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Car Forum / Volvo Cars / July 2005How much is the volvo worth?
How much is this white ex-police T5 worth 1997 Dec http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=9872&item=4561322434&rd =1&ssPageName=WDVW with 196,000 miles on the clock? Not a lot I would say? He says he was pleased the last auction sale fell through at 1,040 pounds because he wanted more for it. Would it not be sensible to pay more money for a lower mileage one? As repairs for 196.000 miles ex police one could be costly I think, particularly on a volvo at this mileage. Is my thinking correct? A non ex police red Feb 1999 T5 SE model with 141,000 went for 2,150. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=9872&item=4561538752&rd=1 Look at the valuation http://www.wisebuyers.co.uk/index.jsp?guide=prices&page=used_cars&no=3&make=Volv o&model=S70+%281996-99%29&mmv=19832&yearplate=1997%2FR&mileage=196 valuation adjusted for 196,000 miles Retail: £3,465 Private Good: £2,845 Private Average: £2,055 Private Poor: £1,255 Part Exchange: £2,305 Trade: £2,102 Those valuations seem way out. Darren (Dazza) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying : > How much is this white ex-police T5 ... worth with 196,000 miles > Would it not be sensible to pay more money for a lower mileage one? > A non ex police red ... with 141,000 went for 2,150. Irrespective of Ovlovs and ex-plodness, by they time you're at 140k miles, the difference to 200k is relatively academic. It's condition, condition, condition. 140k could be utterly shagged and worn out if not properly maintained. 200k could be fresh as a daisy. > Darren (Dazza) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying : > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > 140k could be utterly shagged and worn out if not properly maintained. > 200k could be fresh as a daisy. Agreed, my father has a T5 V70 with 130k on the clock and it goes like stink... - Look out for an oil leak under the engine bay, caused by blow back pressure in the block, blowing out the main crankshaft to gearbox seal. (Big problem with these) Also look out for blue smoke under acceleration, indicating worn turbo seals and possibly bearings. Remember the turbo is a very special peace of kit on this car, it's where all the power comes from, check it out carefully, they can be a grand upwards. The police look after there cars very well. Expect 27mpg tops though!!! I think a T5 for a grand is a real bargain, irrespective of a few faults and high milage.... Once you have driven one!, they are addictive. Andy > > Darren (Dazza) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying : > > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > grand upwards. > The police look after there cars very well. You think? They get utterly ragged by the drivers - OK, they may be well maintained, but once they've reached the end of their useful life to the force they're normally totally f.cked. It may be slightly different for cars, but a BikePlod I know says to *never* touch an ex-plod bike.  SignatureSteve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # > It may be slightly different for cars, but a BikePlod I know says to > *never* touch an ex-plod bike. Yeah, those Police bikes are always hooning around at max_revs+1 with race cans on and... oh wait... > > It may be slightly different for cars, but a BikePlod I know says to > > *never* touch an ex-plod bike. > > Yeah, those Police bikes are always hooning around at max_revs+1 with race > cans on and... oh wait... I think I'll trust his opinion on this one as he rides them every day so knows _exactly_ how shagged they are when they get shot. I can only assume it'll be the same for cars. SignatureSteve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # >>>It may be slightly different for cars, but a BikePlod I know says to >>>*never* touch an ex-plod bike. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > knows _exactly_ how shagged they are when they get shot. I can only > assume it'll be the same for cars. With respect, he is a bike copper, not a mechanic... - Don't make assumptions, there are good volvo's out there with 2+ million miles on the clock. Andy > >>>It may be slightly different for cars, but a BikePlod I know says to > >>>*never* touch an ex-plod bike. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > assumptions, there are good volvo's out there with 2+ million miles on > the clock. He rides the bikes every day - and has been known to ride a variety of kit, not just the marked bikes. A Honda Pan European is probably *the* most bulletproof bike ever made, even those are to be avoided after the plod have had them for a few years. Just because a privately owned Volvo has 2 million miles on it doesn't mean a thrapped to an inch of it's life fast patrol car will make it that far. It's really not worth the risk. You may get lucky and find a good one, but the odds are you'll buy an expensive shed. SignatureSteve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # Thing is repairs are going to be expensive arent they? And nobody will want it if you try to resell it with 200k+ on it And the repairs will soon cost as much as the car is worth. Anybody know the maintenance costs of these kind of cars? Whats likely to go wrong at this mileage? The turbo wont last much longer will it? How much to replace that? Insurance is group 16 too. Volvo parts arent cheap are they? And volvo dealer maintenance is out of the question the prices they charge. How specialized is maintaining a volvo t5? Can any garage do it? Independent volvo specialists dont seem very common compared to other makes of cars (eg French cars, Saab etc) > Thing is repairs are going to be expensive arent they? And nobody will > want it if you try to resell it with 200k+ on it And the repairs will [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Independent volvo