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Car Forum / Volvo Cars / April 2005volvo just cuts off as I'm driving.. can you help me please
While driving my car it will just cut off. The check engine light comes on the car just stops... Doesnt matter where. On the highway doing 70 or in a residential area doing 10. Please help me figure out the problem > While driving my car it will just cut off. The check engine light comes on > the car just stops... Doesnt matter where. On the highway doing 70 or in a > residential area doing 10. Please help me figure out the problem Readout the error code stored, fix the problem, then it goes again. Next time, please write model, year etc. Niels > While driving my car it will just cut off. The check engine light comes on > the car just stops... Doesnt matter where. On the highway doing 70 or in a > residential area doing 10. Please help me figure out the problem Model, year? If it's a 240 or 7(4/6)0, could be the FPR. Fairly simple (and cheap) to replace. Beverly  SignatureMany a smale maketh a grate -- Geoffrey Chaucer > While driving my car it will just cut off. The check engine light comes on > the car just stops... Doesnt matter where. On the highway doing 70 or in a > residential area doing 10. Please help me figure out the problem In addition to model and year, some more info will help. How frequent is the failure? Apparently it starts working again on its own; if so, how long do you have to wait and does it start like nothing ever happened? If it doesn't always start right up again or after waiting a while, is there anything you do that seems to help? Are the failures in clusters, or never one right after another, or completely random? Never when the engine is cold, or doesn't matter? Does it have a tach, and if so, does the tach drop like a stone or does it follow the engine speed down? Does the engine cut out with a bit of a jolt like you'd turned the key off, or does it take a second or so to die (especially when going slowly)? These answers can focus the investigation. Mike I can't help but think/ask: Would a Volvo do this if the oil level is w-a-y low, e.g., dry? <<<shudder>>> I'll assume it's not that low, but give it a peek just to be on the safe side. Allan ... and Michael Pardee spake, saying: >>While driving my car it will just cut off. The check engine light comes on >>the car just stops... Doesnt matter where. On the highway doing 70 or in a >>residential area doing 10. Please help me figure out the problem >I can't help but think/ask: Would a Volvo do this if the oil level is >w-a-y low, e.g., dry? <<<shudder>>> I'll assume it's not that low, but >give it a peek just to be on the safe side. > > Allan No. There is no oil pressure cutoff, and if you run out of oil to the extent the engine stops running, it will do the same as any car and just stay that way. My son's "learner" car was an old Subaru and he neglected the oil. He called me to say the engine came to a stop when he stopped at a light and would not crank. By pulling the plugs and putting oil in the cylinders we were able to get it running again for a week or so (until it threw a rod), but most seize and stay that way until the whole thing is disassembled. When my sister-in-law did that to her mother's Oldsmobile I put a socket on the crankshaft to see if the engine would turn - it felt like it was welded to the engine. Mike > ... and Michael Pardee spake, saying: >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>>a >>>residential area doing 10. Please help me figure out the problem The model is 740 GL and the year is 89. It only cuts off after running a while... I'd say 20 to 30 miles. It does start again but not all the time right away.. Lately its been everyday > The model is 740 GL and the year is 89. It only cuts off after running a > while... I'd say 20 to 30 miles. It does start again but not all the time > right away.. Lately its been everyday Very likely to be the fuel pump relay. This is a common failure in 740/760 because the relay runs very hot, and the solder joints crack. Beverly SignatureMany a smale maketh a grate -- Geoffrey Chaucer > The model is 740 GL and the year is 89. It only cuts off after running a > while... I'd say 20 to 30 miles. It does start again but not all the time > right away.. Lately its been everyday Beverly certainly has the most likely suspect with the fuel pump relay. Being a fuel system failure, it usually produces a less abrupt failure than ignition trouble. At low speeds the power will sag a bit right before the engine dies and the tach will drop gently. Most ignition problems will cause the tach to drop like a stone and the engine to die instantly. The exception is the "power stage" mounted on the fender above the battery - when those overheat the ignition often fades away. Go with the fuel pump relay - resolder or replace - first. If the problem is still present there are some other common sources of intermittents, but the relay is modestly priced, easy and a very good suspect. Mike > The model is 740 GL and the