Car Forum / Volvo Cars / July 2005
Confusing & contradictory volvo 240 brake pad opinions.....
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wirry1423 - 27 Jul 2005 01:09 GMT Hello everyone. I have a 1986 Volvo automatic 240 DL sedan with aroun 190,000 miles on it. About 3 weeks ago I took the car to my sho because it was leaking brake fluid and the pedal was getting softer an softer. They found a broken brake line as the cause and successfull repaired it. They did not mention any other braking issues. Now toda while I was driving on the expressway, I hit a small piece of meta debris at 65 mph with my right rear tire causing an immediate an severe blowout. (luckily I kept good control and no crash or othe damage occured, but i was unable to locate and inspect the piece o debris i struck, as the tire explosion probably sent the debris flyin into the grass.) When the government tow truck showed up (The state o Illinois has a free motorist assist program for cars on the expresswa in Chicago with minor problems. The program is free and the drivers ar employed directly by the state, therefore they have absolutely no reaso to lie about needed repairs.) and he took the bad tire off (after som major difficulty with a rusted log nut) to put the spare on, he becam very suprised and said that my brake pads were horribly worn. When asked him if he had ever seen worse, he said yes, but not many. Now have no knowledge of how the volvo brake pads normally look, so I too his word for it and promised to have the pads inspected. He als remarked that the rotar appeared very worn ("like a CD"?) and neede replacement, and he even said the calipers were in poor shape. He als said I could slam on the brakes one day and the caliper would brake of and I could have an accident. I tried to tell him repeatedly that just had a brake repair and that the shop said nothing. I also tol him that since the repair, i have noticed no braking problem whatsoever, but he didn't seem to believe me. He really scared me, s after he changed the tire, I took the car to a Different repair shop to get the destroyed tire replaced, and while there I also asked the to specifically look at the braking system of that tire, esp the brak pads. After they finished, to my suprise, they told me the brake pad and other braking components on the entire car look to be OK and do no need to be replaced right now. Additionally, while the screw spindle and the part where the tire sits are somewhat rusty looking, I hav always had brake work done as needed and have not noticed any problem (ie squeeky or spongy) other then the brake line repair. [maintenanc within the prior four years (time since i acquired the car) include new master cylinder, new pads, new calipers, ground rotars, all ne brake lines, and other misc brake items] My questions are who do yo think is right? Could the government tow driver simply be unfamilia with the appearance of older volvo brake pads and other parts, an mistaken that for worn parts? In other words, does the older 240 tak a smaller or otherwise different looking brake pad then typica domestic cars?? Or could both shops be wrong and the tow drive correct? What would you do in this case? Thank you for any help o insight
-- wirry142
Michael Pardee - 27 Jul 2005 02:55 GMT > Hello everyone. I have a 1986 Volvo automatic 240 DL sedan with around > 190,000 miles on it. About 3 weeks ago I took the car to my shop [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > correct? What would you do in this case? Thank you for any help or > insight. My guess is the road assistance driver was mistaken - but the stakes are high. It's worth a third opinion - most brake shops will do free inspections on the chance of getting any needed repairs done in their shop.
I am concerned by the rusted lug nut. That shouldn't be happening if the wheel was off recently.
Mike
wirry1423 - 27 Jul 2005 04:56 GMT There are four lug nuts. All of them have a pretty high degree of rus on them, as they are likely the original lug nuts. However, three o the four came off easily. It was only the fourth that required a larg effort to remove. It is possible that the fourth nut was simpl overtightened. I understand your point though. I am thinking that i the pads were as severely worn as he stated, would not the brakin power have some noticeable decline? As for the original questions, i anyone is familiar with the brakes on the 240 specifically-- --"Could the government tow driver simply be unfamiliar with th appearance of older volvo brake pads and other parts, and mistaken tha for worn parts? In other words, does the older 240 take a smaller o otherwise different looking brake pad then typical domestic cars?? O could both shops be wrong and the tow driver correct? What would you d in this case? Thank you for any help or insight."
-- wirry142
Randy G. - 27 Jul 2005 05:38 GMT >There are four lug nuts. All of them have a pretty high degree of rust >on them, as they are likely the original lug nuts. However, three of [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >could both shops be wrong and the tow driver correct? What would you do >in this case? Thank you for any help or insight."- I would assume tha tthe bkare shop gave you paperwork stating that they ahd done the inspection and certified that all was OK. Their reputation and status as an open shop depends on your safety when they certify such as being true. The tow truck driver has nothing riding on his statements. That alone would ease my worries.
For the most aprt, if the pads are evenly worn and all things are working correctly, disc brakes work quite well right up until the time tha tthe friction material falls off the backing plate- I know from experience. Some manufacturers place a metal wear indicator that rubs and makes noise against a non-braking part of the disc if the pads wear too far (not Volvo from what I have seen). That's why it is important to get the brakes inspected regularly.
__ __ Randy & \ \/ /alerie's \__/olvos '90 240 Estate - '93 960 Estate
Alex Zepeda - 27 Jul 2005 07:53 GMT > There are four lug nuts. There should be five.
> I am thinking that if the pads were as severely worn as he stated, would > not the braking power have some noticeable decline? Probably not. You should notice more noise (more of a grinding noise than a squeak) and more pedal travel required to stop the car tho.