specialists dont seem very common compared to other > makes of cars (eg French cars, Saab etc) If the turbo is original I'd expect it to need replacing soon-ish, especially as I can't see the police leaving their cars to idle for a couple of minutes before cutting the engine..... probably around £500 for an exchange turbo plus fitting. Anyone should be able to work on the car, but, as a 5-pot motor, the cambelt is going to be a right PITA to replace. (I'm sure I'm right in assuming the engine is longitudinal in these things). SignatureSteve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # >> Thing is repairs are going to be expensive arent they? And nobody will >> want it if you try to resell it with 200k+ on it And the repairs will [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >cambelt is going to be a right PITA to replace. (I'm sure I'm right in >assuming the engine is longitudinal in these things). 500 plus fitting, well the car is simply not worth buying is it, even at 1000 pounds. For 2000 you can get a lower mileage private only owned higher spec car. (The police ones are fairly poverty spec compared to an SE or CD trim). And not many people like white cars. As for buying the 1000 pound one, you could soon spend in maintenance and repairs what a better example would cost. What about suspension parts etc, arent they likely to be shagged at that mileage? Could be costly? > Anyone should be able to work on the car, but, as a 5-pot motor, the > cambelt is going to be a right PITA to replace. (I'm sure I'm right in > assuming the engine is longitudinal in these things). It's transverse, and it's not a difficult job - 400 quid all in with the service using original parts. Signature"it's very dangerous to fall asleep in the bath, I keep myself awake by constantly making toast" No flame intended, but in the USA at an independent shop I believe you could get the same service on a 850 which is about the same as the s70 for US$400 using Volvo parts. (just the belt, not the water pump too...) Why are things so much more over there? > > Anyone should be able to work on the car, but, as a 5-pot motor, the > > cambelt is going to be a right PITA to replace. (I'm sure I'm right in > > assuming the engine is longitudinal in these things). > > It's transverse, and it's not a difficult job - 400 quid all in with the > service using original parts. > No flame intended, but in the USA at an independent shop I believe you could > get the same service on a 850 which is about the same as the s70 for US$400 > using Volvo parts. (just the belt, not the water pump too...) > > Why are things so much more over there? Because virtually everything costs more, and hence mechanics have to be paid somewhat higher wages to compensate I would assume. I live in an expensive area of the US and things are similarly pricey across the board. "Steve" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote: > Why are things so much more over there? Taxes. Their (UK) major tax is the VAT, a sales tax. We were just touring Scotland and England in May and the prices were about the same as in the US except they were in £ not $, so, in effect, just about everything cost twice what it does in the USA. However, that is misleading because we have income tax, social security tax, and property taxes taken out of our spending money in the USA, may still pay sales tax in addition. Their (UK) VAT is included in the price. SignatureCheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA, USA Owned '67,'68,'71,'74,'79,'81,'87,'93,'95 & '01 Volvos. The '67,'74,'79,'87,'95 and '01 through European Delivery. http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/volvo.html > "Steve" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote: >> Why are things so much more over there? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > taxes taken out of our spending money in the USA, may still pay sales > tax in addition. Their (UK) VAT is included in the price. As well as our income tax and national insurance that gets deducted from our wages... >"Steve" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote: >> Why are things so much more over there? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >taxes taken out of our spending money in the USA, may still pay sales >tax in addition. Their (UK) VAT is included in the price. We also pay income tax and national insurance (social security tax). Plug some numbers (in pounds, not dollars, obviously) into this to get an idea of how much.... http://www.moneyweb.co.uk/products/tax/income/generalincometaxni.html SignatureSteve Walker > "Steve" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote: >> Why are things so much more over there? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > taxes taken out of our spending money in the USA, may still pay sales > tax in addition. Their (UK) VAT is included in the price. And VAT is 17.5% which is 2-3 times higher than your Sales Tax I believe. Plus, a recently introduced "reciprocal agreement" means that if we (in any EU country) buy off the 'net from US companies they have to charge us VAT at the rate applicable in our country. We have a name for this situation, Rip-off Britain :-( BTW, can you explain something about US Sales Tax? I see on websites things like "California residents add x% Sales Tax" which, presumably, means that if you live in another state then you don't pay the Sales Tax. Does this mean that if you live near the border between two states that you can drive into the next state and do all your shopping tax-free? Parish > BTW, can you explain something about US Sales Tax? I see on websites > things like "California residents add x% Sales Tax" which, presumably, > means that if you live in another state then you don't pay the Sales > Tax. Does this mean that if you live near the border between two states > that you can drive into the next state and do all your shopping