year is 89. It only cuts off after running a > while... I'd say 20 to 30 miles. It does start again but not all the time > right away.. Lately its been everyday I have the exact same year and model and mine did the same thing. I tried the fuel pump relay first. But it turned out to be the Crank Position Sensor,commonly called the RPM Sensor.Only cost $30 or so.Takes about 10 minutes to install. My Son's car behave similar, he has a 85Mod 740GLE Automatic. The car just stop after a few mile, or right away after it has started. In the beginning it was very seldom, now it is everyday. Some times he can start and go, other days it wont start again. Please, could anyone tell me where I find the CPS on this car, and also which relay is the fuel pump relay (not white in this car) I had all the relay's out yesterday, and could not see any error, and neither could I measure any error. we have changed the power stage module, sparks, checked the fuel pump. What is the FPR ??? I see someone mention this as a possible reason. Best Regards Geir R.Pettersson grp.arctic@heating.no http://www.arctic-heating.com > While driving my car it will just cut off. The check engine light comes on > the car just stops... Doesnt matter where. On the highway doing 70 or in a > residential area doing 10. Please help me figure out the problem Me again, "FPR" I know it now (I am just stupid). Anyway I think I have located all the relay's, took them all out and have opened the one who could be opened, gone trough every soldering point in every relay, cleaned the connectors and so one, no help, still not start. I understand that the relay can go bad, but since it must work now and then, what could be the reason, after I have checked all the soldering points (re soldered all point's) I might find the CPS before anyone answer, but I still might need help. I had similar problem in my Jeep, and then it was caused by bad connections in the CPS. SignatureBest Regards Geir R.Pettersson grp.arctic@heating.no http://www.arctic-heating.com > My Son's car behave similar, he has a 85Mod 740GLE Automatic. > The car just stop after a few mile, or right away after it has started. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > the car just stops... Doesnt matter where. On the highway doing 70 or in a > > residential area doing 10. Please help me figure out the problem > Me again, > "FPR" I know it now (I am just stupid). [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > -- What injection system does this car have? In the US they were all LH-Jettronic but it sounds like perhaps you have CIS? Can you hear the fuel pump under the car running? Does it have spark? I had one occasion where the fuel pump broke internally, I could still hear it running but no fuel was being pumped. Injection system ? All I know is that it is 2.3L injection motor. I am afraid I don't know what CIS stand for. Spark ? I don't know if the spark is missing each time it does not start, but since it start and goes a couple of miles, I guess the spark is ok. We have changed the power stage module, and plugs. According to what I found on this page http://www.vlvworld.com/indexframe.html?700/Section_2_5.htm I guess I have a K jet injection, cause I think the motor in this 85 mod is B23E SignatureBest Regards Geir R.Pettersson grp.arctic@heating.no http://www.arctic-heating.com > > > Me again, [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > one occasion where the fuel pump broke internally, I could still hear it > running but no fuel was being pumped. >Me again, >"FPR" I know it now (I am just stupid). [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >what could be the reason, after I have checked all the soldering points (re >soldered all point's) Fuel pump relay can also develop intermittency due to contact wear. Glue two pieces if fine grit abrasive paper back to back an cut off a small strip. Use it to clean contacts. The white fuel pump relay has toe relays ont the circuit board. The one that has contacts closest to the center if the board will exhibit more contact wear. Regards, Boris Mohar Got Knock? - see: Viatrack Printed Circuit Designs (among other things) http://www.viatrack.ca Thanks, but I tried that as well. http://www.vlvworld.com/indexframe.html?700/Section_2_5.htm Relay for K-jet injection The relay is green like on this page, I opened it, cleaned it with some stuff for electronic boards, have gone trough all soldering points, in fact, to me the Relay looked new, we have only had the car 6 month, so I have no idea if it has been changed before. As you understand I am a newbie when it comes to car, so could you tell me if this car has a CPS, and if so where I find it ? Best Regards Geir R.Pettersson grp.arctic@heating.no http://www.arctic-heating.com > >Me again, > >"FPR" I know it now (I am just stupid). [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Got Knock? - see: > Viatrack Printed Circuit Designs (among other things) http://www.viatrack.ca > As you understand I am a newbie when it comes to car, so could you tell me > if this car has a CPS, and if so where I find it ? this car wont have a CPS. try look at this link to get some information on the Hall effect sensor. http://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/ElectricalIgnition.htm#DoesMyCarHaveaHallo rRPMSensor I know the link migth be broken up, but I don,t know how to post long links, so you must try to cut and paste, to get it together. Per Hauge Thanks, I really good page, I see I have plenty to read and learn. I keep you updated in case we get rid of the problem. SignatureBest Regards Geir R.Pettersson grp.arctic@heating.no http://www.arctic-heating.com > > > As you understand I am a newbie when it comes to car, so could you tell me > > if this car has a CPS, and if so where I find it ? > > > this car wont have a CPS. > try look at this link to get some information on the Hall effect sensor. http://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/ElectricalIgnition.htm#DoesMyCarHaveaHallo rRPMSensor > I know the link migth be broken up, but I don,t know how to post long links, > so you must try to cut and paste, to get it together. > > Per Hauge Hi Again, I have re checked all fuses, relay's and so on, listen to the fuel pumps, tested according to the information I found on the page: http://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/EngineFuelinjection.htm#FuelPumpandFIRelay DiagnosticTests apart from that I can't see there is "There are 2 relays inside the fuel injection/pump relay. One of them should turn ON when the ignition is turned on (without turning over the engine), and the other relay (which actually turns the fuel pumps) should come ON when the engine turns over/runs." It is only one relay inside the fuel pump relay, neither can I find any other relay for injection relay, I took of the cover of the fuel pump relay, and looked the relay while I was trying to start, I could not see anything happen, so I tried again and used my finger to push down the contact, and then the fuel pump started, but still no action in the car, I suspect that I might have several errors, some times I have a spark, and sometimes not, in combination with fuel problem. In my Jeep I could turn the ignition On-Off, On-Off, On-Off without starting the car, then it would start flashing an error message (code) is it the same thing in this Volvo ? and what is the sequence ? SignatureBest Regards Geir R.Pettersson grp.arctic@heating.no http://www.arctic-heating.com > > >Me again, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Got Knock? - see: > Viatrack Printed Circuit Designs (among other things) http://www.viatrack.ca > Hi Again, > I have re checked all fuses, relay's and so on, listen to the fuel pumps, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > -- The info you're getting from the brickboard is for LH-Jetronic and you have K-Jetronic (aka CIS injection). They use different relays. If your fuel pump relay isn't turning on, then either it's defective or it's not getting the signal to turn on. This signal is pulsing from the low voltage side of the ignition. So if you have no ignition, the fuel pump won't turn on. Usually the tachometer jumps if there's ignition during cranking. If you have a test light, clip the lead to the negative battery terminal, and with the key in the "run" position, the test light should light with the probe on both sides of the coil. If not, then you have a power supply problem. If so, while cranking the light should flash on one side of the coil (the side with the red-white wire) and stay constantly lit on the other. If this doesn't happen, then you have a problem with the pickup in the distributor, or there's a problem with the power switching unit (which you seem to have changed). SignatureMike F. Thornhill (near Toronto), Ont. Replace tt with t (twice!) and remove parentheses to email me directly. (But I check the newsgroup more often than this email address.) Thanks Mike, I try this when I come home. Do you know where I can find more info about K-Jetronic ? I have the Haines manual for this car, but of cause this engine B230E is not covered. Should not the car start when I trigged the fuel pump manually ? the signal to turn on the relay, where is it coming from ? will it go trough a relay ? Have a nice weekend. SignatureBest Regards Geir R.Pettersson grp.arctic@heating.no http://www.arctic-heating.com > > > > Hi Again, > > I have re checked all fuses, relay's and so on, listen to the fuel pumps, > > tested according to the information I found on the page: http://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/EngineFuelinjection.htm#FuelPumpandFIRelay DiagnosticTests > > apart from that I can't see there is "There are 2 relays inside the fuel > > injection/pump relay. One of them should turn ON when the ignition is turned [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > in the distributor, or there's a problem with the power switching unit > (which you seem to have changed). > Thanks Mike, > I try this when I come home. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Best Regards > Geir R.Pettersson You need 3 things for your car to run. 1. fuel 2. spark at the correct time 3. compression My guess is you don't have spark. Without spark, the fuel pump relay won't energize the fuel pumps. The fuel pump relay uses the same signal the tachometer uses (red-white wire) - without that the fuel pumps stay off. So, if you don't have fuel AND spark, just adding one of them (fuel in your case) isn't going to help. We had K-Jetronic over here - just in the 240s, and in the US, only up to 1982. (Canada up to 1984.) Just look for 240 info, in the older cars. (We had K-Jetronic V6s in both 200 and 700 up to 1986.) SignatureMike F. Thornhill (near Toronto), Ont. Replace tt with t (twice!) and remove parentheses to email me directly. (But I check the newsgroup more often than this email address.) Hi Mike, Latest news, I opened the distributor again, to locate the Hall sensor. I wanted to check the Hall sensor, by measuring according to what I found on the net, to be honest I could not measure anything, so I have apparently misunderstood something. However, I cleaned every thing also the sensor, put it all back together and to my surprise it started after that, my son have now taken 3-4 trips today, no problem so far. I guess I have been lucky, and it will only work for a day or 2, I guess that the sensor is about to quit, and that I have to start looking for a new distributor with the sensor mounted, it seems to complex to only change the sensor, I read that you should be quit skilled to do that, and I don't want to hammer anything and make it worse. Do you agree that I now 100% could blame the Hall sensor ?, if so I can start looking for a new distributor ( find the cheapest) Thanks for your help, it was when you told me how to measure on the coil, that the solution came. >> Thanks Mike, >> I try this when I come home. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > to 1982. (Canada up to 1984.) Just look for 240 info, in the older > cars. (We had K-Jetronic V6s in both 200 and 700 up to 1986.) > Hi Mike, > Latest news, I opened the distributor again, to locate the Hall sensor. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Thanks for your help, it was when you told me how to measure on the coil, > that the solution came. It's quite possible that the problem was just a dirty connector at the hall sensor. I've also seen the little wires break off, usually the plug breaks off the distributor and dangles by wires, I've had to epoxy a few of those. > Hi Mike, > Latest news, I opened the distributor again, to locate the Hall sensor. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Thanks for your help, it was when you told me how to measure on the coil, > that the solution came. I would look very closely at both the terminals for corrosion, and the wire harness from the Hall sensor to where it joins the main harness. SignatureMike F. Thornhill (near Toronto), Ont. Replace tt with t (twice!) and remove parentheses to email me directly. (But I check the newsgroup more often than this email address.) Hi Mike, I tested like you described. I have light on both sides, but while cranking no flashing on the side of the coil with white wire. The other unchanged as well. I removed the cap and rotor and cleaned everything, all wires as well. I noticed some small black plastic pieces as well inside, I guess they come from the plug below with 3 wires ( Hall sensor) I think I read somewhere that if it was inside the distributor it is a hall sensor, even if the house of the sensor is broken, I could not find any loose wires, I pushed gently to see if any wire was loose, but they where not. I will try to check the Hall sensor tomorrow. I have changed the power switching unit, but could it still be this, or can we now say it is caused by the Hall sensor ? P.S I even measured the plug wires, they where all app 6K, and the one to the coil was about 3K >> Hi Again, >> I have re checked all fuses, relay's and so on, listen to the fuel pumps, [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > in the distributor, or there's a problem with the power switching unit > (which you seem to have changed). We where in heaven for 1 and a half week, now it's back. I guess we have to change the Hall sensor (first I try the contacts again) I wish you all a nice weekend, without any stalling car's SignatureBest Regards Geir R.Pettersson grp.arctic@heating.no http://www.arctic-heating.com > Hi Again, > I have re checked all fuses, relay's and so on, listen to the fuel pumps, > tested according to the information I found on the page: http://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/EngineFuelinjection.htm#FuelPumpandFIRelay DiagnosticTests > apart from that I can't see there is "There are 2 relays inside the fuel > injection/pump relay. One of them should turn ON when the ignition is turned [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > Viatrack Printed Circuit Designs (among other things) > http://www.viatrack.ca
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