> In other words, does the older 240 take a smaller or > otherwise different looking brake pad then typical domestic cars?? Or > could both shops be wrong and the tow driver correct? What would you do > in this case? Thank you for any help or insight."- I think you should look for yourself. Disc brakes are pretty straight forward. The rotor itself you should check with a caliper, but if you see/feel a lip at the edge, it's worn too far. You can eye the pads quite easily with the wheel off. I think Volvo specifies a minimum amount of pad material of about 2-3mm.
If you don't know what to look for, buy a copy of the Haynes or Bentley manual for the 240s. They should both have good pictures.
 Signature alex
athol - 27 Jul 2005 07:58 GMT > There are four lug nuts. So you've lost one?
The 2-series including 240 all have 5-stud wheels, and there should be wheel nuts on all 5 studs.
 Signature Athol <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000 The state of infrastructure in New South Wales is a disgrace. I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.
Pat Quadlander - 28 Jul 2005 01:10 GMT Owned and maintained (including brake pad replacements) '78 245, '84 240, and '91 240. The number 240, translated from Swedish, means "doesn't change much". Disc brakes on the 240 series are very straight forward. Nothing complicated or unusual. As others have pointed out, the government tow truck driver's opinion should not be accepted without some additional confirmation. Find a qualified trustworthy brake mechanic or shop to end your worries.
> There are four lug nuts. All of them have a pretty high degree of rust > on them, as they are likely the original lug nuts. However, three of [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > could both shops be wrong and the tow driver correct? What would you do > in this case? Thank you for any help or insight."- wirry1423 - 28 Jul 2005 04:30 GMT First, yes I do indeed have five lug nuts and none are missing, I simpl wrote the wrong number. I took the car to a third shop that specialize in brakes and mufflers. They put the car on the lift and removed al four tires. They told me that the front brake pads are pretty worn an have about three months of safe operation left. They said the rear pad are still ok on both sides (including the tire the tow driver complaine about). They also said that the rotars and calipers are still good o three tires (again, including the one the tow driver was worrie about). However, they did say that the rotar and caliper neede replacement within the next two months, to be on the safe side, on th rear driver's side wheel (they said that that rotar was too thin t ground down any further). They quoted me an approximate total price fo the rotar and caliper replacement on that wheel of $170. So I a relieved to finally know what is wrong and what is not wrong with m braking system. Also while I was there, they found that the muffle was dangling as both brakets were broken (due to backing into curbs o several occasions and low driveways), and it was causing stress on th entire exhaust system. They bolted it back up to the frame securel and did not charge for the repair (however it ended up being secured bit snugly, as it is now rattling slightly against the frame mainly i parking gear). They also rotated and balanced my tires at no charge The only other item they mention was that the three older tires (no including the replaced tire) should be replaced soon because they had constant area of very small surface cracks circularly around the lengt of the tire between the sidewall and the tread (an area about an inc and a half in width). So my question now is do I really need new tire because of the small cracks, even though the tread is still very dee on all tires and none of the tires are loosing air? Or are my tire still in good shape? (the shop also sells tires) Thank you for all th replies
-- wirry142
Randy G. - 28 Jul 2005 06:18 GMT They sound like a reputable shop and their statements seem reasonable. As far as the tire cracks, It would be hard for us to say without seeing the tires. One way to check would be to let some air out (like down to about 10 or 15 psi) and look into the cracks with a strong light. If you can see cords (fabric threads) then they might be right.
>First, yes I do indeed have five lug nuts and none are missing, I simply >wrote the wrong number. I took the car to a third shop that specializes [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >still in good shape? (the shop also sells tires) Thank you for all the >replies. __ __ Randy & \ \/ /alerie's \__/olvos '90 240 Estate - '93 960 Estate "Shelby" & "Kate"
wirry1423 - 28 Jul 2005 23:16 GMT Regarding the muffler. The shop was able to bolt the muffler back int into position, but only after really applying some heavy duty pressur (good old fashioned elbow grease) with the car on the lift. Now as am driving, the car seems to not move forward as much, ie. when i drive gear, after taking the foot off the brake, but not on the gas the car does not seem to be coasting [idleing] itself as fast, and th pickup does not seem to be quite as fast, while the deceleration is bit faster when I coast down from speed. However the change is small and I cannot be 100% sure it is not just my mind playing tricks. Bu my question is - could they have bolted the muffler so snugly that i is rubbing or touching against the rear drive axel, causing tractio against the momentum of the vehicle? Or is the axel out of the way o the muffler to the point that this would not be possible (ie are the seperated by a bar or frame component)? I don't really notice an rattling except a little when in park. Also the car is not making an rubbing or grinding sounds, and the car is not drifting in an direction [ie it holds a straight line perfectly]. How fast [mph should the car (1986 volvo 240 sedan) normally move while in drive an idling (coasting)? Any other thoughts
-- wirry142
Michael Pardee - 28 Jul 2005 23:58 GMT > Regarding the muffler. The shop was able to bolt the muffler back into > into position, but only after really applying some heavy duty pressure [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > should the car (1986 volvo 240 sedan) normally move while in drive and > idling (coasting)? Any other thoughts? I'm not sure about contacting the axle, but I had the exhaust pipe in our 765 lay over against the body where it goes over the rear axle. The rumbling noise from the engine vibration was very loud.
Mike
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