tax-free? I've never seen this (although it may well exist). When I first moved here in the mid-80s, my recollection is that some drive-through "restaurants" wouldn't charge sales tax, presumably for a similar reason. Beverly SignatureMany a smale maketh a grate -- Geoffrey Chaucer >> BTW, can you explain something about US Sales Tax? I see on websites >> things like "California residents add x% Sales Tax" which, presumably, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I've never seen this (although it may well exist). When I first moved Here's an example plucked at random from a Google http://www.exhibitapress.com/pages/ordering.html > here in the mid-80s, my recollection is that some drive-through "restaurants" > wouldn't charge sales tax, presumably for a similar reason. :-) Parish >>> BTW, can you explain something about US Sales Tax? I see on websites >>> things like "California residents add x% Sales Tax" which, presumably, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > http://www.exhibitapress.com/pages/ordering.html I meant I hadn't seen stores near interstate borders that didn't charge sales tax. I have seen the internet practice of not charging sales tax for out of state sales. Beverly SignatureMany a smale maketh a grate -- Geoffrey Chaucer > BTW, can you explain something about US Sales Tax? I see on websites > things like "California residents add x% Sales Tax" which, presumably, > means that if you live in another state then you don't pay the Sales > Tax. Does this mean that if you live near the border between two > states that you can drive into the next state and do all your shopping > tax-free? AIUI (and I am not a 'merkin) any sales "within-state" are taxable. Any sales between states are not. Since any over-the-counter sale is within the state by definition (unless the state boundary happens to pass between salesman and customer...) they're all taxable, even if the customer lives out-of-state. > Since any over-the-counter sale is within the state by definition (unless > the state boundary happens to pass between salesman and customer...) > they're all taxable, even if the customer lives out-of-state. Not as daft as it sounds. There is a pub in North Wales where the boundary between two counties passes through the pub and many years ago one of the counties was "dry" so only half the pub could open on Sundays :-) Parish > And VAT is 17.5% which is 2-3 times higher than your Sales Tax I believe. > Plus, a recently introduced "reciprocal agreement" means that if we (in > any EU country) buy off the 'net from US companies they have to charge us > VAT at the rate applicable in our country. Er - who's 'they' in this case? We have to pay the vat (and duty if applicable) on imports, but it doesn't get charged by the US company like VAT normally is - it gets handled upon import. This isn't a recent thing at all, neither is it unique to imports from the US. Are you talking about some special new rules - if so, can you tell me more? FWIW my last import from the US was about last month, and I know that nothing of what you said applied to it. cheers, clive >> And VAT is 17.5% which is 2-3 times higher than your Sales Tax I believe. >> Plus, a recently introduced "reciprocal agreement" means that if we (in [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > FWIW my last import from the US was about last month, and I know that > nothing of what you said applied to it. Sorry, I wasn't explicit enough; if you buy non-tangible goods - e.g. s/w downloads - you are charged VAT at the rate applicable to the "delivery" country. Try buying a software download from Symantec's US website. http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,111422,00.asp http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,84024,00.asp Although I can't work out how the EU can force US, for example, companies to collect VAT for EU countries. I guess it's incorporated into US tax laws? BTW, if you buy from Symantec's (and other software comapnies) "UK" website you will find that they are based in Eire and charge the Eire VAT rate which is higher (19%?) than the UK. Parish We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Parish <me@privacy.net> saying something like: >BTW, if you buy from Symantec's (and other software comapnies) "UK" >website you will find that they are based in Eire and charge the Eire >VAT rate which is higher (19%?) than the UK. 21% SignatureDave SE6a > BTW, can you explain something about US Sales Tax? I see on websites > things like "California residents add x% Sales Tax" which, presumably, > means that if you live in another state then you don't pay the Sales > Tax. Does this mean that if you live near the border between two states > that you can drive into the next state and do all your shopping tax-free? Yes. At least people drive from Vancouver, WA to Portland, OR for that reason and people drive from southeaster PA to DE for that reason. However, things that are registered like cars and boats must have the state (and local) sales tax paid before they are registered. One caveat that is interesting is that if you live in Oregon, you can buy your car in Washington tax-free because Oregon doesn't tax cars. You hear "cross over the bridge" ads all the time on Portland radio stations. Liquor has an even higher tax, so there are frequent trips across state lines for liquor. Now keep in mind that we (USA) have a lot of people driving gas hogs like SUV's doing this, so the savings are very marginal sometimes. People in the USA think our petrol prices are high. We are paying about $2.25 per gallon (that is £0.30 per liter) for regular now. While in the UK I was paying about $7 per gallon (that is £0.95 per liter). ... and we think our gas prices are high. SignatureCheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA, USA Owned '67,'68,'71,'74,'79,'81,'87,'93,'95 & '01 Volvos. The '67,'74,'79,'87,'95 and '01 through