engine light is on and the transmission arrow is
flashing.
Technician checked for codes, removed air filter housing and checked
wire connector at the top of the transmission. Checked speed sensor
connector at the bottom of the transmission. All O.K. Cancelled the
codes and test-drove 3 times. Light did not come back on. $76.00+tax

3-15-04 Tom: Check engine light is on. The transmission arrow was
flashing.
Technician checked for codes, found 3 abs codes and 1 transmission code.
Traced abs codes to faulty pedal position sensor. Replaced bake pedal
sensor. The code for the transmission (322) could lead to seven
different components. Reset the code and will see if any transmission
codes come back in the future. $175.78+tax

5-19-04 Tom: Check engine light is on and the transmission arrow is
flashing.
Checked for codes and found code 322 (again). Checked fault tracing in
the manual and traced to a faulty vehicle speed sensor. Ordered part.
$39.75+tax

7-6-04 Tom: Installed vehicle speed sensor $127.98+tax

12-8-04 Jessica: Check engine light is on.
Checked for codes and found code 241 - EGR valve faulty. Replaced.
$427.62+tax

12-22-04 Amy: Check engine light is on. The transmission arrow was
flashing.
Checked for codes and found code for incorrect gear ratio. Vehicle
speed sensor output side. Connected breakout box on car and tested
sensors shift solenoid resistance OK. Ordered speed sensor output side.
Transmission oil fine. $159.00+tax

1-5-05 Amy: Installed vehicle speed sensor output side. $218.58+tax

1-7-05 Called Robert to report same problem that has occurred 4 times
previously. Appointment for 1-13-04
Total expended to date: 7 visits and $1224.71+tax

I researched the problem on the internet and Mick Ruthven
<mr@impact-consult.com> reported he had the same problem:

"My 94 850 Turbo Wagon did (probably still does) the same thing and
after I realized that it happened only when the transmission was in "3",
I stopped using "3". Problem over. My Volvo dealer said they could find
the problem but it would cost money and since it wasn't a serious
problem they didn't recommend trying to fix it."

> Please post how you make out, Stephen!

> > > I do not know what the problem is, but I would get the Volvo zone
> involved.
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> > > Email: customercare@volvocars.com
> > > Hours: 8:30 AM to 7:00 PM EST, M - F

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Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to rhodyman@earthlink.net
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman

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Mike F - 13 Jan 2005 15:44 GMT

> I am going in Thursday to meet with the dealership.
>
[quoted text clipped - 58 lines]
> the problem but it would cost money and since it wasn't a serious
> problem they didn't recommend trying to fix it."

I had a look in my manual last night (which is for '96-, but should be
similar to your '95). The 32x code indicates incorrect gear ratio for
gear x, so your code is for second gear, which shouldn't happen in
position 3, unless there's something wrong with your mode (SEW) switch.
From what I read, and from your symptoms, I'd start with the adjustment
of the shifter cables and the pnp switch. If it was still happening,
then I'd change the pnp switch as it's a known weak point.

The final 2 "checks" in the manual are:
Test with a new transmission control unit, and
Test with a new transmission.

Signature

Mike F.
Thornhill (near Toronto), Ont.

Replace tt with t (twice!) and remove parentheses to email me directly.
(But I check the newsgroup more often than this email address.)

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Stephen Henning - 13 Jan 2005 16:47 GMT

> I had a look in my manual last night (which is for '96-, but should be
> similar to your '95). The 32x code indicates incorrect gear ratio for
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Test with a new transmission control unit, and
> Test with a new transmission.

Thanks Mike. The dealer called to tell me that the Regional Rep will be
out to talk it over. I will make sure that he gets this information.
Also, I offered to take them out and cause the light to go on, since
they never have involved me in the diagnostics. I think you have made a
big breakthrough.

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Stephen Henning - 31 Jan 2005 23:51 GMT

I wrote:

> In December of 2003, a problem occurred while the car was descending a
> hill at about 45 mph and the automatic transmission had been in "3" for
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> been taken into the dealer 5 times. Replacing 1) vehicle speed sensor,
> and 2) vehicle speed sensor output side did not solve the problem.

"Steve n Holly" <stevenholly@comcast.net> wrote:

> I would get the Volvo zone involved.
> 3 unrequired repairs at your expense is enough.

Mike F <"mikef2316()"@allsttream.nett> wrote:

> I had a look in my manual last night (which is for '96-, but should be
> similar to your '95). The 32x code indicates incorrect gear ratio for
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> of the shifter cables and the pnp switch. If it was still happening,
> then I'd change the pnp switch as it's a known weak point.

"Steve n Holly" <stevenholly@comcast.net> wrote:

> Please post how you make out, Stephen!

I gave Volvo Customer Service and the dealer your input. The regional
rep. suggested just changing the pnp switch. They absorbed half the
cost of this. They completed the service this morning. It appears to
solve the problem. I spent all afternoon shifting down to 3 and could
not generate an error, even where I could easily generate the error
before. Altogether, I paid about $1,000 for a $300 problem. At least
your suggestions solved the problem (I think) and saved me $200.

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Mick Ruthven - 09 Jan 2005 04:45 GMT

My 94 850 Turbo Wagon did (probably still does) the same thing and after I
realized that it happened only when the transmission was in "3", I stopped
using "3". Problem over. My Volvo dealer said they could find the problem
but it would cost money and since it wasn't a serious problem they didn't
recommend trying to fix it.

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Stephen Henning - 20 Jan 2005 21:52 GMT

Mike F <"mikef2316()"@allsttream.nett> wrote:

> > I had a look in my manual last night (which is for '96-, but should be
> > similar to your '95). The 32x code indicates incorrect gear ratio for
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> > Test with a new transmission control unit, and
> > Test with a new transmission.

I wrote:

> Thanks Mike. The dealer called to tell me that the Regional Rep will be
> out to talk it over. I will make sure that he gets this information.

After thinking about it a week, the dealer talked to the Regional Rep
and agreed to replace the mode switch at half-cost. They will not try
any adjustments first.

I was wondering one more thing. Could there be a motor-mount problem so
that when the car is running on compression the engine-transmission
assembly moves and the AT thinks it is in the wrong gear.

If it doesn't work, they agreed to reset the check engine light for
nothing and I will just avoid shifting down into "3."

After the part comes in and they replace it I will get back with the
final report. Meanwhile, I will ask them to check all mounts.

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