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Car Forum / Volvo Cars / February 20051993 Volvo 850: Keep or Sell?
My '93 850GLT has suffered some horrendous repairs in the past 5 years and from searching the archives it would seem that the problems I've had are fairly typical (auto transmission and A/C). Now I am sorting out whether to keep the car or stop the bleeding by trading for something else. Perhaps there are other early model year 850 owners out there who have faced this decision? Below is the summary of what I've spent on the car in the past 6 years--in the case the Excel formatting doesn't show properly in the text body, there is a link below to the actual Excel file. Major elements are $3k for tranny and $3k for A/C (and I have a slow leak problem now which is likely to be the evaporator again--another $1k+). http://members.cox.net/ted.adlam/Volvo_850_Service_History.xls The car is in extremely good cosmetic condition (Arizona car, garaged and parked in shade during day) and low miles @ 57k. Here is a photo: http://members.cox.net/ted.adlam/volvo2.JPG. My hunch is that I should just keep it and budget for $1.5k/yr unscheduled maintenance...which gives me a total cost of ownership well below what any new car would be on account of the depreciation effect. In the case of the tranny, checking the fluid regularly and performing a full power flush/replace of the ATF once in while will hopefully avoid future tranny problems. But if other 850 owners (or ex-850 owners) have tried this route and been disappointed I would consider changing my view. Maybe it's time to cut my losses? Thanks, Ted. ===================================================================== Nov. 99 A/C and misc $ 51 $ 330 Mar. 00 A/C $ 137 May 00 A/C evaporator $ 1,101 Feb 01 Pwr. Seat + misc $ 82 $ 210 July 01 Major Service $ 1,105 $ 100 Feb 02 Service $ 45 Jun 02 Fuel pump $ 45 $ 475 Dec 02 Battery Cable $ 181 May 03 A/C + Brakes $ 54 $ 780 May 03 A/C, fluid flush/replace $ 220 $ 1,690 Aug 03 warranty (fuel pump) Sept 03 pwr antenna, Wheel bearing $ 582 Feb 04 50k service $ 143 May 04 Motor mounts, ATF flush $ 150 $ 561 Jul 04 Transmission $ 50 $ 3,080 Oct 04 Radiator $ - $ 1,200 Totals $ 1,856 $ 10,686 Duration = 6 years Mileage = 36k Miles/year = 6k Scheduled Maint./year = $310 Repair cost/year = $1781 Repair cost/mile = $.30 > My '93 850GLT has suffered some horrendous repairs in the past 5 years and > from searching the archives it would seem that the problems I've had are [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Repair cost/year = $1781 > Repair cost/mile = $.30 Your list of repairs looks fairly typical for a higher mileage '93. The AT usually made it 80k mi before going. The AC problems could be real, but if the car had been in an accident and the system had been open to the atmosphere, those problems would have occurred. You have fixed the big ticket items. The engine is the strong part. Buying a new one could just be buying the same problems. I kept my '93 850 for 175,000 miles and 8 years. The AT was the only big ticket item and it was covered by the 100k warranty I purchased. I bought the warranty for $1000 because it was a new untested model. Now we know about the only weakness was the AT.  SignatureCheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA, USA Owned '67,'68,'71,'74,'79,'81,'87,'93,'95 & '02 Volvos. The '67,'74,'79,'87,'95 and '02 through European Delivery. http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/volvo.html The A/C system is another 850 weakness, at least here in Ontario (where we only run our A/C's for about 3-4 months of the year - lots of 10+ year old cars won't have functional A/C any more up here, this all according to a Volvo garage technician)... When we were getting our A/C fixed on our 960 (pipe had to be changed out), the guy doing the work was telling me how the 960 had a much better design then the 850, and that he remembered summers where the garage was filled with 850's needing new evaporators and other work done. Now that he's had the A/C done as well, car should be good to go, tho him saying that it's still leaking is not encouraging. >> My '93 850GLT has suffered some horrendous repairs in the past 5 years >> and [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > $1000 because it was a new untested model. Now we know about the only > weakness was the AT. > The A/C system is another 850 weakness, at least here in Ontario (where we > only run our A/C's for about 3-4 months of the year That is one reason I leave the AC on year around, even on days like today when it never got up to freezing. I know that the compressor won't come on very often this time of year, but just once or twice a week is enough. Someone once told me that the seals get dry and leak if the AC isn't used. It seems to make some since, because refrigerators typically are scrapped because the interior shelves break, not because of the refrigeration system failing. SignatureCheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA, USA