European Delivery. http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/volvo.html > Liquor has an even higher tax, so there are frequent trips across state > lines for liquor. Now keep in mind that we (USA) have a lot of people > driving gas hogs like SUV's doing this, so the savings are very marginal > sometimes. But you can get an awful lot of beer in an SUV :-) > People in the USA think our petrol prices are high. We are paying about > $2.25 per gallon (that is £0.30 per liter) for regular now. While in > the UK I was paying about $7 per gallon (that is £0.95 per liter). ... > and we think our gas prices are high. OK, don't rub it in ;-) Parish > People in the USA think our petrol prices are high. We are paying about > $2.25 per gallon (that is £0.30 per liter) for regular now. While in > the UK I was paying about $7 per gallon (that is £0.95 per liter). ... > and we think our gas prices are high. It's all relative, when the price doubles within a year it doesn't much matter if it started out at $1 or at $3, it still hurts. > > People in the USA think our petrol prices are high. We are paying about > > $2.25 per gallon (that is £0.30 per liter) for regular now. While in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > It's all relative, when the price doubles within a year it doesn't much > matter if it started out at $1 or at $3, it still hurts. At least gas/petrol is still less expensive than bottled water. Bottled water is at least $8 per gallon if you buy it in 16 oz bottles. When you think about it, it is amazing how cheap gas/petrol is. It must be found, wells drilled, crude oil pumped, transported thousands of miles, refined, and delivered to the pumps. For the bottled water they can just put a filter on a city water spigot. SignatureCheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA, USA Owned '67,'68,'71,'74,'79,'81,'87,'93,'95 & '01 Volvos. The '67,'74,'79,'87,'95 and '01 through European Delivery. http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/volvo.html > For the bottled water they can > just put a filter on a city water spigot. A very cogent observation. Several brands are nothing further than bottled city water -- Aquafina for example, uses Houston city water as the source. Beverly SignatureMany a smale maketh a grate -- Geoffrey Chaucer The message <slrnddcvcm.1bd.bevakupf@myhome.net> from "Bev A. Kupf" <bevakupf@myhome.net> contains these words: > A very cogent observation. Several brands are nothing further than > bottled city water -- Aquafina for example, uses Houston city water > as the source. What was that CocaCola bottled water that crashed so spectacularly in the UK? SignatureSkipweasel. Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood." > What was that CocaCola bottled water that crashed so spectacularly in > the UK? Dasani The message <Xns9693A96AA1651adrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170> from Adrian <toomany2cvs@gmail.com> contains these words: > > What was that CocaCola bottled water that crashed so spectacularly in > > the UK? > Dasani Ah, yes. Wonder who thought they were going to get away with flogging filtered tap-water for long. Stories like that rarely stay secret for long. SignatureSkipweasel. Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood." > The message <Xns9693A96AA1651adrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170> > from Adrian <toomany2cvs@gmail.com> contains these words: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > filtered tap-water for long. Stories like that rarely stay secret for > long. Indeed, there was a whole episode of Penn & Teller Bullshit on that topic, quite funny actually. They had a taste test of a whole variety of absurd (and expensive) bottled water, all filled from a garden hose in New York, every one of them people claimed had a unique flavor and were better than tap water, hilarious. > > The message <Xns9693A96AA1651adrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170> > > from Adrian <toomany2cvs@gmail.com> contains these words: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > every one of them people claimed had a unique flavor and were better than > tap water, hilarious. Was that the first series or the second? -- Jon > > > The message <Xns9693A96AA1651adrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170> > > > from Adrian <toomany2cvs@gmail.com> contains these words: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > -- > Jon First. I have an MPG of it, if you have an FTP site I'd be happy to upload it for you but it's combined with another episode and pushing on 200mb. >>What was that CocaCola bottled water that crashed so spectacularly in the UK? Peckham Spring? >>>What was that CocaCola bottled water that crashed so spectacularly in the > > UK? > > Peckham Spring? LOL - That was a classic episode :) Andy > >>What was that CocaCola bottled water that crashed so spectacularly in the > UK? Don't think that Dasani is the only one. Look at the labels of the others. Nothing is hidden. It is right there on the label. Tests have shown that in general New York City water is better than most all bottled waters in actual taste tests and in analysis, so spring water is not what it is cracked up to be. I will admit, that people in the UK my be better off in some areas with spring water. SignatureCheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA, USA Owned '67,'68,'71,'74,'79,'81,'87,'93,'95 & '01 Volvos. The '67,'74,'79,'87,'95 and '01 through European Delivery. http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/volvo.html > I will admit, that people in the UK my > be better off in some areas with spring water. We've got good old well water :-) Every couple of years it gets tested and we get told there are too many nasties in it (faecal cauliforms - to do with the sheep nearby I suspect), but we don't care - it tastes lovely, and nobody seems to be suffering. cheers, clive > > I will admit, that people in the UK my > > be better off in some areas with spring water. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > nasties in it (faecal cauliforms - to do with the sheep nearby I suspect), > but we don't care - it tastes lovely, and nobody seems to be suffering. You probably build up a resistance to whatever nasty stuff is in it, not sure I'd want to drink it though. >> Every couple of years it gets tested and we get told there are too many >> nasties in it (faecal cauliforms - to do with the sheep nearby I suspect), >> but we don't care - it tastes lovely, and nobody seems to be suffering. > > You probably build up a resistance to whatever nasty stuff is in it, not > sure I'd want to drink it though. There are lots of faecal coliforms in just about everything we eat (vegetables, and especially meat). The goal of the meat processing industry is to get them below an acceptable level. Some of these coliforms are actually needed to repopulate the gut, so that food is properly digested and absorbed. Beverly SignatureMany a smale maketh a grate -- Geoffrey Chaucer The message <pighash-0F110D.08165215072005@news.isp.giganews.com> from Stephen Henning <pighash@aol.com> contains these words: > I will admit, that people in the UK my > be better off in some areas with spring water. Depends on the springs. Where I grew up the water came straight out of the Noth Downs chalk. Till I was about five there wasn't any treatment, either - it just went straight into the pipes. Smashing stuff, but furred the kettle up in a few days. So hard babies cut their teeth on it. SignatureSkipweasel. Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood." > At least gas/petrol is still less expensive than bottled water. Bottled > water is at least $8 per gallon if you buy it in 16 oz bottles. When > you think about it, it is amazing how cheap gas/petrol is. It must be > found, wells drilled, crude oil pumped, transported thousands of miles, > refined, and delivered to the pumps. For the bottled water they can > just put a filter on a city water spigot. Oh yes, that's certainly true. I rarely bitch about the "high" price of gas, I don't like to pay more than I have to for anything and neither does anyone else, but it costs what it costs and it'll continue to go up. > BTW, can you explain something about US Sales Tax? I see on websites > things like "California residents add x% Sales Tax" which, presumably, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Parish If you buy something over the web, and the firm you buy from does not have a business presence in your state (assuming your state charges sales tax, I know Delaware and New Hampshire do not) you pay no sales tax. The reason you see 'state x residents add y% tax' is thats where the web sit's firm is located. If you live close to Delaware, like we do, you can go there to buy high cost items like TV's or stereos (or food every week), or you can buy stuff like washers and friges from a low(er) tax place, and have them delivered, saving a very few bucks, but in my younger days it seemed well worth it... If you are caught there are heavy fines for, say, bringing booze, beer, or the like into Pennsylvania, my state, from New Jersey or S(lol)elaware, low(er) tax states. If you buy a car in a low tax place you must pay your states sales tax in order to register the vehicle and get license plates, and usually you have to pay the tax right at the dealers. I guess if you were big into saving money you could buy a series of vehicles in Delaware and register them to some sham corporation you set up...there IS a reason that almost ALL big American firms are incorporated in the state of Delaware. You can get around some taxes, however many states have 'rationalized' tax collection practices so it's simpler, and there seems to be a slow, unstoppable momentum building to have the US Congress pass some law so that the loop hole with internet purchases is closed, I am betting this will happen before the turn of the decade. For some reason Americans seem to hate taxes, and its a sure fire way for politicos to win office--the system where there are national taxes would seem to result in less inefficency on the macro level as activity to avoid taxes is reduced--but I know you guys hate taxes too! > And VAT is 17.5% which is 2-3 times higher than your Sales Tax I > believe. Plus, a recently introduced "reciprocal agreement" means that > if we (in any EU country) buy off the 'net from US companies they have > to charge us VAT at the rate applicable in our country. We have a name > for this situation, Rip-off Britain :-( Our sales tax is typically around 8%, it varies by state though, some have none at all, though usually they make up for it by higher taxes for other things. > BTW, can you explain something about US Sales Tax? I see on websites > things like "California residents add x% Sales Tax" which, presumably, > means that if you live in another state then you don't pay the Sales > Tax. Does this mean that if you live near the border between two states > that you can drive into the next state and do all your shopping tax-free? As far as I know, it only applies to things you mail order, there's no tax on that unless the company you order from operates out of your state, so if you mail order something from a company in CA and you live there as well, you pay tax on it. If you mail order from another state you don't. If you live in a state without sales tax you are exempt from paying it in a state that does normally. > Thing is repairs are going to be expensive arent they? Volvo parts aren't cheap, neither are the dealers. Fortunately you'll not need many of the former or any of the latter... > And nobody will > want it if you try to resell it with 200k+ on it But a 2000 quid car can only lose 2000 quid > And the repairs will > soon cost as much as the car is worth. Unlikely > Anybody know the maintenance > costs of these kind of cars? Yes - I do. Wheel bearings £130, cambelt service (at independant using volvo parts) £450, ECU upgrade £550... > Whats likely to go wrong at this mileage? > The turbo wont last much longer will it? How much to replace that? depends - ISTR 400-600 quid being a realistic price for a fitted upgrade turbo... > Insurance is group 16 too. Volvo parts arent cheap are they? And volvo > dealer maintenance is out of the question the prices they charge. Group 16 is nowt. My dealer is 79 per hour plus vat - but the guy who services my car is 35... > How specialized is maintaining a volvo t5? Can any garage do it? Any garage with a decent reputation yes. Signature"it's very dangerous to fall asleep in the bath, I keep myself awake by constantly making toast" > Thing is repairs are going to be expensive arent they? The cost of properly maintaining a car has very little to do with what *you* paid for it and a lot to do with what it cost new. Maintaining and running a £1k T5 will cost *much* more than running and maintaining a £1k Corsa... ...but may well represent *much* better value. A SignatureTrade Oil in € > With respect, he is a bike copper, not a mechanic... > Don't make assumptions What kind of assumptions ? Those such as assuming a bike 'copper' knows nothing about mechanics ? SignatureLordy.UK > > > It may be slightly different for cars, but a BikePlod I know says to > > > *never* touch an ex-plod bike. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE - COSOC KOTL > BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # This has come up a few times on various motoring forums, and I think pretty much every police driver has said they wouldn't touch ex police cars with a bargepole. Yes they are well mainatined, but they are constantly thrashed. IIRC one forces' 3.2 Vectras averaged 10 -14 mpg; that shows what sort of treatment they're getting. Regularly kerbed, drunks forever chucking up in the back yada, yada... > They get utterly ragged by the drivers - OK, they may be well > maintained, but once they've reached the end of their useful life to > the force they're normally totally f.cked. > > It may be slightly different for cars, but a BikePlod I know says to > *never* touch an ex-plod bike. Plenty of guys on the T5 forums with ex-plod motors. Main problem is the dibble spec, manual / cloth / basic everything, 16" rims with toughened suspension, holes in dash and roof, no stereo etc. IIRC one of them fitted a bigger turbo, custom ECU map and nitrous and is running in the twelves. Mechanically they get everything changed that needs to be, and the engines are very much unburstable. Signature"it's very dangerous to fall asleep in the bath, I keep myself awake by constantly making toast" >> They get utterly ragged by the drivers - OK, they may be well >> maintained, but once they've reached the end of their useful life to [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Mechanically they get everything changed that needs to be, and the engines > are very much unburstable. my ex bodyguard bought an ex police 850 T5. Apart from the holes in the trim, and the seized rear off side caliper, it was a beaut. He loved it and it proved to be a useful tool for getting out of places quick. He still has it as far as I know, according to his colleagues. It was the only front wheel drive Volvo that made me think about swapping out my beloved 240, 740s. We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "Stuart Gray" <me@home> saying something like: > my ex bodyguard bought an ex police 850 T5 What? Are you on witness protection or a old rock star? SignatureDave SE6a > We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the > drugs began to take hold. I remember "Stuart Gray" <me@home> saying [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > What? Are you on witness protection or a old rock star? LOL, no, It was the job I was doing at the time, mainframe stylee. Something to do with insurance, as my employer put it. > Remember the turbo is a very special peace of kit on this car, it's where > all the power comes from, check it out carefully, they can be a grand [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Once you have driven one!, they are addictive. I've had a 1995 850 T5 estate for about 6 months, bought from ebay. It's on 140,000 miles, and is still on the original turbo and clutch. No smoke from turbo (or anywhere), only work I've done on it other than a service is to sort out the air con, which cost about £40 in parts and a re-gas. German and Swedish are great for most parts at sensible prices http://www.gsfcarparts.com/ These cars are *very* quick, and great fun, and handle well too for a big bus, but the ride is firm. Although insurance group 16-17 the insurance cost is not too bad (I'm 29 with clean licence), - cheaper that the T4 V40 my wife wants!. I can get low 30's MPG if driven carefully, but that rarely happens :-P I drove one first 6 years ago and have wanted one ever since, and won't part with it now! Alan. >>Remember the turbo is a very special peace of kit on this car, it's where >>all the power comes from, check it out carefully, they can be a grand [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Alan. I have the same problem, my father bought one last year, I have been hooked ever since.... I have never, ever driven such a wolf in sheeps clothing, some people in the T5 club have uprated the turbo and fitted modified fuel systems and downpipes to increase power to around 400bhp - It's hard to tell exactly though as most rolling roads wont measure that much power! I drove my fathers last winter and left a scooby doo for dust in sunny Blackpool, he looked kindo embarased and started looking to see if it was an unmarked car. White one's are great, everybody thinks your a coppa - I have driven one and people where moving over to let me past, lol. Andy > >>Remember the turbo is a very special peace of kit on this car, it's where > >>all the power comes from, check it out carefully, they can be a grand [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > downpipes to increase power to around 400bhp - It's hard to tell exactly > though as most rolling roads wont measure that much power! A stock bottom end won't handle much more than 300bhp- the conrods are the weak point and will bent like plasticine over that figure. Tim.. > How much is this white ex-police T5 worth 1997 Dec http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=9872&item=4561322434&rd =1&ssPageName=WDVW > with 196,000 miles on the clock? Not a lot I would say? He says he was > pleased the last auction sale fell through at 1,040 pounds because he [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > thinking correct? A non ex police red Feb 1999 T5 SE model with > 141,000 went for 2,150. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=9872&item=4561538752&rd=1 > Look at the valuation http://www.wisebuyers.co.uk/index.jsp?guide=prices&page=used_cars&no=3&make=Volv o&model=S70+%281996-99%29&mmv=19832&yearplate=1997%2FR&mileage=196 > valuation adjusted for 196,000 miles I would be *very* hesitant to buy an ex-police vehicle, I'd trust them a lot more than an ex-rental, but they're still normally very well used by the time police departments get rid of them, otherwise they'd keep them around. In news:d5%Ae.12450$Ll6.3715@trnddc06, James Sweet <jamessweet@hotmail.com> decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows <snip ex Dibble T5> > I would be *very* hesitant to buy an ex-police vehicle, I'd trust > them a lot > more than an ex-rental, but they're still normally very well used by > the > time police departments get rid of them, otherwise they'd keep them > around. Heh, ex rental cars. *Never* buy one, well, Avis cars are better maintained than any other hire fleet, but even then I'd be mega-wary. Problem with them is this; there are a *lot* of them out there, far more than most people realise. I've worked for most of the big hire companies, and quite a few of the small independant ones, and I'd not buy a car that any of them have had, bar the occasional Avis one. Avis ones are only maintained properly because the cars move from depot to depot on a regular basis, and if there's a fault it has to go on Avis's computer system. Once it's on the system as damaged, it can only be removed once the car has been fixed by a main agent, inspected by someone from Avis, reported to Avis, who will then let it back on the system for rentals. If one branch sends a car with a fault to another branch, the first branch gets all the grief for not putting it right. This costs the first branch money, so it's in the second branches interest to find as many faults as possible on every car. The other companies don't give a flying ferrets left testicle. Avis also have maximum mileage / time limits on each car which can't be overridden without permission from Avis head office. This is hard to get. From memory it was along the lines of Fords = 12000 miles / 6 months, Nissan = 9000 miles / 6 months, Saab 17500 miles / 6 months, Renault 7500 miles / 3 months, Volvo 11000 miles / 6 months. It's very, very rare any of the major hire companies will actually register the cars to themselves, they're normally registered to a lease company which can make identification difficult if you don't know what to look for. When I was a Nissan salesman out of our used car fleet of 50 cars, 40 were ex hire, 5 were "Demonstrators", a couple were "pre-registered", and there were normally a couple of trade ins. Best way to spot Avis cars is a little rectangular white sticker with a 7 digit number and a red border, there'll be one on the rear reg plate, one on the back of the interior mirror, one on the lower inside edge of the bootlid, and very often another inside the drivers door jamb. If the car has ever had any damage, there /should/ be a piece of paper or sticker either on the inside of the bootlid, or under the boot mat / carpet. *Avoid* Budget / National / Hertz cars.[1] [1] This is "in my opinion", obviously.. they're a bit litigious SignaturePete M Range Rover Vogue SE, Ford Capri (ressurection stalling) Porsche 911 3.2 (For Sale) COSOC #5 Scouse Git extraordinaire. Liverpool, Great Britain > It's very, very rare any of the major hire companies will actually > register the cars to themselves, they're normally registered to a > lease company which can make identification difficult if you don't > know what to look for. > Best way to spot Avis cars is ... > *Avoid* Budget / National / Hertz cars.[1] So how do you spot their cars? >> It's very, very rare any of the major hire companies will actually >> register the cars to themselves, they're normally registered to a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >So how do you spot their cars? They're f.cked. SignatureBen Blaney >>> *Avoid* Budget / National / Hertz cars.[1] >>So how do you spot their cars? > They're f.cked. Well, yes, but how do you differentiate them from every other f.cked car out there...? (Having said that, I followed a Ka yesterday - about 4/5 yrs old - still with a National car rental sticker in the back window...) >>>> *Avoid* Budget / National / Hertz cars.[1] > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Well, yes, but how do you differentiate them from every other f.cked car >out there...? Does it matter? You're not going to buy any of them! SignatureBen Blaney In news:m3q9d1da194oji6k0pdphsf09tqjp4q93p@4ax.com, Ben Blaney <m7@privacy.net> decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows >>> It's very, very rare any of the major hire companies will actually >>> register the cars to themselves, they're normally registered to a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > They're f.cked. *Ding!