Owned '67,'68,'71,'74,'79,'81,'87,'93,'95 & '02 Volvos. The '67,'74,'79,'87,'95 and '02 through European Delivery. http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/volvo.html That's exactly what happens to cars here, the system leaks due to dried out seals.... The problem is, there is a thermal switch on Volvo's and in the winter here its generally too cold for the ECC to allow the A/C to come on. Considering our A/C lasted 9 years before we had to put the leak stopping dye in it, then another 3 more years until a pipe had to be fixed, I'd say the Volvo A/C's, at least in the 960's are pretty solid.... VW's are the other vehicles I am familiar with, and NO VW of that vintage has working A/C around here.... at least that I have seen. >> The A/C system is another 850 weakness, at least here in Ontario (where >> we [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > typically are scrapped because the interior shelves break, not because > of the refrigeration system failing. > > The A/C system is another 850 weakness, at least here in Ontario (where we > > only run our A/C's for about 3-4 months of the year [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > typically are scrapped because the interior shelves break, not because > of the refrigeration system failing. What's it do to your gas mileage to leave it on all the time? Running it for a few minutes every couple weeks is enough to keep the seals wet, the compressors have a finite life as well you know, and running them all the time won't help that. Automotive AC and household refrigerators are a world apart, yeah the basic principal of operation is the same, but a refrigerator is plumbed in copper with all soldered joints, there's no rubber seals to go bad. They do fail occasionally but it's usually that the valves wear out and don't seal properly so the thing gets less and less efficient until it's running all the time. > What's it do to your gas mileage to leave it on all the time? Running it for > a few minutes every couple weeks is enough to keep the seals wet, the > compressors have a finite life as well you know, and running them all the > time won't help that. Nothing since the compressor only runs on demand and the demand in winter is very rare. It is used when the defogger is turned on which is as it should be, and it comes on when the car sits in the sun and actually get a little bit warm. Other than that the compressor is not running. That may be a few minutes every couple weeks. But if you turn the AC off, it can't come on at all. When it does come on, it is more economical to use the AC than open the windows. That reduces the mpg even more. SignatureCheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA, USA Owned '67,'68,'71,'74,'79,'81,'87,'93,'95 & '02 Volvos. The '67,'74,'79,'87,'95 and '02 through European Delivery. http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/volvo.html > > What's it do to your gas mileage to leave it on all the time? Running it for > > a few minutes every couple weeks is enough to keep the seals wet, the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > The '67,'74,'79,'87,'95 and '02 through European Delivery. > http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/volvo.html On automatic climate controlled cars the A/C switch isn't really an on/off switch as it is on a 740 (or 240). It's more of an enable/disable switch. If the car is colder than the setting on the temperature dials, the A/C won't come on no matter how hot it is outside. And if the ambient temperature is below about 5 C (= 40 F) then the rest pressure in the system is lower than the trip pressure on the low pressure switch, and it won't come on no matter what. The defrost position will turn the A/C on even if you have it disabled, provided the system pressure is above the low pressure switch cutoff point. Of course engine heat can raise system pressure slightly on cold days allowing the A/C to come on at colder temperatures than listed. SignatureMike F. Thornhill (near Toronto), Ont. Replace tt with t (twice!) and remove parentheses to email me directly. (But I check the newsgroup more often than this email address.) Thanks all for the inputs. What I am hearing reinforces my thinking that keeping my aging (but low mileage) 850 should be the right choice. And the bit about the A/C compressor seals dring out makes sense--and I had thought I was *extending* the life of my A/C system by turning it off except when absolutely necessary--evidently the reverse is true. Since I live in Phoenix, I can be sure that the compressor will cycle on year-round as long as I leave it in automatic mode. Ted. >> > What's it do to your gas mileage to leave it on all the time? Running >> > it for [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > point. Of course engine heat can raise system pressure slightly on cold > days allowing the A/C to come on at colder temperatures than listed. |
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