* Haven't you ever wondered just who actually buys a car and keeps it for just six months yet does 10,000 miles? There are car supermarkets full to the brim with ex-hire cars, main agency stealerships tend to be full of "SOR" cars and yet they're all sold as being "ex lease, only one driver", yet there's never any sign at all of this mystical driver anywhere on any paperwork for the car. The service history books are always vague as hell with no accompanying receipts, the alloys are always kerbed, the door cards are normally far more scuffed than you'd expect from a 6 month old lease car, and the tyres normally show a lot of wear for just 10k miles. Besides, where can you actually lease a car for six months from? SignaturePete M Range Rover Vogue SE, Ford Capri (ressurection stalling) Porsche 911 3.2 (For Sale) COSOC #5 Scouse Git extraordinaire. Liverpool, Great Britain > scuffed than you'd expect from a 6 month old lease car, and the tyres > normally show a lot of wear for just 10k miles. Lol - odd how even the most underpowered daily rental shopping trolley can leave hoooge number elevens everywhere... Signature"it's very dangerous to fall asleep in the bath, I keep myself awake by constantly making toast" In news:NZqdnYY1gMQbjUjfRVn-rA@karoo.co.uk, Tim S Kemp <news@timkemp.karoo.co.uk> decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows >> scuffed than you'd expect from a 6 month old lease car, and the tyres >> normally show a lot of wear for just 10k miles. > > Lol - odd how even the most underpowered daily rental shopping > trolley can leave hoooge number elevens everywhere... Heh, we used to do "burn out" contests in 1.0 Micras when we were bored. Either that or have Seicento Vs Ka handbrake tournaments. Amazing how many times you can get a Ka to spin if you yank the handbrake on at 50mph in a carpark. SignaturePete M Range Rover Vogue SE, Ford Capri (ressurection stalling) Porsche 911 3.2 (For Sale) COSOC #5 Scouse Git extraordinaire. Liverpool, Great Britain When I was young I went to Israel and rented a Fiat 126. 1980 I think. I had it up to 180 KMPH a lot, the army guys in Sinai were amazed how fast I got from check point to check point. In time a cop pulled me over and asked for my papers etc (driving a ford fairmont straight from the USA BTW). He said the speed limit was 100, so I told him I was just doing 90 MPH (the car had mph/kmph on the Speedo), he looked like he wanted to kill me, said Kilometers, not miles, and told me to drive 80 KMPH all the way to Tel Aviv. I did! When I returned that car it was understandably worn out! That was years ago. When I rent a car now I just want to get where I am going. I want no dealing with cops from different states (although I do admit that in France in 2000, I was driving quite fast, and after I got my wife to close the windows I got a Fiat brake (estate/S/W) with a turbo diesel to go 200KMPPH (140mph) down the side of a mountain hwy. Still he Fiat ran fine when I returned it) The percentage of people from the USA who figure hey what can they do to me might be a factor in Europe, but in the USA there are low low low speed limits everywhere, and once people get older then 22 or so parking brake moves and Rene Julian (sp?, famous French stunt driver) moves are passé. In the same vein cops in the USA, not cities, but suburbs just cruise day in day out. Sure urban cop cars take a beating, and state police/highway patrol cars which seem to be doing >110MPH on a daily basis are a different matter. In the USA many taxis are retired police cars..... Most rental cars are driven by folks who do not want trouble and just want to get where they are going. I think they would be an ok buy if I was poor again, however a hot rod police car...I would buy it if I had no other option and had the Need For Speed, but hey its your money your decision. > In news:NZqdnYY1gMQbjUjfRVn-rA@karoo.co.uk, > Tim S Kemp <news@timkemp.karoo.co.uk> decided to enlighten our sheltered [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > times you can get a Ka to spin if you yank the handbrake on at 50mph in a > carpark. > Heh, we used to do "burn out" contests in 1.0 Micras when we were > bored. Either that or have Seicento Vs Ka handbrake tournaments. > Amazing how many times you can get a Ka to spin if you yank the > handbrake on at 50mph in a carpark. <glances at dervy> Signature"it's very dangerous to fall asleep in the bath, I keep myself awake by constantly making toast" <snip> > the alloys are always kerbed, the door cards >are normally far more scuffed than you'd expect from a 6 month old lease >car, and the tyres normally show a lot of wear for just 10k miles. You forgot to mention the obligatory fag burns on the interior trim! SignatureZ In news:0umad15pg7ad12genj59ub7oa9l97lr7r9@4ax.com, Zathras <webnewsgroup@nospamthanks.hotmail.com> decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows > <snip> >> the alloys are always kerbed, the door cards [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > You forgot to mention the obligatory fag burns on the interior trim! Heh, £150 a burn.. made some money out of those.. SignaturePete M Range Rover Vogue SE, Ford Capri (ressurection stalling) Porsche 911 3.2 (For Sale) COSOC #5 Scouse Git extraordinaire. Liverpool, Great Britain > In news:0umad15pg7ad12genj59ub7oa9l97lr7r9@4ax.com, > Zathras <webnewsgroup@nospamthanks.hotmail.com> decided to enlighten our [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Heh, £150 a burn.. made some money out of those.. I rented a car in Los Angeles once that had them on the *ceiling*! > Heh, ex rental cars. > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > [1] This is "in my opinion", obviously.. they're a bit litigious The thing that would worry me is not the maintenance, but knowing that people beat the crap out of rental cars, and the chances of one having been properly broken in are slim to none. That can cause a lot of problems down the road. |
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